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Tomasi’s run of Nightwing are the only issues of the series I own. I just kept hearing good things about it soon after he took over, and picked up the first three or so issues. After reading them, I added the title to my pull list. It’s a shame it has to end so early. My hope is that, once Battle for the Cowl concludes, Dick is Batman & Tim is sill Robin, and Tomasi handles the writing on the newly announced Batman & Robin series. Just like you said, the dialogue between them was fantastic. Here’s to more Dick Grayson in Tomasi’s future.

Tomasi went to the fans and asked them what they wanted. Directly, to the hardest core DC fans there were. And then he listened and implemented it into the book. I think he implemented too much of it. Dick was made to be almost too impressive. It was absolutely a case of giving the fans what they wanted instead of what they needed. But the execution was still pretty good, and in some ways, it was refreshing.

Regardless, because of it, he’s got a pretty loyal fanbase now.

I have to admit having heard all the bad stuff about this book over the years (going back to OYL) I was really pleasantly suprised when I picked it up because of the alleged “RIP” crossover… Got me really hooked. I didn’t mind the blood splattered issue, as I thought it was more to do with Dick’s perception being altered by the Scarecrow’s drug…

Yeah, I’ll miss it a lot. Full of simple, beautiful little moments. For example, that scene where the police officer wants his picture taken with Nightwing and Superman. I was certain that guy was going to come back as a villain or a henchman or something, but he didn’t. It was just a nice little happening.

Count me among fans of Tomasi’s Nightwing: I felt that he was the first writer to really make Nightwing work on his own (Dixon was always too interested in making Nightwing into Batman Lite, and the less said about the other writers, the better). I did dislike Nightwing’s overreliance on the glider gimmick, though: that thing could do anything.

But for the most part, it really felt like Nightwing was getting somewhere. He was back in New York instead of the stupid, stupid, stupid Bludhaven, was getting a good mix of villains, some good Robin moments, etc. I was hoping to see Tomasi deal more with the Barbara situation, etc.

I regret we’ll never get to see a Dick Grayson/Carter Hall teamup at a museum, too. Curators of Justice!

The shame is that Tomasi didn’t follow directly after Dixon. All the background mechanics you mention — setting, job, personal life, romances, integration of superheroics, relationship with Tim — were all much better defined and definable under Dixon; Tomasi did a good job with what he had available, but Bludhaven really was the way to go. But where Dixon did a remarkable job of establishing Nightwing as a solo hero, he didn’t spend much time on Dick’s relationships in the wider DCU. And really, that’s where the post-Dixon writer should have gone — Dixon had pretty well covered solo stuff, it was time to branch out a little. And that’s exactly where Tomasi’s run stood out: in making Dick a fulcrum of the wider hero community. Dick is the inheritor of Superman’s mantle, not Batman’s — he’s eternally optimistic, competent to the point of self-assuredness but without arrogance, a friend to everyone, a natural leader, and a distinct icon (both as the original Robin and as the first sidekick to go non-legacy (i.e., he didn’t go from Kid Flash to Flash)). Tomasi had the right idea, but it was about a hundred issues too late. And now it looks like DC is going to go in, IMO, the exact wrong direction with Dick, tying him even closer to Batman and pulling him away from the distinction that Dixon and Tomasi worked so hard to define.

Someday, someone’s going to realize that Dick Grayson is what Peter Parker would be if he were trained by Batman to take over for Superman. But if all he’s going to be is the backup Batman to Bruce Favre, he might as well just BE Batman-Lite.

“I regret we’ll never get to see a Dick Grayson/Carter Hall teamup at a museum, too. Curators of Justice!”

I know! That would’ve been sweet.

As someone who went to school in Washington Heights, I found Tomasi’s attention to the area fascinating. It really was a good run.

You’d probably like Lethem’s Omega the Unknown for similar reasons, Morts.

I really liked Tomasi’s run, but then I seem to be one of the rare people who enjoyed pretty much all the different writers’ work on Nightwing. I’m very sad to see the title go.

What was the Band reference he made? I totally missed that!

I friggin’ loved Tomasi’s run. It was the much needed shot in the arm this series needed. I really hope they’ll find a way for him to write the character again. Maybe he can take over Titans? That way Wally will be handled well, too. It should alleviate the fears a lot of Wally fans have now that Barry’s back.

Tomasi is the best writer no one talks about. His Nightwing run made Dick the single most likable hero in comics.

I enjoyed what I read of Tomasi’s run for essentially the same reasons as listed here, but #153 was something I’d like to forget. Dick’s would-be introspective monologue was painfully pedestrian, and the whole issue just felt hokey. I wouldn’t guess whether it was from lack of possible story elements or a course dictated from above, but the six-page Origins and Omens story was so much of a better reflection of the character than the mopey house-cleaner and lightbulb-changer of the main feature.

IMO, the exact wrong direction with Dick, tying him even closer to Batman and pulling him away from the distinction that Dixon and Tomasi worked so hard to define.

Why is it taken as gospel that this is the wrong direction for Dick Grayson? Because Marv Wolfman declared it as such 30 years ago and people can’t move past one fan-turned-pro’s characterization of the guy? With every other teen hero, it’s no biggie to follow in the mentor’s direction, yet it’s considered such a horrible travesty if that route is taken with Dick Grayson. When Kid Flash became the Flash, people didn’t say it was a regression for the character and if Wolfman didn’t create the “Dick Grayson, whiny loser with daddy issues” characterization in New Teen Titans, no one would be calling the idea of Dick becoming Batman a major regression either.

Why is it taken as gospel that this is the wrong direction for Dick Grayson?

It’s NOT gospel. I know I’ve written things on this very site suggesting that those writers that are obsessed with moving Dick AWAY from Batman are doing it all wrong.

To my mind, the thing that makes Dick Grayson fun is the Bat connection. Take that away from him and Nightwing’s just another generic spandex athlete, nothing to really separate him from Ted Kord or Peter Cannon or any one of a dozen others.

And the thing that makes Dick Grayson unique is that he’s the only guy in the DCU that isn’t afraid of Batman. He just thinks of him as, you know, Dad in one of his moods. What I loved about Tomasi’s Nightwing is that he seemed to understand that and was extrapolating on it, and except for a couple of missteps here and there he really had found a nice groove on the book. I loved his characterization of Dick as a collegiate sort of guy who was essentially dropping by the Batcave on weekends to do his laundry. That cracked me up.

Somebody else said it. If Tomasi had come on the book after Dixon I think it would have been a monster hit.

Agreed.

Peter Tomasi’s Nightwing just plain worked. And it sucks that its over before it should have been.

Well, the primary reason is because it’s been pretty firmly established that Batman is Bruce Wayne. It’s not a legacy to be passed on to Dick or Tim or Jean-Paul, at least in the sense that they’re gonna dress up as six-foot bats and terrorize Gotham City’s underworld. Battle for the Cowl notwithstanding, the central issue of the relationship that Bruce has to everyone, and by default the relationship those close to him have to their very superheroic careers, is how dominant the Bat is to Bruce’s self but is rather irrelevant to everyone else. It’s fun to play Elseworlds and alternate futures where Tim or Dick or Jason is Batman, but the characters as presented to us at least post-CRISIS and probably much earlier depend on Batman uniquely equating to Bruce Wayne. It’s the wrong direction for Dick because it’s the wrong direction for Batman.

The secondary reason, yes, is that Marv Wolfman made Dick Nightwing and not Kid Batman. And for as much as that may seem like a poor choice, it’s the one that has stuck for 30 years, and is the single-most defining post-origin moment in the history of the Batman mythos (well, so long as you consider Robin’s ‘TEC #38 intro as part of mythos-origin). More than Harvey Dent’s transformation into Two-Face, more than Jim Gordon’s ascent to GCPD Commissioner, more than Barbara becoming Batgirl and being shot by Joker and becoming Oracle, more than Jason’s death, more than Bane — Dick Grayson becoming Nightwing is the most important event in the serial of Batman’s life (Jason’s death might be bigger, but it is essentially dependent upon Dick becoming Nightwing in the first place for a second Robin to be needed). Personally, I would say that the mythos (mostly Dixon and O’Neill) has adjusted Marv’s “daddy issues” Nightwing to a more character-suited “Batman issues” Nightwing, but the simple truth is that the character has since transcended his motivations. Should Dick Grayson become Batman if Bruce dies? I think that’s pretty much a given, and the curveball of Azbats only strengthens the argument. But Bruce Wayne is NOT DEAD, so why go there? Further rooting Dick into the “back-up Batman” role just means that he’ll forever be on the sidelines waiting for Bruce to die, which Bruce will never do (unlike legacy characters like Barry, who did die and let his back-up Flash take over, as he sort of got from Jay Garrick, and Wally in turn did for Bart); the only productive direction for Dick as a character is to work to establish Nightwing as independent from the Batcave, not necessarily (and IMO, not ideally) at odds with Batman, but certainly an entity in his own right (though I guess you could always make him Robin again).

That’s why I like the idea of tying the Nightwing identity to Superman and the Teen Titans. Dick’s in his father’s (Bruce’s) line of work, but he takes after his uncle (Clark) and has grown to become executive material in his own right. The argument all these “Dick becomes Batman” stories makes is, essentially, that for all he does on his own, he’s still just an trust-fund kid waiting to come into his inheritance. Which he IS, but to what purpose? What does that tell us about Dick, about the nature of heroism, about the morality play, about humanity? It minimizes Dick in order to tell us something that we already knew (that, unless plot-induced chicanery is involved, Dick Grayson is Batman’s heir), but that can never be proven. But to be SUPERMAN’s heir (a guy who, for all that he supposedly inspires people, can really only point to John Henry Irons for an example)? To make his future be the leadership of the Titans (or “tomorrow’s JLA,” in this instance)? To make him all about transcending Batman, to be the living example of what Bruce Wayne wishes he could be but cannot escape the demons to become? THOSE are reasons why Nightwing should exist in the first place, and they exponentially decrease the closer to replacement-Batman he gets. He doesn’t have to go live in Titans Tower (as I said, I think Bludhaven was the optimal balance, but Dixon only showed us one side of that balance), but he can’t be so intrinsically tied to Batman that it overwhelms everything else.

Well, the primary reason is because it’s been pretty firmly established that Batman is Bruce Wayne. It’s not a legacy to be passed on to Dick or Tim or Jean-Paul, at least in the sense that they’re gonna dress up as six-foot bats and terrorize Gotham City’s underworld.

It only became firmly established that only Bruce can be Batman AFTER Wolfman turned Dick Grayson into a whiny wimp with daddy issues. Once Wolfman drilled it into everyone’s heads that Dick wanted to distance himself from Batman’s world and was too much of a wuss to handle being in Bruce’s shadow, one of the ways to reinforce that Dick would never take up the mantle was to create the notion that only Bruce could ever be Batman. But in Golden Age and Silver Age DC it was often implied that that was exactly what Dick Grayson was being groomed for and that he was totally fine with it. There was even a series of imaginary stories where it was imagined what it would be like after Bruce Wayne retired with Dick Grayson as the new Batman and Bruce Wayne’s son as the new Robin.

The secondary reason, yes, is that Marv Wolfman made Dick Nightwing and not Kid Batman. And for as much as that may seem like a poor choice, it’s the one that has stuck for 30 years, and is the single-most defining post-origin moment in the history of the Batman mythos (well, so long as you consider Robin’s ‘TEC #38 intro as part of mythos-origin). More than Harvey Dent’s transformation into Two-Face, more than Jim Gordon’s ascent to GCPD Commissioner, more than Barbara becoming Batgirl and being shot by Joker and becoming Oracle, more than Jason’s death, more than Bane — Dick Grayson becoming Nightwing is the most important event in the serial of Batman’s life (Jason’s death might be bigger, but it is essentially dependent upon Dick becoming Nightwing in the first place for a second Robin to be needed).

Yes, it is the single most defining post-origin moment in the Bat-mythos, as it cemented Dick Grayson as an imcompetent loser with daddy issues who can’t win a fight and cries a lot whenever someone makes him think of how Batman didn’t hug him enough while he was growing up. How often have we been subjected to some evil demon like Trigon possessing him to make him face his feelings of bat-inadequacy or seeing him hit with Scarecrow gas and he starts fearing his Bat-daddy issues again…that’s progress? People say Wolfman matured him, but I read some Batman Chronicles reprints or Dynamic Duo DC archives and the Golden Age and Silver Age version of Nightwing is way more mature, self-assured, emotionally balanced, competent and self-confident than the version of Dick Grayson we got after Wolfman “made him his own man.” How “making someone his own man” equals “endlessly focusing on his inadequacies when compared to someone else” is beyond me.

That’s why I like the idea of tying the Nightwing identity to Superman and the Teen Titans. Dick’s in his father’s (Bruce’s) line of work, but he takes after his uncle (Clark) and has grown to become executive material in his own right. The argument all these “Dick becomes Batman” stories makes is, essentially, that for all he does on his own, he’s still just an trust-fund kid waiting to come into his inheritance. Which he IS, but to what purpose? What does that tell us about Dick, about the nature of heroism, about the morality play, about humanity? It minimizes Dick in order to tell us something that we already knew (that, unless plot-induced chicanery is involved, Dick Grayson is Batman’s heir), but that can never be proven. But to be SUPERMAN’s heir (a guy who, for all that he supposedly inspires people, can really only point to John Henry Irons for an example)? To make his future be the leadership of the Titans (or “tomorrow’s JLA,” in this instance)? To make him all about transcending Batman, to be the living example of what Bruce Wayne wishes he could be but cannot escape the demons to become? THOSE are reasons why Nightwing should exist in the first place, and they exponentially decrease the closer to replacement-Batman he gets. He doesn’t have to go live in Titans Tower (as I said, I think Bludhaven was the optimal balance, but Dixon only showed us one side of that balance), but he can’t be so intrinsically tied to Batman that it overwhelms everything else.

So only Bruce Wayne can be Batman, but Dick Grayson makes sense as living to be Superman’s heir? That makes no sense. If any DC character, much more than Bruce Wayne, has historically proven to be inextricably tied to his secret identity, it’s Clark Kent/Superman. He’s the one character that should never have a legacy, period. He’s the Last Son of Krypton.

People really need to let New Teen Titans go. Yes, it was once as popular as X-Men and DC’s biggest seller, and much like Al Bundy’s big game at Polk High, it’s tempting to relive the glory days of the best years of your life, but it was just one writer’s take on the character, and ultimately it failed and hemorrhaged readers. It was a low seller for a lot longer than it was a top seller, and that should be a sign that over the long run it probably just wasn’t that good a formula. It drove fans away. I know it’s trendy to unfairly blame a great artist Eduardo Barretto for that, but I’m sure the fact that it had more hugs and family insecuriies than a season of Eight is Enough is a bigger reason for its decline. That and the fact they won as many fights as Peter Buckley probably didn’t help.

“There was even a series of imaginary stories where it was imagined what it would be like after Bruce Wayne retired with Dick Grayson as the new Batman and Bruce Wayne’s son as the new Robin.”

IMAGINARY stories. Look, I don’t disagree that Dick isn’t ostensibly Batman’s heir, just that it WILL NEVER ACTUALLY HAPPEN, so why keep up the charade? I’m sure that there were some pretty nifty shortstops in the Baltimore Orioles farm system in the ’80s, but Cal Ripken Jr. wasn’t going anywhere, so they all moved on to other teams. Well, Nightwing can still be an all-star shortstop, just not for the Gotham Batmen.

“How “making someone his own man” equals “endlessly focusing on his inadequacies when compared to someone else” is beyond me.”

It doesn’t. I’m not advocating crappy writing, I’m advocating a particular paradigm. Keeping Dick under Batman’s shadow doesn’t prevent him from being a whiny bitch (just ask post-CRISIS Jason Todd), but it does prevent him from certain storytelling avenues that he is uniquely suited to while outside of Batman’s shadow. Like I said, it’s not a celebration of Wolfman’s characterization, which I agree was pretty poor in this regard, and led to some atrocious decisions further down the line; it’s a recognition that Wolfman stumbled upon a dynamic that everyone writes around but no one quite seems to write ABOUT.

“So only Bruce Wayne can be Batman, but Dick Grayson makes sense as living to be Superman’s heir?”

Yes. Batman is a means that only one person can take unto himself toward an end that only ultimately satisfies that same person — it is an expression of both Bruce Wayne’s unique ability and his unique desires. Superman is almost the exact oppposite: a means that everyone should be able to take unto themselves toward a universal end — he is an ideal. The contrast of human Bruce and superhuman Superman is only superficial to what would be considered their “worth.” Batman’s worth is the genius, dedication, and single-minded drive of Bruce Wayne; Superman’s worth is the inspiration and moral leadership of Clark Kent. Superman has a legacy that he can pass on, Batman does not. And the beauty of Superman’s legacy is that it can be inherited while he still lives — the DCU is a living testament to that fact. I just happen to think that Dick is the one most suited to assume the tangibile role of that legacy — leader of the coming generation — to the point where in many ways he already has assumed it from Superman (heroes may respect Superman, but they KNOW Dick, and are more apt to extend trust). It’s more important to the stories of TODAY that Dick will inherit Superman’s legacy than it is to know that he’ll inherit Batman’s.

I saw a posting about Nightwing. I said “I wish I could bet money that T will rant about Marv Wolfman because he has to reflexively complain about Wolfman every time a posting about Nightwing or the New Teen Titans appears. Then I will be a rich man”. He did but because I only wished it I am still poor. That is the way life is sometimes.

I was surprised to see those panels in #153 that showed Dick coming into Gotham on the train. They were almost identical to the shots of Gordon coming into Gotham during Miller’s year one.

I saw a posting about Nightwing. I said “I wish I could bet money that T will rant about Marv Wolfman because he has to reflexively complain about Wolfman every time a posting about Nightwing or the New Teen Titans appears. Then I will be a rich man”. He did but because I only wished it I am still poor. That is the way life is sometimes.

In each Dick Grayson thread, someone always has to reflexively say that Marv Wolfman made Dick Grayson into his own man, took him out of Batman’s shadow, and that it’s a horrible thing to bring Dick Grayson back into Batman’s world. I disagree, so I usually respond to it. So why do you only focus on what I reflexively say about Dick Grayson when there are other people just as guilty of repeating talking points about the character as well?

In each Dick Grayson thread, someone always has to reflexively say that Marv Wolfman made Dick Grayson into his own man, took him out of Batman’s shadow, and that it’s a horrible thing to bring Dick Grayson back into Batman’s world. I disagree, so I usually respond to it. So why do you only focus on what I reflexively say about Dick Grayson when there are other people just as guilty of repeating talking points about the character as well?

Um…because no one even mentioned Wolfman’s Nightwing until you turned up. In fact you responded to someone express their undying love of Chuck Dixon to bring up Marv Wolfman.

Batman is not a legacy hero. DC realized that years ago (until Didio took over). When the Earth Two Batman retired/died no one else took over the Batman mantle. Other characters honored him, particularly his daughter Helena as The Huntress and Dick as Robin, but no one else became Batman. The notion that only Bruce Wayne could be Batman has existed since the mid-1960′s (around the time those imaginary stories stopped being written).

I actually started reading Green Lantern Corps and The Mighty based on Tomasi’s Nightwing run. He had a good grasp on the character and made him seem real to me.

What about # 149? I´d like to see your POV, Brian, because i don´t agree with Greg.

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/10/06/has-dc-sunk-this-low/

Um…because no one even mentioned Wolfman’s Nightwing until you turned up. In fact you responded to someone express their undying love of Chuck Dixon to bring up Marv Wolfman.

Um…someone brought up that bringing Dick Grayson closer to the Batuniverse is wrong and a step in the wrong direction for the character. Even though the commenter was discussing that idea in relation to Chuck Dixon specifically, it is a meme that originate with Marv Wolfman. Even when Dixon was writing stories about removing Nightwing from “the shadow of the Bat,” he was continuing an idea that Wolfman originated. Every writer that acts like Dick Grayson is regressing by embracing his role as Batman’s prize protege is paying homage to and continuing a characterization begun by Wolfman. Which I’m sure you totally realize but just want to give me a hard time.

Keeping Dick under Batman’s shadow doesn’t prevent him from being a whiny bitch (just ask post-CRISIS Jason Todd),

It’s funny people say this, as I found Jason Todd to be much less whiny and bitchy than Nightwing. He was real take charge and kick ass as Red Hood, and gave off a real air of competence. Compare how he handled the Joker in the Red Hood storyline compared to how the Joker played Nightwing as a patsy in the Last Laugh storyline, causing Nightwing to run off for a few issues to have a good cry about how he almost lost controlled and got played for a fool.

Is any of this in trade yet? I’ll support it when DC puts them out, as it sounds right up my alley. Of course, that’s likely 2011 given how they schedule their trades…

Is any of this in trade yet? I’ll support it when DC puts them out, as it sounds right up my alley. Of course, that’s likely 2011 given how they schedule their trades…

Yes, the first seven issues are collected in a trade called Nightwing: Freefall.

I presume the rest will follow – you know the RIP stuff will be collected!

What about # 149? I´d like to see your POV, Brian, because i don´t agree with Greg.

It was the low point in the run, although I certainly did not have the violent reaction against it that a few readers did, like Greg.

I personally blame the fact that the storyline seemed like it was padded out to conclude in #150, so #149 was just a wasted issue. Even if you take away all the blood and suspect dramatic tension regarding the death of the female character (which yes, was reversed later on, but that doesn’t really excuse #149), the issue was still “hero imagines his villains are attacking him,” which just screams out “we’re padding here.”

If you cut that issue, the RIP arc is a lot better as a whole.

Yesirree, I want the comic back and I want Tomasi too – he never even had time to show us Dick’s supporting cast over any length of time. I hate that good books are hostages to events in other titles..

Since we’re talking trades, a quick plug for the Wolfman trade that includes the excellent Annual by Andreyko and Bennett – a really good story explaining exactly what happened to the Dick / Babs relationship (which was the one aspect I didn’t like about Tomasi’s run – while Dick probably shouldn’t be *too* hung up on Barbara, she should still be as much of a presence in his life as Tim or Bruce… then again, I guess he did have her there for the lengthy chat in #150).

I really liked how Tomasi knew to borrow the premise of several of the best issues of Dixon’s run – namely that putting Tim and Dick into close proximity for 22 pages will produce a good character study of both. Nightwing #25, with them talking about life, girls and Batman while blindfolded and running on top of a train, is still my favourite issue of the series, but the issue here with them talking over Dick’s new status quo (“Was Power Girl there” “Yes.” “Was she lifting stuff?”) was a lot of fun.

The Wally cameo seemed a bit off, though.

[...] the Band reference that I, well, referenced in my piece on Peter Tomasi’s Nightwing run. Dan Phillips wrote in to tell me I had to mention this, and I meant to, but I couldn’t find [...]