Comments on: A Year of Cool Comic Book Moments - Day 56

By: wwk5d

wwk5d — Tue, 18 Aug 2009 09:45:47 +0000

This was ok. The Emma-Shaw dynamic seemed a bit off, but it was ok.

By: Felicity

Felicity — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 05:44:25 +0000

The artist did a good job of drawing Namor sexy.

By: Thenodrin

Thenodrin — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 05:15:12 +0000

Is it bad that my thought wasn't, "She killed Shaw" but, "That is the wrong kind of blade to cut his head off without a huge swinging chop, which wouldn't work because of his power to absorb kinetic energy. Something must be up." Theno

By: Ted

Ted — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 04:39:11 +0000

Dan, I guess its fair enough if you think the sex and violence is gratuitous (I would agree with you more on the sex than the violence) but you did say "this is some of the stupidest stuff there is in superhero comics" rather than "this is somewhat more gratuitous is a medium that already has alot of gratuitous sex and violence." I well may have misunderstood you but I think that's more your fault than mine.

By: entzauberung

entzauberung — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 22:04:44 +0000

"Likewise, if you really do compare the Bible to Uncanny X-Men Annual #2, I think one can tell where violence is used with value and where it is used valuelessly "

I'm personally backing the annual here.

By: fanboy d

fanboy d — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 12:09:29 +0000

hardcore.

surprised the reception fraction gets on this book (i don't pick it up so i wouldn't know...)

his iron man is GREAT!

By: Dan Felty

Dan Felty — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 08:04:21 +0000

"I know, it’s terrible. Like that other book full of sex and violence with a dancer and a head on a platter. Things with sex and violence really have no value."

Hi Ted--that's not really what I'm getting at. I don't want to seem petty here, but I want to be clear. Sex and violence can have powerful and fundamental values in art. Prurient is defined, "marked by or arousing an immoderate or unwholesome interest or desire." I used that phrase to mean sex and violence that is included without furthering themes, characterization, plot, etc.

I think we're getting at exactly the same thing, that violence does have a place in art, but I think that this is done sloppily and haphazardly, falling below the threshold of value to include it. Matt Fraction obviously disagrees with me.

You happened to pick a great example for me: the story of John the Baptist is portrayed excellently in comics by P. Craig Russell in his adaptation of Oscar Wilde's Salome (http://www.comicbookdb.com/issue.php?ID=59668). Russell uses a comparable amount of sex and violence to make complex statements on love, desire, duty, revenge, and religion (it's beautiful, to boot!). He uses violence as a tool to enhance the story, it's not the story itself.

Likewise, if you really do compare the Bible to Uncanny X-Men Annual #2, I think one can tell where violence is used with value and where it is used valuelessly (though I admit, I haven't read the whole issue ).

By: Ted

Ted — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 07:08:11 +0000

"chock full of prurient sex and violence"

I know, it's terrible. Like that other book full of sex and violence with a dancer and a head on a platter. Things with sex and violence really have no value.

By: universaladdress

universaladdress — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 06:57:34 +0000

Kind of funny - in Dark Reign, Namor comes on to Emma Frost like he's never met her before, and Frost replies that they've met and that he smells. It was a good way for Bendis to hedge his bets without searching the archives for backstory.

By: Brian Cronin

Brian Cronin — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 02:42:10 +0000

What banal moments were in this Annual?

This Annual was awesome all throughout!

By: Greg Burgas

Greg Burgas — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 02:13:09 +0000

That's the problem, T. - it doesn't. For every six pages like this that are pretty nifty, there are 15-20 pages that aren't. The cool moments are still there, but that's all they are - moments. The rest of the comic doesn't measure up, and the coolness of each individual moment isn't enough to overcome the banality of the rest of it.

By: T.

T. — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 01:11:03 +0000

I keep hearing mixed reviews on Fraction's X-stuff from people like Burgas, but if it regularly has moments like that I'm sold! That was really cool.

By: FunkyGreenJerusalem

FunkyGreenJerusalem — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 23:58:35 +0000

I mean, no offense to the people that are enjoying the comic, but face facts that this is here to titillate and then pull back to acceptable standards at the last second.

No, you're meant too go holy shit, she killed Shaw', and then you find out she's being super manipulative. It's not pulling back to anything - that panel with a head on a plate is still there. If this were getting rated/classified, it would still be treated exactly the same as if there wasn't the twist that Namor only thought he saw it happen.

By: FunkyGreenJerusalem

FunkyGreenJerusalem — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 23:55:34 +0000

Really cool moment Brian - I haven't checked out any of Fraction's X-men, after being dissapointed with Brubaker's space arc, and Carey's first arc on;y being so-so, but even coming in cold, that was a gripping little sequence - and I was really shocked that she had cut Shaw's head off, never even considered the alternative. Well played by Fraction, and i may just have to check out his run when it's collected now. I also liked Namor trying to hit on Emma - he either just can't say no to a blond, or really think's he's gods gift. Hilarious.

This is horrible. This is chock full of prurient sex and violence, and then they try to have it both ways by saying, ‘no, no, that was Earth-2 Amalgam universe Timeline-14 violence! All that violence you though you saw you didn’t really see! Everybody’s a hero, yay!’ This is some of the stupidest stuff there is in superhero comics.

SEX AND VIOLENCE IN A SUPERHERO COMIC??? OMG! WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN! THEY ARE SEDUCING OUR INNOCENT! This is X-men man, it's always been sex and violence... the fact there are the characters of Emma Frost and Sebastian Shaw are a pretty good testament to that.

By: Dan Felty

Dan Felty — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 23:16:46 +0000

I'm not! Thanks for playing Miss-the-Point!

By: Rhod

Rhod — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 18:49:29 +0000

Dan, unlike Derek, I think you're an idiot. "The stupidest stuff in comics"? What you basically seem to be saying is "Twists are stupid, I like stories that don't try and confuse me"

By: Derek J. Goodman

Derek J. Goodman — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 18:08:56 +0000

Dan, I respect your opinion, but I personally like this a lot. Different strokes.

For me the real moment is when it's revealed that she didn't actually cut off his head, but the last page is great too. I had reservations when the White Queen was taken in as part of Osborne's secret group, but her characterization here makes up for it.

By: Dan Felty

Dan Felty — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 17:51:04 +0000

I mean, no offense to the people that are enjoying the comic, but face facts that this is here to titillate and then pull back to acceptable standards at the last second.

By: Dave

Dave — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 17:49:49 +0000

I like how Shaw's "Head" is a pumpkin. That's just hilarious.

By: Dan Felty

Dan Felty — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 17:48:45 +0000

This is horrible. This is chock full of prurient sex and violence, and then they try to have it both ways by saying, 'no, no, that was Earth-2 Amalgam universe Timeline-14 violence! All that violence you though you saw you didn't really see! Everybody's a hero, yay!' This is some of the stupidest stuff there is in superhero comics.