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CSBG Archive

SDCC Thought on Valerie D’Orazio’s Cloak and Dagger

It looks fun!

41 Comments

Dagger looks 13

Who with the what, now?!!?! Man, she must have a pretty tight hat to have kept that under all this time.

They hold off for years and years with Quesada saying they still just haven’t gotten the right pitch and this is what we end up with? Okay. If you say so.

D’Orazio doesn’t deserve attention for “saying goodbye” then “returning” to comics. She’d be like Brett Favre, except that would mean she would have had to do something before her “retirement” to warrant the attention.

…and yes, Dagger looks 13, which is really ruining this book for me.

Yeah, I like the modifications to her costume, and I love the characters…but yeah, too young-girl, hip-manga-style looking for me. But…it is C&D, so going to give it a chance.

Aw, I saw the Miyazawa artwork and got all excited. *sigh*

1. I don’t do manga.

2. Skilled writers have been trying to get a job writing for Marvel for years and can’t get a foot in the door. And there are countless experienced writers from the past who can;t get a job writing for Marvel, yet someone who has never written before gets a chance.

3. She only got the job because she writes bad things about DC.

Gods, you people are pathetic.

It looks more like Cloak and Liz Allen.

It doesn’t look like comics from twenty years ago and it’s drawn by an experienced editor with a VAST working knowledge of comics! Also the character doesn’t look exactly like I imagine her in my head!

It’s obviously crap!

Holy flash points for controversy, the bile really runneth over in the comments for this entry. Meanies, the lot of you.

It’s absolutely imperative that this be judged long before anyone has seen a page of it, based on a couple of promotional pics.

Stupid Stupid Internt Creatures.

Valerie is great. As a reader of her blogs for some time, I’ve been impressed by her honesty, her writing in general and I appreciate the fact she shows so much concern in her writings when talking about the need for tighter editing, scripting and good continuity sense in comics.

Really, I’ve seen her write plenty of things about DC where she *isn’t* dissing them in the slightest, and she’s always taken a much more balanced approach to Dan Didio than either myself or many other gunslinging bloggers with an interest in comics have probably done at various point. I can think of quite a few people who went from an editing background to writing and they did fine – no reason why she can’t do it too.

It’s not like she’s just “that woman who bitches about DC” on her blog or whatever. She has an important role in Friends of Lulu, she champions the cause of webcomics, and has also approached a lot of gender / diversity issues with the kind of level head I wish some of the more outspoken female bloggers would have done. In short, not sure why so much vitriol over this one but meh. Well, here endeth the “I believe in Harvey Dent” pitch.

It’s not like she’s just “that woman who bitches about DC” on her blog or whatever.

I agree. Ms. d’Orazio has writing chops, she can put words together.

But even if she WAS just bitching about DC on her blog, she had CAUSE. This is the part of the fan hostility towards her that baffles me. She was recounting stories that ACTUALLY HAPPENED to her, and providing an insight into the actual working environment at that time.

How is that a disservice to anyone other than the offending parties– who frankly had it coming? I don’t get the outrage over her memoirs, especiially from fans who don’t work at DC and nerver will.

As for the ‘too manga’ complaint, well, mileage varies, but you can hardly blame Marvel for following the market. The stuff sells.

I don’t know Valerie D’Orazio’s work, but as far as artwork goes, it’s pretty cool.

Cloak and Dagger are pretty young. They are older than the Runaways tho and should be shown as such.

Annoyed Grunt

July 28, 2008 at 1:27 pm

Really, if bitching about DC got you work at Marvel every blogger would have their own series.

However, having a bit of a following online might have helped her get this gig. I don’t know how many readers she has but if 1000 extra people buy the series then that’s great because, honestly, Cloak and Dagger need all the help they can get.

I’ve enjoyed Valerie’s blog and I’m curious to see what she does with this series. I’ve enjoyed Cloak & Dagger since I was a teen so I’m really looking forward to this. The art is very appealing.

Andrew Collins

July 28, 2008 at 3:28 pm

I can’t believe people are being THAT judgmental about a book before even reading it. Oh wait, this is the internet…never mind.

That said, I am very excited for this. Not as much as I am for Grell’s return to Warlord, but this was probably the second biggest news story of the weekend for me. I like the art samples and I like some of the hints Valerie gave about the story direction. This is a must buy for me when it comes out.

Looks pretty good to me.

Drawing art with a shojo influenced style does not make this “manga”, anymore than the “Marvel Mangaverse” being drawn in a shonen style and piling on the stereotypes made it manga.

I’ll check it out.

Maybe I am wrong about this. Maybe it WILL be good. Maybe her boyfriend will write it for her.

Alan, your hostility towards her is seriously weirding me out.

Did she, like, punch your mother in the face or something?

I could understand your attitude towards her if that were the case. Otherwise, not so much.

This thread has shown me that the first few posts on a CSBG thread are pointless and not worth reading; the intelligent posters seem to take a moment and post when they have their thoughts fully formed.

The comments from Michael through Nessor Sille show that on the whole, this site has intelligent readers.

And then Alan Coil spoke up again. What’s up with that dude?

I think that Alan’s pitch for Cloak & Dagger was turned down.

Happens to the best of us, Alan. One day you’ll get your chance. Just keep on swinging for the fences.

The only thing I don’t like about her pitch is the implication of Dagger cutting herself. Okay, sure, her name refers to a blade, but please don’t make her an emo kid. That would kill the book for me.

Wait, how did I get lumped in with the hate wave of negativity. *whines* All I said was that I was sad that Miyazawa wasn’t actually doing the art for the series like the posted art had led me to hope. No knock against Flores intended – I just completely adores Miyazawa’s lines ^_^

Sorry, it was hard to see your beacon of hope amidst the bile. You’re cool, dude. I’ll even write that in a linkedin recommendation for you

Personally, I think it’s smart for Marvel to go with a manga-inspired style, given that manga outsells their books by a factor of ten to one. Adopt, adapt, and improve, right?

I’ll give this one a look when it comes out, finances permitting.

Mike Loughlin

July 28, 2008 at 6:56 pm

On the other hand, manga-inspired art didn’t help Runaways or Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane become top sellers. I hope this title does well, but I don’t think manga-like art will bring in many converts.

“If you like the ‘Runaways,’ ‘Buffy the Vampire Slayer,’ ‘The Sandman,’ or ‘Strangers in Paradise’ you will love ‘Cloak & Dagger,’” she said. “ I’m not saying I’m comparing myself to Brian K. Vaughan, Joss Whedon, Neil Gaiman, or Terry Moore. I’m just an incredibly lucky girl with a blog who sort of got her life’s wish dropped into her lap. But I’ve also had a lot of experience writing ad copy for Previews. So, ‘If you like the “Runaways,” “Buffy the Vampire Slayer,” “The Sandman,” or “Strangers in Paradise,” you will love “Cloak & Dagger.” Guest-starring Wolverine, Spider-Man, and Ghost Rider!”’

“No, just kidding!”

-Valerie D’Orazio (via an interview with Dave Richards)

Oh my god!! HOW AWFUL IS SHE?!?

I can’t believe Marvel did not even THINK to see if Joe Simon was interested in writing Cloak and Dagger before giving her the gig!

I’m not sure whether I like her or not. One the one hand, I didn’t care for any of those series except Sandman. On the other hand, I liked her joke at the end (though having GR as a guest star is a bit outdated, even for a joke no?).

My main worry is her lack of experience. Being a copy writer for Previews and a blogger aren’t exactly things that lend themselves to being a writer (no offense intended to people who do those jobs). Has she done anything else at all? I’m surprised Marvel didn’t give her a few smaller assignments first as a sort of test run.

It’s not like they showed great confidence in her by handing her an icon.

There’s really nothing to lose here for anyone concerned….

Besides the C&D fans if it sucks? All 50 of us, anyway ;)

I enjoy her blog a lot, and have thought for some time that I would happily check out any book that she got a writing assignment on…
My problem is that I’ve always hated Cloak & Dagger, right from their debut (ya just can’t win some days, you know?).
In fact, if I was picking up an attitude of “I’m going to pull these characters inside out, subvert everything about them, and screw their fans over six ways to Sunday”*, I’d be more interested than the affectionate, respectful treatment I’m picking up from the announcement and interview.
Hopefully it’ll lead to her being assigned to characters I’m interested in at some point.

*Which, if you’re interpreting her take as such, you’re deluded.

<>

Acclaim Comics

* The Tick – A World Full of Pain(t), (assistant editor)
* Darque Passages, (assistant editor)
* Shadowman, (assistant editor)
* Magus: Robot Fighter, (assistant editor)

DC Comics

* Aquaman, 4th Series – Ongoing Series, #1-4 (assistant editor)
* Catwoman: Selina’s Big Score, (assistant editor)
* Batman: Black and White, Volume II, (assistant editor)
* The New Frontier – Limited Series, #1-6 (assistant editor)
* Identity Crisis – Limited Series, (assistant editor)
* JLA – Ongoing Series, #91-99 (assistant editor)
* JLA: Scary Monsters – Limited Series, #1-6 (assistant editor)
* JSA: All Stars – Limited Series, (assistant editor)
* Justice League Elite – Limited Series, (assistant editor)
* Arkham Asylum: Living Hell, (editor)
* Rose and Thorn, (assistant editor)
* Hawkman, (assistant editor)

Sorry, that was in response to what else she has done in addition to being President of Friends of Lulu, a columnist, and a blogger. And, i don’t seem to remember this reaction when Gail Simone (happy birthday, Gail!) started writing after her column – or when Pete Tomasi went from editor to writer, or Stuart Moore either, for that matter. Reading scripts by Slott, Meltzer, and Cooke should give her the insight to know how to craft a great story.

Tom:

“I don’t seem to remember this reaction when Gail Simone (happy birthday, Gail!) started writing after her column – or when Pete Tomasi went from editor to writer, or Stuart Moore either, for that matter. Reading scripts by Slott, Meltzer, and Cooke should give her the insight to know how to craft a great story.”

Gail got lots of ridicule and scorn when she got her break, it just wasn’t well received here at CBR and often nipped in the bud almost immediately. And she still has plenty of detractors, despite her reasonable success. (But hey, who doesn’t?)

And Peter Tomasi and Stuart Moore both stopped being editors to become writers. Had they kept their editorial positions, I assure you many of us would have ripped them a new one, and I would have been one of the first to do so. I’ve always stood against editorial writing on the side when there’s other established and aspiring writers available. (Mainly because having been an editor myself, I feel that if you’re doing your job properly, you don’t have the time to be writing your own stuff and trying to get it published. And seeing as you already have a paying job, you have to be all kinds of asshole to prevent a freelancer from acquiring a spot on the publishing schedule – and limit their income potential – just to fulfill your own vanity.)

*********

Matt D wrote:

“They hold off for years and years with Quesada saying they still just haven’t gotten the right pitch and this is what we end up with?”

Joe Quesada emailed me and told me not to submit my 3 issue Cloak & Dagger miniseries proposal in 1999 because he “does not like” the characters and “cannot see using them in any capacity in the Marvel Knights lineup” (while soliciting Chuck Dixon’s MARVEL KNIGHTS featuring Guess Who? the following month). He physically refused Randy Zimmerman’s pitch in 2001 (as in shoved it back into his hands and said he would not even consider it). He returned David Elyea’s pitch unopened in 2001; returned Anthony Hamm’s pitch unopened in 2002.

So I have to say that Marvel could have a C&D project by SOMEBODY before this, likely could have had a good one at that. It’s apparently a situation where Joe Quesada personally didn’t want one. Because one can’t say ‘the right pitch never came in’ when one won’t even accept or review them for consideration.

**********

As for THIS project.

It’s not Val’s fault, but when you work for a publisher that is the major rival of the company that just mistreated you and you publicly state you’re leaving the business due to that mistreatment, and you’re the President of an organization set up to represent women creators, AND you have an all female creative team to boot, you might as well have Marvel parade you around Times Square next. It’s sadly one big PR Play on Marvel’s part.

But I also know Val’s not stupid and I’m sure she realizes that she’s set herself up for this scrutiny and that she and Irene have their work cut out for them to produce a work that stifles such perspective. The pressure is on, ladies. I wish you luck.

I’m intrigued but find Dagger’s costume a negative distraction. I’m hoping the over-done “look at my flesh” look will be tweaked away when the book comes out. Not saying the art isn’t good, just that I always have difficulty taking that sort of costume design seriously.

I can’t remember ever seeing this book. Did it get cancelled before it even appeared?

WHEN THE HELL IS THIS COMING OUT?!

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