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This photoshopping effects of photographs must STOP!
If you can't actually DRAW people, then you have no business in this business.

Applying filters to photos of BACKGROUNDS is fine and dandy.
Hell, I had that idea even before there WAS photoshop and I was trying to break into the industry (which I did for a short while, but that's neither here nor there).
Byrne did that in some of his 1980's work, and I'd seen it done in the 1960's as well.
Photos of backgrounds are cool.

But if you can't DRAW a person (or for the love of all that's holy, get a model who at least LOOKS the DAMN PART OR at the VERY LEAST, put in the MINIMAL EFFORT to alter the photo to LOOK like the character), then step away from the job.

That whole book was shoddy.

~P~

"And the part of Namor will be played by Joe Pesci..."

Damn that steroid testing!

Wow - I had seen all the reviews saying how badly drawn Namor is in that issue, but this is my first look at the real thing. I had assumed the reviewers were exaggerating. I was wrong. If anything, judging from those scans, the crappiness has been understated.

I generally like Maleev, but that rendition of Namor is just atrocious.

I was wondering based on the art whether there wasn't a major Namor event that I missed that led to him becoming a mentally challenged loser. Thanks Maleev.

Yeah, it was really, really, really awful. The worst depiction of Namor I've ever seen, and everytime his face appeared, it distracted me and took me right out of the story to ask myself, "who thought this was a good way to show Namor?"

Really? I'm the only one who thought this was the most appropriate rendition of Namor ever?

He's total sleazeball euro-trash, with a sense of entitlement to the world and every piece of ass on it.

If Namor existed, this is exactly what he'd resemble. With a gold chain necklace and oddly-colored snakeskin boots, too.

Yeah, now I can see why Sue never picked a king over Reed. If we are going to exaggerate Namor physically, go with the original interpretation of a triangular head, at least then he wouldn't look so overweight from the chin up. Also, when did he start loosing his hair? Hopefully Namor will not being showing up in their Spider-Woman.

to Sanctum: what is it about these panels that tells you it was Photoshopped? as far as i can tell, this looks like it's all done by hand. I've never known Maleev to use Photoshop much, if at all. he's a penciller and painter, who uses human models at times. if there's anything to fault here it's the arguably poor choice of model here, not the use of Photoshop. as far as today's artists go, Maleev is the "real deal" and doesn't succumb to the computer techniques utilized by many others who have a realistic style.

Apodaca: I have to totally agree with you here. i think it's a wholly appropriate and accurate portrayal of the guy.

I'm with Apadoca and RM. This is my favorite Namor EVER.

Are you guys serious? This is the majestic, honorable and noble king of Atlantis? (Not sure about the current status of Atlantis, but at least that's what he was for a long time.) This is the hero that, as mentioned above, Sue Richards considered leaving her husband for? He looks like an overweight, nebbishy, lazy, balding moron here! For my money, this depiction was completely inconsistent with nearly 70 years of illustrations and characterizations.

Greatest Namor ever. Appropriately pudgy and vaguely eastern-european looking (perfect widow's peak). I half expected some cheesy trance music to accompany his entrance. Next, i'm sure Maleev will have him in the proper adidas trackpants-white socks-sandals attire his fellow brethren love so much.

And to the goon in the first comment blathering about photoshop? stfu. seriously.

"This is the hero that, as mentioned above, Sue Richards considered leaving her husband for?"

Deep down, beneath the mom ankle boots and northface vests, Sue Storm is a whore at heart. And of course she dug Namor's sweaty Prague discotheque style. Seriously, does Reed even pleasure her anymore?

Bono?

Maybe it's to emphasize Namor's loss of kingdom? Times are tough for Namor, what reason does he have to put any effort in his appearance?

Worst. Namor. Ever.

Seriously, all the jokes and jibes about Namor aside, if I didn't know by others addressing him, and had to go by the panels shown alone, (and not the context of the book), no way would I think it was Namor.

He reminds me of the actor who played the head French Commando in "Deanzilla" (the awful American Godzilla movie from a few years back). Can't recall the man's name, but that's who this "Namor" reminds me of.

Ugh. Terrible artwork, IMHO. Female Loki didn't get off much better, either.

Take it and run,

Lawrence: exactly! Maleev has drawn Namor before, and he's drawn him as the noble king that everybody seems to be clamoring for. but he's lost his kingdom, and he's experiencing some hard times now. and as far as the complaints about him being pudgy? look at that first panel... he's looking pretty trim to me. but facially, yes, he is looking a little worse for the wear, as he should these days.

I understand that Namor lost his kingdom, but he looks like he's been sleeping under a park bench. And drinking liquor out of a paper bag. I guess he smells bad, too, according to Emma Frost. I'll just pretend that I didn't read this book.

Ooooh! He DOES look like Jean Reno!

"...but he looks like he’s been sleeping under a park bench. And drinking liquor out of a paper bag. I guess he smells bad, too,"

Actually, he looked a hell of a lot better when he actually *was* sleeping under a park bench and drinking liquor out of a paper bag!

http://www.avengerschronology.com/archivio/pict_scrap/SC-07-0050/B.jpg

And tonight the part of Namor will be played by Phil Collins!

Um, yeah, add me to the list of people who aren't really impressed with this interpretation of Namor. I haven't gotten in to pick up my comics this week, yet, but I'll definitely be checking out the full issue. Was Namor the only one who was all weird like this, or was the art off everywhere?

And, I'm sorry, but this definitely looks like a scanned photo painted over. If it's not... ouch.

Andrew,

Thank you! Jean Reno! THAT'S the gentleman in question!

At least now I won't be subconsciously asking over and over who it was

Take it and run,

I actually like it. Namor's always been kind of a loser - except maybe in that Byrne series a hundred years ago. This is kinda how I usually pictured Namor. And almost how he looked in his first FF appearance two hundred years ago.

BTW, he reminds me of Nico from GTA IV.

He looks like a fat Jean Reno from the Professional.

I'd like to thank the Internets for convincing me to skip Dark Reign. If one person can be saved, you've done your job, and that one person is me.

overweight? really?

Whoa! From a quick glance a the photos, I thought it was Black Adam's new costume...

That's a really crappy Namor...

(I would have been a bad Black Adam too, but that could have been Black Adam-the 80s years...)

I'm not a fan in general of the photo-realism style pencils that seems to be much popular lately, especially when it looks like it was traced or is a virtually unaltered image of a celebrity. Pretty much takes me right out of the story every time. The Ultimates is a perfect example. When I first saw Ultimate Nick Fury, I didn't think "Cool," I thought "Why is Samuel Jackson playing the role of Nick Fury in this comic?"

How exactly is a guy who helped win World War II, ruled a barbarian kingdom for decades, possesses the physical power of a demigod, and comes from beneath the sea sensibly be called a "Eurotrash loser?" Especially the "Eurotrash" part, since, you know, he's not from Europe.

Just want to chime into say I also thought it was the most spot-on drawing of Namor I've ever seen. Euro-sleaze is pretty much his game in a nutshell.

I've just had a closer look at the cover over on CBR, and seeing as Alex Maleev is credited with drawing that as well, WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED!?!?! Namor looks fine there....

Although the huge breasts behind the guy that I presume is Pete Windsor are a bit too distracting... (Valkyrie?!?!)

Namor looks like he just got back from a date with She-Hulk.

"How exactly is a guy who helped win World War II, ruled a barbarian kingdom for decades, possesses the physical power of a demigod, and comes from beneath the sea sensibly be called a “Eurotrash loser?” Especially the “Eurotrash” part, since, you know, he’s not from Europe."

Well, since there's no such thing as Atlantis, European is probably the closest we can get to a real world comparison/description for the guy.

"How exactly is a guy who helped win World War II, ruled a barbarian kingdom for decades, possesses the physical power of a demigod, and comes from beneath the sea sensibly be called a “Eurotrash loser?” Especially the “Eurotrash” part, since, you know, he’s not from Europe."

'Eurotrash' is a term that refers to style of appearance and mode of behavior. It's not restricted to citizens of the European Union. Just like how rednecks don't always need to have sunburned necks.

And when a guy constantly walks around in a speedo, brags about his social status at every opportunity, hits on the hot girl who's with the nerd, and is entirely driven by self-interest, he can be called a Eurotrash loser.

Well, since there’s no such thing as Atlantis, European is probably the closest we can get to a real world comparison/description for the guy.

That's just a little bit stupid...

What, you cuoldn't think "Trailer-trash" like Britney's wedding in white tracksuits with burgers?

Or Fast Eddie from Reservoir Dogs...

Lazy, guys. And offensive to those of us who live in Europe...

So anything outside the States is European???

Apart from that country to the North that keeps being refered to as "Canadia"...

Someone mentioned that Namor looked like Bendis.

Regardless, whoever it is, it's definitely photoshopped.

http://ps-helper.com/?p=3

A basic tutorial like that one will show you how to do the same thing.

"That’s just a little bit stupid…

What, you cuoldn’t think “Trailer-trash” like Britney’s wedding in white tracksuits with burgers?

Or Fast Eddie from Reservoir Dogs…

Lazy, guys. And offensive to those of us who live in Europe…

So anything outside the States is European???

Apart from that country to the North that keeps being refered to as “Canadia”…"

You make no sense.

And when a guy constantly walks around in a speedo, brags about his social status at every opportunity, hits on the hot girl who’s with the nerd, and is entirely driven by self-interest, he can be called a Eurotrash loser.

Thing is, that's an inane and smug reading of the small number of Namor stories it remotely describes. It requires you to attack superficial character elements that have a lot more to do with the "high concept" than will Bill Everett worrying about what 2009's fashion mavens would say about 1939's bathing attire in a fundamentally intellectually and critically dishonest fashion. Nor do you seem in your critique to grasp the idea of a character rather obviously meant to fit in a fantasy genre where actual royalty and titles are a fundamental trope, as opposed to the totally irrelevant German nobility who make up real Eurotrash. That would be why I included the character's WWII adventures and the word "barbarian" before "kingdom;" Namor hardly resembles any real-world royalty of the present.

To make your joke, or perhaps semi-serious claim, you have to deliberately exclude certain simple elements of the character in favor of the seven or eight Lee/Kirby stories in which he really isn't anything more than an arrogant hotshot hitting on the hero's girlfriend. (I'd also point out that Reed's not a nerd outside the execrable FF films and the badly misaimed Ultimate FF remix; he's rather obviously an ostensibly "cool" B-movie professor circa a 1955 drive-in double feature.)

The material may well be pop crap ephemera, but if you're going to comment about it to other people cheap jokes that fall apart with a moment's examination or the application of even a patina of knowledge about the matter critiqued seem rather pointless.

But then, that should have been obvious the moment someone said "if Namor were a real guy." The fact that he's a deliberately irreal representation of a genre fantasy would seem to require anyone making a comment, even a casual one, to apply their own common sense and avoid idiotic trolling of the sort at least six people have managed in these comments so far.

I don't care much for the character myself, but for the sake of the other people to whom I write my comments, or at least the sake of their time, I can usually be bothered to think about why the character doesn't appeal to me and who he's supposed to appeal to in making my judgments.

The whole "Namor' a Eurotrash creep!" thing isn't funny. It's unfunniness isn't because Namor the pen-and-ink juvenile fantasy deserves to be taken seriously, but because the joke doesn't even manage to get the details of the thing it's mocking right.

Put more simply: is the problem that Nmaor the character sucks, or that Bendis and Maleev are using the character in a semi-realistic milieu without updating the character elements leftover from the irreal fantasy milieu for which he was originally created and designed?

It's a poor artistic choice, period.

"It’s a poor artistic choice, period."

that's subjective, and that's your opinion, and i can respect that. just as i hope that you'd respect the fact that i think it's a pretty cool choice to have him appear as he does in the above panels, keeping in mind what the character's been through as of late. as i said earlier, Maleev has depicted Namor as the regal king figure in the past, but times have changed, and Maleev chose to reflect those changing times in Namor's appearance here. you don't think it works, i think it does. we can agree to disagree.

and i understand your complaints about the Euro-trash comment. i wasn't the one who used the term earlier, but i can see your side of it.

This quote sums it up completely.
[i]this depiction was completely inconsistent with nearly 70 years of illustrations and characterizations.[/i]

Although this one is just damn funny. And most likely accurate.
[i]Namor looks like he just got back from a date with She-Hulk.[/i]

with that said, the loser-ish qualities for Namor still apply. Namor can be regal and proud and noble ruler, but he's also been shown repeatedly to be an arrogant butthead. it's not picking and choosing what we want to use/ignore, it's not high concept. the character is rather complex, actually. and he's had his highs and how he's experiencing some lows. the look reflects that. period.

Uh, that's Bendis with hair.

http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/wizarduniverse/BrianMichaelBendis.jpg

I think it's a poor artistic chocie for a couple of other reasons, most notably that everything else in the story asks us to take Evil's Coffee Klatch seriously. Comedy Namor and his loserdom is sort of a distraction from the idea that these are the new movers and shakers, and it actually does some real harm to the execution of the later sequence with Doom and Namor working together as the cleverest and most down-to-earth of the council. Bendis wants to hark back to the regal but ambivalent Namor whom Doom migh talk to as an equal, and on whom the story can rest some weight. But Maleev's depiction of the character, and Bendis's cheeky dialogue earlier on, have somewhat wrecked the bit.

That's why I find it a poor artistic choice: because Bendis and Maleev end up using him "seriously" after all, and the earlier stuff and general character design they've gone with undermine that without making the undermining itself into any sort of a discernible point.

Omar, put down the thesaurus, you're impressing no one with your stilted English 101 attempt at argument via sheer verbosity.

RM,

As a professional illustrator and someone with more than a passing familiarity to how many comics these days use photoshop filters to render photos into line-art, I can SEE the photoshopping.
I'm not guessing.
I can SEE it.

I can also SEE in some of the pics of "Namor" that it's a photo of a guy, that has been given the filter treatment, and then treated with some surface line-art to tweak it.

Sure, some of the stuff is hand-drawn, but the majority of it is just rendered OVER photos.

I don't care HOW harsh namor's life has been as of late, that looks NOTHING like the character.
Even taking into account the bad year that Namor's had.
It's just NOT.

No way would "the Avenging Son" (Imperius Rex!) even deem it acceptable to be SEEN looking less than his best.
Even if he were destitute and living on old sardine cans found at a wharf, he would at least make himself LOOK presentable.
Pride and his position would demand it.

Same goes for the depiction here of DOOM.

NO WAY would DOOM sit in that ratty-looking sub-basement room - WAITING - for others to show up.
He's appear, in a grand entrance and if no one were there, in a few moments he'd torch the place for having his time wasted.
To be left waiting in a room like that is rude, and DOOM doesn't brook rudeness or dismissiveness.

If he DID deign to wait, he'd do so STANDING.
Most likely with his back to the door in a clear act of defiance (his sensors allowing him to know in advance who was coming in should he need to take any action). Then, when someone DID enter, he's slowly turn around in a grand gesture with his cloaking sweeping widely to reveal his presence.

Sure, he sat in the "power-chair" (the one facing the door), but still, he looks like a stooge, and would have STOOD behind that chair instead (OR sat in it with an air of superiority. Not like he was waiting for the soup at the homeless shelter).

This whole thing looked painful to the eyes, and from a talent like Maleev from whom I have enjoyed in the past (despite the photoshopping).

The "drawing" of Namor kept yanking me out of the story, and I kept expecting it to be revealed as someone else pretending to be him, with only Doom knowing otherwise.

But, the more I read it, the more I saw that they were trying to pass this shlub off as Namor.

What editor thought it was acceptable?

Gah.

~P~

Agent Torpor, that was thesaurus writing for you? Huh. Go figure.

As a bit of a grammarian, the only stilted portions of that paragraph were some punctuation misfires, a few spelling mistakes, and incorrect word tenses.

But a thesaurus? Really? Because he used "discernible," maybe?

I agree with you whole-heartedly, SSC. I posted a link to a general Photoshop tutorial so you too can "draw" like Alex Maleev!

In all seriousness, though, wowsa that was bad art.

Because when I want to stifle dissent with vocabulary, I always make sure to throw in things like "loserdom" and "Evil's Coffee Klatch."

The Bendis/Maleev culture of once-exciting, super-powerful characters sat around talking must STOP!

Ugh! Maleev's interior Namor doesn't even look like Maleev's COVER Namor! BLEARGH!

Jack Tango,

I saw the link you posted, and even THAT is a poor (but fairly quick and easy) version of how it's done.

There are a few steps involved (unless one has installed some pre-set macros) but the end result is what is shown in 90% of the work of Maleev.

When he first came on the scene, it was mindblowing to me, and I had never seen things like that before.
I'd seen retouched photos enough to know that he was using them as a basis, but I had no idea how to do it.

So, I sat down and experimented (that was before I got my current art gig where the computer is 90% of the job - before that I drew everything by hand).
And eventually, I found out how it was done and could replicate it pretty well.

Sure, he still adds his own touches and linework to the pics, but for the most part, those are photos.

He's FAR classier at it than guys like Greg Horn (who traces with a lightbox over photos).
At least Maleev uses photos from other places aside from porno mags (although, some pics should really be rethought - that pic of Emma Frost saying "no" with the porn-"O"-face looked out of place).

Anyway, Maleev has serious talent.
I've seen his work where he ISN'T photoshopping.
He's good.

This was just horrid.

The only thing I can imagine is that they were striving for a "down-on-their-luck" look for some of these villains.

But there's no WAY that Namor or DOOM would allow themselves to appear in public looking anything less than GODlike.

Bendis & Maleev screwed up the entire characterization of the characters with this issue.
FAIL.

~P~

Sam wrote;

"The Bendis/Maleev culture of once-exciting, super-powerful characters sat around talking must STOP!"

Yes, and no. A GOOD writer and artist could make this work. Unfortunately, Bendis doesn't seem to honestly be capable of writing the vast majority of these characters to be true to their canon. I know it's a tired complaint to some, but more and more, Bendis keeps proving he can't write true super-heroics. He's a street-level writer, and that's fine, but he clearly needs a tighter Editorial rein if he's going to write these powerful characters and make them anywhere near "themselves."

I'm not sure on Maleev. As others have stated, he was able to draw Namor in such a fashion that he was actually recognizable, so I am not sure what happened here. Was it a poor attempt to convey Namor at his lowest point? Was it a deadline crunch? Was it at Bendis' direction? I don't know.

This style of story can be done very well, just IMHO not by Bendis, not with these characters.

The ONLY part of this I was mildly entertained by was Loki snickering openly with her "heh" comment. And while Doom is a step up from when he called Ms Marvel a fat cow, it's damning with faint praise.

I know it'll come off like the usual "pile on Bendis" argument, but I really don't know how else to put it. As bad as the artwork is, the "dialogue" is just as bad and jarring. Close your eyes and recall some of this dialogue -- does it sound like Namor? Say what you will about, say, Stan Lee, but HE could make dialogue between characters unique and distinctive -- all of the Bendis dialogue comes from the same mouth, as it were, with very little to render one character distinctive from another.

*WHEW* Sorry for the long, droning rant. And thanks again for the Jean Reno name.

Take it and run,

The above was me, apologies.

Apodaca,

I don't make sense? Sorry.
A) I hadn't read your post as I hadn't refreshed, so I didn't know your explanation of "eurotrash"...
B) The majority of comments using the phrase eurotrash were then going on to talk about Namor as EUROPEAN... And came across as pretty xenophobic.
C) I'm British, so the phrase means something different to me... basically an old late-night Channel 4 programme about strange fetishes, overly plastic porn-stars and naked Germans...

Any way. Forget it. I'm grumpy, I've had too much coffee, not enough sleep and an incredibly crap day at work...

Moving on...

I enjoyed Maleev on Daredevil... but this DOES look Photoshopped. It would certainly explain how his stubble varies from picture to picture...

@SSC

I'm assuming Doom was only there because he was (at that point) still in HAMMER's custody. I could be mistaken, but I don't think Doom was ever shown escaping/being released from prison.

Doom escaped jail in Secret Invasion.

"To make your joke, or perhaps semi-serious claim"

No, trust me, you're the only one that's taking this seriously.

Or personally.

"Doom escaped jail in Secret Invasion."

I would have thought that international pressure over having a team of American or UN (they alternate detpending on what mood Bendis is in that day) supported superhumans unilaterally attack a sovereign nation and kidnap its leader might have caused something of a stir. Silly me expecting them to following the implications of their actions as long as they're writing "realistically".

The concepts behind Dark Reign could have been interesting but I have no hope that Bendis will actually do it with anything resembling competence. Right there in #1 (and thank god I didn't buy it) half of that table would have vaporized Osborn the second he said, "Here's how it's going to be," and then followed it up with a snarky comment about how it's going to be. There should be personality clashes right from the start but instead it's just a weak infodump; there's no character to any of it. Even with an infodump a good artist could have told the story of the reactions in body language and Maleev didn't even do that.

Instead of this issue imagine it with a fast talking, barely stable Osborn who went in cocky but barely kept things under control by dancing as fast as he could and at the end he's deeply over his head. Picture it with the Hood trying to act like he belongs there but still has the manners of his street thug background. Consider it with Emma just showing up to try to find out what these power players were up to and finding herself tempted to join in whole heartedly. What if Namor had remembered the fact that he hates both Osborn and Doom but wants his kingdom back more. Or if Doom undermined everything Osborn said not even hiding the fact that he considers himself in control. And Loki not even caring about any of this but just enjoying stirring everything up.

That's off the top of my head but somehow I think I've put more thought into their characterization than Bendis has.

Honestly, Random, that's what I read in the book. Just like what you said, but thankfully subtextually.

Jean Reno looks TOUGH, that Namor looks like trash (euro or not).

And being "eurotrash" myself, I must add that Namor's human father Leonard McKenzie was american...

Best,
Hunter (Pedro Bouça)

I like how people are saying Namor's 20-year-old costume looks like a rip-off of Black Adam's, when most of them didn't even know who Black Adam was until about 1999.

"And being “eurotrash” myself"

So, you display your chest as frequently as possible, wear gold jewelry and ugly shoes, have greasy hair, and think you're better than everybody else?

Or maybe you like discotheques, mesh shirts, and hitting on girls in front of their boyfriends?

I kept thinking he should be wearing a gold choker, big gawdy rings have a smoke in one hand and a meatball sub or a gyro or something to that effect in the other. I did not read all the comments but any thoughts to what he smelled like, I would think the beach like the cologne on Seinfeld. Later!

Instead of this issue imagine it with a fast talking, barely stable Osborn who went in cocky but barely kept things under control by dancing as fast as he could and at the end he’s deeply over his head.

In the issue I read, that seems like exactly what happened -- Norman snaps at the end and he knows that snapping means he won't be able to keep this up, Loki never takes him seriously to begin with, and Doom and Namor actually say to each other that they're waiting for Norman to predictably lose it, at which point they're going to step in with their own plan.

See, Joe, I actually can agree with you when you're not just making lame jokes excusing Maleev and Bendis for doing a terrible job on Namor. No one made them use the character, and certainly no one made them keep him in his extra-hideous 1970s costume.

I've never wanted Garth Ennis to write a Namor comic so much in my life!
The Namor Pub-Crawling, Squid-F%cker Special Ennis, Maleev 2009

I think they did a perfect job with him. Namor is a giant dick, and he's lost his kingdom, and I think this was perfect.

Aren't you lucky, Joe? The self-appointed authority gave you a backhanded compliment!

So...there's no explanation for why he looks like that?

I didn't read it, I just assumed that there was one.

See, he looks fine over in the @#!$!@#$@!$ ATLANEAN WAR going on in Hercules!!!

Brain: we got a poll going in the forums:
http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=249122

Joe Rice and Dan Apodaca calling someone else a self-appointed authority...wow, the hypocrisy. It burns!

What the heck did I say?

He wasn't a bum in Herc, which was definitely an appearance he made after the invasion and before the title character joins the Avengers.

Sorry, Joe. It'd be a ridiculous understatement to say I've gotten a bit carried away. Time for me to step (far) away for the internet for a while.

We all get there, dude. Have a cold one and stretch your legs out.

Well, it's pretty funny. I neither want it destroyed, nor want it to become the editorially enforced standard version; it would be a funny version to return to now and again, while also letting creators use the trad version when that's what they want to do.
Funniest line in this was when Emma Frost asks him "do you always smell like that?" Because he really does look like he smells. Fishier than an anchovy's privates.

NAMOR THE SUB-MARINER.

SERIOUS BUSINESS.

In other news it's kind of hilarious that Namor is being characterized as the Goofus to Doc Doom's Gallant. Dark Reign almost makes the Bendis titles seem like they might be entertaining, in an Ultimates 3 kinda way. Not really, though. (To be fair, Ultimate Spidey is still just fine.)

Wow, this devolved into Jack Tango and Omar Karindu gladhanding each other with copious amounts of lube. Pass.

Hopefully, someone bought the other one dinner first. Arbys?

that guy is right,
its TOTALLY BENDIS

i for one appreciate a little variety now and then in my art. although i'm a little biased, i'ved liked Maleeve since Dead Time (crow2)

That is just horrid art. Maleev needs to go to Remedial Art Classes.

I love Troll Namor!

Daredevil (50, I believe): Kingpin
What If (Karen Page, I believe): The Watcher
Dark Reign (and forever onwards, I hope!): Namor

Is there a Marvel character for which Bendis could >>not<< act as a body double? Clint Barton, Hank Pym, Egghead, says I. Johnny Storm (give him a wig), Sue Storm (Ibid), Stan Lee (Excelsior!). Oh, and speaking of Pym: Ultron -- not a leap!

But of course, I will always hold a special place in my heart for the (likely all-talk) Absorbing Man.

"Sorry, Joe. It’d be a ridiculous understatement to say I’ve gotten a bit carried away. Time for me to step (far) away for the internet for a while."

Yeah, that was pretty absurd. Maybe one day, we can make fun of superheroes together.

I personally looked at it and said, "Wow, it's like Guy Davis jumped in to draw Namor and Namor only." I happen to love Guy Davis and his art to an unholy degree, but his style and Maleev's style don't necessarily click.

Yeah, that was pretty absurd. Maybe one day, we can make fun of superheroes together.

Why do you even read them if you can't take them seriously?

They may be escapist to you, but for some of us they are REAL!

Ob viously photoshopped, fine, but at least try to make the guy look like Namor. Losing his kingdom or not, he's' not going to suddenly seem to be losing his hair, but I do have to admit that it does get across that even Namor doesn't look so pristine all the time. He looks haggard,and remember, he once looked like crap all those years ago when Torch had to give him a shave, so it shows that the great monarch hasn't had laser treatment to avoid facial hair. I just wish it didn't look so obviously photoshopped. Artsist using photos as references make sense when a model isn't in the room with you, but you should be able to draw the photo without essentially tracing it directly.

as to the euro-trash comment, it is offensive ... i mean one can argue, as so many countries don't exactly love the United States, that America is full of arrogant dicks who think they're better than everybody else, so why not say American-Trash? But, no, it's easier to put a slight on Europeans or Canada. In any case, just say that Namor is a narcissistic, arrogant creep, who's ego and overall epitome of being an a$$hole rivals Quicksilver or Doctor Doom.

Personally I thought he looked like Billy Joel, but I can definitely see Jean Reno in there too.

The thing is, people can say all they like that they think Namor "should" look like that and they're totally entitled to that opinion; but the fact is, he doesn't look like that. Or at least, before this comic, he never has. Drawing Reed Richards to look exactly like Albert Einstein or Peter Parker to look like Adam Sandler or Thor to look like Brian Blessed would suit those characters perfectly fine too, but it's just not what they look like.

Also, I don't see how anyone can call Namor "Eurotrash"; the term, as I understand it - and the obvious problem is that everyone's defining it differently - is generally applied to idle rich young Europeans who are all image and no substance and live to party, usually on their parents' dime. Namor isn't idle, young or European (that one's kind of critical), he's a first class jerk but he's not shallow, never parties, and if anything is a classic type-A personality. The Fenris twins (pre-Swordsman) were "Eurotrash." The term fits Emma Frost (or at least the image she puts forth - we all know she's deeper than that, not to mention also not European) better than Namor.

Calling Namor Eurotrash just because he's arrogant and hits on Sue Richards is like calling Auquaman an "Ugly American" just because he's apt to use violence to solve problems and thinks his homeland's culture is better than everyone else's (for the record: Guy Gardner is to Ugly American as the Fenris twins were to Eurotrash). Namor's not Eurotrash, he's just a douchebag.

"In any case, just say that Namor is a narcissistic, arrogant creep, who’s ego and overall epitome of being an a$$hole rivals Quicksilver or Doctor Doom."

Brevity is the soul of wit. This? Not brief. Sorry, rules are rules.

Also: hi Europe! We kid because we love! Don't cry Europe! We didn't mean it!

Please, don't laugh at Maleev's rendition of Namor (or the "Al Pacino gone Drag Queen" Loki). He CLEARLY got all his fingers broken by the mob.

I really wish Mort Weisinger was still alive and working in comics. It would do today's writers and artists good to have to deal with an editor who might throw their work on the floor and jump up and down on it.

I guess Namor's depiction here can be described in two words:

AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!

Namor actually looks more like the football-watching neighbor guy in Amelie.

Personally I thought he looked like Billy Joel, but I can definitely see Jean Reno in there too.

The thing is, people can say all they like that they think Namor “should” look like that and they’re totally entitled to that opinion; but the fact is, he doesn’t look like that. Or at least, before this comic, he never has. Drawing Reed Richards to look exactly like Albert Einstein or Peter Parker to look like Adam Sandler or Thor to look like Brian Blessed would suit those characters perfectly fine too, but it’s just not what they look like.

Sums it up in a nutshell. "Eurotrash" be damned, that is NOT Namor.

Its a shame what this book has come to. Writing thats sloppy. An artist with no a vision that's blurred by alcohol.
And the fact that the look of namor totally took away from the book gave me no interest in reading it or picking it up for that matter. My already filthy hands wouldn't dare touch it.

Whats the matter with Marvel's branding these days- should be the real topic of discussion!

"i mean one can argue, as so many countries don’t exactly love the United States, that America is full of arrogant dicks who think they’re better than everybody else, so why not say American-Trash? But, no, it’s easier to put a slight on Europeans or Canada."

Well, America IS full of dicks who think they're better than everybody else. We call them "Bros", where I come from.

I guess you assumed that my remark was some sort of generalization about all Europeans. It wasn't, actually. And now you're the one generalizing about Americans, painting every single one of us as blind douchebag ethnocentrists.

The word should only be offensive to you if you actually are Eurotrash. If not, then you shouldn't feel insulted.

"the term, as I understand it - and the obvious problem is that everyone’s defining it differently - is generally applied to idle rich young Europeans who are all image and no substance and live to party, usually on their parents’ dime."

I'd definitely say those can be indicative of Eurotrash, but I always understood the term to be more about their general sleaziness, arrogance, and lothario-style of behavior. The fashion's a big part of it, too. Those guys are always displaying chest hair, and love going sleeveless.

"he’s’ not going to suddenly seem to be losing his hair"

Namor's always had a high hairline, with a widow's peak.

In the old Silver Age Sub-mariner Namor sometimes would walk "amongst the world of men" dressed as a hobo, but the beard he had was fake, and he would ditch completely the hobo look the moment he had to fight the Thing or Tiger Shark or whomever. This Bendis/Maleev look of Namor is so completely out of character: this is the sole hero in the Marvel Universe that Dr. Doom has any respect for, and Namor himself is so vainglorious he would never, ever look like a washed-up, down-on-his-luck gigolo who was working at a sleazy, second-rate male strip club. Even if he were homeless, the character would (like the deposed aristocrats of old) keep up the appearances befitting a monarch. If B & M were referencing the hobo look, they could have had some sign of it, like the old coat draped over his chair or Namor removing his fake beard when he came in. Will they blame the inker?

Great points, SSC. Also, the Loki was off too. "He" would look more like Valkyrie in the Ultimates than a over-buxom viking from the old Capital One ads (is that the correct reference?).

By the way, who was the blob behind the door that Osborn was threatening everyone with? Would any of them in the room be frightened/cowed by anyone other than Galactus, maybe? Is it the Dark Sentry who appeared in early in Secret Invasion (or was it an Avengers title?), or is this another dropped plot line?

@Black Rail

I'm guessing it was the Beyonder, solely because Bendis used him in his Illumanti mini-series.

It's gotta be evil Sentry (aka The Void), as The Void has been established as being a world-class threat that would give even Dr. Doom pause (and Bendis is currently the only writer handling the Sentry, so it makes sense that he'd use him - especially as the concept of this series is that the bad guys are in charge now).

maybe bendis has been handling the sentry too much...I think it explains a lot

I'm sure Maleev was fully aware that he was drawing Namor off model. It's pretty obvious that he was playing what if Namor looked like a real person instead of an idealized god-man. Namor drawn like this fits into Maleev's style and the rest of the comic. Hyper-masculine (hyper-sexualized?) clean lined Namor would not. For me, one of the cool things about comics is to see different artists' takes on characters. I will admit to enjoying watching so many of you cry when someone dares to break one of your toys.

Dudes! Did you see how Dalrymple drew Omega the Unknown!

Is "Euro-trash" similar to America's "Redneck"?

Osborn was clearly threatening them with the thing in the shadows from The Order of the Stick.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0103.html

He reminds me of Verbal (Kevin Spacey) from the Usual Suspects.
So be careful around him.

And I think Eurotrash would describe itself as a whole other SPECIES from redneck.

I so wanted this to be a joke. And it so isn't.

This trashy, hideous Namor deserves that Sue Richards with the cut-out prosti-tume from the mid-nineties.

Yuck. (And that's not even hitting on the characterizations!)

Just wanted to reiterate my apology to Joe Rice, and to apologize to Dan Apodaca. We all good?

Is “Euro-trash” similar to America’s “Redneck”?

They mean totally different sorts of people, rednecks and eurotrash have very different characteristics, but if you mean in the sense that the term only refers to a certain type of person, then yes.

I honestly didn't mind this. A sneering, scraggly-ass Namor fits just as well with his character as the classic portrayal. What I thought didn't work was the 19-year-old Hood who just arrived from the Disturbed show.

I'm good! Especially if you can find a way for me to sleep a couple extra hours . . .

I juat want to say that....I don't read this series...don't have any idea what's going on with anything but my friend linked me to this page four days ago and...I...I can't stop looking at Namor. I just can't stop. It's utterly fascinating in all its......awful, AWFUL glory.

Ever seen A Clockwork Orange? Remember when Alex's eyes are pried open and he's forced to watch terrible images? I feel like that....only after a while...I started to WANT to see Namor like this.

What's wrong with me??

This is from that episode of Namor goes to the Mayor.