Comic Book Resources

For all the talk of politics in The Ultimates, it really just amounted to: This is how the Bush administration might use Superheroes. Which is a fair premise with some potential, and is there on the page, but it doesn’t really go into anything deeper than just that statement. “He’d use them as military. Explosions ensue”. Beyond that basic premise, like you said, it’s an action movie.

The likability of these characters was actually a big deal for me when I read both volumes.
I almost dropped the series right at the beginning because of how cynical and self absorbed they were. ( Captain America in particular is just a huge asshole) Of course this was before I realised that all of Mark Millar’s characters act like this.

Still, just like you I really, really like this book. The pros more than outweigh the cons

…So, am I the only one who doesn’t find Ultimate Cap unlikable? I actually find him to be the most sympathetic of all the core cast. While his meeting with the senior citizen Bucky in volume one is bittersweet, the fact that he hasn’t been able to integrate into society by volume two, and still only socializes with Buck and his fellow Ultimates, is both pathetic and tragic.

It really does explain why he acts like such a “thug”, as some say: he still understands combat. It’s the only constant between his old life and his new one, and when faced with uncomfortable situations, that’s the mindset he reverts to.

the problem with ultimate cap is that he is too much of a caricature of a perceived 50′s version of Cap, and lacks any real positive qualities. They push the soldier angle, while ignoring the idealist angle almost entirely. Most of Millars characters are simplistic limited dimensional actors, and as Chad writes the most developed characters are the ones that we shouldn’t like.

mind you, the Ultimate Cap is fun to ‘watch’ in the same way Transporter, Jet Li or Arnold are fun to watch, they are clearly the protaganist and make wonderful action sequences that you can root for, but when it comes to depth of character there is major lack of development.

It’s funny, there’s a recap review of this same book over on Newsarama. Synchronicity I guess, although that one DOES focus more on the positives than the negatives.

Well, of course Ultimate Cap is a caricature; they’re all caricatures, because it’s an action movie in comic form, and most (if not all) action movie characters are either caricatures or easily-recognizable character archetypes. The genre itself is antithetical to deep characterization.

You’re not alone, Ellis. My perspective on Ultimate Cap is that he’s still the American ideal, just that he’s the American ideal of the 1940′s, as opposed to the secular humanist idealist the Classic Cap has been portrayed as. He was raised in an environment before the civil rights movement of the 60′s; of course he’s going to come off as less tolerant than those of us who live in a time when colored people and white people can share water fountains and homosexuals can ( to some extent, at least ) discuss their sexual orientation in public.

As for Ultimates 2, I think it started out excellently but fell apart mid-way through the Liberators storyline at the end, when the slow, detailed plotting if the first half was shoved to the side in favor of monstrous splash pages and gratuitous violence.

stealthwise — I linked to Ambidextrous last week, but forgot this week. It is an odd coincidence, but with Ultimatum finishing and the relaunch of the line happening this past week, Marvel’s Ultimate stuff has been at the forefront recently.

One thing I forgot to mention: I do like how Mark Millar has Captain America jump/fall from a plane or helicopter in the first issue of all three volumes… as Ultimate Comics Avengers #1 showed us this week. Nice little in-joke for longtime readers.

I’d agree with pretty much everything here, Chad – good pointing out regarding Hitch. By and large, I think his ability to use photoreferencing without pulling a Greg Land trace-job is respected so much that the storytelling drawbacks sometimes get ignored (by me, right here, until you mentioned it and I went, “oh…huh, yeah.” On the other hand, with “The Authority,” there’s so much in there he simply COULDN’T photoreference that he had a much freer (really, spellcheck? Okay) hand in how to visually tell the story.

I always liked the Ultimate Cap, for precisely the reason that he’s not OUR Cap – he’s a reinterpretation that simply can’t be done in the mainstream Marvel universe, and it’s an interesting take. Is he an asshole? Ehh, a little bit. But, as someone above said, the only thing he DOES understand anymore is how to be “military.” in every other aspect of his life, he’s totally lost – and I find the moment when, on the run, the only thing he can think to do is go and see Bucky is damn near heartbreaking.

Maybe the only real “heartfelt” moment in the story, since Millar’s caricature style means there are so many misses. The Tony Stark denouement at the end actively pisses me off, since Millar actually HAD a chance to show that there’s more to Tony’s psychology than the loopy-playboy veneer, and then decided to kill it just for the sake of a cheap gag. And the Hank/Janet relationship really irritated me too (though, I suspect, that was the idea – you want Jan to become stronger, and you want Hank to just continue suffering, and neither of these things happen – but it feels like Millar making fun of an abusive relationship, rather than treating it seriously).

There are no real discussions here (about anything, actually… but more on that in a moment) about the role of superhumans in the 21st century, just a few talking points and lots of exploding. Which is fine, but let’s not kid ourselves here, okay?

Yeah, it’s not a discussion, until you notice it’s written by Mark Millar, which the way he writes, this is meant to be all about the politics!

(But as per last week, I think it’s really only the first arc that’s a direct response to 9/11, this one just flounders along making Iraq references).

Fury is in charge of the group, so why would he betray them?

Because of government orders for the group to go into Iraq.
He’s actually the one I thought it would be, as he made more sense to me.
He’s seeing his vision of a team getting corrupted and used for evil – which is basically the full force of Millar’s political commentary in this arc – and so is trying to stop it from happening.

* There’s a little bit of horror film logic for Fury: the hand he uses to hold Betty’s hand is the same one he loses (well, he loses the whole arm) later…

What really annoyed me is that in the commentary, the creators are all ‘you never saw that coming’ about Fury’s and Betty’s relationship.
Of course we didn’t – it isn’t alluded to, nor does it particularly make sense. It doesn’t not make sense – except for her requesting conjugal visits to her ex from her boyfriend, but there’s nothing there to say they were seeing each other.
I’d always assumed the hand holding was just a natural human reaction to ‘we are about to die’ – I’d probably hold anyone standing next to me’s hand if that was about to happen.

* The end, where the team makes the decision to become a traditional superhero team is interesting, giving the two stories a different overall arc than one would see the first time they read them.

It’s a bit odd as well – there’s not really a precedent in their world for it, AND, SHIELD owns them.
After all the government ‘we own you’ business, it’s a bit weird they get to go that easily, and that the public would be happy with that.

* The fight between the Hulk and Abomination is an utter disaster… we see the Abomination beating up the Hulk in a fairly dominant manner and then… it’s reversed? Always bugs me.

To be fair, most fights in this book seem that way to me. They look good, so you let it go.

I’m not a big fan of how Thor is handled in this story since I think Millar overdoes it on the Jesus imagery and language.

I liked his arc in the first half – he got put through the wringer a bit and it helped you feel the desperation of the character, and the dread that was mounting.
That said, it didn’t carry into the second half, but, I think I liked it.

For all those that wanted to see Pym get put through hell after hitting the Wasp, this issue does it.

I know it’s a superhero comic, so violence does beget violence which is a solution to it all, but if you’re going to deal with spouse abuse, I’m not sure beating up the offender should be shown as the solution to it.
It feels satisfying, but doesn’t do much else.

FGJ — Fury never seems too upset with the prospect of using the Ultimates internationally and, as Pym points out to Banner, seems to be moving the team in a more military, less idealistic direction with the membership.

The Pym issue in question is the Defenders issue, which doesn’t have Pym get beaten up, just humiliated and treated like a pariah by people who matter.

FGJ — Fury never seems too upset with the prospect of using the Ultimates internationally and, as Pym points out to Banner, seems to be moving the team in a more military, less idealistic direction with the membership.

Well he wouldn’t on the surface if he was planning to betray the team – having had more first hand experience in Ultimate X-Men, he seemed like he’d be more inclined to want to fight super powered threats than a war.
He’s the only one I could see generate the ‘I never expected you would betray the team’.
Everyone else I could see a few reasons for.

The Pym issue in question is the Defenders issue, which doesn’t have Pym get beaten up, just humiliated and treated like a pariah by people who matter.

I got mixed up and thought the Cap beating him scene was in this volume.

Gotta say though, I didn’t quite buy Fury not wanting his androids – he seems pretty morally gray on a few issues, but wouldn’t work with him due to spouse abuse.
I mean, screw people who beat their spouse, but a guy who’s willing to hide a mass murderer he used to work with to keep as a weapon seems like he’d take other weapons from a guy who beat his wife.

I always liked Brubaker’s response to the Cap of the 40s. He particularly referenced the anti France sentiment. Bru showed that Cap could be a hard as nails soldier without becoming an a-hole.

Maybe it’s really inconsistent characterization, but I really love Quicksilver’s face turn in Vol 2 when the invasion first happens. I did a little cheer when he said his bit about “Be strong, Wanda–We’re the only chance they have left.”

I thought it was a great take on Quicksilver’s character and a welcome change from the unrepentant selfish prick he’s usually portrayed as in 616 continuity. In addition, it showed us more depth in the dynamic between Quicksilver and his sister, namely that while, to outward appearances, she’s the easy-going one and he’s the tight-ass, when the chips are down, he’s the real rock of their relationship (although I guess we saw a bit of that in Vol 1 of Ultimates 2 as well).

Finally, I really loved that in Ultimates 2 we got to see that Quicksilver doesn’t do the heroic thing because it’s expected of him, he does it because it’s the right thing to do (saving Hawkeye from Hurricane, tearing apart the Crimson Dynamo’s mecha, saving the SHIELD staff). I almost get the impression that he’s actively avoiding the appearance of heroics. And best of all, he doesn’t ever comment on how amazed he was at heroic acts he just did (maybe Millar’s most understated hero ever?).

I’m a fan of Millar’s Quicksilver, can ya tell?

I had a flick through my hardcover of the second series last night – I do like the series – but came across another couple of things I can’t stand in nearly every single story Millar does – every hero jumping in to fight the bad guys.
Why can’t we see how The Ultimates take down the invasion, why have the X-Mn, Spiderman and Fantastic Four come in to save the day?
I’m sure it’s his way of going ‘look at how big this threat is’, and to try get that ‘Shit yeah’ moment where the audience apparently cheers in American cinemas (I hear filmmakers talk about it, and see it in films and tv shows, but have never once seen anything like it in a cinema… one guy did a slow clap during Attack OF The Clones after Yoda’s light-saber fight, but it was just to highlight how crap that was), but to me it just make the team look inefficient.

There’s also the stand around after the battle and talk about moments we didn’t see with each other ”Did you see The Thing? he was swinging around cars like they were toys and even cracking jokes!’ ‘Ha! You should’ve seen the Presidents face when Iron Man said this…’ – Yes, it was what people do after an event, but in a story, it’s way more interesting to show us these moments as they happen.

And upon reading the commentary, they talk about how the book is more intelligent than most and has layers… really guys? Layers?