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CSBG Archive

Comic Book Urban Legends Revealed #164

This is the one-hundred and sixty-fourth in a series of examinations of comic book urban legends and whether they are true or false. Click here for an archive of the previous one-hundred and sixty-three. Click here for a similar archive, only arranged by subject.

Let’s begin!

COMIC URBAN LEGEND: A female character’s genitalia was exposed in an issue of Action Comics.

STATUS: False

It’s amazing the odd things you find yourself looking for when you do a column like this – for more than a few months now, I’ve been searching for an old 1970s issue of Action Comics to see if there’s a picture of a woman’s genitalia inside the comic!

Awhile back, when we were discussing the legend of whether John Byrne surreptitiously drew a penis in an issue of Fantastic Four, reader Jukka Laine wrote:

In Action Comics # 432, the Human Target story: The secretary Deedee is tied up, and her vagina is visible.

Just recently, I was finally able to get the issue in question, and I have to say that I do not believe it.

Here is the panel in question, from the story by Len Wein and artwork by Dick Giordano, where the secretary Deedee is tied up in her negligee (click to enlarge):

I just don’t see anything untoward about that panel, unless you just wish to note that it is a bit cheezy that she’s in her negligee for the panel.

Otherwise, her vagina is not visible in that picture.

You could make some sort of case for saying that the shadows are showing perhaps an imprint of the basic shape of her Mons Veneris (I wouldn’t buy it, but you could at least make a case), but that’s not nearly the same thing as “her vagina is visible.”

So I’m going with false on this one.

Thanks to Jukka for the suggestion!

COMIC URBAN LEGEND: Longshot was going to have a follow-up mini-series by Ann Nocenti and Art Adams.

STATUS: True

Reader Morgan Berry asked me about this one awhile back, and it was amazing how much research he put into it! He found quite a few references to the series, and he was mostly curious what the deal was with the series – why was it canceled? Was it ever produced at all?

All fine questions.

Sadly (well, maybe not sadly – SORTA sadly), the answer to the question is a fairly mundane one.

Longshot was a Marvel mini-series from the mid-80s that launched the comic careers of both writer Ann Nocenti (she had worked in editorial, but this was her big break, writing-wise) and Art Adams, who was not even 20 years old when he drew Longshot!!

While a critical success and having a cult following (and certainly making Adams one of the most popular artists at Marvel), Longshot was not a huge commercial success. In fact, the original mini-series was intended to be an ongoing, but was changed to a mini-series after the series began!

While sales was a major factor, the slowness of Art Adams was a factor, as well. He has always been a very deliberate artist, and takes a long time to finish his work. The six issues of Longshot took, I believe, about two years to draw.

After the original mini-series ended, Nocenti and Adams were going to re-unite for a follow-up to the first mini-series.

However, and here is where the answer is a bit mundane, other stuff just got in the way – mainly that Adams was so popular that Marvel wanted him to do more work. And because he was so deliberate, Marvel preferred that he spend his time on more high-profile work rather than Longshot, so by the time he finished these other projects (mostly X-Men Annuals with Chris Claremont) far too much time had passed, and the project was dead. It was not like Nocenti was waiting for Longshot, either – she had moved on, as well, with both comic book work (a long run on Daredevil) and writing work outside of comics.

So I’m sorry, Morgan, all that time and the answer is pretty boring!

Thanks to Morgan for the question and thanks to the latest issue of Back Issue magazine (#29, which features X-Men related characters heavily, and has a great interview with Nocenti and Adams by Roger Ash. It was in Ash’s interview that I finally got some clear-cut confirmation from either Nocenti or Adams as to the fate of their Longshot follow-up.

COMIC URBAN LEGEND: To make a point, Peter David once wrote a Star Trek comic under the pseudonym “David Banner.”

STATUS: Basically True

Awhile back, I did an installment of Comic Book Urban Legends Revealed that had to do with the difficulties that Peter David had on the Star Trek comic book, and amusingly enough, like strangers in the night, reader Matthew McLean asked me about a story he had heard at just around the same time that Peter David himself was in the comments section telling that very story!

Matt asked:

I heard that paramount was very involved in the comic and had final approval on all stories. So the rumor I heard was that peter submitted a story, and it was rejected. Peter was also the writer of hulk at the time so peter took the same story, and submitted as “David Banner.” And the story was approved. Someone at Paramount did not like Peter David. So any truth to that?

Peter wrote:

The fact is that Richard Arnold’s notes became increasingly ludicrous, such as shutting down a romantic interest for Kirk by asserting that Kirk was no longer interested in women. We were reaching the point where it was becoming impossible to get stories approved. Richard rejected one story with the assertion that there was “too much violence,” even though the violence consisted of a sustained fist fight scene with Kirk (as if they never had those in Trek). As a test, I submitted a script under a fake name which sailed through the approvals process even though it had far more violence than the previous script which was rejected for that reason. When that was approved, I knew that it had nothing to do with the stories and everything to do with Richard’s enmity toward me (a far longer story to go into.) At which point I resigned from the book since I felt I could no longer do the job I was hired to do, namely provide stories for DC.

Final kicker: The fake name under which I submitted the story that was approved? “Robert Bruce Banner.”

Note that the story Matt heard was SLIGHTLY different (David Banner instead of Robert Bruce Banner), but it is close enough to say that it is true.

Thanks to Matt for the question and thanks, of course, to Peter David for giving us all the great information!

Okay, that’s it for this week!

Thanks to the Grand Comic Book Database for this week’s covers!

Feel free (heck, I implore you!) to write in with your suggestions for future installments! My e-mail address is cronb01@aol.com.

See you next week!

88 Comments

That’s insane about the Star Trek comics. Wouldn’t it be Richard Arnold’s job to ensure Star Trek’s success instead of carrying out a personal vendetta against PAD? Unless Peter slept with his wife and killed his dog. Then I could see how business sense would be forgotten.

Actually i think PAD slept with the dog and killed the wife, but that may be a legend for a future installment…=D

I heard a rumor that Peter David once slept with Richard Arnold’s wife and killed his dog, is this true? You should totally look into that for a CBULR!

No one can draw Longshot like Art Adams draws him.

But Longshot has hollow bones, so how did he managed to survive a back-handed punch from Shulkie?

Sadly, the real story is even stupider than that. As Peter David tells it, Richard Arnold’s enmity toward him started when Arnold told PAD that Gold Key Star Trek comics were the ideal Trek comics & something to aspire to, and PAD laughed in his face.

So, not great start for a working relationship there.

You stated about the Longshot mini-series:

“In fact, the original mini-series was intended to be an ongoing, but was changed to a mini-series after the series began!”

BUt when I look at the cover of Longshot #1, it says “#1 in a Six-Issue Limited Series”

It looks like to me that the series was always intended as a mini-series. Do you maybe mean that when the series was first pitched to Marvel, it was intended as a ongoing, but was changed to a mini-series before publication?

Yeah, it was changed to a mini-series after they began working on it.

When Longshot was created, was he supposed to join the X-men later?

“But Longshot has hollow bones, so how did he managed to survive a back-handed punch from Shulkie?”

He ‘rolled with the punch’, an old Batman trick.

I feel bad for whatever guys are feverishly poring over old comic books for hints of nudity.

Oh, I can’t imagine that Longshot was ever intended for the X-Men — he was such an awkward fit with the team. When he and Dazzler joined up it reeked of trying to get some use out of cool characters that had lost their place in the world.

I don’t know, it looks like labia in that panel to me, covered by the undergarments of course but the shape is obvious.

I think you could make the argument that SOME shape is showing in the undergarments, but

A. I think it is more just shadows and the fold of the undergarment

and

B. It sure isn’t “her vagina is visible.”

I would say the shape is quite definite looking at the linework.

I agree on B though, and I was not challenging your decision to declare it False. If anything, you might say we’re seeing labia the way we usually see breasts in comics.

Okay, what is more pathetic, poring over the comics looking for the image or the discussion we’re having?

Okay, you’ve finally managed to drag me into this silliness. As someone who spent years working with Dick Giordano in various capacities and who wrote the story in question, I can absolutely assure you that what you’re looking at are fabric folds in her panties, nothing else. Dick is as upstanding and gentlemanly as anyone I’ve ever known, and he draws women far too well to ever need to play childish smirking games of “Look what I snuck in”. Prurience is in the eye of the beholder, people. As Shatner once so wisely said, “For God’s sake, get a life.” :-)

Genially Yours–

Len Wein

After Roddenberry died, Arnold became a real SOB. He fired Susan Sackett, f-ed up the comics and novels nad basically tried taking over the franchise, shaping it in his own image.

Thanks for commenting Mr. Wien, I’m a longtime fan of yours and Mr. Giordano’s work.

Yeah, that’s probably what my poor wife will say this evening when I ask her opinion. :)

I think the only (small) article regarding the proposed Longshot ongoing that I can recall was the one with Nocenti back in an old Marvel Age Annual – #2, I think – the one with the gorgeous X characters cover by, hey! Art Adams.

I remember looking forward to this.

I guess I can stop now.

The Mad Monkey

July 18, 2008 at 9:46 am

While I have always had nothing but the greatest respect for Mr. Giordano’s artwork, it wouldn’t be the first time he’s drawn something with “adult content”. I recall an issue (or 2) of Star*Reach Classics that had a story with his artwork. I can’t remember which issues, sadly…but, I clearly recall being surprised that it was him. Also, his work on Wonder Woman (just after Sekowsky) had quite a bit of cheesecake in it. So, with this Human Target thing, I wouldn’t be surprised if he did intentionally draw a “camel-toe”.
However, I do agree with Mr. Wein’s comment that it’s just a fold in the underwear and nothing more. Julius Schwartz was the editor, with E. Nelson Bridwell as his assistant on that issue (thank you, GCD). You know just by seeing those two names that anything they considered to be inappropriate would not have made it to the comic rack.

Yeah, the vagina thing is a reeeeeal stretch.

But it would be funny if it were the case, considering that “freaking” was apparently too racy a euphemism in this panel and had to be replaced by the even more nonsensical “creaking.” Holy spit, that’s Luke Cage-worthy fake cussin’, that is.

Smallville91505

July 18, 2008 at 10:33 am

A topless Black Canary blocked by a caption in World’s Finest #253 is more provocative than that Human Target panel.

We got this far down tha page before the phrase “camel-toe” was mentioned. I’m not sure if that’s good news or bad…

Considering that most comic characters are basically nude people with costumes painted on, getting all hot and bothered over some lace panties is just missing the point.

Let’s not forget that Dick Giordano did some mad hot stuff in the Modesty Blaise comic a few years later, stuff that made a little pair of panties seem tame.

I think Paramount’s worst move with what they allowed in DC’s Star Trek comics was to let them depict so many events betrween the movies covered by that license. Films 2 & 3, 3 & 4, and 4 & 5 have precious little time passing between them (from the characters’ perspective), so DC had to effectively undo ever general development they had come up with and put the characters in a situation almost exactly as the one they had been in two years earlier to be able to adapt the new movie. In fact, DC’s first post-“Star Trek 3: The Search for Spock” issue pretty much duplicated the opening and closing reels of “ST4: The Voyage Home,” with the Enterprise crew leaving Vulcan and going back to Earth in their captured Klingon ship (jump through most of the picture), turn themselves in, get demoted and made the senior officers of a new starship, although DC made it a new supership introduced in “ST3,” rather than a new Enterprise, as in the film. Then they had to get everybody back on Vulcan with a Klingon ship and Spock’s mental state somewhat limited in order to do “ST4.” Paramount just shouldn’t have allowed this situation to happen, certainly not repeatedly.

yeah you could stretch it as far as saying that you can see a “camel-toe” but to me it’s obvious that it’s just a random line.

I took one look at that Dick Giordano panel and absolutely didn’t see anything resembling a vagina (sadly, that’s not the weirdest phrase I’ve ever uttered)…

Re: PAD & Star Trek–one thing I’ve learned over the years in my career is that people oftimes make decisions not because they believe it’s the right thing, but rather because they can and want everyone to know that they can. While I wasn’t involve, hearing Peter David’s stories about his problems with Richard Arnold reminds me too often of other bosses I’ve had to deal with over the years.

Oh, and if your’e reading this, Peter–I saw you as Marryin’ Sam in “Li’l Abner” at Theater Three in Port Jeff some years ago. Great job! Doing any other community theater work these days?

Re: Longshot being backhanded… his mutant power is improbable luck. He was lucky she didn’t break his hollow bones, sending him sailing like that.

Such sad news about Longshot. I love that character, especially in that first series (which I was wish was printed on nice, glossy paper, it’s sadly not as pretty to look at as it used to be). Maybe someday someone else will do something worthwhile with the character… Also, I miss Art Adams’ work (which is probably why, in turn, I’m such a fan of Chris Bachalo).

Who has folds in their underwear like that. I think it’s pretty clear to me exactly what we are all looking at here:)

Doublewide says: “After Roddenberry died, Arnold became a real SOB. He fired Susan Sackett, f-ed up the comics and novels nad basically tried taking over the franchise, shaping it in his own image.”

While the spirit of this comment is accurate (Arnold was nothing if not full of crap), the facts are incorrect. Richard Arnold ‘s attempted shaping of the Star Trek world to suit his own warped ideas of what it should be all occurred while Roddenberry was still alive; Arnold worked in Roddenberry’s office and was able to use Gene’s name to enforce his strictures (like the ones Peter David mentioned in the article). He imposed such restrictions of the paperback books and comics that many fans gave up in disgust, and it was a testament to Trek comic book editor Bob Greenberger that the book remained as creative and enjoyable as it did.

As for Arnold’s actions after Roddenberry’s death, they mainly involved getting fired almost immediately after Roddenberry died and being escorted off the Paramount lot. He occasionally makes appearances at various conventions (I think the idiots at Creation still hire him, which isn’t surprising), but he’s basically become the impotent joke he always deserved to be. What goes around does at least occasionally come around.

That is not an exposed vagina, but it does seem like some serious (although unintentional probably) cameltoe.

Given that every other set of lines in the panel seems to have definition and purpose, I would guess that that’s an editor’s inking– an attempt to diminish attention to the area in question, and botching the job in an ironically prurient fashion.

Problem with this scenario: I can’t imagine Julie Schwartz doing this.

I am sooo glad I could contribute to this discussion.

there’s a great bit in PAD’s most recent TNG novel where Geordi tells Seven of Nine – the former Borg – that after the Enterprise met the Borg, there were so-called experts who claimed there were no female Borg. Seven calls it ludicrous and Geordi says ‘go argue with self-declared experts’ which is a jab at Arnold after Arnold made such a claim when Peter was writing his TNG novel “Vendetta” which featured a female drone being de-assimilated years before Seven appeared…

There’s a big impact “star” there, thus I’m not sure he rolled with the punch. Also note that he’s reeling and … airborne.

And if he was really lucky, he probably wouldn’t have gotten it at all.

Len Wein says get a life, and people still argue camel toe? Take that, Len Wein, creator of Wolverine and longtime writer and editor!

I agree with Len, I think it was pretty weak sauce for the lead urban legend.

“You know, Deedee, ladies stand with their legs together when bound to an oil derrick.”

Anyone who thinks that’s female genitalia is betraying the limits of their experience, if ya know what I mean.

Time to get dressed and go outside, methinks. Or at least get out of the folks’ basement.

I heard that Longshot one years ago, I pretty must assume that it was dead in the water after all these years. Art Adams is a guy I don’t mind waiting a year for the next X-Men annual. Those were great, I looked forward to them. I want to meet Art Adams and joking ask him about when is the Longshot series finally coming out at a convention or something. I though it would be a good joke. I’ve only got the first two issues of Longshot, but will have to get the rest sometime.

How many artists can you honestly say you’ll wait a long time for. I’ll wait for Jim Lee and All Start Batman and Robin (not a big Batman reader), but I’ll never by the J Scott. Campbell whatever Spider-man project (the last time I read Spider-man it had become the worst comic I had ever read). Which has less to do with Campbell, but more to do with Marvel doesn’t seem to know what THEY are doing anymore.

Andrew Collins

July 18, 2008 at 4:14 pm

That Star Trek cover reminds me- whatever happened to Jerome Moore? He was an amazing artists whose work I haven’t seen in ages…

Mammalian Verisimilitude

July 18, 2008 at 4:21 pm

There’s no female genitalia in that panel. But Gateway’s tackle is clearly on view in X-Men #50 (the Onslaught lead-in issue, not the 60s series).

…Two points – and one you should bookmark for future reference, Brian:

1) When discussing Ann’s run on Daredevil, you left out the word “boringly” from in front of “long”. I used to think it was Romita Jr’s art that made that run totally unreadable, but after having the misfortune of Ann’s worthless Kid Eternity debacle, I’ve since absolved JRJr of all sins for that one. Save for making Mephisto look like some kind of plush dog made out of yarn, but that’s another story…

2) Here’s the one you *should* bookmark, tho: Any time Richard “Melakon” Arnold is mentioned on any forum, whether it be here, there or usenet, his abuse of the Trek licensing franchises – and especially of Peter David – will always follow. Not that it should be ignored, as the damage Arnold caused while claiming to be doing Gene Roddenberry’s bidding – which Majel has since confirmed was 110% bullshit – took years has been argued to have helped push the franchise as a whole towards the edge of the abyss that Berman and Braga eventually pushed it off into. So file the story away for ease of access, because long after he’s worm food, the name of Richard Arnold deserves to be remembered if only in revulsion and disgrace.

And yes, even with just the one good leg I have left, I’d still find a way to kick him in the balls :-P

“There’s no female genitalia in that panel…”

…No, but you *can* tell that she’s made it impossible to tell whether the curtains match the drapes :-) :-)

“We got this far down tha page before the phrase “camel-toe” was mentioned. I’m not sure if that’s good news or bad…”

…You know, we could start using this panel as a “Rorshach Test” for comic book readers. If you can see female genitalia, then you’re obviously a Comic Book Guy who’s been living in your parents’ basement far too long. However, if you *do* see genitalia, but notice that they’re oriented 90deg to either side of normal, then either you’re in on the joke, or Dick Giodano had never seen a woman totally nekkid before drawing that panel :-)

“Prurience is in the eye of the beholder, people…”

…Ah-HA! Now we know the name of the model Dick was using back in those days! Dare I ask how she’s held up under the years? :-)

Buttler said:

“Oh, I can’t imagine that Longshot was ever intended for the X-Men — he was such an awkward fit with the team. When he and Dazzler joined up it reeked of trying to get some use out of cool characters that had lost their place in the world.”

But if Claremont wasn’t allowed to do that, where would he get half his ideas from? :)

Well, just to give equal time, I recall once how shocked I was upon seeing the glans of Mister Terrific’s penis in an early issue of JSA. It was featured quite prominently, too… Unfortunately, I don’t remember which issue.

But it could have been a ‘fold’ in his spandex uniform.

And I really like Sadowski’s art, so please don’t hold it against him….

because I made the whole thing up. And I don’t feel sorry for anyone who went back to their JSA collection looking for it.

I can’t believe we’re all talking about. some innocuous line of artwork in a comic book that one person saw as representing female genitalia.. Big whoop-de-doo. Not sure that even qualified as an urban legend,. Let’s move on.

I think what Mr. Wein was referring to was the fact that the Superman comics weren’t specifically designed around a more mature audience. Modesty Blaise and Star*Reach (especially Star*Reach) most certainly were designed with a more mature audience in mind. I don’t think Mr. Giordano would have a desire to cheapen an all-ages book with a surreptitious vagina (it looked like a fold in her garment to me, though the crotch-shot perspective PROBABLY didn’t help the case, even if it was to get the guy at the top of the tower in the shot). That’s all IMO, in any case.

The funny thing is, this is at least the third time this year that the “urban legend” has been about whether you totally saw a penis or a nipple or something in a mainstream comic book. For once, though, it doesn’t involve John Byrne — at least not as far as we know.

tk, Longshot is set to appear in X-factor, written by…PAD.

OM, different strokes. I loved the Nocenti/JRJ Daredevil…

“But if Claremont wasn’t allowed to do that, where would he get half his ideas from?”

Not to mention Bendis, and Geoff Johns…;)

You beat me to that – Longshot appearing in X-Factor, which I am really looking forward to.
I also enjoyed Ann and JRJR run on Daredevil. Everybody really does have their own tastes in things.

Just for the record, anyone interested in reading more about the Longshot mini-series and its history, both Ann Nocenti and Arthur Adams are interviewed in the newest issue of “Back Issue” magazine (#29) as part of its “Mutants” theme.

Shameless Fanboy

July 19, 2008 at 3:57 am

Yeah, I heard the old story about Richard Arnold. Those were kind of the “dark times” for comics and books, because writers were pretty limited to what they could and could not do under the Arnold regime. After Roddenberry died and Arnold was fired, there was considerably more freedom to expand the Star Trek Universe beyond what was just seen onscreen…

And the whole “vagina scene” in Action Comics #432–to me, that’s another case of naughty people with naughty minds working for public decency.
;)

Naughty minds? I guess the editor of Nordic “Superman” comics did it. It’s clearly there in Finnish Lepakkomies (Batman) # 5 of 1978.

Heres a bizarre urban legend for you Brian – Stan Lee wears a wig

Ive heard the story I think for the first time in the special Comics Journal issue focusing on Lee, where they said that after Marvel’s college campus’ success began in the early 60s, Lee enwigged himself and started to dress all funkified. I think photos of a bald Lee in the 50s/early 1960s exist (the Spurgeon biography I think reprints some) . Maybe a bit too ” personal lives” for you but there you go.

Is Richard Arnold alos responisble for the “No Aliens on the Enterprise Bridge” thing that led to Diana Duane walking away from Trek novels for a while ?

Trevor "Saint Nightwalker" Valle

July 19, 2008 at 9:08 am

“What about the vagina?

On the Camel-Toe Panel:
If you follow the line of her leg to the top you can see that this is the fold of her leg meeting her torso but it is soften from a hard line to show that you are just making it out because you see it through her panties.

Is Richard Arnold alos responisble for the “No Aliens on the Enterprise Bridge” thing that led to Diana Duane walking away from Trek novels for a while ?

Wait…what? How does that work? Has Arnold (or whoever was responsible for that rule) actually SEEN any Star Trek? Spock? Worf? Going off-canon a bit, but M’Ress and Arex? All banished from the bridge?

re: vagina shot – very unlikely the common printing looked exactly as above, but there is a chance there was an error on a small number of copies where the colours were shifted and some made it onto the panty area, beginning the legend.

Richard Arnold was the worst thing to happen to Star Trek literature, and a great many excellent writers were alienated from the franchise during his tenure. He showed, by his absurd dictates and comments (such as the Gold Key statements to PAD and his “no aliens on the bridge” rule) that he had NO understanding of Star Trek whatsoever. The damage he did to DC’s Trek comic was huge, and if he’s reading this, I hope he responds to what is being said about him here. Back in the ’80s and ’90s, I voraciously read every issue DC–still the best publisher of Star Trek comics, even after all these years–put out, and once Arnold’s interference began, the quality of the series really suffered as a result: characters being written out unceremoniously, changes in writer, inconsistencies galore, and arbitrary restrictions that made no sense whatsoever. Richard Arnold has no place in the Trek franchise, and with any luck, no one will ever let him anywhere NEAR it again. He’s the Rob Leifeld of Star Trek (anyone who’s ever seen Leifeld’s nightmarishly bad Battlestar Galactica work for Maximum Press will understand that comment).

i’m confused

“In fact, the original mini-series was intended to be an ongoing, but was changed to a mini-series after the series began!”

then how come the cover to the 1st issue (which you post here) clearly states it’s a 6-issue limited series?

Captain Americas the one who “Rolles with a punch”.

What are your sources for Longshot? Because I remember clearly an Ann Nocenti interview from Comics Scene while she was writer on Daredevil and she said she was still planning to do it. Marvel Age Mag hinted at the series happening even in the the 90s. I’d scan stuff if I weren’t lazy or if your sources are vague.

That’s right, even in the the 90s. I’m sure of it.

I think we should all be thankful its Brian Cronin who does this column abd not Frederic Wertham otherwise that Action Comics cover would have been exhibit #1 regardless :)

Oops I ment panel not cover

“The funny thing is, this is at least the third time this year that the “urban legend” has been about whether you totally saw a penis or a nipple or something in a mainstream comic book. For once, though, it doesn’t involve John Byrne — at least not as far as we know.”

well, OM did respond, and some people at ‘ama implied the he was Byrne..

:D

any way, hooray for vagina, camel toe and folds in yer underwear!

Longshot looks exactly like Tom Petty on the cover of the first Heartbreakers album.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/07/TomPettyDebutCover.jpg

Any connection there?

You look at Rob Liefeld’s earlier stuff you can see that same Longshot pose on Longshot #1. I’m not knocking him, Art Adams is the guy you want to rip of… be influenced by. Do what works.

“well, OM did respond, and some people at ‘ama implied the he was Byrne..”

…HAW! Now *that’s* a new one! For the record, I’m *not* John Byrne. I am an asshole, where Byrne is just a jerk :-P

…For those who weren’t born…er..around when “Melakon” was destroying the Trek literary franchise, here’s a few links to help catch everyone up on all the dirt on the dirtbag. We’ll start off with one recent example of how he still puts the “dip” in “dipshit” where it comes to what he thinks is Trek “Canon”:

http://trekmovie.com/2006/10/23/arnold-defends-roddenberrys-universe-says-trek-needs-new-blood/

…A great listing of Trek books that never were can be found here. Note that quite a few of these were canned during the Arnold Dictatorship:

http://www.well.com/~sjroby/lostbooks.html

…In one of the earliest examples of Trek Fandom embracing computer networks to voice their protests, “Melakon” gave Usenet’s Tim Lynch an interview to tell his “side” of the story:

Part 1: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.startrek/browse_thread/thread/6aa057ad1c473b62
Part 2: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.startrek/browse_thread/thread/8c16df5cd313e7fa/dc6376ffa5c85817?lnk=gst&q=richard+arnold%3A+the+interview#dc6376ffa5c85817
Part 3: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.startrek/browse_thread/thread/a7ef365dda7bbe1c/2d74055cfb69929b?lnk=gst&q=richard+arnold%3A+the+interview#2d74055cfb69929b
Part 4: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.startrek/browse_thread/thread/15ba821369124f67/78a27957cc3ab32a?lnk=gst&q=richard+arnold%3A+the+interview#78a27957cc3ab32a
Part 5: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.startrek/browse_thread/thread/18d9d6188ca77aca/541a8f9149e8f62e?lnk=gst&q=richard+arnold%3A+the+interview#541a8f9149e8f62e

…For the short-attention spanners out there, here’s the highlights:

http://www.canonwars.com/STCanonquotes-Arnold.html

…Here’s a 2002 Newsarama thread where the Arnold debacle was discussed, with PAD’s comments here and there:

http://forum.newsarama.com/archive/index.php/t-1005.html

….There’s probably a few more tirades against the schmuck out there – and some of them are probably by me, natch – but that should be enough to fill in all the gaps. Enjoy!

Richard Arnold…ugh. Never was there a more useless individual attached to the Star Trek franchise. He did ONLY damage to Star Trek, always claiming to be acting on Roddenberry’s behalf when in fact he was pushing his own warped, ill-informed and nearsighted vision of the Trek universe. He’s always a complete jerk to fans at conventions, and he was a nightmare to those who wrote books and comics during his tenure. That he even gets invited to conventions anymore is absurd–he has NOTHING to contribute to fandom, and never did.

It’s ‘gina, ’cause I know she had it on her. Hey, can we impose a mandatory “methinks” restriction? I wanna take a hostage everytime I see that.

this is anonymous from before, sorry for the mixup OM, maybe byrne was posting under doomMD – the capitals must’ve been what I was zeroed in on.

so if you aren’t Byrne, I might hafta start actually reading your comments instead of passing them.

:D

The whole vagina is showing thing is prevalent outside of comics as well. A few years ago, some guy called into the Stern show talking about how Jennifer Aniston had a cameltoe in a photo in some celebrity list. I looked the next time I was at a magazine stand, and it was quite clearly a fold in her shorts (one of many) and not in any way a camel toe. People’s imaginations run away with them.

R. J. Sterling

July 21, 2008 at 4:23 pm

Longtime listener, first-time caller. You guys who say the first of this week’s items is lame and unworthy of discussion are being kind of dicky. Seriously, Cronin cranks these out week after week, and (a) he’s doing this for fun, right? Doesn’t he have to work at a job to earn a living? He’s not getting paid, right? You ought to be grateful merely for the fact he keeps to that schedule; (b) he covers a minimum of three every week, so how long do you suppose he can maintain such a pace and not run clean out of “urban legends” to write about? Try doing this kind of thing your ownself and see how long you can keep it up. Be grateful he does anything for your enjoyment at all. Of course, if this is his full-time job and he gets paid, never mind. On another topic, how many of you people in your comments discussing publishing rights or whatever say “revert BACK”? “Revert” means “turn back”, so when you say “revert BACK”, you’re saying “turn back back”. That’s redundant. Stop it. Same goes for “report” and “reflect”. The prefix “re-” means back. JUST SAY “REVERT”.

Backtards.

1) I agree with the “methinks” restriction. That, and all other nerd-language appropriated from an imagined caricature of the Middle Ages, or from a pathetic grasping at eloquence. If I have to hear about another person who “finds something amusing,” rather than just “thinks it’s funny,” I’ll punch a frog.

2) Urban Legend: An issue of X-Force was cancelled for dealing with the resurrection of Martin Luther King, Jr.

I don’t know about the MLK thing, but an storyline featuring the resurrection of (and joining of X-force) of Princess Diana was heavily edited…

You guys who say the first of this week’s items is lame and unworthy of discussion are being kind of dicky.

Yeah. but somebody says that every week.

COMIC URBAN LEGEND: Dan Didio is actually Jack Kirby’s Love Child!

STATUS: True

Todays legend is stupid. It doesn’t even talk about Dazzler at all! Who cares!

[quote]I don’t know about the MLK thing, but an storyline featuring the resurrection of (and joining of X-force) of Princess Diana was heavily edited…[/quote]Edited how?

Edited as in, they made the character a resurrected British pop-star instead…who also had the same hair style as Diana, but also supported the same charities as Diana as well (AIDS, landmines)…this was during the Milligan era.

As for Longshot’s “low sales” … this book was a hot item upon its release and stayed that way for several years. By the beginning of 1987 the first and last issues regularly sold for $15, while the other four averaged $10 each. I had a tough (and expensive) time trying to complete this series as a kid.

And because the first issue is labeled Part 1 of 6, Longshot’s sales CLEARLY wasn’t the factor in making it a limited series.

Longshot was an expensive book BECAUSE it did not sell that well.

Lower sales = Lower supply = Higher prices on the secondary market.

Compare the price of, say, Peter Parker: Spider-Man (Vol. 2) #15 with Spider-Man #15 (no importance to those numbers besides I know the former issue sold a LOT less than the latter issue, but after a quick visit to Mile High Comics, I see the former is selling for almost double the price of the latter).

OM: Yet, Nocenti’s and JRjr’s DD out sold Miller’s DD.

And methinks acidhag and Jono11 need to go to a relaxing spa. I find it amusing that they find such things so hard to take. :) Bottom line: Learn to laugh at the world rather than let it get to you. If people want to embarrass themselves, let ‘em. It’s a hoot.

And quick poll. Who did more damage to Star Trek? Richard Arnold, Rick Berman or…Gene Roddenberry?

JMN

OM wrote:
“…No, but you *can* tell that she’s made it impossible to tell whether the curtains match the drapes :-)”

Aren’t curtains and drapes the same thing?

[…] intended to be gay. Grant Morrison ghost-wrote an issue of Mark Millar’s The Authority. #164 – A female character’s genitalia was exposed in an issue of Action Comics. Longshot was going to have a follow-up mini-series by Ann Nocenti and Art Adams. To make a point, […]

ParanoidObsessive

November 22, 2008 at 3:18 am

>>> If I have to hear about another person who “finds something amusing,” rather than just “thinks it’s funny,” I’ll punch a frog.

Oddly enough, I find the mental image of you punching a frog incredibly amusing.

Not so amusing for the frog, methinks.

[…] of his editorial meddling, Arnold would take exception to Diane Duane’s Romulan Way novels, force Peter David to quite the Star Trek tie-in comic and even heavily “revise” Bonanno’s follow-up novel Music of the Spheres. It has […]

[…] the roof, demanding the head of this most incompetent Star Trek tie-in writer. It didn’t. The ideas that were unacceptable when Peter David signed his name to them were suddenly a lot easier…. Which is something that damages any of the credibility that Arnold had in any of his dealings with […]

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