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Wow... they actually print the words and then overprint them? Not exactly how I'd imagined it happening.

Seems kind of unecessary. It's not like Frank Miller is lettering the god damn comic his fucking self.

BTW "The Fucking Batgirl."

Awesome.

It's official, Frank Miller has gone insane. How would anyone think that that's proper language for a Batman comic book. The character is a figurehead for the company. This isn't so Vertigo title, it's ALL STAR BATMAN. Completely careless, reckless even. The editor should be dismissed.

I don't think it is an editing problem.

They've done this same thing for each previous issue. This time, when the issue was printed, the ink wasn't printed dark enough, so the profanity was visible - I think it is a printing issue, not an editing one.

Anonymous, apparently what they want is for you to be able to tell what word it is by the top of the letters, but still making sure you can't actually see any of the letters. To achieve that, they have to actually have the words printed before being blacked out.

I can't quite see how it could be a printing issue unless they're doing something silly like putting the text in black and then blacking it out with all of the other colours. Maybe that's what they're doing...

As an aside, I looked at it before I knew what comic it was and thought "what's that bloody awful 90's Image style art". Then I looked and saw it was ASB+R.

It's not technically a printing problem.

My guess is that the problem is with how the image files were compiled prior to final printing. DanCJ pretty much hit it on the head. The letterer spelled out the text on one layer of the digital image, and somebody (an editor, or maybe the letterer himself) then blacked out the cuss words on another, transparent layer. Now, I'm guessing that the blacking out was done with a slightly lighter "shade" of black or they screwed up the layer transparency. Normally, that wouldn't be an issue when using "analog" printing, where blacks and grays tend to mush together when the latter is laid over the former, but with the accurate color reproduction in digital printing, the slight tonal differences will be evident, and you get what we see here, with the darker outline of the letters still somewhat legible against the very dark gray background.

Ack, I meant "when the latter is laid over the former" in my previous post.

Anyway, the letterer or editor whoever was responsible for ensuring that the cuss words wouldn't be readable should have just merged the text layer and the black out layer. That would have made it less likely for the words to have come out as legible.

If this were an official Batman story I'd complain, but since it's just more of Frank Miller's "Goddamn Batman", I don't- the thing is just a sad parody by now. Besides it is mostly some punks saying the words. My only caveat is that it should have a profanity warning for those unsuspecting people who might pick an issue and be offended (and no, blacking out doesn't justify profanity, as long as the reader can tell still the word.)

"Anonymous, apparently what they want is for you to be able to tell what word it is by the top of the letters, but still making sure you can’t actually see any of the letters. To achieve that, they have to actually have the words printed before being blacked out."

In which case what was the point of blacking them out to begin with? If you want the words to be identifiable then just grow up and print them. Unfortunately I think Frank Miller with a free hand in that regard would be more like a twelve year old who just learned he could get away with saying dirty words when his parents weren't listening, but from a publishing stand point it's a bad idea.

So we have The Goddamn Batman and now the F'ing Batgirl. What's next? That Little Bastard Robin? I'm probably one of the few who has been enjoying this series (when it comes out), but now I'm beginning to think that Frank is off his meds.

"So we have The Goddamn Batman and now the F’ing Batgirl. What’s next? That Little Bastard Robin? I’m probably one of the few who has been enjoying this series (when it comes out), but now I’m beginning to think that Frank is off his meds."

Has he ever been on his meds?

I never did like "That Little Bastard Robin."

ASBAR reads like Batman on crack.

Batman's already on crack in GM's book. (Yes that's it! ASBAR is totally one of the Batman's many, many hallucinations :p

This reads more like Batman on speed.

I'm unsure where I stand on the swearing thing, was the book acceptable reading for under 13s before we knew what was under the black boxes? Not particularly.

Is the swearing more effective in conveying the character's state of mind when it's under the black bars? Sometimes mystery helps shape a character in the reader's mind, giving away too much information can make them boring.

So I guess I feel indifferent, most of what turns me off of Miller's writing is the stuff he doesn't explicitly spell out.

Anonymous, apparently what they want is for you to be able to tell what word it is by the top of the letters, but still making sure you can’t actually see any of the letters. To achieve that, they have to actually have the words printed before being blacked out

I still don't understand what they gain by waiting til the printing stage to do that. They could have done that in photoshop at any stage before they went to the printer. The letterer could have done that even. It doesn't take a genius to black out letters with a box small enough to read the top or the edges.

Stupid high school shit like this is why I'm so looking forward to the Spirit movie ending Miller's career. It's clear that he's lost his mind along with whatever talent he once had. He and all the other asshats at DC that thought this was ok should be pushed off a cliff along with the retarded babymen that buy it thinking it's "cool".

I posted this on the Newsarama blog, but I might as well say it here too. If DC doesn't believe cursing is appropriate for a Batman comics, then they probably should not have cursing in it at all (bleeped or otherwise).

This is going to make me sound old, but the amount of bleeped out curse-words in superhero comics is getting ridiculous. Take a look at New Avengers, the amount of @#$&^%s in recent issues are distracting. If you're characters are going to cuss, cool, let them cuss. If it's not appropriate for the comic then you should probably think of other words to describe a characters reaction.

You know, I keep hearing the "It's a joke!" defense of the book. I tend to agree that it is one but I think the joke is the one Frank Miller is having on all of us and the industry. It's like he's trying to see how rotten a book he can put out and still be treated as Frank Miller, Comics Visionary. The entire project just reeks of contempt for his employers and his fans.

The thing is...the rest of the book (the whole series, not just this issue) is so offensive in terms of violence and treatment of women, why bother blacking out the "dirty" words at all? There's no possible way that anyone can argue that this book is aimed at kids.

I think it's actually "the yellow, red and green bastard Robin."

He would likely wind up being "that little cocksucker Robin". That sounds more WerthaMilleresque.

I don't buy the whole "It's a joke!" theory. All you have to do is read Sin City to see that Frank MIller has been writing this terribly for years. I think he actually thinks this stuff is clever and good.

"Sweet pieces in sweet slices...tasty sliced booty, the little *&%$"

That's just awful.

I wanted so desperately to hate this book. I refused to buy it, but would glance it in horror at the comic shop. But that last issue showed me what this is-Batman growing up. The reckless, hateful, and mysogonistic perspective of the book is from the POV of a character covering up his own pain and grief, and now having the kid around is forcing him to deal with the truth behind the delusion. As for the fucking Batgirl, Miller already set her up as the slightly censored pottymouth in her first appearance where she repeatedly says "bullshit" with magic marker bars in place.

kapow,

Sorry dude, there is no way you can try to defend Miller's BS writing on this book. In fact you couldn't find a bigger turd if you flew a spaceship up Galactus's black hole looking for one.

All you have to do is read Sin City to see that Frank MIller has been writing this terribly for years.

Thank you. I read this stuff and I can only think of something I said in another thread a few months ago about Miller:

Somewhere in the 1990s, Frank Miller became blunter, angrier and less interesting. I think Sin City is visually dynamic and spectacularly shallow; 300 even more so. And, in spite of a brilliant opening, Dark Knight Strikes Back was so bad it would have be now quarter-binned had it been done by a lesser-known artist.

I find the comics work he’s done over the past 15 years shallow, crass and mean-spirited. All-Star Batman and Robin is just the latest in a long line.

I remember like 5 years ago when this was ish 3, I figured miller's batman would next ish, break down in the cave, have robin comfort him and give them a chance to grieve. instead he made him eat rats 7 months later.

its not often you actually want your money back when you DL'd the thing.

I remember Darwyn cooke calling miller out on shitty work on DKR: he said "he's taking the paycheck and thats fine, but it feels as though hes flipping off fans who were wanting a part 2" I'm paraphrasing.
I can only imagine his horror at the spirit motion picsha.

Seeing the people who dislike this comic slagging off Sin City and TDKSA just encourages me to think that I'll probably enjoy ASB+RTBW when I get around to reading it.

i'm really glad that i haven't picked up any of this comic. i find cursing in mainstream comics low, just like in real life. And it's not like i haven't heard these words before, as i work in a recovery home for teens. i have heard just about every combo of curse words that you can imagine. i just think that putting these kind of words in a comic very low.

Hopefully, when the book is reprinted, they'll remember to put the black bars over the rest of Miller's awful dialogue as well.

I don't think this book is a joke, or a satire, or whatever else people use to defend it. I just think it's fun as hell and just something I enjoy. I would compare Miller to Tarantino in the way that DKR and Pulp Fiction are pure genious, and stuff like ASBARTBW and Death Proof are just for the fans of the genre. I don't need to justify liking this book, I just do, and I'm crushed I have to wait 2 more weeks!

AS Bats is the only Batman title I have ever enjoyed longer than an couple of issues.
I just think he's a horrible character... Took me 3 times to get through Batman Begins w/o falling asleep...
I think I had to smoke an entire 1/8th to get through that animated shitfest...
And the only reason I even spent the time to download the Dark Knight was to see what the fuss was about Heath. He was good. But the movie sucked.
b/c Batman is such a terribly boring character.

But in ASB+RTB Jim Lee's pencils make everything look amazing, and Miller's dialog FINALLY makes Batman amusing and worth reading. I love it.

I desperately wish they'd just put a Mature label on it and be done with it.

mmmmm... just think of the possibilities...

I don't like this series, but the amazing anger directed at it always blows me away.

Pulp Fiction is very far from pure genius.

I agree with you that Miller's stuff is a lot like Tarantino's. Repetitive, predictable, dependent on pastiche, and desperately trying to seem cool.

Miller's worst offense in ASB&R isn't the swearing or the story (though they're pretty bad); it's the fact he PUTS IT OUT WHEN HE FEELS LIKE IT. I mean, seriously, how many years will we have to wait for this to finish? There's where he shows no respect for the fans or DC -and the fact DC puts up with it is just sad.

You know, I keep hearing the “It’s a joke!” defense of the book. I tend to agree that it is one but I think the joke is the one Frank Miller is having on all of us and the industry. It’s like he’s trying to see how rotten a book he can put out and still be treated as Frank Miller, Comics Visionary. The entire project just reeks of contempt for his employers and his fans.

Actually, it reeks of giving fans what they want - an over the top overly violent book about a psychopath, written by him and drawn by Jim Lee.
Everyone had a whinge about Dark Knight Strikes Back, because instead of continuing with Returns path of destruction, he decided to show the Silver Age characters as cool, so this time he's giving people what they thought they wanted.
It reminds me of Thomas Harris' Hannibal in that sense - it was exactly what the public had been saying they wanted - more Hannibal, more disgusting etc - but he gave it to them in a way that showed them they didn't really want it.

That said, I think ASBAR is a hoot of a read.
I waited till it's trade release and it read fine.
I think way too many people have gotten their panties in a bunch over this series.
It's a Miller and Lee Batman book.... did you honestly expect high art?

Seeing the people who dislike this comic slagging off Sin City and TDKSA just encourages me to think that I’ll probably enjoy ASB+RTBW when I get around to reading it.

Most probably.

You'll be reading it and remember the stuff that set everyone off, like 'Goddamn Batman' or his mistreatment of Robin, and you'll just shrug and ask 'really?'.
Most of the complaints people had are addressed in the book (like the chap complaining earlier about Batman telling Robin to eat a rat), and stuff like 'The goddamn Batman' is mocked in the book.
I honestly think most people can't get over their anger at seeing 'their' Batman treated with contempt, to step back and see the book for what it is.

Actually, it reeks of giving fans what they want - an over the top overly violent book about a psychopath, written by him and drawn by Jim Lee. Everyone had a whinge about Dark Knight Strikes Back, because instead of continuing with Return's path of destruction, he decided to show the Silver Age characters as cool, so this time he’s giving people what they thought they wanted.

You might be right, but that doesn't actually provide a defense against 'contempt for the audience.' To my mind, it tends to confirm it.

I didn't actually mind Dark Knight Strikes Again as much as some people, though really I thought THAT one was the one that was a product of Miller thinking that he was "giving fans what they wanted."

Honestly? I can sort of sympathize with him. Some days *I* have contempt for a lot of the superhero audience. (Like, say, when the reaction to the Siegel and Shuster lawsuit was horror that the flow of Superman comics might somehow be interrupted.) But my idea of a good artist is the guy who shakes off the fit of disgust and still tries to put out work that demands better of the audience, instead of pandering to the worst in them. All-Star Batman reads to me like the comics equivalent of a reunion tour of a once-great rock band who's playing all their crowd-pleasers through gritted teeth because they have bills to pay.

I'll grant you I haven't been keeping up; I jumped ship after #3. But nothing I've seen of the scans that have been posted the last couple of days is persuading me to change my mind.

I don't get it, Greg.

How in the Hayull do you get 'contempt for his audience' from this?

It's a different, blatantly goofy version of Bataman, sure.

But I'm missing the logical leaps (and there must be plenty of 'em) that get me from point (A) too "Fanboys are the idiotzors and I hates them, precious."

But Greg, that reunion tour in your analogy sounds like it would be boring. ASBAR is not boring. It's pure energy, even when the characters are just sitting around talking or posing on rooftops. It's Miller indulging his (and Lee's) worst excesses, but that's a lot different than the old band that gets back together to play the old hits through gritted teeth. Those guys aren't having fun. Miller seems to be having a fucking awesome time.

It’s Miller indulging his (and Lee’s) worst excesses, but that’s a lot different than the old band that gets back together to play the old hits through gritted teeth. Those guys aren’t having fun. Miller seems to be having a fucking awesome time.

If you guys are enjoying it, more power to you. But, again, "indulging his worst excesses" to me is saying essentially the same thing as "playing the crowd-pleasers through gritted teeth." It looks more to me like the fun is coming from seeing how naughty they can be, screwing around with the presentation, than from the actual STORY. (This smirky episode with the cussing is just the latest example, as far as I'm concerned.) And that implies to me a certain contempt for the audience, that confidence that this sort of pandering-to-the-worst approach will sell big.

Obviously, your mileage may vary. But to me it's about on a level with the sophomoric humor of putting a whoopie cushion on the teacher's chair. It's frat-boy stuff. All over the net I see this "it's not supposed to be good, that's the joke!" defense and it looks pretty thin to me.

And that implies to me a certain contempt for the audience, that confidence that this sort of pandering-to-the-worst approach will sell big.

I should add that they're not wrong, either. Which I find a bit depressing. But, obviously, I'm in the minority on this assessment judging from sales.

ASBAR's sales have dipped considerably from the first issue... I want to say it's under 100K at this point? Basically the majority of the buyers there for the first issue have dropped by now. So, really, folks still reading it in singles are a distinct, if very vocal, minority.

Now, I don't know how the trades are performing. It's possible the book is connecting with people via bookstores or that there's a very significant wait-for-trade contingent given the erratic shipping schedule of the singles. The latter strikes me as very possible, the former not so much.

It *is* a bit depressing, Greg, but let's face it -- comics fans are no more an exception than anyone else to the sad dictum that "nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." The fact that people happily wallow in insultingly awful crap is their business, of course, but unfortunately I guess they just help ensure that the field will keep being flooded with such sewage.

I'm amused at all these people here who really can't enjoy a hilarious piece of entertainment for what it is.

Or maybe disappointed?

I'm not sure.

I'm sure you harbor the same amusement/disappointment toward those of us who don't appreciate Tom Green's cinematic masterpieces as well. How magnanimous of you.

If nothing else, all this discussion whets my appetite to discover just how good/bad this actually is. Will I feel dirty if I spend money on it? And can we start referring to All-Star Superman as ASS?

I just don't see the funny.

It's like an Adam Sandler movie. They tell me they're jokes, I hear the laugh track, but all I see is a crass attitude and crude behavior.

And dumb.

Lots and lots of dumb.

All-Star Batman reads to me like the comics equivalent of a reunion tour of a once-great rock band who’s playing all their crowd-pleasers through gritted teeth because they have bills to pay.

I see it as two rock stars from different bands forming their own band and having a great time just playing music for the fun of it.

The only gritted teeth are from the 'fans' who can't stand to see 'their' character treated this way - I'm sure there were plenty when Denny O'Neil changed Bats direction, when Miller did it in the 80's etc

Playing crowd pleasers through gritted teeth was Alan Moore writing Wildcats and Spawn in the 90's, and this is much better than that.

It looks more to me like the fun is coming from seeing how naughty they can be, screwing around with the presentation, than from the actual STORY. (This smirky episode with the cussing is just the latest example, as far as I’m concerned.

But that doesn't make sense Greg - no one was up in arms about this before, and they have been censoring swearing like that throughout the book.
It was a printing error which allowed the words underneath to be seen, and a recall was issued.
Where's the smirkiness in it?

Are people honestly upset about a stylistic choice for the dialogue, now that we know there are words under the bars?

All over the net I see this “it’s not supposed to be good, that’s the joke!” defense and it looks pretty thin to me.

Well, it's not a joke, it's just not serious.
It's a fun book.
Treat it like Kill Bill or The Dark Knight. Just sit back and enjoy the ride.

It’s like an Adam Sandler movie. They tell me they’re jokes, I hear the laugh track, but all I see is a crass attitude and crude behavior.

Admittedly the only Adam Sandler films I've seen are The Wedding Singer and 50 First Dates, but neither of those were crass or crude. They were both quite sweet romantic comedies.

I personally think that Miller's deliberately trying to undermime himself with ASB+RTBW. When he hit big, it was because he was prepared to turn comics on their head, change the kind of stories that were told and the way they were told, and fight the establishment stars of the time. Is it a coincidence that he is now a star writer, but he's all of a sudden a godawful writer? Because even if you didn't like it, at the time, and in context, his Batman Year One, Sin City, etc, were all groundbreaking & forward-thinking.