Comments on: John Seavey's Storytelling Engines: Rampaging Hulk

By: Lothor

Lothor — Sat, 02 Aug 2008 08:28:55 +0000

I appreciate Hal's support (misspelling my name notwithstanding), but I think he doth protest a tad on the much side. First, I was responding to a comment, not the article itself. Second: pre-retcon, R-Hulk was set between Incredible Hulk 6 & TTA 59, when the Hulk didn't have a solo series. During this gap Avengers 1 happened. In Avengers 1 the individual Avengers met each other for the first time (other than Ant-Man & Wasp obviously). I just skimmed issues 8 & 9 of R-Hulk, in which the proto-Avengers appear. (Yes, I am a geek and keep them easily available. My co-habitants are quite annoyed.) In issue 8 Pym & Van Dyne don't recognize Rick Jones as anyone they've met before - he's just "that teenager." On the last page of the story in #9 Ant-Man says "...there really is a Hulk and not just a creation of those aliens...Lord knows where he is now or whether we'll ever meet him again - as friend or foe." While it's possible to interpret what goes on in the issues such that Thor, Iron Man, and Ant-Man & Wasp all know each other I think it's more likely that they all have heard of each other. At most they've barely heard of the Hulk and definitely haven't worked with him before. It's true that the cover blurb on issue 8 says "The Might Avengers" and issue 9's story is called "To Avenge the Earth" but they're never called the Avengers in-story. It's also true that John states incorrectly that Rampaging Hulk was created based on the TV series's existence. That's in itself is no reason to out-and-out reject all of his work.

By: Chris Schillig

Chris Schillig — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 18:54:53 +0000

Obviously, RH wasn't influenced by the television show with the very first issue, but by the time the mag switched to the present day and started to focus on more down-to-earth stories, the television show's presence was making itself felt.

By: Hal King

Hal King — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 17:48:08 +0000

I know this is late, but I just now found this via a link in the new CBUL entry. Lothar is completely right about each error in the text he points out. Furthermore, the first issue of R-HULK is dated January 1977, while the PILOTS for the Hulk TV series didn't air until the following fall, rendering this mag being influenced by the other a chronological impossibility. Finally, the later end of the gap in which this was supposedly inserted was NOT the first issue of AVENGERS, but the TALES TO ASTONISH edition where Hulk's second solo series started. In their RAMPAGING appearance, those heroes are called the Avengers. I don't think I'll bother checking any more of Seavey's work in this series.

By: Chris Schillig

Chris Schillig — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 13:53:32 +0000

Are you serious? Marvel characters who've known each other for decades will fight when they catch each other jaywalking, for heaven's sake. Loki's scheme still would work today, let alone back in Avengers #1!

By: Omar Karindu

Omar Karindu — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 13:44:06 +0000

Dalaraso, the problem it raises for Avengers #1 is with the entire plot of the 1963 comic -- if they'd worked with the Hulk before, it's unlikely Loki's trick would have instantly turned the other heroes against him.

By: Lothor

Lothor — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 05:08:53 +0000

Finally the series just kind of petered out with issue 12.

FWIW the change happened with issue 10. #s 1-9 were "Rampaging" in B&W and with 10 it became just "The Hulk!" and it was more-or-less based on the TV series (but Banner was still Robert Bruce, not David Bruce).

By: Dalarsco

Dalarsco — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 18:05:38 +0000

You know, I actually like the idea that the Avengers met before Avengers #1. It makes their decision to form The Avengers feel less forced if they had worked together twice instead of once.

By: Brian Cronin

Brian Cronin — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 13:03:07 +0000

Yeah, Tempest Fugit officially retconned Jones' run.

I don't believe it was David's idea, though. I think it was an editorial decision.

By: Filrouge

Filrouge — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 12:33:03 +0000

Sijo, you're talking about Tempest Fugit? I don't remember Nightmare saying it was all a dream. I seem to recall that Nightmare said Banner couldn't be sure it was real (but as I seem to put my brain cells under great strain, my memory could be faulty)

By: MCM

MCM — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 12:20:20 +0000

I loved this series when it came out in '76. (Nearly a year before the TV version of the Great Green Grunter.) I loved the sense of humor Moench gave the writing which was perfectly complemented by the art by Walt Simonson and Alfredo Alcala in the earlier issues. It was fun and a little silly. Finally the series just kind of petered out with issue 12. In 1978 it was renamed "Hulk" and featured stories patterned after the "Incredible Hulk" TV show. The backup feature in the book was a strip called "Bloodstone", about a ten thousand year old man who was granted immortality by a mystic gem lodged in his chest. Sometimes I looked forward to those stories more than the main story. Just when the storyline was getting really good Marvel abruptly ( and, in my opinion, arbitrarily) killed the character off. If you can find issues of this gem I think you'll enjoy them.

By: Sijo

Sijo — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 00:52:28 +0000

The biggest Marvel retcon I can think of (OK, BESIDES the "Spider-marriage never happened" thing) was precisely in the pages of Hulk as well: apparently, the whole "Mr. Blue" era (where Betty Ross turned up alive) was just a dream that Banner had, courtesy of his old foe Nightmare! An ENTIRE writer's run done away because Peter David didn't like the changes he made? Now, I'm not saying the erased stuff was good, but like Brian said, it's annoying when the comics do things like that to us fans. I'd much rather have bad stories fixed (and then forgotten) than explicitly retconned.

By: Tom Fitzpatrick

Tom Fitzpatrick — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 00:11:36 +0000

Hulk smash puny humans.

By: John Seavey

John Seavey — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 23:54:04 +0000

Yes, she goes into quite a bit of detail about the differences between the "movie" Krylorians and the actual race (she's a renegade peace-loving Krylorian in the "movie", and the "real" Bereet describes the imperial "movie" Krylorians as being a parody of her own stodgy, dull race) and she laments never having met the actual Hulk and Rick Jones, as she's seen them in action and wishes she could have adventures like that. It's very unambiguous from the text that the 'Rampaging Hulk' stories are faked.

By: Chris Schillig

Chris Schillig — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 20:27:06 +0000

I don't have the book in front of me, but the impression I have is that the female alien was making mental movies of some kind (pre-CGI, too! ) to impress her people, and that the events in the stories didn't actually happen to the real Hulk and Rick.

By: T.

T. — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 20:06:49 +0000

I'm just curious, how does that story erase the continuity? It seems to be saying those stories still happened, they just happened to be recorded. Were Hulk and Rick Jones acting out a script?

By: Will

Will — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:58:05 +0000

Actually The Rampaging Hulk came out before the TV movies or the TV series.

Later on the magazine would be color instead of B&W & have the 'as seen on TV" blurb

By: John Trumbull

John Trumbull — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:33:44 +0000

Interesting. Marvel has been known to change things around at times (like whether or not the Vision was once the Human Torch), but it's rare that they actually throw out a story out of continuity. The only other examples I can think of are John Bryne's revamps of Spider-Man's and the Hulk's origins.

By: buttler

buttler — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:30:59 +0000

God, I remember reading that issue of The Incredible Hulk when I was a kid. It was one of those attempts to resolve messy continuity that wound up being sillier than if they'd just left it alone.

By: Chris Schillig

Chris Schillig — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:26:00 +0000

In a later issue of THE INCREDIBLE HULK, it was explained that the events in the b&w title were actually movies filmed by the Krylorian woman (Breet?) who was a traveling companion of Hulk and Rick. That story is reprinted in the Essential trade paperback that came out earlier this year.

By: T.

T. — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:22:24 +0000

Bizarre, that in trying to appeal to the public of the (more realistic) TV show they came with a proposal that was even more outlandish than the regular comic book.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.