Just my $.0143 (adjusted for inflation)

Anyone who makes “Shame! Shame!” noises about writers snarking other writers or the work of other writers is either ignoring centuries of tradition or simply ignorant of it.

Or they think it was wrong back then too.

Personally I don’t have a problem with this kind of thing, but the “they did it in the past therefore it’s okay” argument is very weak.

Actually, I didn’t have a problem with that. First, as someone else pointed out, that was Bill Jemas, not Joe. Second, it depicted me as an alcoholic, which I found hilarious because I hardly ever drink, and never to excess. Third, the art depicted me as having more hair and less waist than I did in real life. Actually, it looked more like Steve Saffel than it did me. I guess the complete lack of resemblance which you point out is why I just kind of shrugged and said, “Okay. Whatever.” For satire to have bite, there has to be some grain of truth in it. To depict a fat bald non-drinker as a thin drinker with hair dilutes it of any acidity it might have. At least to me.

PAD

Anyone who makes “Shame! Shame!” noises about writers snarking other writers or the work of other writers is either ignoring centuries of tradition or simply ignorant of it. Part of the fun of writing is occasionally wielding words and thoughts as javelins, to puncture both people and pretensions.

I cannot recommend highly enough a book by James Charlton entitled “Fighting Words: Writers Lambast Other Writers, from Aristotle to Anne Rice.” If nothing else, you’ll see that by comparison, the slings and arrows I may have fired at John or Erik in my career are nothing compared to the glorious vitriol hurled by writers far greater than I could ever be.

PAD

SERIOUS BUSINESS.

Which I think is a rather direct comment on how Moore wrote about magic in Promethea as compared to the way Morrison writes about it.

Well, Moores story was much more ground breaking, beautiful and epic, Morrisons had a girl who spoke backwards.

Well, see, when I first read the subject line of this CSBG entry, I thought that would be the example that Brian would use. Instead, he used the PAD jab at Byrne’s retconning the Skulls into creating the Hulk.

Considering the aforementioned insult at Claremont, well, Byrne certainly is not blameless, and is actually one of the creators who helped start this whole trend going in the first place. Really, if Byrne was so upset over Claremont’s characterization of Doctor doom, he should have simply ignored it. Instead, he threw in a blatant swipe at Claremont in the pages of FF and, a quarter century later, we’re still talking about those stories. Would anyone still even remember the scene between Doom and Arcade in X-Men it if Byrne hadn’t made such a big stink about it?

In any case, so Byrne thinks it’s wildly out of character for Dr. Doom to have just stood there and let Arcade light a match on his armor? Well, he’s entitled to his opinion. But it’s a much bigger, blatant insult to both other creators and to readers to, say, reveal the Scarlet Witch’s children weren’t real, or say that the Skulls created the Hulk, or do half the stuff that went on in Spider-Man Chapter One.

Just my opinion, mind you

Yeah, saying “half a dozen” times was an exaggeration; I was thinking more of Marvel books he’s left/been fired from rather than leaving the company for good. I think it’s fair to say that most people don’t think of Byrne today as someone who quietly follows the corporate line, though, which still leaves the Cogburn parody as limited in scope to a particular time. (Which, in fairness, is probably all it was meant to be.)

I guess it’s possible All-Beard and No-Beard were supposed to be Moore and Morrison, but there doesn’t seem to be that much resemblance to the actual persons besides baldness/beardedness and some obscure reference to magical rituals. Also, they’re both depicted as equally crazy, and both end up dying horribly, so it’s hard to see a big insult there.

Zatanna #1, on the other hand, is quite clearly meant to be a comment on Promethea. But since Morrison isn’t really insulting Moore in it, rather than gently criticizing the “magic-by-numbers” approach Moore took in Promethea, I think it’s fair enough. I have no problems with comic writers commenting on other comic writers’ work in their own comics, as long as it doesn’t regress to the level of petty personal insults and doesn’t jar the actual story. Even if Morrison was poking fun at Promethea in Zatanna #1, he still got a pretty good story out of it.

*I have to go write a story starring Dim Callahack and Dog Fatkinson now.

I do agree that, if I were an editor, and I caught something that (intentionally or not) might be interpreted as a personal attack, I’d eliminate it. Even if it was meant well, people can be very sensitive sometimes. (AND they have lawyers.)

Well some say that if it’s not helping or telling the story, then it has no business being in the book at all – be writing or artwork.
(Christopher Priest, formerly editor Jim Owsly, has a letter on his website he used to give to talent laying out that it’s all about the story and nothing else.).

I do agree that, if I were an editor, and I caught something that (intentionally or not) might be interpreted as a personal attack, I’d eliminate it. Even if it was meant well, people can be very sensitive sometimes. (AND they have lawyers.)

One way to tell if something is a personal attack: if you read the story from the average reader’s POV and cannot tell it refers to some real person, it can be allowed. But stuff like “Larsenry?” No way that’s not an attack… or a really bad typo (in either case, out it goes.)

Considering Byrne’s own history of ignoring stories that don’t jibe with his vision, it’s hard to feel much sympathy for him in this instance. I don’t really think it’s a case of airing dirty laundry, but several of the other things mentioned are in poor taste.

Surprised no one has mentioned the Grand Poohbah of Comic Book Creator Parodies/Personal Shots– Dave Sim.