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CSBG Archive

A Year of Cool Comic Book Moments – Day 239

Here is the latest cool comic book moment in our year-long look at one cool comic book moment a day (in no particular order whatsoever)! Here‘s the archive of the moments posted so far!

Today we look at Warren Ellis and Stuart Immonen’s amusing response to the whole Ultimate Captain America “Do you think this A stands for France?” thing…

In Nextwave #9, we got the following…

And then later, when the team is being attacked by a group of characters designed to be ersatz versions of the Avengers (from the pages of Not Brand Echh), we got the following…

Pretty funny stuff.

38 Comments

Ha!

Take that ersatz Cap!

Bwaha! In all honestly, this blog could be Nextwave end-to-end. Hell, it could be Aaron Stack end-to-end.

please do the captains speech about his superhero name for the first issue.

Now, THAT is how you make fun of something. Got that, Mark Millar?

Best,
Hunter (Pedro Bouça)

Yeah, total bitch slap to Mark Millar…awesome!!!

Mark Millar and Warren Ellis are probably on pretty friendly terms. I remember reading the introduction to the “Ministry of Space” collection that said something along the lines of “Read this instead of some lame Mark Millar book”

The intro was written by Mark Millar himself.

Man. I only read the first arc of nextwave, then stopped and later sold my copies. What was I thinking..?

The Crazed Spruce

August 28, 2009 at 6:00 am

I have got to get my hands on a copy of this comic….

loved how when cap says i am the predator your my prey she snaps and lets lose. that plus the argument of french candians hate her country is why next wave should have lasted longer

Nah, it was all concentrated goodness, and had the class and dignity to stop before it descended into mediocrity. Praise Nextwave!!

I sold my copies on eBay literally a few days ago. I’m really regretting it now…

One of my favorite bits from Nextwave was some conversation between Photon (formerly the female Captain Marvel) and one of the other female characters: they decided Captain America must be gay because he never hit on them. Just stunningly hilarious stuff.

Wow, that’s one big-ass belt!

When I read ZOMG I was sitting there getting ready to type a ‘what the hell does this mean’ question on here but then I moved onto the next panel and realized that was the appropriate reaction to have. It felt good being right, even if it was for only a few brief moments.
I don’t have these. These and All Star Superman I still need to pick up, though I do have a few random issues. Immonen’s drawing New Avengers now, isn’t he? I almost bought this last issue, which is something not even Chris Bachalo could convince me to do.

Here’s my take on this whole thing… we gotta remember Mark Millar is not American. I don’t think he was stating a personal belief or insulting the French himself, he was using a character named Captain America to accurately (IMO) state how many (not all) Americans looked at France post 911 (and during Cap’s time in WWII). I think his character Captain America was sold on the whole notion that ‘America is the best’ during WWII. The character arc Millar’s Captain America goes through, from that famous quote to being totally disillusioned with America today and realizing his country is not always right, is great.

And I think Ellis gets that. This isn’t a dig at Millar, it’s a dig at “freedom Fries” and all the fans that were saying how cool the whole scene was with Ultimate Cap and the “you think this A stands for France” line.

But that’s just my impression.

Awesome. More Nextwave.. MORE!

Indy24la- Your analysis was logical, well-stated, and pointed out how a line of dialogue was indicative of a greater character-arc.

In other words, about two layers deeper than Millar going “huh huh huh, cool,” which is how I picture him writing the “you think this A stand for France” scene.

Tom Fitzpatrick

August 28, 2009 at 7:10 am

DEATH to the fleshy ones!!!!!

Especially Mark Millar. ;-)

Nextwave doesn’t love you, it just wants all your money.

“Mark Millar licks goats”

“Here’s my take on this whole thing… we gotta remember Mark Millar is not American. I don’t think he was stating a personal belief or insulting the French himself, he was using a character named Captain America to accurately (IMO) state how many (not all) Americans looked at France post 911 (and during Cap’s time in WWII). I think his character Captain America was sold on the whole notion that ‘America is the best’ during WWII. The character arc Millar’s Captain America goes through, from that famous quote to being totally disillusioned with America today and realizing his country is not always right, is great.

And I think Ellis gets that. This isn’t a dig at Millar, it’s a dig at “freedom Fries” and all the fans that were saying how cool the whole scene was with Ultimate Cap and the “you think this A stands for France” line.

But that’s just my impression.”

I think you are 100% correct on Millar’s intent. However, yes, this was a man from 1940’s/50’s America. The “oh, the French suck!” sentiment hadn’t set in yet, and he was likely working with the French underground during his time in WWII. It just… just made no sense to me that a WWII vet who would have had to work that closely with European allies would ever fall for that kind of dig.

Yes, America, F%^& Yeah! and all that. Bu tthat France dig just seemed lazy.

I completely agree with you Indy24la, but also with you, Mike Loughlin, Millar’s constants efforts of improving his presuntuous coolness gets me on my nerves… thank God Warren Ellis and Stuart Immonen gave birth to Nextwave.

Also note that Ellis’ Captain Ersatz America doubles as a parody of Millar’s Captain Ersatz America from the Millar’s first story arc on The Authority (after he took over for Ellis) who was a “predator” upon his fallen enemies, and not just Millar’s Ultimate Captain America.

And yes, I agree with Entertainer, it’s highly unlikely that an American WWII vet like Cap would be so hostile towards the French unless he qualified his statement to refer to the Vichy Regime and collaborators. The FFL contributed troops and weapons to the Allied War effort .

have to agree with Entertainer13 about the flaws with what Miller did it was lazy, it was clearly from a point of view of a writer who had absolutely zero clue about American sensibilities from the 40’s and a distorted point of view of American ideas from the 2000’s. He took a democratic appointed, freedom fighter and made him into a jingoistic simpleton that makes guys like Glen Beck appeared to be almost sensible(ok, maybe not that far)

I almost posted exactly what Mike Loughlin said in the previous debate over the original Millar panel, but decided not to get involved. From what I’ve read of Millar’s work, I don’t think there are a whole lot of layers or subtlety to anything he writes.

Omar Karindu, with the power of SUPER-hypocrisy!

August 28, 2009 at 11:25 am

I’d remind everyone in this thread that the British love to tell Americans that they were hating the French before it became fashionable in the States.

Roquefort Raider

August 28, 2009 at 11:57 am

But do you have “I hate the French” vanilla ice cream in England?

Omar has a good point. This whole anti-French theme comes up in Millar’s writing a lot– even in the aforementioned Authority story I mentioned previously. An ersatz Nick Fury claims that the French are not civilized before he and his men attack Paris– and keep in mind that this was a book written before the George W. Bush era began and thus, before anti-French sentiment became popular in the U.S.

I never followed Millar’s work much, but his run on The Authority is the best I’ve read of him. It’s still bombastic, but there’s a greater awareness of real world politics and the short-comings of superhero fantasies than I have seen elsewhere in his output.

That entire series was one long cool comic book moment.

I always thought the “A doesn’t stand for France” line meant that he wasn’t going to quit and give up. It has nothing to do with hostility towards the French.

It just meant that he wasn’t going to lie down and roll-over like France does. No hostility at all. Really.

“It just meant that he wasn’t going to lie down and roll-over like France does.”

France doesn’t “lie down and roll-over” in wars. If it did, the USA wouldn’t even exist! Study a bit of History and come back here.

Best,
Hunter (Pedro Bouça)

Brian,
I’ve been curious since this sequence was first mentioned in reference to the possibly-iconic “A is for France” panel, so thanks for running it.

Actually, I think a snarky Captain America would have been more likely to say “You think this A stands for Italy?” when refusing to surrender. I used to hear people of his generation make that type of joke often enough.

“Ersatz Cap” = Charlie America

Man…
I miss Not Brand Echh…

But, I miss Nextwave even more…
Almost to the point that I wish they really were in my room and touching my stuff.

Ha ha! Good point Omar. As dear old Bill Shakespeare put it in Richard III:
“Let’s whip these straglers o’re the Seas againe,
Lash hence these ouer-weening Ragges of France,

If we be conquered, let men conquer vs,
And not these bastard Britaines, whom our Fathers
Haue in their owne Land beaten, bobb’d, and thump’d,
And on Record, left them the heires of shame.”

Although it’s worth bearing in mind that this is more an English stereotype than British (in Scotland we have the myth of the Auld Alliance against the English) and even then, cowardice isn’t the usual association.

I think it’s very true that men of Cap’s generation would make such jokes about Italians, rather than the French. The popular saying after the First World War was that the Italians would always rush to the aid of the victors.

Awesome. I liked Nextwave, it’s one of the few Ellis titles I really liked.

What a lot of the anti-French sentiment on the American right is fueled by a basic misunderstanding of how France fell to Germany. The surrender did not come lightly. Germany did not invade by way of the well defended French-German border but through the undefended French-Belgian border. France suffered major military losses. Also, before the U.S. entered WWII and was still neutral, FDR had secured promises from France and Britain to avoid aerial bombardment of civilian populations, but Germany refused to place such limits upon itself and would bomb cities into submission (a strategy they had already practiced in Poland and would then practice in Britain) so France was also experiencing heavy civilian losses as well.

Whatever fictitious timeline we’re talking about, the Captain America who served in WWII as a commando and special operations soldier, had he served in France, he would have worked with either the FFL (the army of the French government in exile) or the Maquis (any number of independent guerilla cells, mostly operating in the countryside.)

Most of the revelations of Vichy France’s collaboration with the Germans in perpetrating genocide only came out much later, during the time Cap was frozen– and it’s likely that would not be the main focus of how Cap would view France.

@Ian Thal: although details of the Vichy regime’s complicity in genocide only came out later, the fact that there was a Vichy regime fighting against the Allies (e.g., in Syria and north Africa) would have been well within the knowledge of 1940s US forces. Also the fact that the French Admirals had chosen to scuttle their fleet rather than join the Allies.

So Ultimate Cap, being a dick, would have recalled the French who did surrender to the Nazis/Chitauri (which the Italians, on their side at the beginning, missed the opportunity to do), whereas Vanilla Cap, being an all-American nice guy, recalls the Free French forces and the Resistance.

Another great comic book moment from Nextwave.
Honestly, there are bucketloads of them.
I got the Volume 2 HC as soon as i finished Volume 1.
I decided to try the book out on a whim (and i happen to like those Marvel Premiere HC’s) and i’m thoroughly glad i did so.

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