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10/25 – Curious Cat Asks…

So far, which of the big two events do you think is better – Final Crisis or Secret Invasion?

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70 Comments

Final Crisis, if only because it’s something different and Morrison has a lot more good will stored with me than Bendis does, which is another way of saying I trust him more to make it an overall more satisfying story.

I haven’t really been reading either, so I won’t make a quality judgment, but based solely on hearsay, it sounds like I’d enjoy Final Crisis more.

Some of the SI tie-ins have been fun, though.

Final Crisis has been just plain awful from the start, and issue #4 is the worst yet. Ill-conceived, poorly-written, and the art slows down the ponderous story even more. Gah. It wasn’t long ago that this story would have been told in one, maybe two, issue. Heck, Alan Moore could probably tell this story in about three pages.

I’m not buying Secret Invasion, mainly because I hated Civil War so much that it turned me off of nearly every mainstream Marvel comic (though I am reading the space comics like Nova and Guardians of the Galaxy, which are great). But I’ve been thumbing through it in the store and it seems a little better than Final Crisis, although still pretty nonsensical.

For me, Final Crisis. Morrison is my favorite writer in the industry, so i’m very very biased. That said, i like SI as well, but in a different way.

Final Crisis feels a bit more down to earth for me, even with how positively out there it is… i find myself more interested in the emotions and thoughts of the characters, feeling the emotional resonance as the story explores the nature of the human (and i guess alien) soul.

SI is much more a super hero tale, and is good in it’s own right. I do NOT read the tie ins, but the mini itself has been fun. As a fan of the artist (dating back to birthright) and a fan of the Bendis penned spidey, it’s pretty fun.

FC has lacked on art here and there. SI has the worst dialogue i’ve seen from a big event in awhile. Every character reads like a twelve year old playing super hero in the backyard, cept Spidey, who Bendis for some reason gets.

All told, I’d say Secret Invasion. It certainly has its faults, and its value would be greatly diminished by not reading both Bendis Avengers titles at the same time, but all told it’s at least a fun, if not incredible story. Whereas Final Crisis feels like things just happen with nothing actually HAPPENING, and it’s just a big, obtuse ball of “find the significance so the writer doesn’t have to!” But then again, it’s so slow and so little’s going on, that maybe it’ll get better.

Bottom line, to me, is that neither one is living up to their potential, but both have some great moments in there. I just personally prefer great moments in a so-so but understandable story rather than great moments in a so-so but purposefully obtuse.

“Heck, Alan Moore could probably tell this story in about three pages.”
Damn straight!

Final Crisis:

I’m not over the moon with either but FC wins on account of Darkseid’s slightly more inspired plan of bending Earth’s population to his will using a mathematical formula proving his dominance over SI’s………well…….do the Skrull’s have a plan? Let’s turn Jan into a weapon? He Loves You?

I thought SI had the better premise but when it turned out that all those people in the rocket were just Skrulls then it descended into the soil pipe. FC has the weaker premise (Grant’s Greatest Hit Rock of Ages again, but with added irrelevant tie-ins courtesy of DC Editorial) but Morrison, amongst the clutter, has some lovely ideas and characterisation (I see a general field of the blogs I read are overwhelmed with God of Comics writing of Green Arrow: He’s not a liberal loudmouth twat, he’s a very naughty boy/competent hero with a deep love for Black Canary) SI on the other hand just has masses and masses of clutter.

Well done Marvel. You are more grounded in real world heroism. Where no one has a clue and everyone’s answer to a problem is ‘Hit Something’ (See Sunderland vs Newcastle derby, today)

Final Crisis is the better story. Secret Invasion is the better “event.”

From a business standard, an arthouse event, completely disjointed from the main books and with a promise drenched in nostalgia and hard to pin down synopsis was apparently the single last thing DC needed right now, but hey, this is Comics Should Be Good and not the sales analysis of the beat, so yeah, sure. Final Crisis is much better.

Outside of Rogues’ Revenge and Legion of 3 Worlds, I don’t care for anything FC related. It’s kinda lost my interest. I have been enjoying Secret Invasion personally.

As an event, I’d say Secret Invasion is working better for me, espcially as a crossover. Most of the one-shots and miniseries releated to it (that I’ve read) have been surpisingly good and it’s had tie-ins, also mostly good, with lots of different series. The Final Crisis one-shots and minis have run the gamut of quality (to be fair, I’ve read a larger percentage of the FC specials than the SI ones – mostly because the SI ones tend to sell out faster – and the SI ones I haven’t read could all be crap) and the only references I’ve seen to it in the regular series have been the Dark Side club popping up in several books (and to be honest, I still don’t see how making teenage heroes fight each other fits into the overall scheme of FC) and a villian in Infinity Inc. turning out to be DeSaad’s reincarnation. Basically, SI has been treated like “the big thing” currently going on in the Marvel Univers, while FC feels like it’s taking place in a bubble all to itself – complete with the company admitting that it doesn’t fit in with the contiuity of other books.

On the other hand, as an individual miniseries, the actal FC book has been more entertaining than the SI one. I’m enjoying them both overall, but if I have to choose, I’ll take things happening too fast and being confusing because we haven’t seen all the pieces yet than things happening too slowly and being confusing because we’ve seen so many pieces that it’s hard to fit them all together (seriously, try to sort out the order in which the all the various groups and individuals arrive to fight the main invasion in New York. At one point Ms. Marvel was fighting them alone – but she was in Antarctica when the attack started!).

Final Crisis. It actually has a competent villain. I’m sorry if you don’t get to see any fights, but that’s because the villain has been competent enough to avoid needing to fight.

Secret Invasion only works if you
a. accept that the Skrulls both are a threat and are completely incompetent at the same time (seriously, give me the Skrull empire as shown SI and a week, and I would have conquered Earth 616 with maybe a half dozen Skrull casualties.)
b. have such low expectations that a not particularly inspired fight involving a bunch splash pages makes you happy

I read the first issue of both series. I didn’t buy any issues of Secret Invasion. I’ve bought every issue of Final Crisis the days they came out. I can’t compare them, as I haven’t read any more of Secret Invasion, but Final Crisis has been enjoyable.

Final Invasion. No, wait. Secret Crisis. Final Secret? Crisis Invasion? I can’t decide. Though it would seem Secret Crisis would suck as a superhero comic but could possibly be a good romance comic:)

Final crisis. I was excited for si, but it just seems bendis could have done better.

I’ve had a bad history with Marvel crossovers. Loathed House of M. Disliked Civil War. Secret Invasion is actually kind of neat, but it seems like all variations of a theme. I respect Final Crisis, but don’t like it very much. To be honest, JG Jones’ art is not very conducive to comic reading. Add that to Morrison’s level of abstract writing and it’s hard to read. Still buying both to the end though, they’re decent readings.

Final Crisis is way better. Secret Invasion started with a great concept, but it seems to have spent months going nowhere, with a huge amount of unnecessary side stories and background doing little to advance the story, and the hugely scary antagonists early in the story have become weak punching bags as they big battle came. With all this planning and all these secret capabilities, couldn’t the Skrulls have already overtaken all of us? Why the need for this big confrontation? Why didn’t they already take complete control? Feh.

Whereas Final Crisis has gotten creepier and scarier as each new step has been revealed.

I’m not sure Bendis could have done better. I think it’s a better event than Secret War or House of M. I think this is just about as good as he can do when it comes to something so far away from what he does best. I think his decision to alternate settings between issues was ballsy but ultimately didn’t work in a monthly sense. It would have REALLY disrupted the book if they had delays so they’re lucky they didn’t.

Secret Invasion by miles.

It’s not like SI is a particularly great comic or anything, but the only remotely interesting parts of Final Crisis have been the Darkseid and Mister Miracle segments, whereas the rest has just been a parade of stunningly dull, disconnected vignettes with a bunch of B-C list DC characters reacting to apparently earth-shattering events that are never shown and probably will never be shown. Every major plot point of consequence has occurred off-panel, and none of what happens on-panel has cohered into anything resembling an interesting story at this point.

I read Grant Morrison comics because I want the huge, daring ideas that I know he’s capable of. The few snippets of New Gods-related material have been the only time this approaches what Morrison is capable of. The rest of the comic frankly reads more like warmed-over Geoff Johns than anything in Seven Soldiers, New X-Men or hell, even Morrison’s JLA run. There’s all kinds of arguments you can make about what Morrison’s doing here, but frankly none of them matter at the end of the day when I put down the issue and realize that I’m still waiting for Morrison to do something that will live up to its potential as he described it.

Superman Beyond has been the only part of FC I could even consider remotely successful or readable at this point, but this is probably the most disappointed with Morrison I’ve ever been.

Final Crisis is the better of the two, but I’m enjoying them both. FC is hardly Morrsion’s best work, but I’m digging it for the most part- it’s actually scary in places, and the JG Jones artwork is top notch. And, of course, Superman Beyond was pretty badass. Bendis is clearly having a ball with a really stupid but really fun Marvel Universe story. It’s the first time in a long while- (since the Shooter era maybe?) that the Marvel books actually feel like shared universe. The downside of Secret Invasion is that it’s made the usually fun but stupid New and Mighty Avengers into formulaic flashback books for the duration.

Final Crisis.

One thing about Secret Invasion that’s been nagging at me is the feeling that the choice of which story/issue goes in which series seems… scrambled or weirdly randomized somehow. You know, a story will appear in New (or Mighty) Avengers that seems more appropriate to the SI miniseries (and vice versa), as though Bendis is writing a big set of “SI and crossover” issues, and they’re just being randomly assigned to be an issue of one of the series with no rhyme or reason. Anyone else have the same reaction?

Final Crisis, hands down. Secret Invasion at its best is a cool story but it’s been ridiculously uneven. The latest issue felt completely empty, and recent tie-ins in the Avengers books have been tanking (though the latest NA was better). The only thing truly special to come out of Secret Invasion was Captain Britain & MI13, and then a few of the tie-ins like Hercules have been cool (but even then, even with the better tie-ins, X-Men: SI isn’t as good as most of Carey’s X-Men tales, and Thor: SI is still below average for Fraction).

I was enjoying FC for the first three issues, and now I’m loving it. Is it Morrison’s best work? No, not so far anyway, but it’s an exciting story and it’s being told inventively. It’s not the best book on the shelves but it IS the only major event book from Marvel OR DC in YEARS that hasn’t left me shaking my head, honestly. The only things annoying about Final Crisis are A) the editorial/publishing SNAFU’s, and B) how many people are bitching about it online. Just looking at the story itself, I’m getting a lot from it.

Hmm, FC vs. SI is a tough call. They’re not even remotely the same type of story, and have failings that are equally disparate.

SI’s only ambition is to be an epic fight comic of the sort that 80’s Marvel excelled at, especially Secrets Wars and the early Infinity Whatevers. Problem: Bendis has a really tin ear for executing this type of story. Once he gets past the set-up in the easy-to-read but slow-moving early issues, the whole thing begins reading like Bendis’s very poor impression of the Kree-Skrull War he keeps doing at parties even though it provokes only, at best, polite laughter. SI7 is loaded with especially bad dialogue and the fight scene is a complete disaster of sequential storytelling– I dare anyone to figure out what’s going on in that battle save for the few plot points that are pushed forward. It’s an endless cascade of colorforms panels, otherwise.

FC is a much stronger idea, but frankly, tends to read like it’s one or two draft revisions away from being ready for prime time. It has a lot of “tell, not show” writing lapses so amateur it’s a bit baffling from Morrison. Far too much of the plot happens between panels instead of on-panel, which is fine for setting up spin-off titles and not so great if you want to follow the core thrust of the story. That said, issued 3 and 4 are a tremendous improvement over the first two and suggest that with most of the spin-off mini-series launched, Morrison can now get down to the business of crafting a workable narrative and doing something with the otherwise unimpressive “evil wins!” premise. (Evil wins roughly every other day in the DCU.)

FC would get the nod at this point, though with the caveat that Secret Invasion is about over, and we’ve seen it has very little to offer, while Final Crisis is at its halfway point and is starting to deal with ideas full of dramatic potential. If by some miracle you could’ve compared both series at their halfway point because FC was shipping on time, I’m not sure Secret Invasion would look quite so bad. Instead, you have a situation where you’re comparing the ending of a Marvel crossover (and all the recent Marvel crossover endings have been anti-climactic) to the ending of a DC crossover (which are usually the best parts, and especially Morrison is much better at writing endings than beginnings).

That said, if FC does end on a ridiculous “Care Bears” note, where the superheroes defeat the Anti-Life equation with Love (or a “Life Equation” that is basically “Love + Other Happy Things”), then it’s not really living up to its potential, either. Some scenes in FC #4 give me the unpleasant feeling that’s where the story is heading, and I really hope it’s a fake-out or that Morrison has some clever twist to apply to this hoary old magical girl cliche.

Final Crisis and not just for Morrison. The Marvel events recently have all been a lot of hot air. The main events used to take place in a mini-series and then you could enjoy the “red skies” fun in the regular titles. But now the mini series is nothing. No story, nothing happens to further the plot. I’ve been able to follow the story arc more through Thunderbolts than the title that is supposedly the main event.

Right now, I’ll give it to Secret invasion. I do think Final Crisis will have a better re-read factor down the road though.

Secret Invasion has worked a lot better as a crossover event, reaching into other titles, scheduling more or less working out and so on.

Final Crisis, OTOH, not so much. Delays have hurt it a lot, the lack of tie-ins and generally poor pacing really haven’t been good at all. There’s no big sense of drama or doom outside of the Final Crisis core titles, the rest of the DC titles seem to be working away as per normal with no mention of any Crisis happening at all.

Thomas C (AKA cap'n yesterday)

October 25, 2008 at 7:00 pm

I think Final Crisis is the more enjoyable storyline at this point. Morrison has continued with one of the ideas which made me like his run on X-Men so much: Truly International Superheroes. In GM’s vision of the DCU, there are superheroes on every continent, an idea that I just cannot hate ever. I really enjoy all the Seven Soldiers connections too.

Secret Invasion may have been my favorite if I had been following both of the Avengers books, which apparantly were laying the groundwork for the event in a similar way to Seven Soldiers; the books didn’t seem earth shattering on their own, so I’ve probably missed a lot of back story. Eh.

I do have a feeling that there will be more lasting changes coming out of SI rather than FC. Sure, the Daily Planet building got blown up, but Jimmy, Lois, and Perry are all alive, who cares about all the background extras? Not me, and certainly not Superman. No, he’s not praying for your resurrection, reporters crushed under rubble, Ha Ha! I seriously don’t believe that FC will change much, and I think everyone’s just going to ignore the international Heroes, just like they did with X-Corp (another collection of international superheroes) at the end of New X-Men.

Lynxara, Morrison has already shown how the Anti-Life Equation is defeated in FC #4: Barry Allen sees his wife Iris for the first time in years in the grip of Anti-Life, he kisses her, sparks literally fly, and behold: Iris is cured of Anti-Life. So, Uh, yeah, care bares for a PG-13 audience. Oh, don’t forget the Kiss was also non-consensual, man can’t open a comic without some form of rape on the page :p

I’m no fan of Morrison, but Secret Invasion was just weak. Final Crisis.

@Thomas C:

Yeah, that scene is what I was alluding to… it could have different implications depending on what happens in future issues, though, so I’m willing to give Morrison the benefit of the doubt. Nothing about that scene diagetically says, “And Iris was made better by love,” that is merely the implication of the scene’s structure and something many fans are assuming from context.

For all we know the actual mechanical reason why the kiss worked is because Barry, as a resurrected man, is made of Anti-Death lightwave particles or something. Perhaps it was his touch as much as the more romantic kiss. Or it could have been Speed Field energies, or maybe Iris just wasn’t very brainwashed to begin with, etc– Morrison is nothing if not creative. That scene just isn’t proof, yet, that we have a Care Bears ending in the making.

What I am saying is that if, at the end of the day– when all seven issues are published– FC resolves its situation with a Care Bears ending, well, I’m not sure even Morrison can write that in a non-terrible fashion. While FC is more interesting at this moment in time, it could end up feeling as unsatisfactory as Secret Invasion does now once its own ending is within sight.

Neither one is the best crossover ever written by any stretch of the imagination, but I have to give the nod to Final Crisis. It isn’t the easiest book to follow, but I really like the sense of overwhelming darkness that Morrison has put into it. I also fully believe that, when finished, the whole thing will make perfect sense and be a pretty fun read.

Secret Invasion, on the other hand, is a mess. I’m only reading it out of curiosity, and it’s a very hard book to follow. I’m not reading any of the tie-ins, so I’m missing huge parts of the story – which is not a good way to write a big event miniseries. The tie-ins should be supplemental reading, not required. Who the heck are these guys hanging out with Nick Fury? What’s up with the Kree guy who shows up out of nowhere in the latest issue? I’m not reading any other SI books, so these characters do nothing but confuse me when they show up. The book also has some bad pacing issues – nothing on par with the glacial House of M, but most of the issues so far have been people skulking around the Savage Land trying to decide who’s a Skrull and who isn’t; then there was a big fight scene.

And then there’s also the big sense of the whole Secret Invasion thing being a colossal tease. We had months of people wondering “who’s really a Skrull? Spidey? Cyclops? Iron Man?” And the answer is… Hank Pym, Spider-Woman, Jarvis, and the recently un-killed Captain Marvel. Oh, and a bunch of 70s era heroes who come out of a spaceship (which was both a total tease and a wasted opportunity) . Final Crisis may have it’s problems, but it’s living up to its hype better than a secret invasion consisting of two supporting characters and a couple of C-list heroes from the 70s.

Tom Fitzpatrick

October 25, 2008 at 8:31 pm

Final Crisis has better story, but is derailed by the artistry inconsistancy, as well as the constant interruption in the schedule.

Secret Invasion has better art, and is constantly on time.

I’d say 50/50.

Oh, curious kitty, you are a mischevious beast. As a Morrison creation, how can you be impartial?

But to answer your question, I do prefer Final Crisis. I like it a lot, and haven’t particularly cared for the mega fight scene that is SI. The tie ins are more interesting in SI than the main book is. FC has been good in both the main book and the tie ins.

I’d hesitate to describe most of Final Crisis spin-offs as “tie-ins,” given that most of them are trailers for Geoff Johns’ new series for 2009 rather than having anything to do with the actual plotline of Final Crisis.

“Final Crisis is the better story. Secret Invasion is the better ‘event.'”

You took the words right out of my mouth. Seriously, I was going to post that exact text.

I like Final Crisis better because I’m enjoying the story, want to see where it goes, and I’ve got my fingers crossed that it won’t descend into Morrison’s patented psuedo-intellectual masturbation. Assuming he doesn’t wander off and have a deus ex machina spout meaningless gibberish designed to make people think it’s deep in the last issue then that’s the one to follow.

But SI had a better premise for a cross over that could easily be dropped into an ongoing series. A few issues with the Skrulls to get the sales bump and it isn’t even really disruptive. The main books, however, are completely terrible and unlike FC where I’ve got my fingers crossed for a good ending I’m positive SI is going to conclude with a mess that will have people complaining about it for months.

I mean more than comic fans usually do.

You know, I’m torn. I’m getting them both, I’m enjoying them both… but:

I don’t know if it’s the delay since the last issue, but I found myself a little “lost” while reading FC. Plus, hasn’t Evil won before? I mean, ultimately, the good guys are still gonna end up winning, so the stakes don’t seem as high to me as there being made out to be. Plus, I really dug JG Jones art, and were gonna be getting less and less. Usually I detest crossovers that hijac other comics, so I’m glad FC is pretty muich self contained, but it’s so self contained that there hasn’t even been a mention of it in any other comic. Continuty issues are always gonna pop up in comics, but Lois Lane is seemingly at death’s door in FC, but in Supermen and Action Comics, she’s fine. Trust me I’m not a continuity nazi, but it just reinvorces that the events in FC aren’t all that earth shattering.

Secret Invasion is ‘aight, but I never got why the heroes were so shocked that an alien race of shapeshifters was, you know, shape shifting? I mean, I’m no Marvel historian, but haven’t the Skrulls done something similiar before, but less mellodrama? It’s sorta the same problem I had w/ Civil War where an event that seemingly happens all the time (civilians getting killed in a superhero/villian battle) would somehow lead to a war between heroes. And really, have there been any shocking Skrull reveals? Certianly no A-list charaters have been skrulls for years and years (maybe a few for months or something).

Regardless, I try not to be a negative fanboy, and I like them both fine. I geuss I’m just not a big crossover guy.

Final Crisis, because Morrison is a better writer than Bendis, but they’re both good fun, worth reading, and different enough that they don’t seem redundant.

Fascism v. Religious Terrorism

Everyone liked WWII way more than the Iraq War right?

Crisis. Just once, I wanted to see an “event” that doesn’t seem entirely concerned with leading towards “ye olde big punch up”. While FC might still go down that road, it seems unlikely – to spend four entire issues building up all that menace and dread into Darkseid performing one solitary physical action, only to finish it up with him and Superman punching each other in the head seems somewhat self defeating.

I’ve checked out most of SI, and from what parts of I’ve seen of the latest issue, its an endless mess of people flying in / out of explosions and punch ups. Haven’t got a clue what’s happening in most of those panels. I’m guessing the next issue will be more of the same.

I’m also confused by the reaction to what should be extremely self explanatory parts of FC, and (without wanting to sound snotty or condescending), those reactions seem to say more about what we expect as an audience than the work that’s actually given to us. For example, a common recurring point on message boards:

“I thought it was Bruce being converted to ‘darkseid’ in this issue. When did Dan Turpin fight gods and monsters and all that?(the inner monologue of the guy that’s resisting says ‘i’ve fought gods and monsters etc.’)

why do you guys think it’s turpin and not bruce?”

Uh…because we’ve been shown four issues of them trying to turn Turpin into Darkseid?

People also seem to keep talking about how they didn’t think Tattoo Man was the same person in those three panels where he reveals the circuit given to him by Black Lightning. Really? Despite the fact he has a monologue going the whole time throughout the transformation, holds the same pose and is clearly turning blue in panels 2 and 3?

….sorry, going away from the main question. But I think some people get so wrapped up in who the writer is, and how he’s supposed to be whooo, crazy etc that they’re presenting themselves with entirely unnecessary barriers. Yeah, there are some weird art bits that didn’t make sense (the headless John Stewart attacker, for example) but nowhere near as many as some people seem to think.

FC. By a country mile. Daring and risky, regardless of what is being said about FC at the moment, nobody can possibly say it’s a “typical event”

Which is really hypocritical of all the fans, in my opinion. There’s bee so much whining about event fatigue, and all events being similar, and when one dares to try to break the mould, it’s slammed for being elitist, difficult, and pretentious. Sigh. Just what does everyone want …

I’d go with Final Crisis, but really both main miniseries are weak. Secret Invasion is a two issue storyline spread across eight. Final Crisis is a twelve issue storyline crammed into seven. Neither strategy works. I’d call them a wash as far as which is better.

So then we go to the tie-ins. Secret Invasions’ tie-ins, the ones I’ve read anyway, have all been pretty solid, and in fact tend to be far more interesting than the main miniseries. Even Bendis’ New and Mighty Avengers issues, which people keep trashing, are some of the more interesting things he’s written lately imo. Hercules and Nova’s tie-ins seemed pretty natural and worked for the comics. But that said, the SI tie-ins are not amazing or anything, just very solid stuff.

On the other hand, Final Crisis’ tie-ins have been some of the best stuff DC’s been publishing all year imo. Rogue’s Revenge was a lot of fun, Legion of 3 Worlds is pretty epic so far. Revelations I lost track of because my LCS sold out of issue 2, so I decided to wait for the trade. Superman Beyond was very interesting.

So that’s why I give it to Final Crisis. Really though, Bendis and Morrison are showing they shouldn’t be behind these crossovers, they dropped the ball in their own minis with poor planning(and Bendis apparantly has been planning his for years!).

Bring on Blackest Night. What’s Marvel’s next event?

Final Crises by far. Secret Invasion to me, has been a whole lot of nothin’. Month after month, tie-in issue after tie-in issue, and the plot advances by mere inches, or else contradicts what just happened in a different book. Bleh.

I’ve been enjoying Final Crises, although it would be nice if it came out more often. I honestly don’t CARE about the artists, they are all good, and all I want, is to read my books. That said, I do think that it will be much more cohesive when it is finally all collected together. But still, I’m liking Final Crises.

So far, Final Crisis. Even though i have no idea of what´s going to happen, at least it has subplots, lots of things happening – like a mega event should be. I´m loving Rogues, LW3 and Superman Beyoond.

SI? Six issues about the 70´s heroes? The stories in NA and MA better than the main crossover (with the exception of MA # 17, that was really bad)? Bendis can do better than that.

They both suck, but with Secret Invasion I can at least understand what’s going on. Final Crisis seems to me like a completely disjointed sequence of events that make absolutely no sense either on their own or all together. Maybe if I’ve been reading comics for 50 years and had encyclopedic knowledge about all DC superheroes and their history, I’d see it differently. But from the point of view of someone who’s only been reading comics for about eight years and only reads superhero stories when someone interesting writes them, the Secret Invasion is simply not a very good book whereas the Final Crisis is an incomprehensible mess.

Final Crisis by far. I haven’t really been following tie-ins at all and FC has definitely been the easier one to follow. It’s also the one where significant things happen every issue.

“I’m also confused by the reaction to what should be extremely self explanatory parts of FC, and (without wanting to sound snotty or condescending), those reactions seem to say more about what we expect as an audience than the work that’s actually given to us”

This reaction seems to happen for any Morrison work and I do agree it’s because the majority of the comics audience isn’t prepared to read something challenging when they open up their superhero books. I know that was my problem the first time I read my first Morrison book (1234).

I will add that the FC spin offs, other than Suerpman Beyond are pretty lame, while the SI tie-ins have been pretty decent. The art in the Spectre thing is terrible, the Rogue’s Revenge seems overly violent and meaningless, and the Legion book makes no sense. I get that the DnA Legion and the Waid Legion are two of the Legions, but who are the “main” group of Legionaires supposed to be? They’ve got muscle shirts and spiked hair and stuff, so they’re not the Silver Age Legion, right? They’re not the 5 year gap legion obviously. It makes very little sense to me. And Perez’s art just doesn’t do it for me anymore.

Both are reasonably enjoyable reads, but both have glaring flaws.

SI had great potential, but it has descended into a mix of 15% dramatic moments and 85% seemingly-endless slugfests between the heroes and a bunch of Skrulls – who were supposedly “SUPERskrulls” but aren’t really capable of defeating even ONE non-powered hero. Seriously, these multiple-powered Skrulls were presented as fearsome threats but right now Hawkeye can grab his bow and singlehandedly kill a handful of them, as Captain America casually kicks them in the face and Iron Fist beats them without even using his power. Did the Superskrulls just forget that they have superpowers, or was the “we have replicated every superpower on Earth!” thing an empty bluff?

Meanwhile, Final Crisis is a dry death-march of “cool” scenes and “cryptic” lines sprinkled throughout a regurgitation of Rock of Ages, while all significant events happen off-panel. Wonder Woman turns evil off-panel, Barry Allen just reappears without further explanations off-panel, the whole world is conquered off-panel, Alan Scott organizes a worldwide resistance network off-panel, J’onn J’onzz is captured off-panel… seriously, this series is taking “tell, don’t show” to ridiculous extremes. At the rate this is going, I won’t be surprised if in the last issue the heroes win off-panel.

If we lower our expectations enough, though, both series can be enjoyed perfectly well as the literary fast-food that they are. But let’s not kid ourselves into thinking that either of these “events” are actually GOOD comics, regardless of their writers’ respective reputations. These events are the comics equivalent of a greasy cheeseburger with fries on the side and a milkshake.

By all means, let us enjoy these “junk food” events for the quick enjoyment that they can offer; but let’s not pretend that either of them are caviar just because the events’ authors have produced higher-quality meals in the past.

Final Crisis. To address a few things from the comment above, Rock of Ages had none of this dread that Morrison has become so skilled at inserting into narratives as he’s progressed. Nothing about this series can be compared to fast-food. It is mindblowing and wonderful in a way that event comics never are, and never have been. Get over your event-fatigue already.

SI is suffering from some pacing and story choices in a way that House of M didn’t. But I’m looking forward to rereading SI in trade. SI is fun summer popcorn to the exegesis that is Final Crisis.

HammerHeart, “let’s” not do that – while both books are certainly flawed, fast food/nice restaurant metaphors do nothing but go “Well, you know, the books suck, so let’s just lower the bar for discourse.” It’s not a cheeseburger as opposed to caviar, it’s Grant Morrison and Brian Bendis stretching their writing chops in directions they don’t usually go, to mixed but fascinating results.

As for the Barry Allen super-kiss, I’m pretty sure the Speed Force is the Life Equation. Think about it: Anti-life is *stagnation*. It’s doing the same thing all the time, living and dying for Darkseid, without hopes or dreams. It’s staying in the same place. The speed force is *motion*, it is change, it is life. If Anti-Life is stasis, Life is change, and the Speed Force, representing motion, is the avatar of change.

Wonder Woman turns evil off-panel, Barry Allen just reappears without further explanations off-panel, the whole world is conquered off-panel, Alan Scott organizes a worldwide resistance network off-panel, J’onn J’onzz is captured off-panel… seriously, this series is taking “tell, don’t show” to ridiculous extremes. At the rate this is going, I won’t be surprised if in the last issue the heroes win off-panel.

Wonder Woman turns evil because she’s infected by a virus by the already corrupted Mary Marvel. That seen was shown on panel. I guess you want to see Wonder Woman’s reaction to the virus, but that wouldn’t be that interesting.

Barry doesn’t know how he got resurrected, and he’ll likely find out at the same time we do. The fact that we aren’t shown how Barry was resurrected is a plot point.

We saw Darkseid’s first strike against the world: that was the uploading of ALE to the internet, that apparently caught 1 billion people. I guess if you really wanted to Morrison could have shown 2 or 3 people seeing the ALE and being turned into mindless slaves. The rest of the conquering of Earth is cleanup: have the slaves go infect most of their other neighbors, install the ALE into the other parts of the communication network, and build justifier helmets for the people who have stronger wills. The cleanup isn’t that interesting either.

Alan Scott already started organizing the heroes with the “Emergency Order X” thing that was shown. Perhaps Morrison could have shown then suddenly running into the wave of ALE possessed people, and then Alan Scott ordering a retreat to the various Watchtowers.

J’onn J’onzz’s capture is followup from Salvation Run mostly. They sent a boom tube to the planet he was left on, fired a bunch of fire and tranquilizer darts at him (when he was already relatively weakened from Salvation Run), and brought him to Earth.

wouldn’t this make a better poll than blog entry?

anyhoo…i started getting both and dropped final crisis after issue three, because it was sucking way too hard and i love grant morrison way too much to read something bad from him, and this seemed less comprehensible than batman r-i-p.

secret invasion i’m liking, the art’s great (no last issue switcheroo!), and although it’s ridiculously decompressed and wordy (bendisean?) at least it’s a fun read. and nick fury’s back.

Final Crisis, IMHO, seems to read better in its main title. The tie-ins and related limited series have been, by and large, rather dry.

Whereas Secret Invasion reads a lot better in its tie-ins (Avengers: The Initiative, Mighty Avengers, and the Guardians of the Galaxy spring to mind) and the main series has been rather dry.

From a business standpoint, Secret Invasion—6-10 Secret Invasion titles every week—Marvel has 52% of the market.

From a story standpoint, Final Crisis.

Final Crisis, by far. I’ve been enjoying Secret Invasion, especially some of the tie-ins, but FC is in a league all it’s own. Submit and #4 were two of the most emotionally charged comics I’ve read in a while.

No one !

Final Crisis benefits better arts but you know how that ends & the 2 artists productions feel kind of stiff & lack dynamism in action scenes.

For the writer….. nothing good to say!!

Honestly, they both had me in fanboy fervor mode before the first issues came out, and since then, I’ve become entirely disinterested in both!

Final Crisis. However, I think it’s mostly because I had higher expectations for Secret Invasion. I’ve been a huge fan of Post-Civil War New Avengers and pretty emotionally/ financially invested into the build-up, however the actual event is kind of meh for me.

I’m not a huge fan of either, though both are sort of interesting in that they both feel like skilled writers working in the situations where they’re weakest.

Bendis’ strength is in individual character work and small dialogue-driven moments, and he has to get every character in the Marvel U. into 8 issues.

Morrison’s at his best when he can play with freaky, reality warping ideas, and he’s writing an event where he’s ultimately beholden to the continuities of dozens of other books and has to leave most characters’ status quos relatively unchanged.

Sort of weird summer.

Leaning towards Final Crisis. Sure it’s a slow build but I’ve been enjoying it so far. Secret Invasion has seemed to slow down in the middle and the revelations in the Avengers books over explained things I really didn’t care about. And basically using the same motivation as Cylons in BSG for the Skrulls seems a bit cheap.

I honestly prefer the approach Morrison is taking which is just a series of minor events building to one big event. The artists switches and and delay are a little disappointing but I like the artists lined up so I can’t complain. It’s developing into a solid coda to his DCU work, so far. And I love Kirby’s 70’s DC stuff.

There’s plenty to like in Secret Invasion. Yu is doing some great work and Bendis has wrote a couple really memorable scenes.So I can’t complain. They are both pretty solid event books. I was excited for both.

Final Crisis is Morrison giving us his heart and soul in his sort of story: a story about things beyond the world that tell us about the world. Secret Invasion presents Bendis’s sharp, fast, cinematic approach to Marvel’s politicized atmosphere of social commentary.

This has been a fantastic summer for crossovers.

Final Crisis had me on the fence for Issues #1-3, and then knocked it out of the park with #4.

Secret Invasion seems to be filled with padding. It’s taking forever for anything to happen.

Both have been extremely underwhelming, to be honest, though they are nice to look at. One is a way too long fight scene, the other just doesn’t have enough happening in it action-wise. Something in the center would have been better…

I think I would have liked SI if some of the fight scenes were replaced with some of the reveals and backstory that Bendis did in the various Avengers titles. Seriously, though, this is what Bendis has (in his words) been building up?

I’ll give it to FC, but just barely. At this point, my only interest is to see which series will have a bigger impact on it’s respective universe’s status quo…

Secret Invasion has flaws, but Final Crisis is a total mess.

Grant Morrison is great but he doesn’t get a free pass. Crap is crap.

Secret Invasion.
Nuff Said.

Haven’t been reading Secret Invasion, but I’m liking Final Crisis.

Secret Invasion

I’m really enjoying Secret Invasion, the mini and most of the tie-ins. I think the story has moved along very well, but the main title has become a victim of the many tie-ins. With so many titles coming out under the “Secret Invasion” banner, it feels like so much more should have transpired. However, the main mini has been excellent when read on its own. I’ve been excited for every issue as it’s come out.

Unfortunately, I read the first issue of Final Crisis and was so bored with it that I haven’t picked up any since. I really like the high-concept and based on the fact that many people have raved about it, I’ll probably get it in a trade at some point.

Michael Rawdon wrote:

“Heck, Alan Moore could probably tell this story in about three pages.”

But Alan Moore’s script would have been 25 pages with an appendix and background notes.

I don’t know what niche of responses hasn’t been filled in yet, but I’ll take FC over SI any day of the week. If I’d had a clue how muddled SI #7 was going to look, I never would have prepaid for it. It was disappointing that you had to buy Submit to get much more out of FC #4, but it was worth it.

I think FC is going to read better when it’s all out. SI will not get any better when you read 1-8 in one sitting.

They both have their own strengths and weaknesses, and it’s difficult for me to judge. Especially with one about halfway done and another on it’s penultimate issue.

FC definately reads like a lot of big huge things are happening. Morrison is much better at showing the DC Universe as a whole. This feels like something affecting the entire Earth, while SI seems to concentrate on America (and even then, mostly in New York). It’s also surprisingly dark, and while a certain amount of darkness is almost the standard these days, it seems to fit the story unlike Infinite Crisis’ rather blase use of gory violence. But I also feel like when I read the main series it seems to have these rather broad gaps for the tie-in issues to fill (the gap between issue 3 and 4 had me wondering if I had missed an issue, especially with the delays), though the few tie-ins I’ve read have been fantastic .

Secret Invasion I think works better as a stand alone story. SI doesn’t have as many twists and turns (which is a bit surprising considering the concept for the story seemed to be ripe with the opportunity), and while I’d argue that many of the tie-ins are a bit more of a mixed bag, but they’re less necessary to enjoy the main story. SI on the other hand seems to suffer from some padding (though I don’t feel it is as bad as others seem to).

Basically I see Final Crisis as being a rather substandard for Morrison (who when he wants to big crazy stories can really deliever), but still rather good. I think Secret Invasion being probably the best “big” story Bendis (who normally seems more in his element with more single character books) has told but still has some flaws. And thus I think they’re about even, more or less. But both still have opportunities to change my thoughts on the matter for good or ill.

I vote for Secret Invasion, just because I can understand everything going on without buying 50 crossovers. Final Crisis…not so much…

Secret Invasion – I’m a Marvel guy especially an Avengers guy and I think Bendis is doing a great job.

I have been reading DC books for years and I can’t tell you what is happening in Final Crisis. Morrisson is hit and miss with me and this is definitely a miss so far, but I will reserve final judgement until I have read the final issue.

I definitely prefer the Geoff Johns written tie-ins for Final Crisis to any of the tie-ins for Secret Invasion. The other tie-ins for FC have not been that great. Hated the 3-D Superman book and could not tell you why Meltzer’s book needed to be a tie-in. But the Rogue’s Revenge and the Legion of Three Worlds … Great Stuff!

Final Crisis by a country mile

Final Crisis has been better by far.

I have enjoyed the main series, and all of the tie-in spin offs.

The only Secret Invasion related issues i have enjoyed have been the Captain Britain and MI:13 and the X-Men mini-series. The rest has just left me cold.

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