Comic Book Resources

If Morrison had got the writing gig for in-continuity Superman, we might not have got All-Star Superman.

If Morrison hadn't left when he did for New X-men, we might not have gotten Whedon's Astonishing X-men(which I love, and I know a lot of you don't but whatever).

If Daredevil's life wasn't so shitty, we wouldn't be getting the past few years worth of great stories ^_^

If we didn't get the totally not entertaining Secret Invasion, we wouldn't be having the totally entertaining Dark Reign

If the original X-Men series hadn't tanked (and gone into reprints), we may have never been introduced to the Second Genesis crew in Giant Size X-Men. No Storm, no Colossus, no Nightcrawler, no Thunderbird. And no Banshee, Sunfire, or Wolverine as X-Men.

You had a chance to sneak in a Dylan reference, and didn't take it?!? Alright, who's posting things under Brian's name?

If Marvel had published Paul Grist's Union Jack series, we wouldn't have Jack Staff.

If hiring John Buscema or Gil Kane was less expensive, Barry Windsor-Smith would not have drawn Conan.

The sales thing works for Peter David's Hulk, too, since the only reason he got the book was that no one else wanted it.

If Emerald Night never happened, we wouldn't have Geoff John's run on Green Lantern.

If Alan Moore didn't have his falling out with DC, we probably wouldn't have a lot of his independent work.

If Bloodlines never happened, we wouldn't have Garth Ennis' Hitman.

If it weren't for bad crossovers like Zero Hour and Bloodlines we never would have had Jack Knight as Starman or Hitman.

I'm not 100% sure of the facts, but I believe Alan Moore wanted to use the Charlton characters for Watchmen, but editorial said 'no'.

If they had said 'yes', no Rorshach, Dr. Manhattan, Comedian...no Watchmen as we know it and love it today.

Okay, now I can't stop thinking of this stuff:

-If Jack Kirby hadn't drawn Spider-Man too bulky for Stan Lee's liking, no Ditko Spider-Man.

-If Shooter hadn't made Claremont and Byrne change their story, no classic ending to the Dark Phoenix Saga.

-If readers hadn't voted to kill Robin, probably no Tim Drake and the subsequent Robin series.

-On a more cynical note, if Todd McFarlane didn't hoard the rights to Miracleman, my back issues would be worth less money (still wish that would sort itself out, though, I'm not selling them anyway).

-Just thought of another: if Stan Lee hadn't been so depressed about comics he wanted to quit, he wouldn't have thought 'screw it' and done whatever he wanted while writing Fantastic Four no. 1, and he and Jack Kirby wouldn't have created the Marvel Age of comics.

Hmmmmmm...I guess if Mark Waid had been more agreeable to Alex Ross' ideas, we would have gotten the original plans for "The Kingdom" sequel to "Kingdom Come" instead of the version we got which created Hypertime (which was used twice more and never again).

On the other hand, Ross' ideas were eventually used in the "Thy Kingdom Come" storyline in JSA, which I didn't read but understand was quite good.

If the sales on Green Lantern and Green Arrow hadn't been in the basement back in the 70's, then Denny O'Neil and Neil Adams wouldn't have been given free reign with the characters.

If Giffen and DeMatteis had been allowed to use DC's big guns, we wouldn't have Justice League International.

If Mark Hamill hadn't been typecast, he wouldn't have played the voice of The Joker.

One more:

If Stan Lee and Steve Ditko hadn't had a falling-out, we wouldn't have John Romita Sr.'s Spider-Man.

And again:

If the producers of "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman" hadn't wanted them to delay Clark Kent and Lois Lane's wedding, we wouldn't have the Death of Superman.

Would it have been a bad thing to not have the Death of Superman?

Death of Superman is what got me into comics!

Had the Image crew gotten the deals they wanted from Marvel, we would've had to spend the rest of the 90s reading poorly-written Marvel comics that often had bad art as opposed to... wait, we got terribly-written comics with bad art from Marvel anyway. Plus some terrible Image comics.

Well then... I got nothin'

The Mad Maple? The ORIGINAL T.M. Maple? If so, then sir I salute you.

That being said I must take issue with your assertion regarding Green Lantern & Green Arrow. You have no idea how many times I have wished (and many others have as well) that Denny and Neal HADN'T gotten to do that crap.

Yes crap. Because that run, along with Stan Lee's Spider-Man "Drug" issues were boring (at least from a dramatic point of view) and to my way of thinking hurtful to comics in general. Excuse my capitals, but...I DO NOT READ COMICS FOR REALISM! I cannot overstress that. Real is right out my window, if I want to see it I can turn my head. Comics should be fantasy and that's why (IMNotHO) readership has dwindled over the years, because we have gone far too far towards the opposite shore.

Brian, a suggestion for Legends revealed. "Is it true that Denny and Neal's Green run had no real positive effect on sales?"

Sorry for the vitriol, but I've needed to get that off my chest for a while.

> The Mad Maple
I'm probably going to be the only person it bothers, but I cringe every time I see someone using the screen name of a gentleman now dead I exchanged messages with and respected... I guess that's an unlucky break for Jim Burke but a lucky break for the new guy,

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=144758

If Tony DeZuniga hadn't worked for DC comics, Carmine Infantino may never have signed an exclusive contract with all those Filipino artists. Its hard to imagine bronze era D.C. without E.R. Cruz or Nestor Redondo.

Bizarrely, I had absolutely no idea he had passed on. I always admired his spirit and perspicacity.

If Carmine Infantino hadn't said, "No," and stuck to his guns when Dave Cockrum wanted the original art to the wedding of Bouncing Boy and Duo Damsel back, he wouldn't have crossed the floor and gone to Marvel and there would be no Nightcrawler, Storm, Colossus or Thunderbird in the X-Men. Plus, Jean Grey would not have become Phoenix, and somebody else would have had to come up with a design for what Wolverine looked like when he took off the costume that John Romita designed.

If Newsarama hadn't been bought out by Imaginova, then we wouldn't have Robot 6.

Am I doing this right?

You're not alone, Mike. It makes me cringe every time, too.

Forgot to add to my previous post that there would be no Shi'ar Empire, Imperial Guard, Starjammers, or Mystique, either... at least, not at Marvel.

If Bryan Lee O'Malley's friends hadn't disliked Lost at Sea, then we wouldn't have gotten Scott Pilgrim.

If Jeffrey Brown's professor's had liked his paintings we may have never gotten Clumsy, and his subsequent comic career.

If Jean Luc Picard hadn't gotten in a bar fight and got stabbed in the chest as a cadet, he never would have become a Captain, and merely been a low level medical officer (lol).

if brian had been given magneto for the cabal emma would not be a member. if marvel had stuck with frank little deal to keep elektra dead no bad storeis and possibly no bad film. if shooter had not had such a fit about marvel characters being beat by dc it would not have taken twenty years to finaly have jla vs avengers. if neil gainman had been allowed to use phantom stranger no sandman would have happend

We would have gotten Max Gaines' Educational Comics instead of Bill Gaines' Entertaining Comics if the former hadn't died in a boating accident.

-If Jack Kirby hadn't gotten fired from DC for suing for his share on the "Sky Kings" comic strip, he never would have worked for Marvel.

-If Bill Gaines didn't run into Al Feldstein on his way home, MAD would have ended when Harvey Kurtzman left to work for Playboy.

-If Mort Weisinger hadn't been so abusive to Roy Thomas, he would have stayed at DC and not had his classic runs on the Avengers, Conan, Invaders and many, many other books.

-If DC would have had accurate sales figures on Kirby's 4th World books, they would have continued and Kirby would not have gone back to Marvel in 1975.

-If not for a freak snowstorm, there would have been no DC Implosion

-If not for the Star Wars comic, Marvel would have shut down in 1978 according to Roy Thomas and Jim Shooter

"If not for a freak snowstorm, there would have been no DC Implosion"

Was the DC Implosion a good thing?

@David: So you want the medium and/or genre to be limited to patronizing Saturday morning action with no emotional substance whatsoever? I want fantasy in terms of breaking the laws of physics with pseudoscience and magic, but I want the way people react to those things to feel real. Sales have not been in constant decline since the late '60s. They have gone up and down at various times, while "magical realism" (the literary term for having fantasy elements with real emotions) has only become more common. It's simplistic and arrogant to assume that if you don't like something it must be responsible for falling sales. But back on topic.
If comics sales hadn't tanked in the '70s then we wouldn't have had the anything goes attitude that made Claremont's early work so awesome.
If Didio hadn't wanted to kill Dick Grayson then the groundswell of support wouldn't have existed to catapult him into prominence.
If Simonson hadn't quit New Mutants then we wouldn't have Nicieza's X-Force.
If M-Day hadn't happened then we wouldn't have had Messiah Complex.
If New X-Men hadn't been canceled then we wouldn't have gotten Zeb Wells' New Mutants.
If The X-Men hadn't been basically canceled in 1970 then we wouldn't have gotten the All New, All Different X-Men, or X-Factor.
If Stan Lee hadn't taken all the big guns out of The Avengers then we wouldn't have gotten Hawkeye, Quicksilver, or Scarlet Witch.
If Kirby hadn't left Marvel then we wouldn't have gotten The Fourth World, The Demon, and all his other '70s stuff at DC.
If the real X-Force hadn't been pushed into limbo then we wouldn't have gotten Milligan's X-Force.
Conversely, if Milligan's X-Force hadn't been canceled then we wouldn't have gotten Kyle and Yost's X-Force.
I know there are more. I'll probably post them tomorrow.

If Doc Samson had gone ahead, Robinson wouldn't have reword an idea into The Shade.
If LXG had been any good, we wouldn't have Robinson back on comics.

If Morrison hadn’t left when he did for New X-men, we might not have gotten Whedon’s Astonishing X-men(which I love, and I know a lot of you don’t but whatever).

Yeah, not really a plus...

If Morrison hadn't of gotten treated like crap by Jemas, we wouldn't have gotten Seven Soldiers.

-If Shooter hadn’t made Claremont and Byrne change their story, no classic ending to the Dark Phoenix Saga.

It's only a 'classic ending; in the sense that it's the ending to a 'classic' - I don't think anyone was or is particuarly enthusiastic about that ending.

If Kids WB hadn't turned down Bruce Timm's pitch for a kid-ified Justice League cartoon we wouldn't have gotten Cartoon Network's Justice League and Justice League Unlimited.

If James Cameron had gotten to make his Spider-Man film we wouldn't have gotten Sam Raimi's Spider-Man series.

If "Batman & Robin" hadn't tanked, we wouldn't have gotten Christopher Nolan's reinvention of the franchise.

(By the way, seems some folks are missing the point of this discussion - - isn't it supposed to be how a bad development turned out good in the long run and not just how one thing led to another?)

Have a good day.
John Cage

(By the way, seems some folks are missing the point of this discussion - - isn’t it supposed to be how a bad development turned out good in the long run and not just how one thing led to another?)

Correct.

More specifically, though, I think it'd be a situation where the "bad" situation turned out to be good for the person who the "bad" thing happened to.

@Mike Blake: I started using this screenname in another forum, long before I learned about Jim Burke's untimely passing, and kept using it as my own meager way of honouring the man. In retrospect, I should've know better than to use it in a comic-book forum. If it offends that many people, I'll use a different name.

If the Flash TV series doesn't get cancelled, Mark Waid probably doesn't get to take over Flash.

If 'if's and 'but's were candies and nuts, we'd all have a merry Christmas.

"-If Shooter hadn’t made Claremont and Byrne change their story, no classic ending to the Dark Phoenix Saga.

It’s only a ‘classic ending; in the sense that it’s the ending to a ‘classic’ - I don’t think anyone was or is particuarly enthusiastic about that ending."

I guess that's a matter of opinion, but I get the strong impression many people were moved by the death of Phoenix in a way they wouldn't have been with the original "de-powered ending". They certainly were when the issue came out. Remember, this was before the death of a major character became a common publicity stunt, cheapened by an inevitable resurrection.

Here' s one from a quote I heard someone give in an interview (or a paraphrase, maybe someone remembers the exact source?):

-If Joss Whedon had had ONE good day in high school, there would have been no Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

-- If the artist-driven speculator boom-and-crash of the 1990s hadn't happened, we wouldn't have gotten the writer-driven efforts at a recovery.

-- If Marvel hadn't mistreated Steve Gerber and Jack Kirby, we might not have gotten their contribution to the creators' rights movement.

-- If DC's 1940s books hadn't been cancelled, we wouldn't have gotten DC's Silver Age and the JLA/JSA team-up stories.

-- If the Mackie/Byrne Spider-relaunch hadn't become a mess, Paul Jenkins would never have written those great Spider-Man stories.

-- If the Marvel Knights Captain America hadn't tanked financially and creatively, we'd never have gotten Brubaker's Cap.

-- If John Byrne's proposal for Wolverine's unmasked appearance hadn't been rejected, he'd never have co-created Sabretooth in order to use it.

-- If Captain America's 1950s stories hadn't been forgotten in the 1960s, we'd never have gotten Engelhart's 50s Cap story. If the shock of Watergate hadn't forced Engelhart to scrap his plans for the Viper storyline in Captain America, we'd never have gotten the Secret Empire story.

-- If Archie Goodwin hadn't gotten bored writing Batman, he would never have poured himself into the Manhunter stuff with Walt Simonson.

If terrible sales on Amazing Fantasy hadn't led to the cancellation of the book, Martin Goodman never would have given Stan Lee the okay to use his new character to fill the space in the final issue, since he thought no one would want to read about a super-hero based on a bug.

If Jack Kirby hadn’t drawn Spider-Man too bulky for Stan Lee’s liking, no Ditko Spider-Man.

It wasn't the bulkiness that was the issue, it was that he was too dashing looking. Ditko himself did a bulky Spider-Man, at least as bulky as your average Kirby character.

I posted my response to on my blog, so as not to clog up this site, but it seems to have disappeared from this column.
My response is at:

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=73350897&blogId=494242895

if anyone is interested.

If Gerry Conway hadn't basically destroyed the JLA with the Detroit team, we never would have gotten the Giffen/DeMatties years.

If John Byrne hadn't taken over Superman, George Perez wouldn't have taken on Wonder Woman.

If a fanzine writer hadn't tracked down Will Eisner, he never would have gotten back into comics and written his graphic novels.

If Jerry Siegel hadn't been so offended by the Superman movie, we might never have known who created Superman.

If any comic strip syndicate had bought Superman, we might not have comic books today!

If DC hadn't stopped Rick Veitch's Swamp Thing meets Jesus story...
1. Veitch wouldn't have written Brat Pack and the Maximortal
2. Gaiman and Morrison would have taken over Swamp Thing after Rick's departure. Losing Nancy Collins' run on the title would have been no great loss, but on the other side, it could mean less Sandman and who-knows-what ripple effects on Morrison's subsequent works...

I DO think the DC Implosion was a good thing in the long run. DC was putting out a lot of books that just weren't very good, and with the implosion they brought in their focus and slowloy started the build to their creative peak in the 80's, a lot like how Marvel started their creative build when they lost their distribution dear and had to cut back to 8 titles a month in the 50's and 60's.

If network censors hadn't forbidden Timm and Dini from showing the Flying Grayson's deaths in "Robin's Requiem(Batman: TAS)," they would not have made the scene nearly as dramatic and cool as it was. Compare to death scene from "The Batman."

If Bendis hadn't been fired by McFarlane, we wouldn't have Ultimate Spider-Man...

If Mark Waid hadn't hated working at Crossgen, despite his output being great,t we wouldn't have gotten his Fantastic Four run.

If Warren Ellis' Santanna hadn't been rejected by Marvel's new owners, we never would have gotten Strange Kiss, and Avatar may still have just been a porn publisher - none of their works from him, Ennis, Grant, Delano or Moore adaptations could have come about.

If Oscar Jimenz had made deadlines, Ellis wouldn't have worked with Hitch and Neary on Stormwatch, and The Authority may never have come to be.
(I believe Brian covered this once before).

– If Archie Goodwin hadn’t gotten bored writing Batman, he would never have poured himself into the Manhunter stuff with Walt Simonson.

I'm not sure that's how that happened - he was editor of the book and needed a backup.
From my understanding it was Simonsons art that made him throw himself into Manhunter.

If Bendis hadn’t been fired by McFarlane, we wouldn’t have Ultimate Spider-Man…

Yes you would have, it was him writing Ultimate Spiderman that got him fired, and not even that - he wanted off of Hellspawn and took Ultimate Spiderman, and McFarlane saw it as taking Marvel gigs over his gigs, and not that Bendis didn't like writing Hellspawn.

I miss the awesomeness and brashness (a nice way of saying how crazy the shitty ones were) of Marvel 2001-02 comics.

If DC hadn’t rejected Paul Jenkins’ Hourman pitch and forced him to rework the character into something new then we wouldn’t have all that “great” Bendis Sentry stuff. Well, they can’t all be winners.

In all seriousness, there’d be no Sandman if DC had allowed Gaiman to write the Phantom Stranger series he wanted.

"I DO think the DC Implosion was a good thing in the long run."

In that case wouldn't the lucky unlucky break be "DC Implosion caused DC to focus and create fewer, better comics"?

it was [Bendis] writing Ultimate Spiderman that got him fired, and not even that - he wanted off of Hellspawn and took Ultimate Spiderman, and McFarlane saw it as taking Marvel gigs over his gigs, and not that Bendis didn’t like writing Hellspawn.

Hmm, I knew the timing was close. Oh well. We'll do this, then:

If McFarlane hadn't been unable to find a company that could make toys the way he wanted, action figures wouldn't have evolved to the level they have today.

If McToys' sculptors hadn't been so marginalized, the Four Horsemen would never had started working for Mattel, launching the DC and He-Man lines; also, NECA would still be a company making lunchboxes and shot glasses.

(those are vaguely comic-related examples, no?)

If DC hadn’t rejected Paul Jenkins’ Hourman pitch and forced him to rework the character into something new then we wouldn’t have all that “great” Bendis Sentry stuff. Well, they can’t all be winners.

The original Sentry series with Lee was pretty damn good.

If the CCA hadn't killed crime comics then we never would have had the return of super heroes.

If DC hadn't stopped the use of Captain Marvel, then Mick Anglo would never have had to create Marvelman.

"If Marvel doesn’t go bankrupt, we probably don’t see their awesome 2001-02 comics."

Could you elaborate on this statement in a future column? I got out of comics when they got god-awful in the early 1990s, started picking up a lot of back issues around 2000 (but older stuff, 1960s-70s), and not until a couple years ago did I get back into the current stuff.

I've often wondered what I missed, but my occasional forays back into the 1990s haven't really paid off.

If Giffen had been allowed to use the big guns for the Justice League we would never have gotten the JLI as we know it.

"The original Sentry series with Lee was pretty damn good"

Yes, it was. The thing is that everything since (even the Jenkins/JRJR mini) has been REALLY bad.

If Julius Schwartz hadn't believed that DC didn't have the rights to use Plastic Man, we wouldn't have gotten Elongated Man and all those classic Broome/Infantino back-ups in 60s Flash comics.