I’d say that a book like Justice League of America or the Avengers should primarily about “super-hero theatrics.” If the writer is skilled enough to weave some other themes into the big hero / villain fight, cool. If not, he/she shouldn’t try. In short, don’t write “important” at the expense of fun.

Part of my anger is directed at all these “important” stories like Civil War and Identity Crisis. My reasoning is thus; if I read a bad story about a battle between Dr. Doom and the Fantastic Four, I’m bummed for the length of that comic. But, I figure, maybe next month I’ll read a good story about a battle between Blastaar and the FF.

OTOH if I read a bad “important” story about Hal Jordan going nuts and killing a whole lot of people, I’ve got that crapt staring me in the face for years.

Mainstream superhero readers still have plenty of titles to choose from – Amazing Spider-Man and Trinity both come to mind, or for that matter the present Justice League of America.

Captain America’s always been a more classical superhero book, except when Steranko wrote it and it became an espionage thriller that appeals more to adults; it reverted to being a normal superhero book again, most of the time, for the next 30 years, until Brubaker went back to the Steranko style. And someday it’ll probably become a superhero book again.

The Avengers were an extremely straightforward superhero book, for a long, long time, and Bendis is the only one that’s tried to do the adult thing with it in many, many years… actually he may be the first ever, with that particular title. It was probably one of the last titles left that had never really got a dose of that whole post-Watchmen “What would these heroes be like if they had real, adult emotions and failings and so forth?,” whereas the Justice League had gotten it right away.

I do think the Anengers book(s) needed some grounding in a healthy dose of reality, and the characters merit some exploration as humans. And I’m not even a huge fan of Bendis’ Avengers. I think he demystifies the characters far TOO much, to the point that they’re not even heroes anymore half the time, and I don’t think he pays enough attention to who the characters are before he gets his hands on them (only whom he wants them to become)… but it was still about time we saw an Avengers run that wasn’t all superhero theatrics.

Quite frankly, when it comes to mainstream super-hero titles like the Avengers or the Justice League of America, that is precisely what I want. That’s not to say comics can’t evolve or that super-hero comics can’t explore other themes and stories. I just don’t think that evolution or exploration should take place in mainstream super-hero titles.

Another cliche of mine: Just because I grew up doesn’t mean Superman has to grow up.

Dr. Strange has also frequently failed to succeed in solos.

So you think Slott’ll be more like say the 70′s to 90′s?

So, I thought it was cool that they weren’t just a collection of the biggest guns in the Marvel U. They seemed to have some organizing principle that excluded Spidey and Wolverine. It made a group like the Defenders possible, since there were lots of second-tier Marvel characters that weren’t able to carry solo titles, weren’t going live in the X-Mansion and didn’t fit on the Avengers.

As the revolving door kept spinning, that line blurred more and more. I just lost interest in the Avengers.

The fact that they tossed Spidey and Wolverine into the group didn’t shock me. Morrison’s Big Gun version of the JLA was a huge hit and Marvel was bound to try it sooner or later. I’m sure a lot of people like it. It just doesn’t seem like the Avengers to me.

If they wanted to put an X-man on the Avengers and have it not be Beast I’d rather it be Storm or Iceman. Or hell maybe when Jean comes back she should move away from the X.

And for God’s sake, keep Wolverine in the X-ghetto where he freakin’ belongs! Spider-man can take a hike, too!

And i say it again, I am all that is wrong with comics’ fandom!

I’m not opposed to having membership shakeups or offbeat choices on the team, but it doesn’t make ANY sense to me to have Wolverine, Luke Cage and Spider-Man as Avengers (especially when Wolverine is still an X-Man).

Or rather, I could, if only he didn’t have just as good opportunities as a member of so many other teams. Besides, he gave up on that fairly quickly, didn’t he? He’s now an X-Force member for crying out loud…

More to the point, he is not supposed to fit into the Avengers. And he doesn’t.

One comment here said Avengers was all about light upbeat soap-opera. Avengers has been a terrible book when it was focused on that stuff (not the occasional story, but when that was the focus). One of the reasons the book needed a drastic reboot like Disassembled was because it was all navel-gazing light soap opera.

What they should really be doing, to preserve the “let’s beat up a giant menace” feel, is creating some new ubervillains. The old ones have all been worked into Annihilation, big events and single character books, so it’s hard to work with them. So it would be an exercise in creativity on Marvel’s part to see if they can create a new menace who is original, untied from continuity, and reusable, and that can give the Avengers a real mission.

Bendis’ Avengers had a shaky start, but it was at least a book where things happened that were interesting and entertaining. And since Civil War split the team in two, one the Rebellion and the other the Evil Empire, the franchise has finally gained a conceptual purpose beyond ” generic super-team “.

Marvel would be foolish to regress to the old model of the Avengers being a clique of stereotypical do-gooders that hangs out in Tony’s mansion club-house.

Another thing, what is this “Dark Avengers” bullshit? What’s next, LESSER-SPOTTED AVENGERS? AVENGERS IN LOVE?

They were two different team books, telling different sides of the superhero world. When I was a teenager and thought rebels were cool I was X-Men all the way. Then I stopped reading comics. When I got back into comics I gravitated to the Avengers and have ended up collecting in one form or another a complete set of Avengers comics. I love um. I think the reason is I’m older and now rebels aren’t as cool to me as the rebels are the kids coursing trouble in my college library. I’ve learnt that life is about compromise and sometimes having to make the tough uncool choices.

Now I’m not saying the ‘classic’ Avengers is mature book – that’d be bunkum, it’s a silly fun Superhero book I happen to really like – but its just the book that appeals to my older more conservative self (with a small c a small c not the Tories for those that follow UK politics – heaven forbid I every become Conservative… I’m getting off track) as it touches on the more conformist world my life now sits in.

For me the New Avengers are just another bunch of cool rebel heroes. Even before Civil War they just didn’t have the same feel to them. After Civil War, well I didn’t recognise them at all as the heroes I used to love. I’ve stuck with it as I enjoy some of the stories and I’ve hoped that Bendis would turn things around. He hasn’t and post Secret Invasion I’ll make a decision about whether enough is enough.

Yes the Mighty Avengers seems to be set up to be the old skool Avengers BUT the post Civil War set up just hasn’t worked. I had enough of the two team getting to together for something or other and then Ms Marvel having to tell everyone – nah we’ll not arrest them for reasons x, y and z. Stop it already. So again with Mighty Avengers I’ll wait until after Secret Invasion and see how it’s going.

The Avengers titles just feels like a brand that happens to be written by the most popular writer of the minute and to heck with what it used to mean. It feels to me a bit like putting Coke in a 7up bottle but still expecting people to believe its 7up cos the labels the same.

That said alas it doesn’t matter what I think as while its doing so well and ‘fun’ comics aren’t, good luck to them and maybe its not a bad thing that old skool people like me are being left behind. I have my back issues and maybe the industry needs some new blood.