Comic Book Resources

Just a note - Yue’s statement passed a casual fact-check via my memory (In that I could not recall any examples of Northstar kissing anyone), but I’m mostly just taking Yue’s word for it.

Well until he’s in a MAX book, we won’t see him kiss another man, because man-kisses aren’t suitable for children.

Northstar’s had four on-page kisses in about thirty years of writing. Two were Rogue, one was a lady carnie/ex-FLQer, and one was a nun. (I don’t count the mouth-to-mouth with homophobe in ‘Eve of Destruction.)

No wonder he’s such a sourpuss all of the time.

Here we go — I think all four are about halfway down this dial-up unfriendly link:

http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/2310687.html

It’s sad but not surprising since the Big Two still seem to be afraid of this whole ‘gay’ thing you hear about in the news and stuff.

It’s become okay for them to have a character who IS gay, but actually showing them in a loving or committed relationship still seems to get short shrift. There are starting to be some changes to this, such as Obsidian’s relationship with Todd in Manhunter, but it’s been a long time coming.

Lesbians have gotten a little more of a pass, supposedly because they make better fanboy-fantasy fodder (hello alliteration) but even they sometimes make the publishers nervous (witness DC sitting on a Batwoman series due to hesitancy over putting out a ‘gay Bat-character’ series in a movie year…)

Northstar and Hector (Of Pantheon-Era Incredible Hulk fame, of course!) were hinted as having a bit of a thing goin’ on, as depicted in this page from the Marvel Swimsuit Spectacular (Oh Jesus, please forgive me) and a couple of panels of the Rick Jones & Marlo Chandler Wedding issue of Hulk. No kissin’, though.

Of course, the relationship could have been completely platonic and they just liked to discuss how tokenism masquerading as progressive relevance coupled with editorial cowardice and general uncreativity can lead to really, really boring characters.

It’s pretty sad that possibly the most touching same-sex relationship in Big Two comics has been between a French gorilla and a brain in a jar.

Upon further thought, scratch the “same-sex” part, and replace “pretty sad” with “downright depressing”.

I couldn’t have put it better myself, layne.

Who are now both dead, thanks to Grodd, in Salvation Run…

I think Grodd should wear a beret as punishment…

“Lesbians have gotten a little more of a pass, supposedly because they make better fanboy-fantasy fodder (hello alliteration) but even they sometimes make the publishers nervous (witness DC sitting on a Batwoman series due to hesitancy over putting out a ‘gay Bat-character’ series in a movie year…)”

Hello, Haven’t you been watching “The L Word”?

Lesbians are hot.
Lesbians are sexy.

I’d kiss him

Yeah, it’s all part of the “liberal bias” perpetrated by the “gay mafia”, as denounced by many a social conservative. A pity that this supposedly powerful gay mafia is really incompetent, since they couldn’t even sneak in a kiss by one of the most known gay characters in comics.

Seriously, whatever liberal bias the writers may have will always be balanced by the execs and suits shaking in their little booties with fear of dreaded concerned parents and other boycott groups targeting their products.

Has Northstar ever had an boy friend on-screen?

I would replace the word “silly” with “cowardly.” You can show someone with their face burnt off in standard Marvel continuity but if you show a man kissing hos boyfriend you have to wack an adult content warning on the cover. Lame.

Why in the name of spam would anybody want to see two male characters kiss? Yech! The costumes make them look “faggy” enough without them resorting to outright faggotry.

http://www.pinkkryptonite.com/2008/06/has_northstar_never_been_kisse.html

Actually, Northstar WAS kissed by a man once.

The Villain Pestilence, who needed to “absorb” something from him to regain his strength. (Alpha Flight vol. 1 # 36.)

Though this was before his officially coming out. And it was NOT a kiss of love, which was I think most you mean.

(That story also hinted that Northstar was VHI positive. But it could also have cured him (I don’t recall.)

As a male, heterosexual reader, I do not disapprove of characters in a gay relation. I’m not going to look at any kissing or sex scenes involving them, but that’s a matter of simply looking past it on to the next panel- not a reason to recoil in horror or refuse to buy a book. Being gay is only a big deal because or society makes it to be.

Amen to MCM’s comment! I’m sick to death of Gay characters being pushed down our throats! This is one of the reasons comic reader-ship is down. So many people come into the shop nowadays and make comments on that very subject, “Did they have to put that in there” or “Why can’t the comic companies keep this trash out of, (fill in the name of the comic)”? Soon after, most of these customers drop those comics and go on to something else.
Joe Q and Dan D, please listen to your long time customers and retailers: Get rid of these disgusting characters and bring back a renaissance in comics. If you do, the readers will come back.

Oh dammit, I misspelled HIV. It looks like “VH1″! That was NOT an intentional joke! Where’s the Edit Post button here…?

“Hello, Haven’t you been watching “The L Word”?

Lesbians are hot.
Lesbians are sexy.”

I haven’t seen L Word but I do know the show and as a hetero male, I agree, lesbians are quite sexy at times. But my point was this- while comics has exploited girl-on-girl action considerably in the past, even the big companies seem reluctant to give a lesbian her own series. The one major exception to that being the work DC has done with Renee Montoya, both in 52 and as The Question in the Crime Bible mini. Which I applaud them for, especially since they’ve been able to define Renee as more than just a token lesbian and define her beyond her sexuality, which is where some writers of gay/lesbian characters stop.

I just found it odd the way DC has handled Batwoman since she was ‘outed’ in the media a year or two ago. They really tried downplaying it at the time, like they were embarrased by it, and according to Rich Johnston, they’ve been sitting on a Greg Rucka/JH Williams project because of uneasiness about putting out a lesbian-themed Bat-book. I guess the “Bat” is the key word here. I just find it ridiculous that a character’s sexuality would be the sticking point for ANY comic in the year 2008, no matter what emblem the character wears on their chest…

Yes this silly! Discussing the grossness of being gay is bad enough but queer’s in comic books? Now that is so gross it’s silly to even think about it! As Scooby Doo and Shaggy would say, “Double YUCK, YUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lesbians are not hot and are definitely not sexy. I don’t look at other women in a lustful way and I don’t want them to look at me in that manner.
Why is that even an issue and why would this type of material still be in comics? It seems to me that a lot of people have let their feelings be known and they want this type of subject matter out of comics. Because most comics are written for adults in this day and time, does not mean it has to be perverse and push the subject matter of gays on us. Comics should be sophisticated and written with a great story in mind; get rid of all the stuff that is causing people to quit reading comics!

How did this go from an intelligent discussion about depictions of homosexuals in comics to almost outright homophobia?

If these homophobes are serious in their comments and not simply making jokes that are falling flat, it would be easier to take them seriously if they used their real names and didn’t hide behind pseudonyms like Klansmen hiding under their hoods. Step up and be witnessed, manly men. Oh, yeah, I’m straight.

I don’t know about everyone else, but I’m just sitting here awaiting the COMICS RENAISSANCE where people set aside their televisions, video games, movies, and turn to reading (mostly) overpriced stories of people wearing non-”faggy” costumes and solving their problems through violence…

Oh, save us Dan and Joe! Save us please!

Not complaining at all though! Two men kissing is just GROSS. Ewwwwwwwwww. Blech. Barf.

I am not sure what I find more offensive, the idea that Northstar has been openly gay (in comics) for over 15 years and hasn’t been shown kissing a partner or lover or that poster showing Hector and Northstar lounging about. It’s not the poster that bugs me, but the idea that the only two openly gay male superheroes in the Marvel universe would find each other and date. It’s like Chuck and Nancy at High or Frankie and Maria.

I just don’t have much confidence that Marvel could have depicted a relationship between two gay men in a mature way.

And I don’t for one second believe that readers are boycotting because of gay characters!

I wonder if MCM, Avengers4ever, Circleoffire, and Menandwomenarenothesame are all the same person flooding this thread.

Whether you’re the same person or different ones, I find your behaviour to be as gross, perverse, and obnoxious as you find gays. Yet, I don’t wish you to be banished from public life and to be made invisible. I realize the world is not all about me. Unlike you guys, I have no desire to remake the world in my image and want everyone to be like me and to like what I like.

I’d like to cast a vote on the side of the homophobia in this thread being really awful. Now I’m afraid to reveal to anyone on the internet which hand I write with.

Hmm, sounds like one of Lorendiac’s ‘Motives for Becoming a Supervillain’. Ha-ha.

I’m sick to death of Gay characters being pushed down our throats!

*Bites tongue*

I thought this thread was about gay characters not pushing anything down anyone’s throat.

Which hand you write with? You mean you’re not ambidextrous like NORMAL people? No one wants to hear from you, freak. Go back to your one-handed ghetto.

The X-Men did just move to San Francisco, a very gay-friendly town, so there’s a distinct possibility that Northstar might finally find a bit of happiness (if you’ll pardon the pun).

That is, if any of the X-Writers decide to use him.

Is Northstar alive again?

To be fair, there’s not a HUGE amount of heterosexual kissing going on in the big 2 either.

IanA : mentioning San Francisco reminded me of the irony of X-Force moving there, after dropping Rictor & Shatterstar and their blatant homosexual subtext.

Now wait a second….

WHY does he HAVE to be shown to be doing ANYTHING homosexual?

He can be gay without the stereotypical scenes being shown…

So he’s gay? But that shouldn’t define him…

Doesn’t life go on in between the panels? Mayeb he’s private and carrying on a relationship out of the prying eyes of the world, like Jodie Foster…

He could have a very active and kinky life marching in the Parades and whatever else, but it doesn’t necessarily have to be shown…

We’re on a mission to fight an evil menace and save the world, but wait..i have to stop and prove to a bunch of people that im gay and kiss a random man…let’s just dress him up in a rainbow colored costume with a dog collar, give him a lisp, and have him skip everywhere instead of fly…mayeb give him some sort of ‘flaming’ powers instead…

So he’s gay, why does he have to PROVE it to you? Just take him at his word and accept his lifestyle off panel…lol…

Not a huge amount, no, but just about every other issue of Astonishing or Uncanny opens with Scott & Emma in bed. IIRC, She Hulk has been to bed with Juggernaut in the last few years, she or Ms. Marvel were in bed with Iron Man, and a lot of other characters see a fair amount of action. And that’s just Marvel. Batman is always sucking face with someone, even in Martian Manhunter’s death scene!

I’m not saying I want to see more homosexual action in my books, but the Northstar situation is kind of embarassing. Has Ulimate Colossus done any better?

“I wonder if MCM, Avengers4ever, Circleoffire, and Menandwomenarenothesame are all the same person flooding this thread.”

I bet you it’s Chuck Dixon at it again, or Mike Miller…

Shoot, got bumped. To be clear, I was responding to Rhod.

Responding to todd young, I don’t think the point is that he has to prove it, but it’s been 15 years since he’s come out and everyone is getting action but him. If no one else ever showed any sexual interest in anyone else in Marvel or DC comics, it would be one thing, but he’s never even gotten or given a peck on the cheek by anyone but women. It’s just kind of sad. He may as well be in the closet.

Northstar = Morrissey (if Morrissey is gay)

I see Northstar as a guy, who likes guys, maybe he was hurt in the past or maybe he’s saving himself for the right guy. That aloof streak he has points to the sort of perfectionist who wants the right man, the one. He doesn’t have to ‘Psylocke’ himself around, he’s confident and knows the time will come.

I’m hoping Namor finally comes out, Namor/Northstar slash all round.

“I bet you it’s Chuck Dixon at it again, or Mike Miller…”

Are you serious?

I already knew Mike Miller was some kind of religious fanatic that usually posted gay-bashing under pseudonyms, but Chuck Dixon too?

I know he is conservative, but it’s a disappointment to know he does this kind of stuff. I quite enjoyed Nightwing and Birds of Prey, and from his interviews, I got the idea that he wasn’t wild about gays, but he didn’t look like someone capable of posting this kind of stuff.

“He’s been gay since Alpha Flight #1 in 1983 (perhaps before that, but I doubt John Byrne gave much thought to his characterization prior to Alpha Flight getting their own title).”

Is that on the record?

I always thought that John Byrne’s Northstar was just obnoxious with an unhealthy interest in his sister’s sex life, but in the late ‘eighties, someone told me that there had been a gay subtext, which had subsequently been dropped by Bill Mantlo. So I went back and re-read Byrne’s run on the Alpha Flight and I was right, Northstar is obnoxious and has an unhealthy interest in his sister’s sex life, but for the life of me, I can’t see any gay subtext.

Unless being obnoxious and having an unhealthy interest in your sister’s sex life is the gay subtext.

I thought the Colossus/Northstar relatiolnship was handled really well in UXMen, particularly Nightcrawler uncomfortableness and eventual acceptance…

I AM amazed that 616 Northstar has only ever kissed women!!

The best gay relationship so far in comics is still Apollo/midnighter in my opinion… doesn’t the Authority count as Big 2? Or are we just counting Mainstream DC?

Bahahaha, I love the comments by the folks who said that the gay characters are just “being shoved down our throats” and are “everywhere these days.” Yes, clearly this is the case. /sarcasm

Dude, I as a gay man have to put up with Emma Frost’s existence in general.

The least that straight people can deal with is having Northstar hold another man’s hand.

Nerds.

Why in the name of spam would anybody want to see two male characters kiss? Yech! The costumes make them look “faggy” enough without them resorting to outright faggotry.

“Faggotry”?

I don’t care about Northstar being gay. I never did since he’s been such a nothing of a character. Go create someone new and do it right from the beginning. Whatever happened to the gay kids in Young Avengers? (Does that book even come out anymore?)

Come out. Hee hee.

This is the way it should be: why do the writers have to write “gay” or artist have to draw “gay” at all? If you think their gay, fine, if not, fine. Leave it alone. It does not have to be written or drawn that way at all. Let the writers write and the artist draw the characters and if you personally think the character is gay, so be it, if you don’t so be it. Let the writers and artist (especially the DC writers; terrible, just terrible), get back to making stories that mean something.

What, gay men don’t like Emma Frost? How is she different from ‘Will & Grace’s Karen Walker? Except the hair-color.

Why do writers have to write straight? Why do artists have to draw straight?
You can’t excise one part of sexuality completely out of a comic while freely depicting another. It’s at best ignorant and at worst blatantly homophobic.

Someone commented that the only reason homosexuality is a big deal is because society makes it that way.
Why do humans care about anything? For the exact same reason. Would money matter if society didn’t make a big deal out of it? Of course not. We still depict money, greed and finances in comic books don’t we?

No one is suggesting that Marvel or DC creates the big gay comic book and calls attention to all of Northstar’s makeout sessions. I think people are just genuinely interested as to why Northstar’s sex life/love life isn’t treated and portrayed the same way Cyclops’s is or Wolverine’s or hell even the Prowler’s.

You know, there’s a HUGE deal being made out of nothing here…

So there are a couple of gay characters in a couple of DC and Marvel’s series.

Now go back and count ALL the straight heroes (and villians - only just throught of Pied Piper)

Bit of an imbalance there, now isn’t there??

So.. Shoving them down your throats??? I can think of a grand total of eight - five Marvel and three DC

Oh, and I’m excluding Wildstorm/Vertigo and including lesbians…

The big deal is that all the characters I can think of (barring Batwoman and he Question) are pretty boring really…

I’m not saying any of the “Big Guns” (fnar-fnar) need to be outed…

I’m saying why can’t a big name writer create a decent gay character??

Aren’t there a few big name writers who could swing it with editorial by now? (visions of swinging editors are a bit nauseating really, sorry)

“Why do artists have to draw straight?”

Well, if the lines are all squiggly, it’s hard to tell what’s going on.

I supposed I asked for that by not using quotation marks.

I personally think Steve Rogers was gay and that Sharon Carter’s baby is a figment of her overly fertile imagination. I also personally believe that Crossbones shot him over a lover’s spat, not on the orders of the Red Skull. Oh I know I know things are depicted differently on panel, but I just prefer to make up my own goddamn stories and motives.

Northstar is like the token gay character on a TV show. He’s just there to be gay, but none of the creators want him to actually BE gay.

Bernard:
John Byrne was referring to Northstar as “the queer” (referring to who was/wasn’t going to die in AF #12) way back in the misty days of yore, and he’s never been shy about saying that he intended Northstar to be gay from the get-go, as he felt it was something that hadn’t been done before. So yeah, gay from day one.

Hey, Suzene, have you ever seen Byrne speak about WHEN he came up with the “Northstar is gay” idea?

I’ve always gotten the impression that he gave very little thought to their characterizations until he had to suddenly write a comic starring them, but I certainly could be wrong.

@MarkBlack

To paraphrase, Elsa Bloodstone in Nextwave, “That would actually be cool. And explain why there’s always some guy dressed up as Captain America at Gay Pride parades.”

The bigtory in these comments would be comedic in its irony if it wasn’t so repugnant.

I hope you banned the guy who used the F-word, Brian.

Heh, heh, Still love Nextwave…

GIVE THEM ANOTHER SERIES!!!

NEXTWAVE SECRET INVASION - SKRULL-TASTIC!!

I reckon the “Cuddley-wuddley-teddy-bears-of-doom” were one of the highlights…

That and the cover with Aaron holdding a sign saying “Mark Millar Sucks Goats!” - They got away with bestiality, but gay kissing is a no-no??

Amen to the comments from Ryan and Blackjak; a handful of gay characters in all of mainstream comics is not pushing anything “down our throats”, by any stretch.

Obviously some people have a problem with gay characters, and maybe with gay people in general: even one character is too much for them.

You know what? Buy something else. You’ve got enough choices.

Oh, and I got all caught up in the comments that I forgot the original reason I was going to comment: I brought Northstar buttons to Comic-Con last month: “Celebrating 16 Years of Celibacy — 1992-2008″.

From Christopher Butcher’s Flickr photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/comics212/2696478043/

Already planning next year’s button, though I hope it won’t be needed.

Brian:
You’re going to make me go longbox diving and web surfing, aren’t you? Off the top of my head, all I can remember about the Byrne comments on the AF characters prior to the ongoing are that some of them had been around since his fan days, but he might have been referring more to their designs than their characterization in that instance. I’ll see if I can scratch up anything more specific.

@Ryan -

Dude, I as a gay man have to put up with Emma Frost’s existence in general

If I, as a straight man, have to put up with Emma Frost’s existence, I don’t see why you should get off scott-free. Stupid White Queen…

Actually, my best friend is gay and he always loved Emma Frost, but he’ll tell you he prefers the Dark Phoenix-era White Queen over the current “Mrs. Scott Summers” version.

Hey. First time caller, long time listener.

Good stories in comics is great and all, but how good can a story really be if it doesn’t reflect our society in some way?

Sexuality is a pretty big deal in society in therefore can be relevant in stories. And I personally don’t want my preferred media to be just stories about guys in spandex beating each other up. I like it when the stories actually have a point to them and if the point is best conveyed by the writer by making the guys in spandex make sweet sweet man love, then so be it. Then itøs really besides the point if I want to witness it or not, at least there’s another story with a point on the shelves for whoever it may concern.

Directing my answer to B. Rolsted.
Sexuality has become so much of the comic world today that most writers have forgotten how to write good hero stories. Have you forgotten what heroes are? In my years of reading and collecting comics, I would have never thought it would become fashionable to be a drunk, whore, drug addict, queer, or morally degenerate person. This is what many “heroes” of today’s comics are. Comic heroes are supposed to be against evil; not perpetuating it. If you looked at it from the super heroes world, would the average person look up to people of this ilk? I don’t think so.
With so many bad things going on in Hollywood and the sports world (drugs, sex, perversion, steroids, etc), why drag comics down with it? Can’t the writers remember how to write meaningful “classic” stories anymore? I sure hope they can. If this is any indication of where comics are headed, DC, Marvel, Image and the rest are going to continue losing readers and money!

That’s a joke right?

@Karen C

Oh no you didn’t!

Wait, comic heroes are supposed to be, well, anything in particular? Why? Why should they be one thing over and against another?

The great thing about media of expression is that an author can communicate whatever idea comes to mind. There are no particular rules (beyond the changing grammar of the media form) to govern what or how an author communicates. In fact, it’s only as a media form begins to distance itself from the hegemonies that bound it (in our hypothetical case here, the idea that comic heroes are supposed to fit a given structure) that it becomes a valuable tool for communication.

Let me get this straight:

Karen C
August 19, 2008 at 3:05 pm

With so many bad things going on in Hollywood and the sports world (drugs, sex, perversion, steroids, etc), why drag comics down with it?

So, sex is a bad thing? Is it ok to comics depict murder, genocide, robbery and all kinds of crime… But to have two characters who happen to be of the same gender in relationship, that would be wrong?

In his entire published history, we’ve seen him kiss another character ONCE.

That character?

ROGUE!

How silly is this?

Hey, if there’s any woman in the Marvel Universe who could make a gay man weak in the knees by kissing him, it’s Rogue.

Wow… I’m not really “for” or “against” gays, but Karen C’s comment made me cringe.

I seriously suggest that anyone bothered by homosexuality in comics should under no circumstances ever watch OZ.

Superpowers? Rich? Built? I still think Northstar is hot.

“John Byrne was referring to Northstar as “the queer” (referring to who was/wasn’t going to die in AF #12) way back in the misty days of yore,”

So Byrne decides Northstar’s gay and then writes him in an overwhelmingly negative way - bashing Storm from behind, accusing his sister of sleeping with Deadly Ernest, etc, etc. That surely can’t be a coincidence, can it?

And can I assume that when Chris Claremont wrote the X-Men/Alpha Flight and had Rogue and Northstar canoodling, he knew full well that Byrne intended the character to be gay. Payback for Jean Grey’s resurrection?

I remember seeing a few interviews that Prisoners of Gravity (I think only us Canucks will recall that show) with Byrnes with how he explained that he always had envisioned Northstar as being gay, but that it would have very little resonance in the comic as he was trying to focus on other subjects and stories.

Apparentally he had always planned on outing Northstar in a more public manner, but he never got the chance because he was removed from the Alpha Flight title (I might be a bit wrong on that one, I am just trying to remember the whole episode, Gays in Sci/Fi Fantasy and Comics, and the Prisoners of Gravity episode aired like in 92/93, I was barely ten, so the memory might be a bit off).

Anyhoooo as to having some sort of visual realization of homosexual relationships in comics I’m all for it, but I’ve seen way to many poor examples of going about it.

To me it doesn’t matter that its a total side character, its just mainly in certain titles even if their “gayness” isn’t a main issue it should be potrayed atleast somewhat, because it is in character for those characters.

Right now all I’m riding on is Vertigo titles and maybe young Avengers

I’ve been happy to see that Hulkling and Wiccan are shown as a couple in more then a few shots, nothign gaudy, just nice reminding shots that gay heroes are around, and just like everyone else on the team.

Oh, Northstar is only ‘built’ because most comic artists can draw figures only one way. A more skilled artist would probably draw him with a slender elvish anatomy to match those pointy ears. Simmer down.

Sorry. Showing homosexuality as an acceptable lifestyle in a mainstream comic is the same as portraying drug use as acceptable or being a violent criminal as being OK. Let’s not forget that comics are ostensibly written for children. Do you want children believing that homosexuality is acceptable?

By the way, I am not posting under multiple names. I can’t speak for anyone else.

Homosexuality is an acceptable lifestyle, in many countries, including my own.

Some people don’t like it, same with gay marriage, but just about everyone has come ot accept that its part of the human condition, despite whatever beliefs they have that say its not.

And comics stop being printed for children a long long time ago.

As I work in a comic store I can tell you that next to no customers in the store I work at, nor in the others in town are children.

We maintain a section that has childrens comics, and stories and series written with a younger reader in mind.

But 80% of the comics on the market right now are intended for and labelled for teens and older.

Sorry. Showing homosexuality as an acceptable lifestyle in a mainstream comic is the same as portraying drug use as acceptable or being a violent criminal as being OK. Let’s not forget that cimics are ostensibly written for children. Do you want children believing that homosexuality is acceptable?

So, showing someone getting raped shouldn’t be in a mainstream comic book? Because that’s been shown in mainstream comics more often than Northstar has been shown caring for someone of the same sex.

Bernard:

I really liked Northstar as the team pill and the issues between him, Aurora, and Sasquatch were pure soap opera. One of the little touches I enjoyed about early AF was Byrne giving the twins the same taste in men. Even for all that he was written as an ass, he had his good points, chief among them being that he would drop everything and come running if his sister needed him.

I’d be willing to bet that Claremont knew about Northstar being gay. Even aside from the interaction between Northstar and Rogue, Claremont continued with the “OMG, Northstar’s hanging out with a WOMAN?!” thing that popped up once or twice in Alpha Flight. ‘Cuz, you know, being gay is less about being attracted to men and more about thinking girls are icky.

gaymergeek: Neat. I’d never heard about Byrne having plans to out Northstar. I wouldn’t have thought that he could with Shooter being EIC and all.

I’m pretty sure Bryne’s was talking about that during that interview on Prisoners of Gravity (man I miss that show, such a good program). Maybe someone on the forums can find something webcached with it.

Who knows, I’m so computer illiterate.

The only other stuff I ever read with Northstar concerning his gayness was during the Uncanny X Men run (#414 was the first I think).

It was his unrequited attraction to Bobby Drake. anyways, think I’m going off on a tangent.

“Do you want children believing that homosexuality is acceptable?”

Um….yes. Do you honestly believe that in this day and age most people don’t want their children to believe that?

“So, showing someone getting raped shouldn’t be in a mainstream comic book? Because that’s been shown in mainstream comics more often than Northstar has been shown caring for someone of the same sex.”

Nope. Not if it’s portrayed as an acceptable action. Rape is a violent crime.

gaymergeek: I didn’t mean that to sound like skepticism, I was just a little surprised. I want to see that episode now. Found reference to the show, but You Tube is failing me, alas.

So, homosexuality is the same as doing drugs and violent crime?

Why?

And who gets to make this decisions on morality?

You, MCM?

You, Karen B?

Are you the arbiters of what is moral? Who the f… apointed you? And you get to make this choice for me? Or for children that aren’t related to you?

Or is it the Bible that makes the distinctions? Or the law books? They have laws against drugs and robbery, but I don’t think most states in the US has laws against homosexuality.

Are you guys Iranians?

Who is trying to cram their viewpoints down everybody’s throats here?

Furthermore, I ask this:

Violent crime obviously hurts people. Drug use damages one’s health.

But I’ve been gay my entire life and it didn’t hurt anyone, and I’m in excellent health too, thank you.

So, what is this equivalence between violence, drugs, and homosexuality?

Yay! I was just thinking this blog needed more morally stunted religious assholes with minimal reasoning skills posting in the comments section! Bigotry is super fun!

‘So, homosexuality is the same as doing drugs and violent crime? ‘

To the extent that it is deviant and immoral, yeah. I have no problem with whatever consenting adults do with one another. But in an artform that is created primarily for young people I have huge problem with homosexuality being depicted as normal or acceptable. In ‘adults only’ comics’ you may deal with any subject you like. Adults have, presumably’, the intellectual capacity to deal with the presented subject matter. I’d certainly hate to hear that a person indulged in homosexual behavior because of a comic book they read when they were 10.

Why is it immoral?

Who made the decision that it’s immoral?

You?

The Bible?

Who gets to make this decision?

Come on, Rene, the poster is arguing homosexuality is “deviant and immoral.” There’s really no point in discussing it.

Apologies, MCM, I missed part of your post and argued against something you didn’t argue for. I’m sorry.

How would you prefer homosexuals portrayed in mainstream comics? In the closet, dying of aids, or just burning in Hell?

While we’re at it, let’s distinguish between “mainstream” comics and kids comics. Kids comics are not mainstream. They’re a niche market now. Mainstream books appear to be aimed at kids old enough to handle content that would, in a movie, easily garner an R rating. I’ll admit showing that it’s ok to be gay probably isn’t suitable for a mainstream Christian comic, but in a secular setting, showing a couple dudes holding hands isn’t going to bring about the end of civilization. That doesn’t even approach the things they show lesbians doing in mainstream books.

I’d certainly hate to hear that a person indulged in homosexual behavior because of a comic book they read when they were 10.

I know kids jump off things to act like Superman, or fight. That’s usually when they learn the difference between fantasy and reality. We’re not talking about the kind of behaviour you find in Class Comics. We’re talking about characters who have been gay for 15 years and haven’t been shown in a loving committed relationship with anyone but their sister. That sounds deviant.

Whoa, there, MCM. First, comics haven’t been read primarily by young people for a long time. Second, I think you’re drawing some highly spurious causal links between material that we read and the actions that we take.

By the way, what do you read that avoids all of this adult topic matter? I don’t know that I’ve read a comic in the last 5 years that didn’t deal with sexuality in some way, contain violence or deal with drug use of some sort. Hell, i don’t know if I’ve read a book that avoided all those things–non-fiction excluded, of course. People write about what they experience, and all of these are part of the human condition.

And one last question, just to get the boards even more riled up: ever read Morrison comics? Am curious if comics inspired by psychedelics are as bad as comics that say psychedelics are ok. Couldn’t resist given the debates about Morrison that abound…

Brian, the point is, I’m genuinely curious to know from where these guys get all their moral certainty.

I actually have more respect for people who have the guts to come out and say: “Homosexuality is immoral because it’s against God and I believe in God.”

Or: “Homosexuality is immoral because I say so, and I’m equipped to make this morality decision for everyone else, including kids that were fathered by other people and have no relation to me.”

Come on guys. Come out of the closet (hehe) and announce yourselves as either religious persons or authoritarian ones (or both).

In the comics we all love, it’s guys like Doctor Doom and Darkseid that feel so certain of their own greatness that they feel qualified to make decisions for their subjects.

So I wonder why MCM thinks he is qualified to say how my child should be raised, or how the child of a friend of mine should be raised.

“Brian, the point is, I’m genuinely curious to know from where these guys get all their moral certainty.”

Satan! Duh.

I am an atheist; I hate religion in all forms and believe the bible, Koran, the sacred scrolls, whatever, are myths. I also hate homosexuality in all forms. I believe that women and men have evolved to this point not to go against nature but to further our race as being one. Where would we be if only males or females had evolved? The human race wouldn’t have lasted very long.
As far as choice, you have your choice and I have mine. If you choose to condone homosexuality, then I believe you are wrong. I won’t buy comics that have homosexual material included in them. I hope the human race never comes down to condoning things that go against the natural order.