Comic Book Resources

Maybe I should be RE-reading YOUNG LIARS, then. Because I read it and didn't like it. (To each their own, of course, but I am a card-carrying Fall fan, so I was actually surprised to not like the book.)

Next time, bring a fake cell phone with you and see if she flees with it when you hand it over. Then you have the right to chase her down and tackle her for your toy phone filled with delicious candy.

You know. If you're a tackler.

Give her a comic from the quarter bin at your shop, or two to make it 50 cents. Maybe one from DC's "Silver Age" event they published a few years ago, which I imagine you'd find in said bin.

Chad - I second your feelings about Young Liars. I liked the first trade so much that I ended up buying up all the back issues that picked up where it left off, and adding it to my pull list. Every time I think there is no way Lapham can pull off another "everything you know is wrong" moment and maintain any narrative cohesion or momentum, he proves me wrong. I can imagine some future point (maybe about 6 issues down the road) where I may start to get irked if we still aren't getting any answers, but right now it is still a fun and compelling ride.

I love that everything you need to know is in the title -- i.e., you should read it like a story being told by a pathological liar, constantly reassessing the veracity of what is being presented. And watch out for those Spiders From Mars.

Give crazy cheap bus lady hustler foreign currency that to the naked eye looks like two quarters, or perhaps bring 49 pennies in your pocket and say here lady. but I am sorry that is all I have.

I think the Daredevil Noir joke may be officially played-out at this point.

"Random Thought! When Dan DiDio says that they’re bringing back Barry Allen as Flash, because you can’t tell Wally West’s origin without Barry, isn’t that a load of crap?"

Seriously, that's the latest justification? Geez... it's not like Barry's Superboy and Wally's the LSH.

Which Silver Age comics have you read that were NOT grounded in a tongue in cheek, ironic self-awareness?

As a description of Silver Age superhero books, you couldn't possibly be more off the mark in your description. "Silver Age comics were forged from weapons grade plutonium and hand-bound by a race of magical talking elephants" is a much more accurate description than calling them "sincere."

For your bus lady, buy one of those plastic cellphones filled with candy and just give it to her. Then she'll have her own phone.

As for Young Liars, yes I agree with you. I think Scalped is my favorite monthly. If you like YL, I highly recommend AIR.

"Random Thought! With “Civil War,” “Secret Invasion,” and, now, “Dark Reign,” how has Tony Stark not sunk deep into an alcohol binge to end all alcohol binges? Is it odd that I find his not falling off the wagon yet to be the least realistic thing about the Marvel universe right now?"

Actually, I think that is a testament to his strength of will and makes him that much more of a hero and even a role model. During Civil War, when Millar had Stark actually pour himself a drink, only to have it swatted away by Sue Storm, I thought that he made Stark succumb too easily. On the contrary, what I did like was when Fraction had Stark make reference to the temptation of alcohol (early in his Invincible Iron Man run), and how having a drink is his biggest fear. With any addiction, the specter of temptation always looms large, but giving in to the temptation isn't always a given during times of stress and darkness.

Really, Barry's being brought back because the current creative folks behind the book like it that way. Every time they do this, the logic is flimsy, insulting, and honks off the internet, while the majority of fans resolutely do not care. And five years from now, you/me/everyone won't either.

Realistically, they could get the same result and save a lot of time if they were just said "Why is Barry coiming back? Why?!? Because F*** you, that's why."

Loved this, more please.

Random Thought! I love Jason Aaron as much as anyone, but isn't another Wolverine ongoing series (with a half dozen variant covers) the last thing the comic industry needs?

DiDio brought back Barry because it's the Flash he grew up with. I will prove it here soon! That's why fanboys like DiDio and Quesada ("I grew up with single Peter Parker, so that's what he's going to be!") shouldn't be running these businesses.

Don't worry Greg. One day, it'll be the kids who grew up with Wally and married superheroes, and things'll be 1996 all over again!

Wait.

Has Paradigm been collected? 'Cause I'd buy the trades, even if it is unfinished. Sounds very cool.

I also need to start buying the Young Liars trades, but, like you and everyone else, I've got too many comics and trades lying around anyway. I wish I could get rid of my collection in one fell swoop. Or maybe a couple, easy to manage fell swoops. I guess there's always eBay. And/or, I wish I could purchase PDFs of comics/trades, read them, and discard them. That would be a lovely service.

Does the lady at the bus stop only ask you for fifty cents, or is she hitting everybody up? Also: how much is bus fare? Maybe she's just trying to catch the next ride. I can't imagine she's trying to save up enough coin, fifty cents at a time, to score drugs. That would take way too long and entirely too much patience. Unless it's a really busy, really generous neighborhood.

DiDio brought back Barry because it’s the Flash he grew up with.

I think that is partly right. It certainly seems like Didio loved "Battle of the Super-Friends" and was not happy with the changed the prior regime at DC made to that status quo. For example, DC editorial is plowing through the JLI like a serial killer.

However, that is only part of it. The other part is the DC is owned by a giant corporation that would like to use these properties in other media. I can believe that writing a Flash movie featuring Wally West is harder to write than one featuring Barry Allen.

However, it is sad that the only two options that appeared to be on the table were "dial the status quo for the DCU back to 1979" and "ignore the JLA as exploitable film properties". Neither the Richard Donner Superman, nor the Tim Burton Batman, films were exactly slavish recreations of their source material. Both those films left the characters better than they came to them.

I can’t imagine she’s trying to save up enough coin, fifty cents at a time, to score drugs. That would take way too long and entirely too much patience. Unless it’s a really busy, really generous neighborhood.

I heard there was a sale on crack rocks. Buy one get one. And the discounts you get after Easter...!

" Random Thought! When Dan DiDio says that they’re bringing back Barry Allen as Flash, because you can’t tell Wally West’s origin without Barry, isn’t that a load of crap? How hard is it to understand the added line of “Wally was, originally, sidekick to his uncle Barry, the previous Flash until he sacrificed himself to save the universe and Wally assumed the Flash identity”? Actually, doesn’t that make Wally’s origin a lot more interesting? "

It makes Wally's origin more interesting, true, but it keeps the Flash as a title about a legacy, as opposed to a title about its protagonist. Thus, the Flash isn't about the Fastest Man Alive so much as the Fastest Man Alive's Successor Somberly Keeping His Mentor's Memory Alive.

And this is why the only good Flash was the version on the Justice League cartoon, who was free to be his own man by not being stuck in anyone else's shadow.

"Both those films left the characters better than they came to them."

Sorry, I couldn't hear you over the sound of Batman blowing up a factory full of goons.

It makes Wally’s origin more interesting, true, but it keeps the Flash as a title about a legacy, as opposed to a title about its protagonist. Thus, the Flash isn’t about the Fastest Man Alive so much as the Fastest Man Alive’s Successor Somberly Keeping His Mentor’s Memory Alive.

And this is why the only good Flash was the version on the Justice League cartoon, who was free to be his own man by not being stuck in anyone else’s shadow.

The Justice League cartoon was awful. Let's face it.

Waid's version of Wally West in his initial run was spectacular. Yes, the memory of Barry weighed heavily in certain arcs, but it was all one big storyline of Wally becoming his own man, which he did. As far as I'm concerned, he's the Flash. Barry's some shyster trying to horn in on the act he's not a part of anymore.

"the Flash isn’t about the Fastest Man Alive so much as the Fastest Man Alive’s Successor Somberly Keeping His Mentor’s Memory Alive."

Or you could go with "The Fastest Man Alive Today."

"It makes Wally’s origin more interesting, true, but it keeps the Flash as a title about a legacy, as opposed to a title about its protagonist. Thus, the Flash isn’t about the Fastest Man Alive so much as the Fastest Man Alive’s Successor Somberly Keeping His Mentor’s Memory Alive."

In other words: Flash should be Jay and no one else?

'Or you could go with “The Fastest Man Alive Today.”'

Or, to avoid redundancy, The Fastest Man Alive

I'll agree that Young Liars is a mess.

Now i need to check Young Liars

It makes Wally’s origin more interesting, true, but it keeps the Flash as a title about a legacy, as opposed to a title about its protagonist. Thus, the Flash isn’t about the Fastest Man Alive so much as the Fastest Man Alive’s Successor Somberly Keeping His Mentor’s Memory Alive.

I could not disagree more.

The Silver Age Flash comics were cool in spite of Barry Allen by and large. He is a deadly dull character. By making Wally the Flash, it turned a weakness into a strength. Barry made virtue plodding, which made his standard impossible to match. It gave the character conflict.

Random Thought! When Dan DiDio says that they’re bringing back Barry Allen as Flash, because you can’t tell Wally West’s origin without Barry, isn’t that a load of crap? How hard is it to understand the added line of “Wally was, originally, sidekick to his uncle Barry, the previous Flash until he sacrificed himself to save the universe and Wally assumed the Flash identity”? Actually, doesn’t that make Wally’s origin a lot more interesting?

No, it doesn't make Wally's origin more interesting. It makes his origin redundant.

I can't believe I'm sticking up for Didio, but yes, it does make sense. It's probably one of the only decisions he's made that I actually agree with. One of the few that makes sense. I applaud him for it. It really boggles my mind that he could be behind such a good decision but I guess even a clock is right twice a day.

Wally West lost everything that made him unique. He inherited Barry's costume. He has the exact same origin, down to the exact location. He was a prick. Unlike Barry. Now he's a nice guy like Barry. He was a womanizer, unlike Barry. Now he's a one-woman man, like Barry. And he's married to that woman, like Barry was. And she's a reporter, like Barry's wife was. And they have twins. Like Barry. He had his own villains for a short time. Now he has Barry's. He had no secret identity, unlike Barry. Now he does have one. Like Barry. Wally was so rich that he didn't have to work. Now he is working/middle class like Barry was. He has a job, just like Barry did. As support staff for the police, just like Barry. He's reached the point where just about everything about him is redundant of Barry Allen except his hair and eye color. And Barry was even present at his origin to boot.

Seriously, with all these similarities, why are people making this out to be such a jarring change? They've become interchangeable. So why not just bring the real Barry Allen back instead of the watered down Barry Allen?

The Silver Age Flash comics were cool in spite of Barry Allen by and large. He is a deadly dull character.

Can you name me a Silver Age DC character that wasn't deadly dull? I could open up a Silver Age JLA comic and read all the characters' dialogue that doesn't mention their specific superpowers out loud and you wouldn't know which character was talking, that's how interchangeable all the DC heroes were in personality. If you were to only judge DC characters by their Silver Age personality they're ALL dull people. And that's not an insult to DC. They were concept and plot-driven book. It wasn't until Marvel started gaining steam with their character-driven books that DC started giving their characters interesting and distinctive personalities and started doing character driven books.

If Barry is so bad and Wally is so good, why do the two favorite runs of the Wally Flash, Waid and Johns, happen to be the ones that basically turned him into Barry Allen-lite. Apparently the more Barry Allen-like changes they gave Wally, from a reporter wife to twins to the same Rogues, all worked to make him more popular.

I've yet to see the lady ask anyone else for anything, but I'm also usually trying my best to ignore everything she does, so... Also, bus fare is $2.45.

In looking at films and TV, I find the idea of Wally as the Flash far more interesting than Barry because of the legacy element. Here's a guy who's been a superhero since childhood and is confident in that role. It seems every superhero film or TV show (with the odd exception) is about newcomers to the role and a change from that would be welcome. Throw in some flashbacks to Barry and it works--for me.

Ian A--Paradigm had one trade released, collecting the first four issues, I want to say. I don't know what hunting down all twelve issues on eBay or elsewhere would run you, but the singles also include loooooong letter columns with Cashel and Haun listing what they're reading/watching in pretty much every medium each month. A really solid product all around.

Really, Barry’s being brought back because the current creative folks behind the book like it that way. Every time they do this, the logic is flimsy, insulting, and honks off the internet, while the majority of fans resolutely do not care. And five years from now, you/me/everyone won’t either.

I agree with this. How many people were screaming bloody murder and saying what a pointless regression it was for Hal Jordan to become Green Lantern again. HEAT members were ridiculed online as a vocal minority of crazies living in the past who were ruining the progressive movement of comics for everyone. Morrison was on Newsarama giving interviews on the net calling people who wanted Hal over Kyle creepy fans living in the past. Now not only does no one care, most people all act like they were for it all along. And I'll admit, I was in the "comics should be progressive and move forward" camp and hated the return to Hal too. Now that it's happened, I have to admit it was a good call. In 5 years, the same will happen with Barry.

Random Thought! You would think that a comic called Ultimatum feature, at the centre of the story, I don’t know… an ultimatum of some kind. You would be wrong.

It's written by Jeph Loeb. So no I wouldn't expect that to happen because that would be logical. And a Loeb story is never that.

If Barry is so bad and Wally is so good, why do the two favorite runs of the Wally Flash, Waid and Johns, happen to be the ones that basically turned him into Barry Allen-lite. Apparently the more Barry Allen-like changes they gave Wally, from a reporter wife to twins to the same Rogues, all worked to make him more popular.

Waid made him more like "Wally West:Grown-Up" than "Wally West: Barry Jr." But whatever. And I haven't read past Johns' first two issues and probably never will now that my opinion of his work has soured, so who knows on that end?

Really, if it were up to me, I'd just have a new guy as the Flash with no connection to the Allens or the Speed Force. A new science hero for a new science future. But the fanmen wouldn't buy it.

Waid made him more like “Wally West:Grown-Up” than “Wally West: Barry Jr.” But whatever.

Come on now. If he just got married and had a kid then I'd say that was more like "Wally West: Grown Up." But married to a woman with THE EXACT SAME JOB as Barry's wife? And managing to have SPEEDSTER TWINS to boot? And raising these twins off-world away from present day Earth? (In Barry's case the future, in Wally's case an alternate Earth). A job with the police? And so on and so on? That's Barry Allen Lite, plain and simple.

" In other words: Flash should be Jay and no one else? "

No, I'd just prefer to read about a character, not a legacy. Especially when it's not just a matter of one man trying to live up to his mentor, but having the entire Speed Force family ( Jay Garrick, Johnny Quick, Jesse Quick, Max Mercury, Bart Allen, any number of other future speedsters, and various other hangers-on ) tag along. Legacy characters aren't inherently doomed, but they need to either be very distinct from their predecessors ( Captain Bucky being a good example ) or have a good justification for their legacy ( the Green Lantern Corps ). I haven't really seen that with the Flash comics.

Hence my affection for the animated Flash, who's just a dude who goes really fast, an elegant simplicity that the comic Flash is sorely lacking.

Actually, my bad, Waid didn't give him the same job or send him to raise the twins in the future. But he did get the ball rolling as far as turning Wally into a watered-down Barry.

Can you name me a Silver Age DC character that wasn’t deadly dull?

I think that there is a tendency to over-state the difference between Silver Age DC and Marvel. They were both borrowing heavily from the Saturday matinee character types. Stan Lee just wrote with more gusto than Gardner Fox and John Broome.

Really, if it were up to me, I’d just have a new guy as the Flash with no connection to the Allens or the Speed Force. A new science hero for a new science future. But the fanmen wouldn’t buy it.

That would be my first choice as well.

DC has done three generations of these characters. Looking back, it is clear that some stuff works, other stuff doesn't and there are avenues that might be interesting to go down which are hard to follow using the existing characters.

It would be fun to see a group of talented, like-minded creators get together and do a full Julius Schwartz on the entire DC line. Re-boot everything from day one on ... say ... Earth Zero. Do a brand-new version of Superman with all the lessons of the Golden Age, the Weisinger years, the Donner movies, the Byrne re-boot, "Lois & Clark", "Smallville" and "Superman Returns". Ditto Wonder Woman, the Flash, Green Lantern, the Atom, et al. The only history that isn't strictly baggage anymore is Batman's.

Starting the Flash over from "My name is _____ and I'm the fastest man alive" would give a great writer a chance to devise the first science hero for the digital age.

Sadly, it'll never happen.

Silver Age Marvel and Silver Age DC WERE radically different. And this is not me trying to insult DC here. The driving point of DC books beyond the costumes and the powers were the dense plots and the twists in them along with the sci-fi concepts. But the personalities were as dull as dishwater. Personalitywise Batman and Superman and Flash were interchangeable and dull as dishwater. Barry Allen was late all the time, Bruce Wayne pretended to be a fop and Clark Kent pretended to be clumsy. That was the extent of the difference between their civilian identities. It was about the plot twists and the sci-fi applications of the powers. The driving point of Marvel books beyond the powers and costumes were the vibrant and unique personalities, the real world problems and the character-driven storylines. Sure by the END of the Silver Age Marvel and DC weren't as radical but at the start they were.

Really, if it were up to me, I’d just have a new guy as the Flash with no connection to the Allens or the Speed Force. A new science hero for a new science future.

Starting the Flash over from “My name is _____ and I’m the fastest man alive” would give a great writer a chance to devise the first science hero for the digital age.

Not trying to be derisive, this is a serious question: Aside from being cool-sounding Morrisonesque or Millaresque taglines or interview soundbytes, what exactly do these things mean? What is a new science future entail? Is he going to have a bunch of tech-based powers? What does being the first sceince hero for the digital age mean, is he going to do things like travel through computers and modems similar to what the Atom does? I'm not poking fun, I just don't really get what you guys are getting at here with these phrases. They sound cool but they don't really paint a clear picture for me. And if they are going to be radically different in powers and setting, why not be totally creative and just call it a new character altogether. Feeling the need to create such a drastically new character yet still name it after a 60 year old character is still a form of being married to the past you know.

Starting the Flash over from “My name is _____ and I’m the fastest man alive” would give a great writer a chance to devise the first science hero for the digital age.

Sadly, it’ll never happen.

I disagree. I would not say it could never happen. Similar things have happened in the past, and recently to boot, so why couldn't they happen again? Kyle Rayner was a hip new Green Lantern for a new age, with no ties to the past Lanterns and hipper, trendier ring constructs thanks to his job as an artist. We had several Dr. Fates, including that 90s cheese one from Bloodlines, who had little relation to the old one. We had a brand new character as Batgirl. We have a new current Manhunter, a Blue Beetle and a new Firestorm with very little ties to their predecessors and made to be more in tune with the era in which they were created. I think you progressive comic types bemoaning the lack of risktaking and change are being selective and seeing only what you want to see and ignoring examples that don't fit into your narrative. Sure none of these series lasted, but they did no worse than recent new series that had longtime classic characters headlining them.

Oh, here's another one, Crispus Allen Spectre. Relatively new character, no ties to the old Spectre, unique origin. And Montoya Question.

"The Justice League cartoon was awful. Let’s face it."

Why should we face the fact it was awful? I thought it was great -- full of characters and great characterization (after the first year or so), and some nice looking animation. And I've been reading the Flash for about five years now, since the show and their take on Wally West got me interested in the character. I thought they did a great job at making him a very unique and likable guy who didn't need Barry Allen's specter looming over him to be viable -- they barely even got into his origins on the show outside of a brief flashback!

I probably prefer the animated take on Wally to the comic version because of how much fun he was there.

Have a good day.
John Cage

@T: "what exactly do these things mean?"

While I don't necessarily disagree with everything you said, the question got me thinking. I guess one thing I would build on is the idea of the Flash being a forensic scientist. I think the idea of superheroes + CSI is an interesting one. I don't mean Superhero CSI, I mean having a forensic scientist who is a superhero in his spare time. I think you could contrast the more mundane crimes Flash solves in his job with the extraordinary crimes he solves as a superhero. I would play down the superhero aspects to be honest, after all he's just a guy who can run fast, although I'm of the opinion that the entire DC should have a power down grade.

I could see that the words CSI could send shivers down people's spines, and while I wouldn't say that CSI necessarily has much artistic value (to be honest I've never really watched the show) you certainly can't argue that CSI isn't popular, for what that's worth. But when I say CSI I don't really mean CSI, the show that I really had in mind was the British show Silent Witness, I don't know if it has been shown in the US but I think it managed to balance the forensic elements with interestingly evil villains.

Of course you could say why bother having a superhero if he isn't going to be super. It's a fair question. I guess, from my point of view I find the giant super battles between hundreds of superheroes and villains to be horribly bland. I find superheroics to be much more interesting when it is mostly in the background, and it all the more interesting when used sparingly. The two ideas, superhero and CSI, don't necessarily mesh that well, but I think they can be combined in a way better than just Flash chasing down the bad guy every comic, although I haven't come up with too many ideas just yet.

The other response would be to say that Flash would be overlapping on Batman's territory, but if network television can have 100 detective shows, I think we can have two detective comics. Plus I think it would be interesting contrasting Batman's working class environment with Flash's more middle class one. I would imagine (although I'm no expert) that the original Flash comics were somewhat influenced by radio crime serials. It would seem to me that while radio crime serials have evolved into modern TV crime shows, comics haven't done the same, which is in my opinion a mistake.

Going back to the original question, the other thing I want to say is that Flash seems a Newtonian science hero and he should become a relativistic hero. I realise that these are probably just more empty buzzwords, but I think there's something there, even if I can't put it in words. What I don't mean is that Flash should have all the powers he logically would have in this world, like superstrength. Flash should just run fast, even if that makes no sense. I just think that there is a way that Flash can engage with science as it exists now, not from 1940. The idea probably needs some more work, but I think there might be something there.

Now can you stop asking questions like that, I have essays to write.

I'm not going to get into the Flash argument except to say that I disagree with the return but don't really care.

Young Liars is my favourite monthly too, though Northlanders and Incredible Herc come close. Lapham is the man, and I really need to get some more Stay Bullets trades.

There's no ultimatum in Ultimatum? Good thing I skipped it. I could've been let down.

Wally is not a watered-down Barry.

Wally is Barry with added depth of character.

And he was rich for about a dozen issues...

On the 50c lady, there is s guy I used to see walking up and down the street with a bike helmet, asking for "42p for petrol"... First time out, I gave him a pound. Then I started seeing him again and again... each time asking for "42p for petrol"... Even when the price went up...

I figured he was just really exact with his petrol rationing and kept getting stuck in traffic...

"Wally is Barry with added depth of character."

Agreed. Everything incidental to the core character (wife, job - although I'm pretty sure Wally's back to just being a hero - financial status, etc.) may be similar to Barry (and, has been joked about several times, to Jay), but Wally himself is a much different character than Barry once you peel back the surface layers. That's largely down to Waid's tenure, starting with Year One (and likely the narration, complete with the catchphrase). The pre-Waid era was about differentiating Wally, but unlike when Marz did it with Kyle, Wally wasn't a blank slate and didn't really need that differentiation to begin with - he was ALREADY a different character, no matter what accouterments you placed around him.

It's not as though you could go into a Waid / Johns script, replace all references to Wally with Barry, and wind up with a product that's indistinguishable from a Barry story. All you'd get would be a story that had people asking "why is Barry so strange?"

[And I still think bringing Hal back was a mistake, it's just that Johns came up with a concept (the Sinestro Corps) that a lot of people got excited about... but one that could've been executed just as easily with Kyle as lead as Hal. GL's current success is largely based on that storyline, and it's one that's pretty much independent of the lead character.]

Flash is pretty much just a costume for me. The only thing that upsets me about the return of Barry Allen is that the "lightning belt" on the Flash costume won't be the unconnected, diagonal Wally West belt.

RIP Wally West unconnected, diagonal lightning belt. RIP.

Aside from being cool-sounding Morrisonesque or Millaresque taglines or interview soundbytes, what exactly do these things mean?

I think "science hero" was a Moore term, actually. In the Silver Age, all the DC heroes had sci-fi origins and sci-fi adventures; they were stories about ideas. I'd like to get back to that way of thinking-- a new Flash, a scientist, maybe a hadron collider or a tachyon drive or a quantum something-something, a bolt of lightning, an accident-- and you've got a new Flash for a weirder future.

Wow, can we talk about the Flash or what? (I'm as guilty as the next fanguy, but...damn)

Need to watch the youtube clip when I'm not at work. Edge and Cena are great on the mic and don't need much to rekindle a historically hot feud. WWE lost me at WM - never been a fan of Edge with Vickie, or The Big Show, and I refuse to support McMahon-driven storylines any more.

Young Liars is a phenomenal work.

What Richard said about Stark. The best part of Fraction's work on the character (and on Henry Hellrung from the Order) is his realistic addressing of his addiction.

" What Richard said about Stark. The best part of Fraction’s work on the character (and on Henry Hellrung from the Order) is his realistic addressing of his addiction. "

Furthermore, if alcohol is used to cloud the mind to avoid thinking troubling thoughts, then the neurological degeneration that's been progressing since Tony performed brain surgery on himself covers that problem in a way that Jack Daniels never could. At the very least, a Flowers for Algernon scenario gives Tony much bigger things to worry about than staying on or off the wagon.

I disagree. I would not say it could never happen. Similar things have happened in the past, and recently to boot, so why couldn’t they happen again? Kyle Rayner was a hip new Green Lantern for a new age, with no ties to the past Lanterns and hipper, trendier ring constructs thanks to his job as an artist.

Sorry, but that is not true. Kyle was given his power ring by a Guardian of Galaxy, which connected him directly back to Hal's back-story and antagonists. Kyle was new only to the extent that he had his supporting cast. The basic concept was the as it had been since Julie Schwartz was editing the title. Couple that with the fact Ron Marz was a cosmic writer at Marvel and you have limited appeal for people who weren't already Green Lantern fans. The title was remarkably successful all things considered.

Silver Age Marvel and Silver Age DC WERE radically different. ... Personalitywise Batman and Superman and Flash were interchangeable and dull as dishwater. Barry Allen was late all the time, Bruce Wayne pretended to be a fop and Clark Kent pretended to be clumsy.

I love both the Silver Age Marvels and DCs, but calling them "radically different" is an over-statement. Reed Richards, Tony Stark, Don Blake and ... even... Bruce Banner were all very much alike as written by Stan Lee. Jack Kirby and co. drew them very differently, but that is not the same as giving them different personalities in the script. Both DC and Marvel were working from the same four basic templates: the scientist, the soldier, the teenager and the girl. The big innovation of Stan Lee was mixing and matching the roles, which created an illusion of depth.

Conversely, saying that Marvel was about character and DC was about ideas under-rates Stan Lee as an idea generator. Lee, Kirby and Ditko created dozens of totally fresh sci-fi ideas. There were differences, but the character-idea dichotomy just doesn't hold up for me.

I’d like to get back to that way of thinking– a new Flash, a scientist, maybe a hadron collider or a tachyon drive or a quantum something-something, a bolt of lightning, an accident– and you’ve got a new Flash for a weirder future.

I was, in fact, quoting Alan Moore talking about his Steam Punk series, "Tom Strong". It probably turned up other places as well, but it is really apt when discussing The Flash.

What made the Broome-Kangier-Infantino stories cool was how they captured the Jet Age. The world was in the process of becoming smaller because it was moving faster. That had all the displacing effects that you would expect. People from strange cultures showed up and "normal" people got weird ideas. The Silver Age Rogue's Gallery was packed with those stories. Captain Boomerang was from Australia and Abra Kadabra was from the future. Golden Glider was a "good girl" turned into a "freak" by her boyfriend The Top. Barry Allen was the country club duffer trying to reconcile the hip and square worlds.

I'd happily read new stories set in the late-50s and early 60s addressed those themes in a more adult fashion. However, that isn't what DiDio is doing. He is trying to wind the clock back, but set everything in the "present day". Like the Green Lantern de-imagining, it might work short term. Adult comic fans love nostalgia after all. Sadly, it forecloses the prospect of doing anything new.

It is a shame, because the internet is making the world smaller yet again.

s1rude--Yeah, the Edge/Vickie/Big Show/Cena Mania thing was very quite awful. I was actually annoyed on Friday when I saw the segment featuring Edge and Cena, because it WAS what the build-up to Mania should have been. You don't often see Cena angry--but he gets angry here.

As for Stark and alcohol, I think I would be placated if we actually saw a struggle beyond that initial mention at the beginning of Fraction's run. As it is, his not drinking doesn't seem heroic, because the issue isn't being addressed.

And for anyone curious, I didn't see the white coat lady today--but a combination of one bus being early and another being a little late meant I caught the previous bus on the schedule coming home...

I love both the Silver Age Marvels and DCs, but calling them “radically different” is an over-statement.

I didn't mean that the Marvel characters were radically different from each other. I meant that in the early days of Marvel, their books were radically different from DC's. Marvel's characters weren't radically different from each other, but they were certainly unique. If you read the dialogue from a Fantastic Four comic with any reference to names and powers removed, you can still spot when the Thing is talking, when Johnny Storm is talking, when Reed is talking, etc. This was not the case with the pre-Marvel DC Silver Age books.

Sorry, but that is not true. Kyle was given his power ring by a Guardian of Galaxy, which connected him directly back to Hal’s back-story and antagonists. Kyle was new only to the extent that he had his supporting cast. The basic concept was the as it had been since Julie Schwartz was editing the title. Couple that with the fact Ron Marz was a cosmic writer at Marvel and you have limited appeal for people who weren’t already Green Lantern fans. The title was remarkably successful all things considered.

It was pretty different. He was picked totally at random, not because of any big search for a noble, courageous or fearless individual like the past Lanterns were. He was just the guy who was in the right place at the right time. He had no contact with the Guardians, just with one Guardian, who was pretty much an atypical Gaurdian to begin with, Ganthet. And he wasn't an "employee" of Ganthet either, he was pretty much a free agent. He barely knew Hal and didn't meet him until later in the run. His connections to Hal and the Guardians were as superficial as you could make them and still reasonably call the title Green Lantern. He was a sole Green Lantern in the universe rather than a part of a Corps, and his ring had no yellow weakness. His constructs were hip and avant-garde things like manga creations, fancy guns, tanks, and cool ass robots rather than bubbles, big hands and things like Hal used to use. I mean you have to have SOME connection to the Guardians if he's going to have a power ring and some connection to Hal if he's taking over the job as GL of earth, but they made the connection as slight as they could.

"...DC is owned by a giant corporation that would like to use these properties in other media. I can believe that writing a Flash movie featuring Wally West is harder to write than one featuring Barry Allen. "

With all due respect, I don't see why. The vast majority of people who know the Flash from both comics and the "Justice League" cartoons know him as Wally. A very good argument could even be made that the lead character in the 80s "Flash" TV series was a lot more like Wally West despite being named Barry Allen.

"Seriously, with all these similarities, why are people making this out to be such a jarring change? They’ve become interchangeable. So why not just bring the real Barry Allen back instead of the watered down Barry Allen?"

If the characters really are that similar, why go through the continuity hoop-jumping required to bring Barry back? It would be a heck of a lot simpler to just concentrate on telling new and better stories with Wally than to have to explain why Barry would want to give up his being-oneness-with-all-of-Creation (or whatever) for another throwdown with Captain Cold or Gorilla Grodd in front of the Third National Bank in Central City.

Adding insult to injury, Wally has now apparently been demoted from the JLA back to the Titans, a team originally formed of teen sidekicks, which is kind of like growing up, getting a cool job, and then giving it up to move back in with your parents, read comic books and complain about how things aren't as good as they used to be. Put like that, it really does sound a lot like that Aging Fanboy Syndrome. That, or the Byrne Board.

Put like that, it really does sound a lot like that Aging Fanboy Syndrome.

I am really getting sick of the whole "aging fanboy" and "fanmen" criticisms that keep getting tossed at people by elitist progressive superhero comic fans. How are you NOT an aging fanboy yourself? Unless you are a teenager or someone new to the hobby, you are an aging fanboy yourself. We all are. We are grown men who got into a kids hobby as kids and could not let it go as we entered into adulthood. So one group of us calling out the other for being stuck in the past, unable to grow up and move on, etc, is ridiculous. You know what growing up and moving on means? Being like superhero comic book fans of yesterday and just staying in the hobby during our adolscence, then moving on to traditionally adult pursuits and leaving the childhood hobbies intact for the next generation of adolescents to discover and enjoy the way we did. We are ALL aging fanboys and fanmen, whether we are Busiek reading Silver Age fetishists that like books recycling our childhood or Morrisonites that love throwing out grad school dissertation language and techspeak buzzwords when discussing something as ridiculously simple and fun as a superhero book.

What made the Broome-Kangier-Infantino stories cool was how they captured the Jet Age. The world was in the process of becoming smaller because it was moving faster. That had all the displacing effects that you would expect. People from strange cultures showed up and “normal” people got weird ideas. The Silver Age Rogue’s Gallery was packed with those stories. Captain Boomerang was from Australia and Abra Kadabra was from the future. Golden Glider was a “good girl” turned into a “freak” by her boyfriend The Top. Barry Allen was the country club duffer trying to reconcile the hip and square worlds.

I'm sorry, but the last thing I want is more Morrisonish comic books that read like a pretentious grad school dissertation. Kids who loves Broome/Kanigher/Infantino books for all the cutting-edge sci-fi commentary, they liked them because they were wacky, fun, brightly colored and had lots of asskicking and superpowers. The intellectually masturbatory commentary is what adult self-described intellectuals have to reframe the old work as to justify their need to still consume such stuff as grown men.

That should have read "Kids don't love Broome/Kanigher/Infantino books for all the cutting edge sci-fi commentary"

I won't consider myself a fanman until I turn 30, gain 50 pounds, and develop the ability to grow a full beard.

And I think Morrison comics read less like pretentious grad school dissertations and more like stories written by the world's smartest kindergartner. By which I mean they are insightfully imaginative.

@T: "reframe the old work as to justify their need"

And WE are the ones who use "pretentious grad school dissertation language"? And I am new to hobby so can I call you an aging fanboy?

[...] origin of Wally West without Barry Allen.” I have to agree with Comics Should Be Good that this isn’t a valid reason. It doesn’t take that much more time to explain Barry’s involvement in Wally [...]

And I am new to hobby so can I call you an aging fanboy?

I already called myself one.

As people far smarter than I have noted, the Internet doesn't do irony very well.

It briefly crossed my mind when I wrote that bit about aging fanboys, I might tick somebody off but I went for it anyway. I thought it was obvious that, yep, I am an aging fanboy, so much that when I was typing that, I had a big ironic grin on my face--which you would've seen if you had just bothered to hack into the streaming webcam I keep pointed at me from on top of my monitor at all times (just kidding). I'm not going to say exactly how aging I am, mind you, but from the things Greg Hatcher posts in his "Friday" column, it looks like he and I were shopping in the same sort of places at pretty much the same time.

My point was that aging fanboys have gotten a bad reputation, and quite a bit of it is deserved. It's not all of us, heck, it may not even be most of us, but it is enough to give the rest of us a bad name. Not all of us want to see "realistic" grim 'n' gritty in our faces all of the time, not all of us are bitching that our childhood is being raped, and not all of us want things to always be exactly the same as when we were growing up.

I've often heard of the 10-15 Year Rule, the illusion of change, that stories and characters in comics always start to recycle about that time, and when you notice it, it's time for you to quit reading funny books, grow up, move on, and let the younguns take over. I think that's hogwash, and if it is true, then it is very lazy and cynical on the part of the publishers and creators who follow it. It also does a disservice to the medium as a whole. While it is important that some comics always be suitable and available to kids, it doesn't necessarily mean that all comics should be that way. Much is made in America that in many places over the rest of the world, there is no stigma to adults reading comics or (don't hurt me, Eddie Campbell!) graphic novels, or whatever you want to call them. In places other than America, comics aren't just a medium for kids, we whine, but then accept the 10-15 Year Rule as gospel and snicker at the grownups caught looking at the funny books. It's a self-defeating standard.

Of course, there are those who insist that it's not the medium itself that is the problem, it's the aging fanboys who are still reading mainstream corporate comics about super heroes who should be ridiculed. This is also a view I reject. It is true that there is much more to the medium than stories about people wearing bright costumes hitting other people in bright costumes, and it is well worth your time to seek some of it out. After all, not to do so would be like eating every meal at Pizza Hut; yes, Pizza Hut is yummie, but gee, don't you ever wonder even a little bit about what's over at El Pollo Loco every now and then?

That still doesn't mean that super heroes should be collectively dismissed as juvenile. If stories about super heroes should only be created for and read by children, then why was one of the most universally praised fantasy stories of the past few years written by Grant Morrison, illustrated by Frank Quitely and Jamie Grant, and based entirely around Superman, the quintessential super hero?

Unfortunately, it really seems that the portion of aging fanboys who would rather look backward than forward, the ones who insist on merely the illusion of change, are the ones who are running things right now at DC and Marvel. The characters worked better the way they were back then, they say. The readers can't identify with the characters the way they are now, they say. The continuity has just gotten too complicated for everyone, they say--and then fix it by making things even more complicated. It's magic, they say, we don't have to explain it. Things are back to the way they were in 1976, Thor is in his Asgard, and all is right with the world. In short, things are back to the way they were when we were growing up, and that makes us comfortable. The rest of you, suck it.

That is why aging fanboys have gotten such a bad name, and that is why, even though I grew up with Barry Allen as the Flash, I still never particularly wished for him to come back, and would have instead much more preferred to simply have new and better stories told about Wally West. Thank you, and good night.

I completly agree with you, Melton. Especially about aging fanboys who prefer to look backwards instead of forwards. It becomes all the more obvious from those who prefer that ranging from Comic-Cons to comic-releated news websites.

For example, Newsarama.com, whenever posters with similar views like yours and/or mine put their two cents in regarding either Barry Allen being the Flash again or a recent poll for who should be Batgirl, its the very same aging fanboys you mentioned that become ignorant and makes a poor attempt in ripping one or more posters a new one for trying to state the obvious. Despite the fact that folks like Geoff Johns, Judd Winick and Grant Morrison are good writers, they're only adding to this type of problem and it's not doing DC any favors when it comes to sales and readership either (i.e.Infinite Crisis, One Year Later, Final Crisis,etc.).

I've been reading comics for ten years now and, yes I never grew up with Barry Allen nor Hal Jordan, but I did buy some old back issues featuring them. They were cool before my time, but years later (including the 90s and today), not so much. I grew up with both Wally West and Kyle Rayner. Hell, I even adore Dick Grayson as Nightwing a lot more than him Robin, Cassandra Cain as Batgirl and with Marvel, the Spider-Man/Mary-Jane marriage. I feel that people like Dan Didio and Joe Quesada are destroying the stuff that worked post-Crisis or other events before they were promoted like DC's post-Crisis continuity. Dick Grayson shouldn't be Batman, there should't be a "New Krypton" nor bringing back the Multiverse , and Spider-Man/Peter Parker shouldn't make a deal with some devil by throwing his marriage to MJ in favor of keeping Aunt May alive, making him some kind of "Mama's Boy" or in that case "Auntie's Boy".

You summed it up perfectly when you stated that things are back to the way they were when we were growing up, and that makes us comfortable and the rest of you(including Geoff Johns, Grant Morrison and the rest), suck it. Even though I never grew up with the Multiverse, Barry Allen, Hal Jordan and eveything else before I was born, doesn't mean I really want those stuff back and ruin it for those who were interested in new modern age stories. Thus, I stopped reading mainstream DC and currently reading other comics like Hellblazer(DC/Vertigo) and (from Dynamite) The Boys.

Those type of aging fanboys is making every fanboy like you and/or me look bad in the long run. Sad,but true.