Comments on: A Year of Cool Comic Book Moments - Day 167

By: JoeMac

JoeMac — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:49:53 +0000

Growing up, I always thought of this storyline as the most important storyline in comic book history. Not necessary the greatest story (although it is great), but the most impactful, the most powerful in terms of defining the Spider-Man mythos (and therefore the entire cornerstone of modern comics IMO). I could never understand how anyone could retcon it. But I guess to each their own.

After all, when I was nine or ten years old, I couldn't understand why Crisis on Infinite Earths and John Byrne's subsequent retcon of Superman bothered my dad so much that he stopped reading DC Comics for five or six years (and still hasn't read a Superman comic printed post-1985 to this day).

Now, as I see my more and more of my 'sacred' stories get defiled, I start to see my myself getting closer to looking from the same POV as my father. Am I just getting old, or are some comics getting lazier (especially Marvel)?

By: Misterblue77

Misterblue77 — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 18:28:23 +0000

My understanding was that JMS intended for Gwen to have been pregnant by Pete, not Norman, but that Quesada would not allow it (which makes sense by his logic -- if he thinks it made Spidey seem to old and grown up to be married, then how much more so to be married and to have kids out there from a previous relationship?). So JMS had to go with Gwen, which did allow for the artificially-aged children to remain, but completely changed the tone of everything else.

If they had been Pete's children, I think it would not have been a particularly offensive retcon, and for me may have even added an interesting layer to the whole thing -- others may differ on that though. Either way, what we got was hard to reconcile with the classic story Brian highlights here.

By: Dr Kiebler

Dr Kiebler — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 14:47:42 +0000

Please. What woman could resist a man with hair like Norman Osborn? I'm surprised he didn't knock up MJ and Aunt May too.

By: Blackjak

Blackjak — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 14:40:13 +0000

I didn't think JMS wrote Sins Past... I thought that was Whatsherface (JMS' "Protege"?) in Spectacular Spider-Man?
And JMS was working from Quesada's direction for One More Day.

By: Lt. Clutch

Lt. Clutch — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 12:27:29 +0000

It took me until now to notice that Osborn's jet-flier got pancaked by Spidey into the deadly weapon that slew the Goblin at the end. Up to now, I had thought it was "pointy" until Osborn bought it and later versions were flat at the end to prevent more accidents. But then, I also thought the Goblin was still around in 1983 - a full decade later when the events in this story first blew me away.

You learn something new every day. Classic death scene, btw.

By: Fisk

Fisk — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 09:17:33 +0000

Felipe: JMS specifically wanted to erase Sins Past from continuity by the means of Mephisto-magic of OMD. He himself admitted that Sins Past was a mistake. But JoeQ didn't let him. Go figure...

By: Felipe

Felipe — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 04:18:56 +0000

>Don’t forget the Retconned reason for attacking Gwen (she’s supposedly pregnant with Norman’s children), or something like that.

...oh, please, please Mephisto, make this go away...

By: Capt USA

Capt USA — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 23:33:47 +0000

I wish people would get a little over the bringing back of dead villains, if the villain died over 5 years of real time, then there is no reason to not bring him back. Come up with a good reason to bring him back, I think that is necessary, but beyond that, a villains resurrection should be allowed. (a hero resurrection that involved a major sacrifice on the other hand should be handled a little more carefully)

as to the other complaint, yep agree the Norman nailing Gwen cheapened both characters dramatically. I mean Gwen was supposed to be the love of Peters life up to that point in time and she somehow hooked up with a guy that makes every women on the planet skin crawl (some like it that type of guy, Gwen isn't one of them) is just utterly destruction of a good character.

By: jfk5351

jfk5351 — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 20:10:56 +0000

I'm not opposed to ret-cons as a concept, but why would you take one of the seminal tales of the Bronze Age and trash it so more folks can play in the sandbox. Cmon folks, step up and give us new villians worthy of Spidey. Don't drag the past through the gutter for no good reason (JMS, Sins Past).

By: Julian

Julian — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:19:02 +0000

I think that's the moment Brian mentioned at the onset as the one he really wants to get to.

By: Lawrence

Lawrence — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:13:38 +0000

Was this the issue that MJ, despite Peter lashing out at her, decide to stay to comfort him? I've personally always thought that was a cool comic book moment.

By: Harry

Harry — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:54:42 +0000

You go jfk5351!!!! The whole idea of retconning displays a TOTAL lack of originality on the current slate of writers . It's an insult to all of us.

By: Matt Beahan

Matt Beahan — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:50:40 +0000

David M - that game is Subbuteo. That's how Fury lost his eye, flicking the kick....

By: jfk5351

jfk5351 — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:20:48 +0000

I'm sorry. For me the current "Norman Osborn" is either an impostor or a clone. The real Norman died in this issue. Sins Past, One More/Brand New Day, the Clone Saga, the death of baby May...never happened. Screw ya, JMS and Joey Q and friends.

By: David M

David M — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:10:00 +0000

Re-reading this issue makes you realize that JMS's "Sins Past" storyline (in which Osborn schtups Gwen) is the worst Spidey storyline ever. Makes "One More Day" (another JMS-credited creation) look like Shakespeare.

By: T.

T. — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:09:17 +0000

Brace yourself, because this is a real stretch.

But the theory is that the Goblin formula that made him super strong also made his heart super strong, so it could survive a puncture wound (plus, there might have been some sort of low-level healing factor worked in there, too).

Nothing was mentioned about a super-strong heart, just that he had a healing factor. And I don't think it was that much of a stretch as far as superhero retcons go to give him a healing factor. What I thought was the real stretch was the elaborate cover-up where he woke up in a morgue alive, snuck out, found a bum, killed him, snuck the bum back into the morgue and replaced his body with the dead bum, who was then buried in his place, while he lived in Europe in secrecy, only to return to America to minimal questioning. All of that is way more of a stretch than the simple "I had a healing factor" retcon.

By: David M

David M — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:06:30 +0000

Also, in case you were wondering, "The most dangerous game of all is played by Sgt. Fury!"

By: Brud Lee

Brud Lee — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:05:30 +0000

Don’t forget the Retconned reason for attacking Gwen (she’s supposedly pregnant with Norman’s children), or something like that.

Can't I? Please?

By: Brian Cronin

Brian Cronin — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 17:52:21 +0000

I’m not up on the Spider-man continuity, but how was it that Norman Osborne survived this death?

Brace yourself, because this is a real stretch.

But the theory is that the Goblin formula that made him super strong also made his heart super strong, so it could survive a puncture wound (plus, there might have been some sort of low-level healing factor worked in there, too).

By: Ellis Wyatt

Ellis Wyatt — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 17:49:40 +0000

While many of the other moments in this issue are more important from a storytelling standpoint, on an emotional level, I always get a bit chocked up at "You took her away!" The layout of the speech balloons really helps the delivery.