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This was longer than expected. Apologies. This stuff just bothers me (and I wish I could just let it go and walk away, but as a lifetime fan of comics, I can't...it's a bad place to be personally).

Why wouldn't the Red Skull just use a real gun and kill the guy who he's wanted to kill since forever?

And here I thought they'd take the easy way out and just have it turn out that Rogers was a Skrull fomenting dissent in Civil War to keep the heroes busy while the Invasion took place and the real Rogers was somewhere else. Color me surprised. I suppose a space-time storyline would be interesting...if Bruce Wayne wasn't already lost in space-time.

I'm sorry to be one of the first comments and being snarky on something truthfully that I probably won't pick up, and it's not to undermine Brubaker's writing, which is hit or miss for me, but really, I just feel these cheap stunts of killing major characters to bring them back later after proclaiming they're dead forever does more to alienate a readership than actually have the guts to see it through. I'm almost completely jaded over what's essentially writing fraud (here, we're going to proclaim that an icon who's been around forever is going to die...really, we mean it this time; ooh, gotcha again. Your hero is back and better than ever just over two years later) that I'm just about done. I'm sure we'll see Bruce Banner or Peter Parker or Wolverine or whoever die next just so they can cash in because no matter how many times they do this, people buy it believing it's something that it just isn't.

This would be harmless, except that the company creates a buzz and demand for your books that cause them to be sold by retailers and online to others at inflated prices which people then buy because they believe they're getting a piece of history. A lot of us have seen the game and have stopped falling for it, but there are a lot of people who bought that issue of Captain America 2 years ago when he died believing it to be a historic event and paying a price for it, and now the issue is effectively devalued, and probably will fall in price until it's no different in value than anything else. Now people can do what they want with their money, and investments (if you want to call them that) in comics is a choice that could blow up in your face, but when you (as the company) are deliberately portraying something as a permanent event and then deciding to alter that event because you can later (with creative control), you're engaging in a practice that deliberately misleads the public about what your product is in order to get them to buy it (especially when you hype said storyline on late night TV shows like the Colbert Report).

Comics readers, especially vets, get it and can understand that dead guy doesn't stay dead. The larger public that they try to reach doesn't get it, though, and that's the shame. It kills me that they have all these characters with all this potential, and all they can do is come up with major events that are often non-sensical or ultimately meaningless to drive sales.

I know the companies have to survive, but the overuse of character death and resurrection to propel sales needs to stop.

Not that I'm reading this series (I need more convincing)...but what if Cap is returned to the present not from when he died, but from some other point in his history? Say, like he'd just woken up from the ice (which, incidentally, is how Stark left his corpse at the end of "Fallen Son.")

Then you'd have the fresh perspective of Cap waking up in the Marvel Universe anew, as if it were 1964 all over again...although he'd have to deal with a) an even more dramatically changed world, and b) living up to a legacy that he hasn't actually lived yet (from his perspective). Could definitely be more interesting than a simple "Hey I'm dead....wait, no I'm not" return.

I'd like to see at least ten comments from people who aren't reading the comic but want to talk about it.

Do not disappoint me, people!

Well, my comments weren't completely directed at this comic in particular in terms of what may be going on in the story or quality of the writing/art or anything, and maybe that makes this the wrong forum. Many of these stories can be written well and can be entertaining; I have no doubt that Brubaker can make it a good read and worth picking up for those who like the character or who like Brubaker's writing. My concerns are more towards why this story keeps getting done and what is the real damage to those who buy it believing the story is something it isn't.

So I guess it boils down to do you buy it because it's merely a good read and forget about the number of resurrections we've seen/will be seeing of late, or are you sick of the same story being replayed no matter how skillfully it's done?

The Skull's never wanted to kill Cap, really, so much as burn America to the ground while making him watch.

Going back through his appearances, in fact, he almost invariably tries to suborn Cap or flat-out crush his spirit every time out of the gate.

I can't fucking believe they ripped off Slaughterhouse-Five.

deep breath....

I CAN'T FUCKING BELIEVE THEY RIPPED OFF SLAUGHTERHOUSE-MOTHERFUCKING-GODDAMN-FIVE!!!!!!!

Read it. Didn't care for it.

The art is pretty, the writing is solid; the story lines up with everything else that Bru was doing in the title, I understand and appreciate the "Man out of Time" parallels with his Modern Day discovery, I got the "Slaughterhouse Five" homage (although the "lost in time" crap happened to Batman, it's more of a Volcano/Dante's Peak scenario at work here). It's a great primer to the character while not feeling redundant to the long-running story-line; it's smart marketing and a decent story, wrapped up in a pretty package of Hitchian goodness.

I just don't *care*

Like, after all these great down-to-Earth stories with a little science fiction, we have the Red Skull plucking Steve Rogers from the past for some reason? He better have a ridiculously compelling reason for doing so, after he HAD HIM KILLED IN THE FIRST PLACE. It has to be more compelling than wanting to inhabit his body, or wanting to break him, or wanting to kill him with his bare hands -- it just has to be. After 3 years of stories the reason for his return had better be so damned compelling my testicles explode.

Verdict: While technically good, I remain unimpressed with the hopes that it'll surprise me with something clever.

I thought the art had a rather crude look to it at points. Like the style I've seen on Ultimates, which I really don't care much for. To murky and muddy.

As someone thinking this might be a good jumping on point for reading Captain America, I can say this: it's a lousy jumping on point. However, I've heard that Brubaker's run on this book will one day be legendary, so it might just be me.

Also: doesn't anyone else in the world think Cat's Cradle is the much better book? I surely can't be the only one who wonders why, year after year, high school teachers assign one over the other.

Hey, guys !

I enjoyed this comic even if it wasn't ground breaking & had a plot used and re-used in comics.
Brubaker is still a great writer & the Hitch/Guice team up made it look cool.

At this point, don't you think that Bru run on Captain America could be titled "Lifes & deaths" (he resurected Bucky, then he killed Cap & now he's resurecting Cap...)

RE: Eric

My fave is The Sirens of Titan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sirens_of_Titan

I think it was his best work.

"I’d like to see at least ten comments from people who aren’t reading the comic but want to talk about it."

Well, I haven't read any of Captain America since the John Ney Reiber and John Cassaday 6-issue run (which was what--forever and a day ago?) and that Kevin Maguire 4-issue mini series, on a WWII C.A.

I haven't bought into any of that Death of and Reborn of C.A. (excuse me, that's Steve Rogers).

BUT I'd like to fire that bonehead who pulled Hitch off the last issue of the Fantastic Four Millar-Hitch run, which was the only reason I was buy FF in the first place, and put Hitch on the C.A. Reborn thing.

hmmph!

I'll hold off on saying it ripped off Slaughterhouse-Five completely until apathetic aliens force Cap and Diamondback to mate in their human zoo. After all, it's not like the idea of asynchronic experience was original to S-5 either, and the phrase "unstuck in time" is a nod but it's not the entire plot.

My own favorite Vonnegut is Cat's Cradle, but surely the one you'd think would be assigned most often would be Mother Night, for all manner of reasons?

And honestly, pulling Hitch off of FF was hardly a bonehead move from the perspective of sales -- the Millar/Hitch FF experienced zero sales boost despite the creative team, and I'd wager even Hitch would rather be doing something else at this point. (It's also been complete shit as a story other than the first arc, but that's a whole 'nother argument.)

As to the rest...I'm not terribly bothered by Steve coming back in-story on the grounds that someone was going to do it at some point, and I'd rather see Brubaker handle it now than wait for someone lousier to make it so. I'm not bothered by the "just shoot him" argument with the Skull because, well, the Skull just shooting Cap is utterly out-of-character; contrived as the method of resurrection is -- and it was set up almost from the beginning, by the by -- the idea that the Skull doesn't just want to shoot Cap makes perfect sense to anyone who's read a post-Golden Age Red Skull story at some point in their lives. He's basically as close to Satan as you get without pulling in actual demons and magics and stuff, and like a Satan-figure, is far more interested in torturing an enemy forever or breaking their spirit than in bluntly eliminating them. Wanting it to be "more compelling than" that is, well, missing the point.

What other reason could there possibly be for the course of action?

In any case, I think Plok answered this objection pretty damn well, and anyone who's read Bru's interviews may have noted that he always always ALWAYS explicitly points out that the Red Skull is a crazy bastard. You, Joe Schmoe ont he message board, you'd just shoot the guy if you hated him. And that's why no one wants to read about your villainous exploits.

Holy Cow - I was just thinking the same thing -- although I enjoyed this first issue of Captain America:Reborn, I was disturbed at the sudden time/space displacement of Mr Hitch from the pages of the FF, right in the middle of the Marquis of Death kicking the FF's butts! (Although I AM looking forward to Stuart Immonen wrapping it up - he's a rock star)

I haven't been reading Captain America (gasp! But I have been looking over other people's shoulders - I might still borrow all those collections just to read up) but I thought that this looked like a good jumping on point. It was paced well, I like the "grit" that Mr Guice brings to Mr Hitch's pencils in this issue.

Trapped through time. By the Red Skull. Using the Cosmic Cube - or was that Dr Doom's time machine?

I have not read it... but I will.

I just want to comment on the idea that Red Skull should have just let Sharon kill Rogers.

Nope. Period.

The one thing that really bothered me when the assassination story happened is that it was so out of character for Red Skull having someone else kill him. Previous characterization made it perfectly clear that he would not do this.

As I said, I have yet to read Reborn, but the fact that Skull did NOT just let someone else kill Cap makes me happy.

Mr. Fitzpatrick, apparently you would like to fire the Grim Reaper, who took Bryan Hitch's mother away, causing the delay in his work that prevented him from finishing Fantastic Four on time. I'm sure somebody will find a way to spin Hitch attending and being emotionally broken up by the death of his own mother into an accusation of unprofessionalism, though.

A real professional would have killed his own family years before becoming a comics artist in order to avoid these sorts of delays, David.

Hey, I'm willing to get the book if the storytelling mechanism improves. As it is, I didn't get to the shop this week and wasn't sure if I should rush out to get this story, From the sound of things so far, no, I shouldn't, not when I already have a copy of Vonnegut on my shelf.

Once again, I'll point out the utter absurdity of the "Brubaker ripped of VonnegAAAARRRRGH!" argument, to wit:

Clearly, an anti-war novel about a meek midwesterner's PTSD allegorized as an uncontrollable jaunt through tim that culminates in his eventual murder after years of forced mating with a porn star in an alien zoo is the sole aned exact and horribly ripped-off source for a story about a chemically-mutated super-soldier patriot sent hurtling through time by his archfoe, a Nazi wearing a gory skeletal mask, in a comic book about punching people very hard.

Clearly, they're completely the same. Especially the bit where Billy Pilgrim dies and Cap not only doesn't die, but doesn't die because he's being pinballed through time.

Honestly, the usage of the term "unstuck in time" seemed to me more like Brubaker was channeling Vonnegut not to rip him off but as an efficient way of explaining the time travel methodology. Five word balloons from Arnim Zola going "Well you see his body is in the same place but his brain is pingponging back and forth but you have to realize that he can't change the past and bla bla bla" were pretty easily replaced with one S-5 reference and borrowing some terminology from Lost.

Brubaker's a good writer, and he knows how to write a compelling villain, and I'm sure he realizes Red Skull coming up with a fucked-up metaphysical torture for Steve is way more entertaining and sinister than just having his lady cap him in the abdomen.

"I’d like to see at least ten comments from people who aren’t reading the comic but want to talk about it."

Brian, what if the only people who read your reviews are people who don't read the comic? I quit reading it when they punked Cap in issue 25.

I looked through it, tried to make sense of the story (I couldn't), and found I was extremely disappointed with the art. The Hitch/Guice teamup produces a lesser brand of Hitch, which is a bad thing.

David Uzumeri --

This is the first I'd heard of Hitch's mother's passing, so maybe others hadn't heard it.

Marvel stated that the reason Hitch was off Fantastic Four was because he was needed to work on another project. Therefore, Tom Fitzpatrick may have been under the impression that it was an editorial edict that removed Hitch from FF, not the death of his mother.

I haven't read this book!

I don't really have an opinion on it, but pick two of three of those already expressed and consider them seconded.

Are we up to ten yet?

Also: doesn’t anyone else in the world think Cat’s Cradle is the much better book? I surely can’t be the only one who wonders why, year after year, high school teachers assign one over the other.

No, I think Slaughterhouse is worlds better than Cat's Cradle. And the thing about Cat's Cradle: you can't teach it. It's a marvelous novel, yes, but using it in a classroom setting inevitably ends with just paging through it saying "ooo, I liked this bit." It was on the reading list in a class I took, and the professor realized it wasn't really a "teaching book" and we dealt with it in half the allotted time.

Now, Galapagos, I think you could get something out of that.

Anyway, to get back on-topic, I found Reborn #1 to be thoroughly mediocre, and the entire method of Cap's survival being a blatant homage to Slaughterhouse-Five (even with the usage of "Listen..." to start the line), wherein someone who's lived a crazy life gets to flash back to their traumatizing days in WWII... well, it makes the whole thing come off as tired and lazy, really. Perhaps Brubaker can get a good story out of it, but I don't care enough to stick around. I haven't read any of his Cap run to date, and now I don't intend to.

But hey, he got mileage out of bringing Bucky back, and everyone thought that was sacrilege, so who knows?

I haven't read it, but I have ordered it. As much as I am enjoying Bucky-Cap, and don't want to see Steve Rogers return for a good few years, I still trust Brubaker to write a good, sensible story... that will probably tie-up nicely at the end of the series. As long as Quesada lets him do so.

@Omar "He’s basically as close to Satan as you get without pulling in actual demons and magics and stuff, and like a Satan-figure, is far more interested in torturing an enemy forever or breaking their spirit than in bluntly eliminating them. Wanting it to be “more compelling than” that is, well, missing the point."

So I should demand standardized characterization? I should set me expectations to "adeuqate?" This story needs to be fresh, exciting and interesting. Going back to the same reasons for doing something is *not* compelling. It's a retread.

But, as I said, I'm holding out hope that the reason is really, really, really good.

Something that's not been mentioned, I don't think, is that the opening narrative clearly states that the first shot was supposed to cause chaos, however, Cap jumped in the bullet's path to save the U.S. Marshall who was escorting him into the courthouse. So the intent was never to actually kill Cap.

The Red Skull's consciousness, at this time, remember, was trapped in the body of Aleksander Lukin, and Zola had a machine prepared which would shift him to a new home. This worked when Zola moved the Skull into a machine body at the end of issue 42 (I think that's the issue #).

It seems likely to me, then, that the Red Skull's plan was probably to use Doom's gun to, as they say in the book, freeze Cap's body in space/time, using Sharon Carter as an anchor, or "constant," kind of like bookmarking him in that moment so that it can be returned to later. He might only seem dead to the rest of the world that's moving on in space/time. Then, Doom's machine was intended to connect back to that bookmarked moment and bring through Cap's body, maybe without Cap's mind, allowing the Skull's consciousness to take his place.

At least, that's how it seems to me. Cap being unstuck in time may have been intended all along by the Skull, or not. It could have been a side-effect of Sharon sabotaging the attempt. We'll have to wait and see.

Or I could be completely wrong.

Sounds too ungodly stupid to bother with, I'm sorry to say. And I say that as someone who was reading the series regularly through issue 39 or so (I've picked up the next 7 or so used, but haven't yet read them) & who has more various-volume isues of Cap than any other comic, except for the LOSH.

The basic premise just goes to remind me why I've pretty much quit reading mainstream superhero titles the last year or so.

Shame on Marvel. Shame on Brubaker, for that matter.

Jack, I don't know what you're looking for, then. A character comes up with an especially outre method of achieving their usual goals -- kill Captain America so he can't interfere, ruin America and leave it under a fascist "Third Wing" political party, and then drag Cap back to life so you can make him choke on it -- and this is a flaw because the entirety of the scheme wasn't just "shoot my enemy and laugh a lot."

See, to me, the reductive "just kill him" nonsense is the standard, boring tripe. I can get that in real life; I don't need to pay for a comic that pays for Ed Brubaker to come up with that.

Again, try reading the link I posted earlier from plok's website. It addresses this whole thing so much more thoroughly than I do.

Or hey. let us all know your fresh take on Captain America and how the stuff in Reborn could have been done. Because, really, I'm tired of people demanding "new and fresh" when those words don't mean a goddamn thing by themselves. Warm horseshit is "new and fresh" too.

Omar, you're awfully angry when what I've said is, "I don't care for it, but I'm giving it a chance."

"Jack, I don't know what you're looking for then."

Something exciting? Because this doesn't excite me.

"A character comes up with an especially outre method of achieving their usual goals — kill Captain America so he can’t interfere, ruin America and leave it under a fascist “Third Wing” political party, and then drag Cap back to life so you can make him choke on it."

Except this isn't what happened. He failed.

So, really, that makes the plan "kill Captain America, attempt to ruin America and fail, accidentally lose Steve Rogers in the time stream even though his body is currently at the bottom of the ocean, then wish he were alive so I could kill him."

Steve Rogers being killed? That was exciting and unexpected. His return? Not so unexpected, but it better be exciting. I don't think that's too much to ask.

Anyway, like I said, I'm waiting to see what happens and I hope to be impressed -- because so far I am not.

Does anyone else think it would have been better for the story ( if not the sales ) to have Butch Guice do all the art, since he's already on the book inking Hitch's pencils? Hitch's work has gotten flatter and less dynamic in recent years, and this isn't a story where widescreen images of impressive tech set-pieces can compensate.

Warm horseshit is “new and fresh” too.

Yes, and it makes excellent fertilizer! A lot can grow from that new and fresh horseshit.

i have read this comic and i like it. it is new reader friendly and has a great story.

great job marvel.

" Or hey. let us all know your fresh take on Captain America and how the stuff in Reborn could have been done. Because, really, I’m tired of people demanding “new and fresh” when those words don’t mean a goddamn thing by themselves. Warm horseshit is “new and fresh” too. "

My own take would be to have the series end with Captain America dying again, but this time with a definitive heroic sacrifice, and one where he gets to give a meaningful monologue to the living heroes about how they should move on instead of hanging onto the need for him to return and save the day. Of course, I'm amongst the part of the readership who much prefers Captain Bucky, and thinks Steve Rogers has much more value dead than alive.

In any event, this issue disappointed me, because while I can appreciate the fact that Brubaker had an exit strategy in mind for Steve's death/trip through time, has anyone asked the heroes that in a world where Norman Osborn is in charge, trying to bring back Steve isn't the best use of time and resources?

Truth be told, Nitz, I'm not that excited about Steve returning either, but I recognize that a) it was evidently planned that way from the start and b) was going to happen at some point anyway given the vagaries of superhero publishing.

Those being the inevitable strictures on any "death of Cap" storyline, I tend to think Brubaker's doing the best possible job with what he's got, and I'd prefer he be the one to write the resurrection rather than the next guy the editor asks. Frankly, anyone thinking Cap was just going to be headshot and then never seen again outside of flashbacks and dreams was...well, dreaming.

There's also the other problem Bucky-Cap has, which is that he's rather convoluted for an icon character. Steve Rogers can be gotten over as "patriotic super-soldier of WWII revived in the present day to renew the fight." A similar summation of the Bucky/Winter Soldier/Cap would be much harder, I think. Try explaining either to a friend who doesn't read comics and I guarantee their eyes will glaze over a little earlier in with the Bucky-Cap version.

It does make me think of one question, though: how many superhero titles have actually killed off their original ongoing protagonist midstream and then gone with a permanent replacement in the same volume? Relaunches like Batman and Robin or the Wally-Flash are excluded by the "one-volume" rule; guys like David Knight's Starman iteration by the "ongoing protagonist" part.. Temporary replacement stories happen, yes, but generally speaking the volume will end with the character who was the start in issue #1.

The sole exception I can remember off the top of my head is Impact!'s version of the MLJ/Archie hero the Black Hood, which was a serial identity of sorts in the first place.

Oh, and Bill...nothing grows from new and fresh horseshit. It grows when the horseshit is left alone and gets a little old and stale.

Noone seems to comment on the weirdness of having Norman Osborn in this story.

The Norman Osborn that appears in comics now, behaving exactly like Lex Luthor, has such little resemblance to the basically good businessman who would occasionally have bout of psychosis in the classic Spider-man comics. But he's another example of a major character who was dramatically and undeniably dead, only to be returned with a convoluted explanation. The difference is that Cap's death was a stunt at the end of a stunt where everyone was behaving out of character and at cross-purposes to their own core concepts and Osborn's death was a natural conclusion to a storyline.

I have to say that Brubaker does handle these kind of stunts well, and I can't really say I'm annoyed with Cap's return. Considering that the first major storyline was returning Bucky to life, I wouldn't blink if Brubaker brought back Uncle Ben next. And, yes, it will no doubt be brilliantly written. But it will also undo and cheapen better stories written by others years ago. So, I, for one, would rather he utilize his considerable talents to build on previous stories instead of revising stories that have already been told.

Norman Osborn wasn't a basically good man who sometimes went crazygonuts Reread ASM #40 if you get the chance, because much of the point of that story is that Norman was a neglectful father and a ruthless jerk long before he ever got the Goblin juice. Indeed, why would a basically good man want to concoct the Goblin serum in the first place?

You're right Omar... he was a jerk and an abusive father... I should have said he was a basically normal (in comic book terms) man and tended to be good to people like Peter Parker but was selectively jerky to others. He was no Lex Luthor.. Nothing in those old books indicated he was anything approaching a criminal mastermind. Now he's in the heart of all misdeeds in the Marvel Universe.It was so much more interesting that Parker actually liked Osborn and feared him becoming the Goblin again. When Osborn died, Spidey actually mourned him and would have mourned him more, if Gwen hadn't also died.

Sigh, just thinking about Marvel's Osbournes upset me... With all the fuss about the non-existence of Pete and MJ's marriage, no one seems to care that Harry and Liz's marriage has also been wiped away. They're divorced I think. Odd. Wouldn't Mephisto want to leave that one as is? They had a such a twisted little family!

And doesn't Norman Osborn know Peter Parker is Spider-man? At least he did when he was in evil mastermind mode. And apparently he's in that mode all the time now. So why not send government agents into Parker's home and drag him off in the middle of the night?

Sigh. Oh well back to reading Spider-man Annual #16 and ignoring what's on the shelves now.

"Why wouldn’t the Red Skull just use a real gun and kill the guy who he’s wanted to kill since forever?"

Didn't anyone read CAPTAIN AMERICA #600? The Red Skull said he doesn't just want to kill Cap. He wants to torment Cap and prove he's better than Cap. Can't do that if Cap is dead.

The Joker sometime says his greatest pleasure is tormenting Batman. The Skull has the same attitude toward Cap. In fact, give the Skull a cackle, a squirting flower, and some Red Skull fish and he could be Marvel's Joker.

It seems Brubaker is trying to come up with a new variation on the usual tired "deathlike coma/clone/shapeshifter/alternate version from another time or dimension" explanation. Whether it ends up being anything other than another cliched superhero resurrection remains to be seen.

It's a bit odd that the world's greatest scientists (Stark, Pym, Richards, et al.) couldn't tell the difference between a dead body and a body frozen in time. In one, the blood pools and the flesh decays. In the other, it doesn't. This technology stuff is tricky, I guess. Maybe Reed's Decomposition Detector Doohickey was on the fritz that week.

I'd say CAPTAIN AMERICA #600 is superior to REBORN #1. The latter is decent but nothing special. As usual in today's comics, there are several full-page images wasting space. Get it if you're a Cap fan like me; otherwise skip it.