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	<title>Comments on: John Seavey&#039;s Storytelling Engines:  Sgt. Rock</title>
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	<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/06/john-seaveys-storytelling-engines-sgt-rock/</link>
	<description>Comic Book Resources Presents... Comics Should Be Good!</description>
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		<title>By: jccalhoun</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/06/john-seaveys-storytelling-engines-sgt-rock/comment-page-1/#comment-700102</link>
		<dc:creator>jccalhoun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 02:18:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=21580#comment-700102</guid>
		<description>The thing that I always forget about the Sgt. Rock stories is that they are almost always relentlessly grim.  Growing up in the late 70s and 80s and watching so many gung-ho action movies I am always surprised that the stories aren&#039;t more &quot;Rock kicks ass!&quot; and that they are consistently much more &quot;war is Hell&quot; in their message.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing that I always forget about the Sgt. Rock stories is that they are almost always relentlessly grim.  Growing up in the late 70s and 80s and watching so many gung-ho action movies I am always surprised that the stories aren't more "Rock kicks ass!" and that they are consistently much more "war is Hell" in their message.</p>
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		<title>By: suedenim</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/06/john-seaveys-storytelling-engines-sgt-rock/comment-page-1/#comment-700055</link>
		<dc:creator>suedenim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 20:39:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=21580#comment-700055</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think it&#039;s a question of prehistoric times being a particularly good setting for a Spider-Man &lt;i&gt;story&lt;/i&gt; so much that his &lt;i&gt;character&lt;/i&gt; is so well-defined that you know exactly how he&#039;d &lt;i&gt;act&lt;/i&gt; in that scenario.  It&#039;s easy to imagine what he&#039;d do, what wisecracks he&#039;d make, etc.

It&#039;s a trait he shares, IMO, with Ben Grimm - their characters, traits, voices, etc., are so well-defined that they&#039;re really hard to screw up.  Oh, sure, there have been many crappy Spidey or Thing stories over the years, but the majority of them are crappy for some reason *other* than being written way out-of-character.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don't think it's a question of prehistoric times being a particularly good setting for a Spider-Man <i>story</i> so much that his <i>character</i> is so well-defined that you know exactly how he'd <i>act</i> in that scenario.  It's easy to imagine what he'd do, what wisecracks he'd make, etc.</p>
<p>It's a trait he shares, IMO, with Ben Grimm - their characters, traits, voices, etc., are so well-defined that they're really hard to screw up.  Oh, sure, there have been many crappy Spidey or Thing stories over the years, but the majority of them are crappy for some reason *other* than being written way out-of-character.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/06/john-seaveys-storytelling-engines-sgt-rock/comment-page-1/#comment-700052</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 20:06:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=21580#comment-700052</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not so sure I agree about dropping Spider-Man into prehistoric times.  I think a more grounded (well, as Marvel comics go), modern New York setting is just as important for a successful Spidey story as Pete&#039;s personality.  Even stories that are a little more sci-fi than usual don&#039;t work so well for me, like that John Romita Jr. one where Mysterio shrinks Spidey into a miniature theme park of horrors...of course, it turns out to just be hypnosis, but that&#039;s another matter entirely.  Basically, I think we (the readers) have to be able to picture ourselves as Spider-Man, and that doesn&#039;t work so well in WWII or outer space.  Which is why I don&#039;t like Spider-Man being an Avenger, I suppose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm not so sure I agree about dropping Spider-Man into prehistoric times.  I think a more grounded (well, as Marvel comics go), modern New York setting is just as important for a successful Spidey story as Pete's personality.  Even stories that are a little more sci-fi than usual don't work so well for me, like that John Romita Jr. one where Mysterio shrinks Spidey into a miniature theme park of horrors...of course, it turns out to just be hypnosis, but that's another matter entirely.  Basically, I think we (the readers) have to be able to picture ourselves as Spider-Man, and that doesn't work so well in WWII or outer space.  Which is why I don't like Spider-Man being an Avenger, I suppose.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/06/john-seaveys-storytelling-engines-sgt-rock/comment-page-1/#comment-700044</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 18:51:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=21580#comment-700044</guid>
		<description>suedenim:  Nice take on Fury being a &quot;fighter&quot;.  That&#039;s so true on many fronts.  If he wasn&#039;t fighting the enemy, he was duking it out with Bull McGivney.  I also remember him showing up in Captain America every once in a while, goading the &quot;old soldier&quot; into fighting him, be it either for Cap looking at the Countessa &quot; the wrong way&quot; or just to &quot;test his reflexes&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>suedenim:  Nice take on Fury being a "fighter".  That's so true on many fronts.  If he wasn't fighting the enemy, he was duking it out with Bull McGivney.  I also remember him showing up in Captain America every once in a while, goading the "old soldier" into fighting him, be it either for Cap looking at the Countessa " the wrong way" or just to "test his reflexes".</p>
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		<title>By: suedenim</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/06/john-seaveys-storytelling-engines-sgt-rock/comment-page-1/#comment-700026</link>
		<dc:creator>suedenim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 15:37:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=21580#comment-700026</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m pretty sure Blackhawk and Sgt. Rock never met, unless it was some incidental thing (like in a George Perez Crisis panel with 250 other characters or somesuch.)  It never happened in the Evanier/Spiegle Blackhawk series, at least.  

And in the Silver Age, remember that &lt;i&gt;Blackhawk&lt;/i&gt; was a *contemporary* feature, never a WWII &quot;period piece.&quot;  So having Rock meet Blackhawk was about as likely as him meeting, say, Aquaman.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm pretty sure Blackhawk and Sgt. Rock never met, unless it was some incidental thing (like in a George Perez Crisis panel with 250 other characters or somesuch.)  It never happened in the Evanier/Spiegle Blackhawk series, at least.  </p>
<p>And in the Silver Age, remember that <i>Blackhawk</i> was a *contemporary* feature, never a WWII "period piece."  So having Rock meet Blackhawk was about as likely as him meeting, say, Aquaman.</p>
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		<title>By: googum</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/06/john-seaveys-storytelling-engines-sgt-rock/comment-page-1/#comment-700024</link>
		<dc:creator>googum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 15:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=21580#comment-700024</guid>
		<description>Deco&#039;s right about right:  Fury&#039;s a cooler character, and transplants to other settings (spy stuff, superhero stuff, etc.) but Rock had a better book.  

Did Rock ever meet Blackhawk, in the comics?  I don&#039;t remember if they saw each on the &lt;b&gt;Justice League&lt;/b&gt; cartoon.   I tried it myself &lt;a href=&quot;http://random-happenstance.blogspot.com/2008/04/interlude.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;, and I remember Rock&#039;s cameo in the Garth Ennis &lt;b&gt;Enemy Ace&lt;/b&gt;, but I&#039;m drawing a blank.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Deco's right about right:  Fury's a cooler character, and transplants to other settings (spy stuff, superhero stuff, etc.) but Rock had a better book.  </p>
<p>Did Rock ever meet Blackhawk, in the comics?  I don't remember if they saw each on the <b>Justice League</b> cartoon.   I tried it myself <a href="http://random-happenstance.blogspot.com/2008/04/interlude.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>, and I remember Rock's cameo in the Garth Ennis <b>Enemy Ace</b>, but I'm drawing a blank.</p>
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		<title>By: suedenim</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/06/john-seaveys-storytelling-engines-sgt-rock/comment-page-1/#comment-700008</link>
		<dc:creator>suedenim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:48:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=21580#comment-700008</guid>
		<description>IIRC, near the end of the Giffen Suicide Squad series, there might have been a hint that Rock and Bulldozer weren&#039;t exactly who they appeared to be.  Perhaps a walk-back after they knew the series was canceled.

In any case, I don&#039;t think Rock necessarily has to die as per Kanigher, but it *is* totally wrongheaded to have him running a secret black ops organization or being a general and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (which is just wrong, wrong, wrong, on about six different levels.)

In my mind, the big difference between Fury and Rock is that Nick Fury is a fighter.  The kind of guy who, when there&#039;s *not* a fight going on, he goes out to find one or start one, because that&#039;s what he *is*.

I always saw Frank Rock, though, as the epitome of the &quot;citizen soldier.&quot;  Someone who did his duty, and was incredibly good at it, but had no desire to be a career soldier or an officer.  After the war, he went back home to Western Pennsylvania and did construction work, eventually started his own business, married, had a family.  Retired comfortably in Florida, where he recently passed away.  

And he never, *ever*, talked about what he did in the war, except in the vaguest terms.  This year, as his kids and grandchildren went through his stuff, they discovered an old footlocker full of evidence of his amazing wartime exploits.  They had no idea until then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IIRC, near the end of the Giffen Suicide Squad series, there might have been a hint that Rock and Bulldozer weren't exactly who they appeared to be.  Perhaps a walk-back after they knew the series was canceled.</p>
<p>In any case, I don't think Rock necessarily has to die as per Kanigher, but it *is* totally wrongheaded to have him running a secret black ops organization or being a general and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (which is just wrong, wrong, wrong, on about six different levels.)</p>
<p>In my mind, the big difference between Fury and Rock is that Nick Fury is a fighter.  The kind of guy who, when there's *not* a fight going on, he goes out to find one or start one, because that's what he *is*.</p>
<p>I always saw Frank Rock, though, as the epitome of the "citizen soldier."  Someone who did his duty, and was incredibly good at it, but had no desire to be a career soldier or an officer.  After the war, he went back home to Western Pennsylvania and did construction work, eventually started his own business, married, had a family.  Retired comfortably in Florida, where he recently passed away.  </p>
<p>And he never, *ever*, talked about what he did in the war, except in the vaguest terms.  This year, as his kids and grandchildren went through his stuff, they discovered an old footlocker full of evidence of his amazing wartime exploits.  They had no idea until then.</p>
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		<title>By: John Seavey</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/06/john-seaveys-storytelling-engines-sgt-rock/comment-page-1/#comment-700006</link>
		<dc:creator>John Seavey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:08:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=21580#comment-700006</guid>
		<description>Depends on who you ask. Kanigher said no, any &quot;Sergeant Rocks&quot; that appeared post-WWII were just someone else with the same name (it is a pretty common name, after all.) But the writers who were writing those stories, including Giffen and Haney, intended for the character to be &quot;the&quot; Frank Rock.

Since Kanigher never wrote an actual death story, though, I think that you&#039;d have to assume, from a continuity standpoint, that the &quot;last bullet&quot; story is apocryphal and that post-war appearances of the Sarge are what they seem to be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Depends on who you ask. Kanigher said no, any "Sergeant Rocks" that appeared post-WWII were just someone else with the same name (it is a pretty common name, after all.) But the writers who were writing those stories, including Giffen and Haney, intended for the character to be "the" Frank Rock.</p>
<p>Since Kanigher never wrote an actual death story, though, I think that you'd have to assume, from a continuity standpoint, that the "last bullet" story is apocryphal and that post-war appearances of the Sarge are what they seem to be.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/06/john-seaveys-storytelling-engines-sgt-rock/comment-page-1/#comment-699975</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 03:32:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=21580#comment-699975</guid>
		<description>What about the Sgt. Rock and Dozer that showed up in Keith Giffen&#039;s Suicide Squad? Are they the same people?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about the Sgt. Rock and Dozer that showed up in Keith Giffen's Suicide Squad? Are they the same people?</p>
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		<title>By: Deco</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/06/john-seaveys-storytelling-engines-sgt-rock/comment-page-1/#comment-699953</link>
		<dc:creator>Deco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 23:04:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=21580#comment-699953</guid>
		<description>Actually Fury&#039;s cooler than Rock, but Rock was a better book. But nuthin&#039; beats the &quot;voice&quot; Stan managed for Fury &amp; Dum Dum (it continued in the early Shield stories too, before Steranko came on). Perfect tough-guy banter. Rock was not so much into the banter, b/c he was much more &quot;sensitive&quot; (realistic).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually Fury's cooler than Rock, but Rock was a better book. But nuthin' beats the "voice" Stan managed for Fury &amp; Dum Dum (it continued in the early Shield stories too, before Steranko came on). Perfect tough-guy banter. Rock was not so much into the banter, b/c he was much more "sensitive" (realistic).</p>
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		<title>By: sgt rawk</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/06/john-seaveys-storytelling-engines-sgt-rock/comment-page-1/#comment-699924</link>
		<dc:creator>sgt rawk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:57:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=21580#comment-699924</guid>
		<description>Say it with me : Sgt Rock was cooler than Fury. Better art, better writing, better characters, better everything. Now, who&#039;s better Fury or Captain Savage and his Leather-Neck Raiders? (Issue #15 of which features a letter from a young Gary Groth!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Say it with me : Sgt Rock was cooler than Fury. Better art, better writing, better characters, better everything. Now, who's better Fury or Captain Savage and his Leather-Neck Raiders? (Issue #15 of which features a letter from a young Gary Groth!)</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/06/john-seaveys-storytelling-engines-sgt-rock/comment-page-1/#comment-699921</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:51:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=21580#comment-699921</guid>
		<description>...or if he DID survive, he was out of the service and sitting around a VFW hall, drinking Pabst and talking smack about Korean communists. A far cry from his man-of-action days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>...or if he DID survive, he was out of the service and sitting around a VFW hall, drinking Pabst and talking smack about Korean communists. A far cry from his man-of-action days.</p>
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		<title>By: John Seavey</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/06/john-seaveys-storytelling-engines-sgt-rock/comment-page-1/#comment-699913</link>
		<dc:creator>John Seavey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:14:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=21580#comment-699913</guid>
		<description>My picture of it, mentally, was that Rock was involved in mop-up operations, and his squad accepted the surrender of one of the last hold-out units. The commander ordered his men to stand down, Rock and his men relaxed...and one jittery young soldier panicked and got off a shot before his own men grabbed his gun away from him. That was the bullet that killed Frank Rock.

Kanigher&#039;s point, though, was that all of the appearances of Rock after WWII are non-canonical in his book. As far as he was concerned, Rock didn&#039;t survive the war.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My picture of it, mentally, was that Rock was involved in mop-up operations, and his squad accepted the surrender of one of the last hold-out units. The commander ordered his men to stand down, Rock and his men relaxed...and one jittery young soldier panicked and got off a shot before his own men grabbed his gun away from him. That was the bullet that killed Frank Rock.</p>
<p>Kanigher's point, though, was that all of the appearances of Rock after WWII are non-canonical in his book. As far as he was concerned, Rock didn't survive the war.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff R</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/06/john-seaveys-storytelling-engines-sgt-rock/comment-page-1/#comment-699891</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 18:56:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=21580#comment-699891</guid>
		<description>They could always do some cheat around it, with the last bullet of WWII being in some museum somewhere and wind up getting used by some super-villain during a team-up between a nonegenarian Rock and Batman or somesuch...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They could always do some cheat around it, with the last bullet of WWII being in some museum somewhere and wind up getting used by some super-villain during a team-up between a nonegenarian Rock and Batman or somesuch...</p>
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		<title>By: Blackjak</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/06/john-seaveys-storytelling-engines-sgt-rock/comment-page-1/#comment-699881</link>
		<dc:creator>Blackjak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 18:42:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=21580#comment-699881</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;See, I still don’t buy that “last bullet fired in World War II” death for Rock. If the last bullet fired killed Rock, then what killed the guy that killed Rock? Did Bulldozer have to choke him to death or something? (If Rock was killed by accident or friendly fire, that would kill all joy.) &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Unless it was something like the John Wayne sniper bullet at the end of &lt;i&gt;The Sands of Iwo Jima&lt;/i&gt;...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>See, I still don’t buy that “last bullet fired in World War II” death for Rock. If the last bullet fired killed Rock, then what killed the guy that killed Rock? Did Bulldozer have to choke him to death or something? (If Rock was killed by accident or friendly fire, that would kill all joy.) </p></blockquote>
<p>Unless it was something like the John Wayne sniper bullet at the end of <i>The Sands of Iwo Jima</i>...</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/06/john-seaveys-storytelling-engines-sgt-rock/comment-page-1/#comment-699880</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 18:37:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=21580#comment-699880</guid>
		<description>Who was better, Rock or Fury?  I enjoyed both very much in the 60&#039;s.  Rock (and Easy Co.) appeared more realistic, but the interaction Fury had with his Commandos, his superiors and his rivals made for much more of a fun read.  It&#039;s Fury&#039;s continuing storylines (such as Eric Koenig&#039;s phoney &quot;heel turn&quot; that tips the scales for me.  Fury 1, Rock 0.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who was better, Rock or Fury?  I enjoyed both very much in the 60's.  Rock (and Easy Co.) appeared more realistic, but the interaction Fury had with his Commandos, his superiors and his rivals made for much more of a fun read.  It's Fury's continuing storylines (such as Eric Koenig's phoney "heel turn" that tips the scales for me.  Fury 1, Rock 0.</p>
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		<title>By: googum</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/06/john-seaveys-storytelling-engines-sgt-rock/comment-page-1/#comment-699878</link>
		<dc:creator>googum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 18:26:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=21580#comment-699878</guid>
		<description>See, I still don&#039;t buy that &quot;last bullet fired in World War II&quot; death for Rock.  If the last bullet fired killed Rock, then what killed the guy that killed Rock?  Did Bulldozer have to choke him to death or something?  (If Rock was killed by accident or friendly fire, that would kill all joy.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See, I still don't buy that "last bullet fired in World War II" death for Rock.  If the last bullet fired killed Rock, then what killed the guy that killed Rock?  Did Bulldozer have to choke him to death or something?  (If Rock was killed by accident or friendly fire, that would kill all joy.)</p>
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		<title>By: Blackjak</title>
		<link>http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/06/john-seaveys-storytelling-engines-sgt-rock/comment-page-1/#comment-699872</link>
		<dc:creator>Blackjak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 18:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=21580#comment-699872</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;In fact, creator Bob Kanigher claimed at one point that Rock was killed by the last bullet fired in World War II.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Except for his B&amp;B Universe self, who stayed around to team up with Batman!  :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>In fact, creator Bob Kanigher claimed at one point that Rock was killed by the last bullet fired in World War II.</p></blockquote>
<p>Except for his B&amp;B Universe self, who stayed around to team up with Batman!  <img src='http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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