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But Nothing Really Matters Much…

It’s Doom alone that counts.

Click on the above image to see it in almost actual size.

Many thanks to Christos Seros for sharing this awesome John Byrne commission he bought with the rest of the world.

55 Comments

I love how even in a brief that was obviously ‘Doctor Doom destroys the DC Universe’, no one can bring themselves to showing Batman losing :D

Ha!

Yeah, Gavin, the fellow who commissioned the piece asked for Batman to be lurking in the background, ready to strike – I think Byrne did a nice job with that “stage direction.”

Now someone needs to commission one of a DC villian kicking the snot out of the Marvel U. I’m seeing Sinestro for some reason. or maybe Doomsday or power suit Lex.

I think Doom vs. Batman is one of the truly great unexplored match-ups in comics. They’re the two guys who can come up with a way to beat anyone, so how would they beat each other?

love how even as his allies have fallen including wonder woman and big blue that batman is still shown standing and refusing to just do nothing against doom too bad marvel and dc does not turn that art into a comic jla vs doom

Tony, Doom would pull out the gun he carries and shoot Batman in the face. Doom is not impressed with Batman’s rep, which is the only reason no one just doesn’t shoot him in the face.

I’d always heard Byrne put his heart and soul into commissioned pieces. It is nice to see that is the case.

LouReedRichards

July 30, 2009 at 8:41 am

That is almost too awesome for words.

Byrne has been off his A game for almost 20 years, but he hit this one out of the park!

Not that I don’t admire Batman and all, but he’s about to get taken down like a little school boy. :)

Honestly, other than Darkseid who in the DCU could do the same to Marvels top pantheon?

I don’t think it’s really a matter of power, it’s all about class and attitude – which Doom has in spades.

Thanks for sharing Christos – you’ve made my morning.

it’s good to see that it’s Hal and probably Barry getting their butts kicked, if it was Wally and Guy, Doom would have been in trouble..

@ Scavenger LOL! Go Doom and his gun!

This Christos Seros character intrigues me: He bought a John Byrne commission with the rest of the world. Such casual villainy is worthy of the 007 franchise!

“Not that I don’t admire Batman and all, but he’s about to get taken down like a little school boy.”

Actually, I was just thinking that Dr. Doom was, well, doomed. :) Sure, he’s beaten the rest, but if you haven’t taken out Batman first, you’ll lose every time

It’s only a Doombot. And Batman’s about to go all Captain Kirk on it.

“I think Doom vs. Batman is one of the truly great unexplored match-ups in comics. They’re the two guys who can come up with a way to beat anyone, so how would they beat each other?”

Doctor Doom has a time machine. I’m pretty sure that’s enough advantage for him.

Love, love, LOVE the Dylan reference here. Art’s not bad, either.

I remember an issue of Wizard from years ago that had a Marvel Villains vs. DC Villains match up, and it ended with Darkseid getting blasted from behind and saying “Who dares?!?” and Doom was all “Doom dares, miscreant!” or something. And he had the Infinity Gauntlet, I think.

Yeah if you were to show a Marvel villian taking out the DC heros Dr. Doom is the guy. I really have a hard time coming up with who DC would use to show them taking out the Marvel heros. I would read a book that had either Flash’s Rougues or the Secret Six trying to do so. :D

Whoa… Byrne is really back with a vengeance with that one. It’s the best I’ve seen from him recently. Marvel should let him do a FF or Doctor Doom limited series, if ony to rectify what Millar/Ahearne have done.

I have to wonder about the way he’s got Doom sort of half embracing and strangling Wonder Woman. I guess he can’t make up his mind.

BTW, I wonder if Bryne did his own inking on that?

Byrne sure makes a lot of money using characters not belonging to him. He’s a vampire. Why doesn’t he create something of his own?

This is a nice piece, really, but I have to say – and I’m saying this as an unashamed fan of Byrne – I’m getting a little tired of his not uncommon scenes of female characters in those dramatic choke-holds…

Iron Maiden-yeah he did the inking also

“Byrne sure makes a lot of money using characters not belonging to him. He’s a vampire. Why doesn’t he create something of his own?”

I’d blame the guy who doesn’t want a commission of “Next Men” on that one. Byrne’s not publishing it, he’s not claiming the characters are “his”, its a private business transaction- even the guy who commissioned it isn’t making any money from showing it here. Whatever else you want to damn Byrne about, no harm no foul here.

And who’s to say the dude that comissioned it didn’t ask Byrne to be autoerotically asphyxiating WW?

Hey, at least he’s not calling her fat or tearing up over the massive amount of destruction, right? ; )

Thanks Rob. You know, the other Marvel great I wish I had the money to get a commission from is Gene Colan. Still going strong at 82.

John Trumbull

July 30, 2009 at 2:22 pm

Terrific piece! The only thing I dislike is all the texture marks on Doom’s cloak. Makes it look like terrycloth to me.

It’d be neat to see Byrne do Darkseid vs. The Avengers as a companion piece.

I might not ever understand the nerd-hard-on (nard-on?) some folks have for Doom. Just another fascist dictator . . .sure, he’s had some cool moments, but who doesn’t hand him his ass?

waiting for the Lex Luthor takes out the Marvel heroes. ;-]
This is a really nice piece tho’. back when Byrne was really good.
DFTBA

danjack

lower right corner the date is MMIX

Excellent piece of art but concept wise, total BS.

Superman would still be standing and he would be standing victorious.

I might not ever understand the nerd-hard-on (nard-on?) some folks have for Doom. Just another fascist dictator . . .sure, he’s had some cool moments, but who doesn’t hand him his ass?

Galactus, the Beyonder….

FFS, sometimes the semantic dickery around here is unbelievable. Let’s rephrase the question, then, shall we?

How many times has Doom had his ass handed to him by the Fantastic Four, et al?

And none of this “It was a Doombot!” nonsense. That bird don’t fly.

I’m with you on this one, Joe Rice. Doom: Do not get.

I’d commision a G’Nort destroys MarvelU, with Wolverine bowing to his superior intellect. I’m just sayin’.

I’d commission the real cool ones at a bar, and I would hand select what each of them drank. That’s just me.

LouReedRichards

July 30, 2009 at 8:49 pm

Actually I think Mark Andrew nailed it, where was the “semantic dickery”?
This is a guy who has taken on Galactus, the Beyonder and Mephisto and has triumphed (at least for a while).

So yeah, he’s been beaten by just about every hero Marvel has ever published, but isn’t that kind of the purpose of the bad guy? Last time I checked every other major baddie has had their ass handed to them repeatedly too. Superman and Batman (well sort of) are still walking around, so I assume that the Joker and Lex probably failed in the last attempts to destroy their hated foes as well.

Doom was also the first villain (that I can think of anyway) to ever really be portrayed with real depth and tragedy. I’m not saying there weren’t all sorts of great villains before him, but I think he set the standard for the super villians that followed. For a long time he cast a very ominous shadow over the entire Marvel Universe. It was pretty much a heroes rite of passage to go up against Dr. Doom.

Simply put, Dr. Doom is the patriarchal villian of the Marvel Universe.

Latveria, the science and sorcery combo, that cool ass armor,the whole bit about his mothers soul being in hell… great stuff.

BTW: yeah, the whole “Doombot” thing does get irritating, on that we can agree.

And yes I did have a “nard-on” while typing this… :)
Now where did I put my reprint of FF annual #2?

I dunno. I’m not big into characters’ power levels, but whenever I read Doom beating some cosmic force I just kind of thought, “Aw, horsecrap.” There’s a certain section of readership, fandom, I should say maybe, that just flips out at the idea of anyone defeating Doom, when, like, everyone does.

Doesn’t Superman have another Achilles heel with magic? Doom has progressed in his studies to the point where Doctor Strange thinks he knows more than he does. Doom could take him down with a spell or two.

That I could actually see. But, man, the rest of them gonna eff him up, especially Batman! It gonna be HARD.

“Doom was also the first villain (that I can think of anyway) to ever really be portrayed with real depth and tragedy. ”

God, I hope you’re just talking about superhero comics here.

And y’know what? Doom may have had some good character work done on him, and he’s certainly impressive and imposing, but at the end of it, he’s a megalomaniac who blames his mistakes on others and is incapable of honest self-reflection.. And that’s not even getting into the fascism.

Which is one of the reasons I like “Unthinkable” so much: Reed beats Doom by doing the one thing Doom never could, the one thing that’s truly unthinkable for him: accept his own limitations. Because only someone who accepts his limitations can overcome them. Reed, aside from not being bugfuck crazy and evil (which Doom is), is capable of growing as a person, and that’s why he wins.

LouReedRichards

July 30, 2009 at 10:42 pm

“God, I hope you’re just talking about superhero comics here.”

Oh yeah just superhero comics, not relating that to anything else.

Yeah, it would be hard to do the reverse with a DC villain and Marvel heroes. I agree the only DC villain who could pull it off and have it be believable is Darkseid, and that’s only because at heart he’s really a Marvel villain in the DC Universe, being created in the Kirby style after all.

“And y’know what? Doom may have had some good character work done on him, and he’s certainly impressive and imposing, but at the end of it, he’s a megalomaniac who blames his mistakes on others and is incapable of honest self-reflection.. And that’s not even getting into the fascism”

A lot of writers these days just use Doom as the big bad and really don’t add much to the character. But long before Claremont took Magneto into different direction, there was a time when a few Marvel writers were doing some real character development with Doom. This started late in the Lee/Kirby FF run, when he made his first on panel “kill” of his assistant Hauptmann in FF#87. He broke of the attack with the FF and just told them they could leave. It was like he knew he crossed a line there. Up to that point, I don’t think there were many cases of the villain actually killing someone in those more innocent times. Right around that same time, Marvel gave him a solo shot in Marvel Superheroes and there were a few Gerry Conway written stories in Astonishing Tales and Sub-Mariner where he does think about the choices he has made.
Of course, Gerry Conway’s story in Astonishing Tales #8 inspiried Roger Stern’s graphic novel about the efforts to go up against Mephisto to win back his mother’s soul.

The problem with Doom is that Marvel has used him in such a large varieity of titles, far more than his rival in villaniy Magneto, that the character has gotten diluted over the years. BTW, Doom didn’t always blame Reed for the accident either. You will never see that in the Lee/Kirby stuff. In the FF annual, he clearly knows he did it to himself. Many years later, I think it was in the Marv Wolfman story in FF #200 is where he starts to rant about Reed sabotaging him.

Count me among those who don’t understand the “nerd hard-on” for Doom. He’s a great character and all, but geez. On the other hand, I also don’t understand the similarly excessive zeal for Batman, either. If this had been my commission, I would have insisted on Batman being in the strangle-hold, not Wonder Woman. And I would have shelled out the extra bucks for a “sequel” scene with the Heckler or Ambush Bug kicking Doom in the ass, literally…
But back to the actual piece – I copy-pasted the expanded version just to examine it more thoroughly. It is truly fantastic – it’ll probably be the wallpaper on my computer screen for the next few days.

Let’s face facts:

The REAL problem with Doom is that he wears that tragic-ass green skirt-and-hoodie combo. Bitch needs a stylist, stat.

(Sorry for the double-post…don’t hate!)

That being said, this is the best John Byrne piece I’ve seen in quite some time. Now if he could just keep his mouth shut…

[...] Should Be Good has a John Byrne commission showing Doctor Doom defeating various DC heroes including Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern and [...]

“but at the end of it, he’s a megalomaniac who blames his mistakes on others and is incapable of honest self-reflection.. And that’s not even getting into the fascism”

That’s exactly what makes him so good — he’s a good bad guy, he does all the best kind of bad guy things: ego-centric, pompous, audacious, always self-righteous, always twisting things around so he can see himself as better, best. He’s hateful and capable, and rules a country (small, but a real one). I like that abt Lex Luthor, too — maybe even a bit more, since Lex does all that explicitly without the “fantasy” powers, but Doom also has such an imperious presence, it just adds another level of eeeevil. Plus, he calls himself Doctor– sure, it’s for the aliteration, but damn it sounds good (bad). I like namor for the same dickery; he’s such a pompous bastard it’s entertaining (even with his actual nobility shining through a bit)

I have posted to the Byrne website, and he and I have had significant disagreements there. I think his attitude toward comics is a little too rooted in the the way things were during his professional heyday (for my taste), he’ll stick to his guns beyond the point of rational argument, and he’s certainly bitter (rightly or not) about the path the industry has taken and the way it’s treated him.

I say all of this by way of mitigating any thought that I’m a Byrne apologist. That said, I have two comments related to the artist, and this commission:

1. What true artist worth his salt in any medium doesn’t conform to the description “his attitudes toward [whatever] are a little too rooted in the way things were during his professional heyday… he’ll stick to his guns beyond the point of rational argument, and he’s certainly bitter (rightly or not) about the path the industry has taken and the way it’s treated him.”? The expectation that a committed and sometimes brilliant artist will be your congenial guy-next-door buddy is your problem, not his.

2. The above commission is in the upper tier of his work for hire, but it’s (IMO) not even remotely his best. By which I mean, 90% of the time his new stuff is better, by an order of magnitude.

Fact of life: if we judged artists based on their attitudes, their politics, and the (often false) public interpretations of “who they are”, there would be very little art to appreciate.

Good points yet I don’t think the majority of people here are doing that Coffee. Most of what I’m reading here takes Byrne as an artist, not a person (and a very good, very appreciated artist at that). CBR has about eleventeen other threads that take Byrne to task for his various and sundry idiosyncracies, this isn’t one of them save for a snippy comment here and there, easily defused considering its not the point of the thread.

For me, its one of the stronger pieces I’ve seen by him in a long time. Byrne in his heyday was always my favorite artist to portray Dr. Doom, and the artist that made me a lifelong Doom fan.

Yep, I’m one of those Doom fans, though not so much one who is going to say “Doom beats everybody”- he clearly doesn’t, and clearly can’t, otherwise you won’t have any superhero comics (though he might have created ‘prep time’ circa Secret Wars 9…).

I will hold up Doom 2099 as one of the best spotlights on how strong the character is, that he can have his own series, play the villain AND the hero- that’s one of the things I love about the character. He might lose due to his ego or overconfidence (Terrax, Reed), he might walk away from a decisive win because it doesn’t hold up to his stringent definitions of victory (Emperor Doom, Super Villain Team Up), or he might pull off the most beautiful win you’ve ever seen (Triumph & Torment) but whatever he does, its sure interesting as hell, always has costs, and even when its a loss, its great to see how he can extricate himself from it and put the egotistical spin turning it into a ‘victory delayed’.

I also like seeing a villain that elevates himself to take on the likes of the FF, Galactus, so on, so forth- through his technological prowess, not through some accident or quirk of fate that just ‘gave’ him powers- he’s a villainous Batman (or of course, Iron Man)- but his moral compass points South rather than North. Yes, he’s using magic more often, but its not like it wasn’t a part of his character, those moments have always been written well and with a rationale why he would eschew science, and frankly when you have Sentry and Ares on your doorstep, its time to think out of the box.

So in summation… doom gud. We all have our favorites.

I really have a hard time coming up with who DC would use to show them taking out the Marvel heros.

That is the big difference between DC and Marvel. At DC, the good guys are on an epic scale, while at Marvel it is the bad guys. There are exceptions, but that is the general rule.

Black Adam is the closest DC gets to Doom – the fury, the arrogance (pride? hubris?), the contempt for life that he considers beneath him, all backed by divine power levels.

Him, or Dr Light…….

Vincent Paul Bartilucci

August 1, 2009 at 12:15 pm

Enjoy your victory while you can, Doom. You’re about to face the most dangerous man in ANY universe.

God, I’m such a Bat-geek! :-)

ParanoidObsessive

August 1, 2009 at 2:16 pm

“Doctor Doom has a time machine. I’m pretty sure that’s enough advantage for him.”

I’ve said for years the only real way to “beat” Batman (short of just killing him) is to travel back in time and stop his parents from getting killed. And thus, through an act of singular good, you open the door to far greater evil.

Plus, it creates tons of interesting drama, in the sense that, if other heroes travel back in time to stop you, they have to come to moral terms with the fact that they are essentially killing two innocent people (or semantically, allowing them to die), so if you’re dealing with a hero who isn’t “grey”, they can be all conflicted about it.

You know, now that I spell all that out, has anyone ever actually done a story like that? It seems like a no-brainer, but I’ve never heard of one. Then again, I’m not as familiar with a lot of DC stuff.

Good point regarding Black Adam, Dante – his current characterization is cut from similar cloth.

That is a fabulous commission – if Byrne made that or something similar into posters, I could totally see that selling quite well.

I object to calling Doom a fascist — not because it devalues Doom, but because it requires that the word “fascist” mean little more than “non-Leftist totalitarianism.” Fascism involves romantic nationalism, corporatism, and a theory of history as an endless struggle pitting the vital and strong against the decadent and weak.

There’s not much of that in any comic-book character, really; even most comic-book Nazis aren’t written as fascists in any meaningful use of the term, paradoxically enough.

That piece was actually commissioned and purchased by George Stasky, the owner of Brave New Worlds in Willow Grove, PA. He suggested the idea and still owns it.

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