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Did Spider-Man Sleep With a Married Woman?

A recent discussion about Peter Parker’s love life on the blog led to the tangential discussion of a storyline from the late 1970s in Amazing Spider-Man (during Marv Wolfman’s tenure as writer/editor of the book), where Peter Parker’s first girlfriend, Betty Brant, re-entered Peter’s life while she was estranged from her husband, Ned Leeds (Peter was newly single as Mary Jane Watson had just turned down Peter’s first proposal of marriage).

Peter and Betty began seeing each other often, and Betty clearly felt that the two were dating, while Peter was perhaps a bit less clear on that point.

The two came to an agreement of sorts, though, in Amazing Spider-Man #189, where a certain scene took place (the issue was drawn by John Byrne inked by Jim Mooney) (images courtesy of reader Bertrone).

However, what exactly happened there? Obviously, the two began kissing romantically, but did it go past that?

The next page gives us really our only clue…

Bertrone feels that this caption makes it clear that they slept together.

I asked the question of Marvel Executive Editor Tom Brevoort, in a recent chat I did with Brevoort and Amazing Spider-Man Editor Steve Wacker, and Tom had the following response:

No, Peter wouldn’t have slept with Betty while she was married. If he did, we’d be reading about it it huge self-tortured thought balloons for pages.

Well, Peter did, in fact, have many self-tortured thought balloons for many an issue, but Tom is correct to note that none of them ever allude to any sort of sexual indiscretion, which you do think he would make SOME reference to if it happened, no? Even an oblique reference. I think you can easily make the argument that for Peter (Mr. Responsibility) Parker, making out with a married woman at all was cause enough for a great deal of guilt.

That said, the “several hours” line as well as the “discretion” line certainly do sound like they’re leaning the other way….

Stymied, I went to the man who wrote the issue, Marv Wolfman himself, who was nice enough to reply quickly, noting that while he did not recall the exactitude of his intent, from re-reading the scene, he thinks “it sounds like I was just letting the reader decide.”

So, reader, what do you decide?

Thanks to Bertrone for the scans and Marv Wolfman and Tom Brevoort for their insights (be sure to check out Marv’s site here and Tom’s blog here!).

128 Comments

Yes.

Peter so hit that.

Peter so hit that.

Nah, he didn’t. That’s why he was agitated. No relief.

Brian, you’re way off with the title of this post. I very much doubt any “sleeping” was done.

And for a character who has several instances of moral failings in his history, Peter Parker sleeping with a married woman whom he promptly dumps to get MJ back is hardly the worst thing he’s done.

I discount Tom Breevort as he has political motivations beyond just fannish observation. But yeah, I think Peter and Betty definitely had sex in this instance.

Hey, let’s not be hypocritical. What would exactly be the problem if Peter had slept with her? She loved him, he loved her, she was estranged from her husband, he was heartbroken by MJ’s refusal. And Peter was torturing himself over whatever had happened in those several hours, even though the Ethics Code would never let Marv Wolfman say with all the words what exactly happened.

Let’s not forget that, at the time, something like Grant Morrison’s Cyclops saying “No, she kept me up all night” would never be published.

I, for one, prefer to think Petey made a woman happy that night.

I figure the abstinence dam probably burst after all that time he spent not having sex with Gwen Stacy! crf. Sins of the Past.

Oh yeah, he went Paste Pot Pete all over Betty’s Brants.

These comic books were still mostly for kids. So they wouldn’t have put in an explicit (even oblique) reference that would confirm shenanigans. I’d say, reading between the panels, that’s what it seems like.

I wonder if Peter tapped that @$$ in the Bugle’s offices.

As far as I’m concerned, it totally happened otherwise we’d see Pete breaking away from her or something. I never thought of Pete as the uber-virgin he seemed to be in Sins Past

Hmm. I think Brevoort’s probably right, actually. Peter’s debating with himself about whether it would be right to pursue a relationship with Betty while she’s still married. If that’s his attitude, then if he’d actually slept with her, he’d be agonising about whether he’d done the right thing, and beating himself up for leading Betty on when he wasn’t sure about pursuing the relationship himself.

Peter didn’t sleep with her because he’s not like that.

He’d never take advantage of Betty or any woman.

“Peter didn’t sleep with her because he’s not like that.

He’d never take advantage of Betty or any woman”

Dear God, theya adults and adult relationship are not that simple!

She was SEPARATED from Ned, the divorce was just a formality.

So what´s the big deal?

By the way, “he’s not like that”, but he does pacts with the devil…

He not only hit it, he hit it raw I’m sure.

He lives in constant mortal danger from vicious lunatics and megalomaniacs and he stays sexually unsullied? NO way. He had to be having intercourse with someone ONCE in a while.

Of course he didn’t. Sheesh, minds out of the gutter, people.

David M—that image is just so wrong.

=====

Of course he screwed her. Any guy that would make a Deal With The Devil has no morals to start with, so her being married meant nothing to him. She was vulnerable, he gave her solace. “Li’l Webshooter” did.

Naah. I’m sure that was the intention, but I’m pretty sure it didn’t go beyond some heavy making out. This is PETER PARKER we’re talking about. THAT alone would be enough to torture him. :P Other heroes might have crossed the line, but not Peter. Seriously, it would just have demeaned him in the fans’ eyes. Divorce is NOT just a formality in many people’s minds.

Peter should be happy that the caption said two hours later and not ‘an awkward, unfulfilling 15 minutes later’.

Brian frequently sings the praises of ASM #229, the first half of Spider-Man’s big fight with the Juggernaut. Well, it happens that I re-read that issue (which re-introduces Betty to the cast) last night, and things with Pete are pretty awkward. Having recently followed the controversy here, it definitely seemed to qualify as an “oblique reference”.

Regardless, it’s tremendously obvious from the original issue that they slept together. Comics have a certain codewords and the above scene contained about five of them. Hell, even in the real world, in 1977 “dating” pretty much meant f-cking. They weren’t going to sock hops.

And it wasn’t such a big deal. She was separated from her husband. They weren’t sneaking around.

Nope, Peter was a virgin until he married Mary Jane, which he never did. So Peter is still a virgin. Remember kids, you too can regain your virginity and be pure in the eyes of the Lord if you make a deal with the devil.

Not only did he hit that he webbed it shut.

“Spider-man senses a tingling in his archnads.”

If it were Superman we were talking about I would say “hell no,” but as it’s Spidey, my guess is that he did the deed and promised to add it to his guilt schedule later.

Trust me, in NYC, the actual divorce IS just a formality with most folks.

No question in my mind they had sex.
I, however, find it somewhat discouraging that Pete called it “a good break”.
Dude…this isn’t a Kit-Kat bar you’re going on about.
I’m sure Betty didn’t go wandering around saying, “Up until Peter, I never understood what ‘playing pool with a rope’ meant.”
But, if she did…it would give an alternate explanation for it taking “several hours”.

Everything points heavily to Peter having slept with Betty. For one, the CCA wouldn’t have allowed it, and for another, if Peter broke away from Betty without actually having slept with her, we the audience would have seen it. Because then when Ned hauls off and decks our hero in ASM #193, the audience could’ve sympathized, thus adding to the element of tragedy.

(site: http://www.spideykicksbutt.com/WhyYouMaryJane/WhyYouMaryJanePart2.html)

Maybe the reason there weren’t any guilt-laden thought balloons is because he didn’t feel bad about it. Is there one balloon where he just randomly spouts “Man, that was totally worth it!”?

He hit that so hard Ultimate Betty felt it.

I say no. Peter wouldn’t do that. They may have gotten close, but he wouldn’t have sealed the deal.

This page is from a pinup that was done about a year or two later..

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h238/BertoneBeatle/morestuff/osborn/loves.jpg

Take from that what you will.

I say yes.

And I have no problem with that.

The lucky sod!

I’m still undecided, but I’m thinking that it did not happen the way everyone else thinks…had they done it….wouldn’t we have another “Spider-boy/girl” running around the continuum?!? It only takes one time….

Of course he did it. It was the ‘Seventies. Even Batman did it in the ‘Seventies.

Yes, they totally did it.

Personally, I don’t have a problem with it. She was separated, and they’re both adults.

I think it’s reasonable to believe they did it. I’ve been reading some of the Marvel back issues lately and this has all the earmarks of the “code-words” alluded to above, with the narrative caption on the next page giving a sort of wink to the adult reader, while at the same time keeping it well over the heads of impressionable little kids, which I would have been at the time.

Re-reading the old Michelinie Iron Man’s there are many narrative captions like this (although maybe a bit more obvious) that surprised me, because I never made the connection as a younger reader.

Of course, I was so naive I only just discovered what Starfox and She-Hulk did in that throw-away interlude in Avengers 234.

I understand why Marvel editors wouldn’t admit this happened, ’cause it flies in the face of their One More Day rationale of “We can’t have our flagship character getting divorced”, when this would be at least as “scandalous” for lack of a better word.

Those weren’t webbing that Peter was using to swing building to building

This is off-topic but I just saw that as of today the Erie, Pennsylvania, Times-News dropped the “Spider-Man” strip in favor of a single-panel gag-a-day! Please e-mail kevin.cuneo@timesnews.com if you care. I hope this isn’t breaking a rule; if so I apologize.

Annoyed Grunt’s comment is awesome. :)

I’d say if the reader hasn’t hit puberty yet, they didn’t sleep together. If the reader’s above 12… um, yeah, they did. I think it’s kind of cool that Wolfman’s letting the reader decide, even now. As opposed to today, where we know what Norman Osborn’s “O” face looks like.

He hit it.

Mmm. Elizabeth Banks…

Sorry. Never being a huge Spidey fan in the past, at least not enough to know Betty, the movie version’s the first one I noticed!

I think they just made out for a while. Peter is no lothario.

Peter did not hit that, the event was self contained.

however, maybe Mephisto can shed some light on what happened; it is his thing…

He did not have sexual relations with that woman.

He plowed Betty like it was snow season. And good for him. He’s hot radioactive blooded. Check it and see.

Peter’s sex life had been mostly ‘off panel’ until his marriage (with the glaring expection of that power pack child abuse special). But the Black Cat frequently called him ‘lover’ and the two were seen in bed together…in costume. She even laments what a great sexual partner he was in Kevin Smith’s Spidey / Black Cat series. So I don’t buy the whole virgin schtick. As far as I’m concerned he lied to a wife he never had and that’s fine with me.

In as much seriousness as one can have on this topic, he definitely did. The code words, the not-broken kiss, and that’s straight up Peter’s weak-but-whine-about-it dork alley.

The only woman Peter’s ever slept with is Mephisto.

of course they had sex.

i bet he shagged Gwen rotten too…

Yes he did, absolutely. The good boy Peter is an invention of the 80s when all of America suddenly went Puritan with Reagan. Parker wasn’t the parangon Marvel made him later, he could be nasty, he could be a jerk. Not that I think he was a jerk with Betty. He had just been jilted by MJ and here was this good-looking mature woman who loved him. The late 70s Parker is no saint. He’s a New Yorker for God’s sake. The tendency to idealise him is just wrong. We could have added that Ned punches him and Peter reacts like he deserves it. The kiss is clearly consensual. As a comics code book, adultery couldn’t be featured but I don’t see any indication that he didn’t. Everything points to it.

He didn’t sleep with her, he just had sex and left.

<blockquote.The good boy Peter is an invention of the 80s when all of America suddenly went Puritan with Reagan.

You mean the same era that catapulted Puritan-value heroes like Punisher and Wolverine to stardom, along with grim and gritty comics? Geez, are there any ills out there you people can’t blame Republicans for?

that’s straight up Peter’s weak-but-whine-about-it dork alley.

You think Peter’s weak? I think he’s probably has more inner strength than any other hero, at least every hero at DC and most of Marvel with possible exception of Captain America.

It never happened. Nothing of the sort eludes to him doing anything of the kind. All it was was a kiss.

I think he did it, but definitely had some guilt about the circumstances… Even golden boys hit and quit it…

Oh, yeah! He definitely introduced her to the web-shooter in his pants. Then he went to the bathroom and web-slung his ass outta there, leaving Betty feeling cheap and used.

Dear T.
Actually Wolverine and Punisher are the moral equivalents of contras, er I mean of our founding fathers. You know, they’re representative of the era with the strong stick.
But it wasn’t a statement about Republicans just about Reagan and the setback that happened to America then. I have nothing against Republicans. The fact that Nixon was a crook, Ford an idiot, Reagan a fake, Bush a liar and Bush II a crrok, an idiot, a fake, a liar and a wino has nothing to do with them being Republicans. Carter was a goody-two shoes and Clinton a philanderer but that had nothing to do with them being Democrats.

I’m just glad Betty didn’t get knocked up by the Vulture….

So if Peter was supposed to be a virgin until he got married… he’s still a virgin….
Well, I don’t think he and the Black Cat were just kissing. That was one hot kitty.

Tom Brevoort is an idiot. Peter did her six ways to Sunday during those “several hours.” This was the 70s!

Peter had sex for the first time with MJ on their weddingnight..wait, what weddingnight.

Poor Pete!

Comic books from the 70′s & 80′s seemed a lot more edgier than they are now without being so obvious. Older X-Men and Spider-Man books dealt with a lot of mature themes without being overt. Things happened off-panel and while the writers often told us what happened off panel – sometimes things were left to our imagination and stories were not spelled out for us completely. I like some things left open to our imaginations and whether Peter slept with Betty or not (I think he did!)… I don’t think any less of his character.

Hey, Betty Brant has always upheld the bonds of holy matrimony! Well, except for the time back in the ’90s she had an affair with the quite married Robbie Robertson.

Tom Brevoort is an idiot. Peter did her six ways to Sunday during those “several hours.” This was the 70s!

This was pre-AIDS epidemic New York City. Not only did Peter and Betty get it on, but they probably invited half of the people that they met at the disco the week before.

The whole joke about this is that it isn’t a big deal for anyone except those who vehemently deny that Peter Parker would ever do such a thing. I’m sure Bruce Wayne/Batman never slept with Catwoman, Talia, Silver St. Cloud, Vicki Vale, Vesper Fairchild, Jezebel Jett, and so on.

But Superman told had his way with Lori Lermaris’ mermaid tail. Hey, a pun!

Betty had an affair with Robbie..!! I knew I quit Spider-man too early in the 90s…

And jedimind_rick, I second that emotion.

@Jason McNamara:
“Peter’s sex life had been mostly ‘off panel’ until his marriage (with the glaring expection of that power pack child abuse special). ”

Boy, that sounds way more sordid than that Peter/Betty kiss, doesn’t it?

And, am I the only one picturing Betty going: ” We! Were! On! A! BREAK! ” to Ned?

He so tagged it.

go pete go.

Peter Rasputin shagged two women at the same time in the Savage Land, one was Nereel (sp?), all off panel. Guess when Betty shows up with Peter Parker’s ten year old son then we’ll know for sure.

He probably tried to get it up for half an hour, then cried in Betty’s lap for 90 minutes. Just like his first “encounters” with every woman he’s ever met.

If not, and he did plow that (lord knows I would’ve given the same circumstances), there’s a serious market here for an “Untold Tales of Spider-Man” issue…

Betty Brandt was an older woman. She was a cougar-in-training. She had older woman needs. She wasn’t playing around. She drained Pete of every ounce of vital fluid. She broke Pete in, and then he broke several lucky ladies in, himself. Wrap your heads around it, folks! Peter Parker is spelled G-I-G-O-L-O!! It’s why he gets along so well with Matt Murdock.

(A) There’s no meaningful evidence either way and (B) who cares? It doesn’t say anything of substance about either one of them if they did, really.

Okay, I tried to hold it in, because who wants to be the thread prude, but I just can’t take it anymore: Is no one else at least mildly horrified at the frat boy attitude towards women, sex and marriage that characterizes the overwhelming majority of comments in this thread?

Also, minor point, but Peter and Betty are the same age.

Since Elizabeth Banks has already been mentioned here, someone send this thread along to Sam Raimi so Betty can get more to do in Spidey4. Dunst seems to be fed-up with the series so here’s the new romantic conflict.

It seems perfectly obvious to me that Peter slept with Betty in this issue. I don’t see why it’s such a big deal, frankly.

I’m sure he did. From the bold lettering on “I DESERVE a break every now and then” emphasizes a little afternoon delight. I’m sure he did the deed, shot his load into a Dixie cup and went on to fight The Rhino for the 45th time.

Brian frequently sings the praises of ASM #229, the first half of Spider-Man’s big fight with the Juggernaut. Well, it happens that I re-read that issue (which re-introduces Betty to the cast) last night, and things with Pete are pretty awkward. Having recently followed the controversy here, it definitely seemed to qualify as an “oblique reference”.

Things were awkward because of what Peter did a few issues later, when Ned comes to win Betty back, but Betty says something along the lines of “No, I’m with Peter now,” and Peter says something along the lines of, “Get away from me, you crazy broad,” in an attempt to be a good guy (not a well-thought-out attempt, but an attempt) and send her back to her husband.

As you might imagine, such a display of insensitivity (even with good motives) made for some awkward interactions between the two for some time (this is not to say, of course, that they did not also sleep with each other then, just that the awkwardness between the two is not a clear indication of it happening).

..

Oh, yeah….he worked it out.

THERE’S a phrase open to interpretation.

..

Betty was probably his first sexual experience way back in the Ditko days. And no one can convince me that Pete and Gwen didn’t have a mature relationship. Any canoodling with Betty later was very probably a comfort thing which Pete (even if reluctantly) agreed to.

“Betty Brandt was an older woman. She was a cougar-in-training. She had older woman needs. She wasn’t playing around.”

Actually, Stan Lee made it clear early on that Betty is a bit younger than Peter. She’s a high school dropout, hence she was a working girl when Pete met her.

As for the question at hand: of course he did!

I didn’t think they slept together when I first read it when it came out, and I still don’t think so now. I think that they talked a lot, and Peter made some lame excuse that he had to get going.

I just don’t see him messing around with a married woman.

He hit it. Wait for “Sins Past Part Deux.”

“Okay, I tried to hold it in, because who wants to be the thread prude, but I just can’t take it anymore: Is no one else at least mildly horrified at the frat boy attitude towards women, sex and marriage that characterizes the overwhelming majority of comments in this thread?”

I think I’m more horrified by the people who think sex is dirty and wrong and people who have it are evil and I can’t hear you lalalalala!

He didn’t mess around with a married woman. that would be immoral. In fact, going by the evidence presented on page, he never had sex with Betty, Gwen, or MJ.

Instead, he took his frustrations to a local prostitute off panel. No wonder the dude was always short on cash.

“I think I’m more horrified by the people who think sex is dirty and wrong and people who have it are evil and I can’t hear you lalalalala!”

Yeah, because that’s totally what I’m saying, and there are only two options here anyway, Puritan or frat boy.

Even if he did they’ll have The Beyonder come back from the dead specifically to retcon it.

Or maybe having sex with a married woman is ok as long as it’s not Pete who’s married to her.

I would like to suggest a new “Oh my God they totally just did it” feature on this blog, with each entry featuring a bronze-age off-panel encounter like this one. We’ve already got potential entries for X-men, Avengers, Iron Man (and Batman?) mentioned on this thread, what others are there?

The scenes don’t necessarily have to be ambiguous or debatable like this Spidey one. But they can definitely be unsettling (e.g. brainwashed Thor lying naked with smug Moondragon circa Avengers 220, Shooter’s last issue).

Even as a kid I was creeped out by that one.

It’s Marv Wolfman. They totally did it.

So I fucked her what of it?

“i bet he shagged Gwen rotten too…”

Undoubtedly. That is why she sought out a real man in Norman Osborne.

FunkyGreenJerusalem

September 29, 2008 at 6:55 pm

Let’s not forget that, at the time, something like Grant Morrison’s Cyclops saying “No, she kept me up all night” would never be published.

And let’s not forget, I’m pretty sure there’s mention that Cyclops and White Queen didn’t have physical relations that night.

“Tom Brevoort is an idiot.”

QFT

I think the important thing (which is also quite neat) is that it’s so open to interpretation, like Wolfman says. Think of it how you will. If you’re a kid reading it, you probably won’t get it.

I mean, I know when I was a kid I didn’t get it when comics talked about sex a whole lot more obviously than this. Did anyone else read New Warriors #26? Yeah, when I first read that, I didn’t have the first clue Firestar and Marvel Boy were talking (and in a rather obvious way, in hindsight) about pre-marital sex, and I wasn’t really that young either, I was probably 12 or 13. No clue what was going on. I didn’t get it in the old Iron Man comics, either, when Tony Stark would come on panel putting his pants on or whatever with a half-naked chick in his bed. I think maybe when I was a young comic reader I was kinda dense.

At this point you kinda wish the subject would be approached in a more adult and responsible fashion than it is in a lot of comics today. Not, like, showing Peter and Betty having a long discussion about whether to use a condom or not, or Peter web-swinging away with a bounce in his, er, swing thinking “damn, that Betty’s got a sweet rack, I f***ing WRECKED that chick, I gotta tell Flash.” It would just be cool if you were writing a Spider-Man comic now and he could have a healthy, mature, adult, sexual relationship with a woman and it was shown as not a big deal, because it’s really not.

The content of these posts doesn’t worry me on one extreme or the other so much as the sheer number of them.

People who say that the amount of sex in comics is just an attempt to validate the genre by making it more adult have just been disproved. Cause apparently lots and lots of people genuinely care about the sex lives of their superheroes.

There was a Superman story back in the ’70′s which pretty blatantly implied that a depowered Clark spent the night with Lois. I believe it was written bt Elliot S! Maggin. So if Supes can find his way out of his tights, so can Spidey.

This page is from a pinup that was done about a year or two later..

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h238/BertoneBeatle/morestuff/osborn/loves.jpg

Take from that what you will.

I don’t think Betty’s innuendo on that page is quite obvious enough. Maybe if she showed us pictures . . .

The sad thing is, that it doesn’t really matter what Spider-man does now because the worst person in the world. Was this the person I was reading all those years, a pathetic loser who doesn’t deserve my attention.

I don’t understand why people even care what happens in Spider-man books anymore.

I think the evidence that the two got to know each other in the Biblical sense is fairly heavily stacked. Aside from the so-called “code words” on the next page, there’s the scan someone linked to above (http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h238/BertoneBeatle/morestuff/osborn/loves.jpg), and then there’s the claim made on this site about the issue after the one with the kiss:

http://www.spideykicksbutt.com/WhyYouMaryJane/WhyYouMaryJanePart2.html

But then that pesky “Julio Barone” whom I mentioned in Part 1 told me to take a closer look at a couple of panels in issue #190. Betty and Peter are both looking a bit forlorne in the first – and then as Spidey is swinging away in the second, there is a reference to keeping what happened between the two panels private -remember – this was the 1970′s and comics were still not as open about sexual issues as they are now. So, there’s not much doubt about what happened. Two lonely people, who previously had a relationship (though not sexual at that time), and now devasted by recent failed relationships with other people, turn to each other one night.

Really, though, much more interesting to me than whether Peter had sex with what is likely one of many sexual partners he’s had in his lifetime is how much some folks seem to be wrapped up in whether he and Betty did perform coitus.

I’m kind of surprised to see this among a group of what are presumably adult men and women. In my experience, sex — and who’s having it and when — is the biggest deal in the world until you’ve actually had it yourself.

There was a Superman story back in the ’70’s which pretty blatantly implied that a depowered Clark spent the night with Lois. I believe it was written bt Elliot S! Maggin. So if Supes can find his way out of his tights, so can Spidey.

Here’s the link to that page. It’s definitely less blatant than Peter Parker/Betty Brandt, but who knows what Maggin/Bates intended…

http://superman.nu/esm/lois.php

It just seems so out of character for Peter to have done that. And if he had,there would have been a lot of anguish on his part.
About there relation/friendship.
Peter’s the kind of guy who worried way too much. And involving himself sexually with Betty,would have been a great springboard for pathos.
But it was the 70′s.
And who knows Betty might have been better to handle it better than Pete.

1.) I really like that Wolfman left that sort of open-endedness into the story (if only to get around the Comics Code). I wish more stories would do that nowadays.

2.) I, personally, choose to believe that it did indeed happen, because it’s more dramatic that way (and, while I am a big proponent of the Peter/MJ marriage, I’ve never been so naive as to think that MJ is the only girl for Pete nor that she was the only woman he’s possibly slept with).

But before this “incident” Peter slept with someone else? Because if this was his first time, I think that he would be more agitated “several hours after” after…

I think he definitely did, yes. Even leaving out the whole ‘deal with the devil’ thing, Peter has always been more defined by his TRYING to do the right thing than by his succeeding in doing so all the time. He makes mistakes, messes up and then later regrets his actions.

He’s not some heroic paragon of virtue and he never has been.

if peter slept with betty
mary jane should also sleep with jughead.

“He’s not some heroic paragon of virtue and he never has been.”

If by “heroic paragon of virtue” you mean puritanical head-case, then I agree with you. However, if by “heroic paragon of virtue”, you mean someone who would give you the shirt off his back, leap into danger to save a stranger, or a humble, giving martyr, then I disagree with you.

Pete’s always been one of the greatest guys in the world. What he does between the sheets with another consenting adult doesn’t diminish his heroics or make him any less a paragon of virtue.

Wolfman wrote it just right – the adults can think Petey got his lil’ webshooter wet, and the kids can assume they stayed up late talking, if they even read the captions at all.
This whole “controversy” is really silly. You guys worry about wether a fictional character got some tail. Me, I’m worried about ME getting some.

wow. all this discussion over spider-man’s sex life. no wonder people think comic book fans are total geeks. losers even. come on, who cares. and according to some of the comments, it’s seems kinda obvious that there really are a lot of sexually frustrated Spidey fans out there. lol. wow. i soo have to go

I agree that peoplo who care so much about Spider-Man sex life in are a bit silly.

But you know what is even more silly and pathetic?

People who post in the Internet to complain about people who care about Spider-Man’s sex life. :p

At the end of spidy 122,after both Gwen & the goblen bit the dust. the book ends with MJ shutting the door,to stay the night with him. Always felt that they did a lot more then just spend it talking! If he never made it with Gwen, then that was where he at last bacame a true spider-man.

This discussion generates interest because it opposes two visions of this character, the “everyman of superheroes”. Some have an idealised version that he couldn’t do anything wrong. I suppose most would be Republicans.They object to a deal with Mephisto to save his aunt, they object to sex with a married woman. For the others, they know that even the best people are fallible. It’s the true meaning of Peter Parker, he’s not the greatest hero next to Captain America, but someone who idealises such heroes not knowing that such saints are mostly a fantasy, a myth. But myths shape our view of the world and that’s why we believe in them. They make order in a random universe, they provide meaning. Those who protest the cracks in their favorite myths are afraid to face up the world as it is. They can’t conciliate a hero they admire with behavior they personally reprove so they deny the reprovable act rather than the hero. They probably also believe in “evil” as a true force.

[...] ruining the simple joys of junk-culture might join me in making a yuck face whenever today’s fans decide to go over some narrative from 30 years ago in that same, relentless, bordering-on-miserable fashion. * this DC panel report by Tucker Stone [...]

Meh, seen enough High School stuff like this to know when nobody does it. Peter and MJ had implied sex way before this (Clone Saga 1), and had more heavily detailed sexual experiances afterwards.

People will beleive what they want to beleive. I’ll take Tom’s stance over this and “The marraige never happened” anyday from the Spidey Hack-Trust.

As a man who just had his heart broken by the woman he proposed to and with Betty being seperated from her husband, it’s entirely possible that the two shared more than just a kiss. However, I can see Peter not giving in and pulling away from Betty, telling her that they need to slow things down a bit.

I am amused by this whole Spider-Man is a virgin deal. I mean, come on. That cat was surrounded by attractive women and he was a photographer in NYC for a major newspaper. Hard to be a virgin in those circustances.

And when did virginity get to be such a big deal for guys anway? I can understand wanting Gwen Stacy or Mary Jane to be virgins, but Pete? Who roots for the hero to be a virgin?

If comic books are about living vicariously through the hero, I don’t want no hero of mine to be a virgin. Especially if in real life I’m a socially awkward, shy kind of guy who doesn’t get the girl.

Me? I want my hero to do what I would do if I was in the hero’s shoes. If I was Spidey , I’d have a social life. And a girlfriend. Maybe two.

“It’s Marv Wolfman. They totally did it.”

You bet, New Teen Titans was full of sexual innuendo.

“At the end of spidy 122,after both Gwen & the goblen bit the dust. the book ends with MJ shutting the door,to stay the night with him. Always felt that they did a lot more then just spend it talking! If he never made it with Gwen, then that was where he at last bacame a true spider-man.”

Seriously? That event was more about MJ growing as a person than anything (maybe you recall that she shuts the door after Pete blasts her for being nothing more than a party girl).

And, also, y’know, his girlfriend was just murdered. But of course, two people of opposite genders spending time together must always be about sex, right?

I guess it depends on how you interpret the story line. Comes down to it … use your imagination as the author wanted you to.!!!

[...] Jump to Comments With all the news about Spiderman 4 flying around, I thought I’d share this interesting post from “Comics Should Be [...]

This discussion generates interest because it opposes two visions of this character, the “everyman of superheroes”. Some have an idealised version that he couldn’t do anything wrong. I suppose most would be Republicans.They object to a deal with Mephisto to save his aunt, they object to sex with a married woman.

Wait, wait, wait… is this Marc Guggenheim?

“If you are anti-Spider-Man premarital sex with a married woman, you MUST be Republican.”
“If you are anti-deal-with-the-devil-to-save-your-dying-aunt, you MUST be Republican.”

Please! Try to keep political stereotypes (especially badly thought-out ones) out of already pointless discussions about a thirty-year old comic books.

The Nubian Superman

October 1, 2008 at 12:40 pm

There was a storyline that ran for several issues of PETER PARKER: THE SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN which introduced the serial killer “Sin-Eater”. The Sin-Eater had already murdered several people, and it seemed Betty was in imminent danger of becoming his latest victim.I seem to recall Spidey rushing to the rescue, and having a random thought of how much Betty meant to him, and unless I’m mistaken, he made some sort of internal comment about how Betty was his first instance of “mature love” or somesuch…I no longer have that issue, but if someone else does and can provide some visual aid, it’d be appreciated.

Heh heh. I also remember that line from SPIDER-MAN 3, where Betty and Pete are all up in each other’s grill, and J. Jonah Jameson says “Miss Brant! That’s not the position I hired you for!”

“And when did virginity get to be such a big deal for guys anway? I can understand wanting Gwen Stacy or Mary Jane to be virgins, but Pete? Who roots for the hero to be a virgin?”

Ninja Bob, I think virginity shouldn’t be a big deal for GIRLS either.

Damned double standards. Damned puritanism.

Rene, I agree. I’ve never been a fan of the double standard. In my personal life, I’ve always followed my dad’s advice and I don’t judge women by those puritanical standards. Her past is her business. Truth be told, you don’t wanna know. lol

If she’s cool and we like each other, that’s all that matters.

If you think Spider-Man would not make sex with a lady, then you probably also believe Wolverine’s been saying, “Go to blazes” all these years. Comics are not for children anymore, so it’s safe for us to stop pretending that these cutesy little child-friendly workarounds weren’t knowing winks to adults.

i think not….he’s just not that kind of guy….it’s just not something peter parker would do..i really dont care about his sex life…but if i just think for a second about his character….i hav eto say no

[...] that I think about it, I’m wondering if this retroactively closes the door on that brief did-he-do-it-with-Betty-Brant debate [...]

I know I’m commenting late but I want to believe Spiderman was a virgin until he was married , BND says he lived with mary jane , he got drunk and had sex with his roommate , and when black cat returns she makes a comment about how he was “good in the sack” yes those are the words she uses.

[...] 22. Why the hell is the internet suddenly bothered about whether or not Peter Parker slept with Betty Brant thirty years ago? [...]

Aside from Betty Brant(who still has romantic feelings for Peter Parker), I feel that it’s time for Liz Allan to have her time with him. Peter has never been in a relationship with a single parent. And Liz Allan’s feelings for Peter has been kept under that radar for too long. It;s time for those two to realize their feelings for one another and begin a relationship that would be as strong as it was when he was with Mary Jane.

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