Comments on: A Year of Cool Comic Book Moments – Day 319 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/11/15/a-year-of-cool-comic-book-moments-day-319/ Comic Book Resources Presents... Comics Should Be Good! Fri, 10 Feb 2012 19:44:42 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: FuryOfFirestorm http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/11/15/a-year-of-cool-comic-book-moments-day-319/comment-page-1/#comment-762250 FuryOfFirestorm Sat, 02 Jan 2010 04:01:53 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=35308#comment-762250 But..but...those dolphins deserve it! They nuked Japan! FUCK-A YOU WHALES! FUCK-A YOU DOLPHINS! But..but…those dolphins deserve it! They nuked Japan! FUCK-A YOU WHALES! FUCK-A YOU DOLPHINS!

]]> By: wwk5d http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/11/15/a-year-of-cool-comic-book-moments-day-319/comment-page-1/#comment-752965 wwk5d Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:05:11 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=35308#comment-752965 Brought to you by PETA. Brought to you by PETA.

]]> By: DanCJ http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/11/15/a-year-of-cool-comic-book-moments-day-319/comment-page-1/#comment-752597 DanCJ Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:05:47 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=35308#comment-752597 <blockquote>Surely those that don't (which would seem to include all those where the male doesn't hang around afterwards, for a start) are only having sex because of an urge to do so. For fun, in other words.</blockquote> I've no idea whether they do it for fun or not, but that's a huge leap of logic.

Surely those that don’t (which would seem to include all those where the male doesn’t hang around afterwards, for a start) are only having sex because of an urge to do so. For fun, in other words.

I’ve no idea whether they do it for fun or not, but that’s a huge leap of logic.

]]> By: JasonF http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/11/15/a-year-of-cool-comic-book-moments-day-319/comment-page-1/#comment-752539 JasonF Wed, 18 Nov 2009 15:29:59 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=35308#comment-752539 They may even engage in homosexual foreplay...sinners! They may even engage in homosexual foreplay…sinners!

]]> By: Nick Evans http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/11/15/a-year-of-cool-comic-book-moments-day-319/comment-page-1/#comment-752534 Nick Evans Wed, 18 Nov 2009 14:49:06 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=35308#comment-752534 @Matt Ampersand. How many animals other than humans know that sex results in reproduction? Surely those that don't (which would seem to include all those where the male doesn't hang around afterwards, for a start) are only having sex because of an urge to do so. For fun, in other words. Interesting that foreplay and homosexuality are in the "dolphins are arseholes" list. @Matt Ampersand. How many animals other than humans know that sex results in reproduction? Surely those that don’t (which would seem to include all those where the male doesn’t hang around afterwards, for a start) are only having sex because of an urge to do so. For fun, in other words.

Interesting that foreplay and homosexuality are in the “dolphins are arseholes” list.

]]> By: BDaly http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/11/15/a-year-of-cool-comic-book-moments-day-319/comment-page-1/#comment-752501 BDaly Wed, 18 Nov 2009 13:30:54 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=35308#comment-752501 P. Boz: "Personally, I'm not sure why we should judge other cultures based on what they do. As long as they're not causing real ecological or human harm, why do we gotta get in their faces and call them wrong?" So if you encountered a culture where people kick dogs to death for fun, you'd think that was all fine and dandy? And why draw the line at human harm? The Athenians had sex with young boys, and older cultures practiced human sacrifice. Heck, even today, many cultures oppress women and severely constrict human rights. Why do we gotta get in their faces and call them wrong? Because they are. Drawing a line at your own species for when suffering starts to matter is as arbitrary as drawing it at your own race or sex. Suffering is suffering, and many sentient beings are as capable of experiencing suffering as humans are. I do believe that a human life is (in almost all cases) more valuable than an animal life, for reasons such as a greater awareness of life (and death) and greater potential. However, there are few dilemmas where one has to choose between an animal and a human life. Causing a sentient being to suffer and die for no reason other than your own enjoyment - and that includes culinary enjoyment - is wrong and immoral. Eventually, I believe (or at least hope) this will become as widely accepted as equal rights for women and the wrongness of slavery. And for those who argue that dolphins aren't wonderful all the time - of course they're not. They're animals, and don't have morals and ethics in the sense that human's do. But Morrison is simplifying a complex issue to make a moral point, something comics (and other fiction) have always done. I think he does it well. Great choice, Brian. P. Boz:
“Personally, I’m not sure why we should judge other cultures based on what they do. As long as they’re not causing real ecological or human harm, why do we gotta get in their faces and call them wrong?”

So if you encountered a culture where people kick dogs to death for fun, you’d think that was all fine and dandy?
And why draw the line at human harm? The Athenians had sex with young boys, and older cultures practiced human sacrifice. Heck, even today, many cultures oppress women and severely constrict human rights. Why do we gotta get in their faces and call them wrong? Because they are.
Drawing a line at your own species for when suffering starts to matter is as arbitrary as drawing it at your own race or sex. Suffering is suffering, and many sentient beings are as capable of experiencing suffering as humans are.
I do believe that a human life is (in almost all cases) more valuable than an animal life, for reasons such as a greater awareness of life (and death) and greater potential. However, there are few dilemmas where one has to choose between an animal and a human life.
Causing a sentient being to suffer and die for no reason other than your own enjoyment – and that includes culinary enjoyment – is wrong and immoral. Eventually, I believe (or at least hope) this will become as widely accepted as equal rights for women and the wrongness of slavery.

And for those who argue that dolphins aren’t wonderful all the time – of course they’re not. They’re animals, and don’t have morals and ethics in the sense that human’s do. But Morrison is simplifying a complex issue to make a moral point, something comics (and other fiction) have always done.

I think he does it well.

Great choice, Brian.

]]> By: Jim http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/11/15/a-year-of-cool-comic-book-moments-day-319/comment-page-1/#comment-752469 Jim Wed, 18 Nov 2009 06:34:32 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=35308#comment-752469 Yeah, he's right, you're missing the point in a way. You're right in saying the power of the story is whether or not you agree with him, but the dolphin's reason is right there on the page and you seem to be adding your own view to it's motivation. Naturally art is subjective to interpretation and Morrison's work can definitely be deconstructed different ways but right here his message is straight forward. I'm not saying I really agree with it either since like others already stated above, you have assholes in the animal kingdom too. So it doesn't really work for me completely but he still did some great writing on it and it's a great sentiment by the dolphin of a world without senseless pain . Also, when people kill animals out of anger or enjoyment and not for survival in some way, they are usually seen as somebody who will not hold human life in high regard either so I can't say I'd shed a tear for people who do things like this. Meanness like this is really just meanness. Also, people who are usually thought of as liberal can be just as militaristic or extreme as those on the conservative side, which is illustrated above too with Buddy. Yeah, he’s right, you’re missing the point in a way. You’re right in saying the power of the story is whether or not you agree with him, but the dolphin’s reason is right there on the page and you seem to be adding your own view to it’s motivation. Naturally art is subjective to interpretation and Morrison’s work can definitely be deconstructed different ways but right here his message is straight forward. I’m not saying I really agree with it either since like others already stated above, you have assholes in the animal kingdom too. So it doesn’t really work for me completely but he still did some great writing on it and it’s a great sentiment by the dolphin of a world without senseless pain . Also, when people kill animals out of anger or enjoyment and not for survival in some way, they are usually seen as somebody who will not hold human life in high regard either so I can’t say I’d shed a tear for people who do things like this. Meanness like this is really just meanness. Also, people who are usually thought of as liberal can be just as militaristic or extreme as those on the conservative side, which is illustrated above too with Buddy.

]]> By: David http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/11/15/a-year-of-cool-comic-book-moments-day-319/comment-page-1/#comment-752465 David Wed, 18 Nov 2009 06:02:24 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=35308#comment-752465 No idea why that says "anonymous" above. No idea why that says “anonymous” above.

]]> By: Anonymous http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/11/15/a-year-of-cool-comic-book-moments-day-319/comment-page-1/#comment-752464 Anonymous Wed, 18 Nov 2009 06:01:03 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=35308#comment-752464 Oh please don't try that one. I am criticizing what I did not like about the story, period. I can assail Morrison's political views because he wrote them into the story. He himself admitted as much in his last issue of Animal Man. The only thing I am "pissed off' at is you for writing something as amazingly off-center as "David, you're missing the point" And now you're trying to bait me with "Wow, that's hilarious". It's childish and pointless. Acting as a critic, I can address any element of the story that the author saw fit to include. Morrison included his political views. You bet, I disagree with them. Therefore I find the story weak and underwritten. I can judge the result by it's political views because that is how the author presented it. Do you get the point now? Oh please don’t try that one.
I am criticizing what I did not like about the story, period. I can assail Morrison’s political views because he wrote them into the story. He himself admitted as much in his last issue of Animal Man. The only thing I am “pissed off’ at is you for writing something as amazingly off-center as “David, you’re missing the point” And now you’re trying to bait me with “Wow, that’s hilarious”. It’s childish and pointless.
Acting as a critic, I can address any element of the story that the author saw fit to include. Morrison included his political views. You bet, I disagree with them. Therefore I find the story weak and underwritten. I can judge the result by it’s political views because that is how the author presented it. Do you get the point now?

]]> By: Rebis http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/11/15/a-year-of-cool-comic-book-moments-day-319/comment-page-1/#comment-752457 Rebis Wed, 18 Nov 2009 05:31:42 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=35308#comment-752457 Wow, that's hilarious. We know, David, because it's a STORY and the storytellers tell us why the dolphin does what s/he does. The dolphin's internal monologue makes it very clear. You're arguing about the abilities of dolphins in a comic book where amazing things happen all the time. Things like Buddy flying. You're just pissed off and criticizing everything because you're offended by (your perception of) Morrison's politics. Wow, that’s hilarious. We know, David, because it’s a STORY and the storytellers tell us why the dolphin does what s/he does. The dolphin’s internal monologue makes it very clear. You’re arguing about the abilities of dolphins in a comic book where amazing things happen all the time. Things like Buddy flying. You’re just pissed off and criticizing everything because you’re offended by (your perception of) Morrison’s politics.

]]> By: David http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/11/15/a-year-of-cool-comic-book-moments-day-319/comment-page-1/#comment-752436 David Wed, 18 Nov 2009 02:35:30 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=35308#comment-752436 Gawd I hate it when people say "You're missing the point", as though dissgreeing with them automatically equaled lack of insight. The "power" of the story depends on whether you AGREE with Morrison's idiotic blanket statements about Dolphins, or that the dolphin had some higher moral right to kill Ongur but chose not to out of some peace loving inner blah bah blah. I do not agree, therefore the story not only lacks power but is actually offensive. Buddy could not kill him for revenge, nothing had been done to Buddy. Painting, to borrow your vernacular, all dolphins with a humanistic brush is presumptuous and well, kind of stupid. Granting them human-like insight may be entirely wrong. Even if you allow for the possibility that the Dolphin in question had some actual reason for pushing the bastard back to shore, as opposed to simply acting on instinct, how would we know the reason wasn't fear of human retribution if he had not helped Ongur? Gawd I hate it when people say “You’re missing the point”, as though dissgreeing with them automatically equaled lack of insight.
The “power” of the story depends on whether you AGREE with Morrison’s idiotic blanket statements about Dolphins, or that the dolphin had some higher moral right to kill Ongur but chose not to out of some peace loving inner blah bah blah. I do not agree, therefore the story not only lacks power but is actually offensive. Buddy could not kill him for revenge, nothing had been done to Buddy. Painting, to borrow your vernacular, all dolphins with a humanistic brush is presumptuous and well, kind of stupid. Granting them human-like insight may be entirely wrong. Even if you allow for the possibility that the Dolphin in question had some actual reason for pushing the bastard back to shore, as opposed to simply acting on instinct, how would we know the reason wasn’t fear of human retribution if he had not helped Ongur?

]]> By: Rebis http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/11/15/a-year-of-cool-comic-book-moments-day-319/comment-page-1/#comment-752361 Rebis Tue, 17 Nov 2009 17:34:50 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=35308#comment-752361 David, you're missing the point when you assert, "Animal Man's kill is just fine with Morrison because he had a reason for it, and Ongur, see, had it coming so it's okay." The power of the story comes from the fact that Buddy/Animal Man, the protagonist and our titular hero, decides to kill the fisherman/butcher for mere revenge, but the dolphin that lost his/her family (the being that would have the truest motivation for revenge) instead practices forgiveness and saves his life. So I don't think Buddy's actions are OK with Morrison — in fact, Morrison makes a point to paint Buddy with the same savage brush. David, you’re missing the point when you assert, “Animal Man’s kill is just fine with Morrison because he had a reason for it, and Ongur, see, had it coming so it’s okay.” The power of the story comes from the fact that Buddy/Animal Man, the protagonist and our titular hero, decides to kill the fisherman/butcher for mere revenge, but the dolphin that lost his/her family (the being that would have the truest motivation for revenge) instead practices forgiveness and saves his life. So I don’t think Buddy’s actions are OK with Morrison — in fact, Morrison makes a point to paint Buddy with the same savage brush.

]]> By: Luke J. http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/11/15/a-year-of-cool-comic-book-moments-day-319/comment-page-1/#comment-752285 Luke J. Tue, 17 Nov 2009 08:22:39 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=35308#comment-752285 DanCJ: I just read Coyote Gospel earlier tonight (picked up the first Animal Man trade a few days ago.) What an awesome story. DanCJ: I just read Coyote Gospel earlier tonight (picked up the first Animal Man trade a few days ago.) What an awesome story.

]]> By: David http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/11/15/a-year-of-cool-comic-book-moments-day-319/comment-page-1/#comment-752233 David Tue, 17 Nov 2009 01:41:17 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=35308#comment-752233 Yeah I was a rabid fan of Morrison's back in the day, but this issue really pissed me off. "Our way is different"-Bull-hockey. Lumping all dolphins together as though they are all wonderful loving creatures. And Animal Man's "I lost my temper. I gave him to the fishes" Animal Man's kill is just fine with Morrison because he had a reason for it, and Ongur, see, had it coming so it's okay. Yes Ongur was an ass, and he ripped up that fish for no reason (that we agree with anyway), but you will never convince me that the life of a fish is worth that of a human, not even a complete jerk. Morrison revealed himself here as yet another pompous self-righteous crusader for animal rights who doesn't give a hang about human rights. Brilliant writer, usually, but he really shouldn't bring in his political views. Face it, superheroes are inherently militaristic and, well, conservative I suppose. The whole point of superheroes is that they enforce their views with shows of force. Generally we forgive them their excesses because they are almost always proven correct. Here, not so much. Yeah I was a rabid fan of Morrison’s back in the day, but this issue really pissed me off. “Our way is different”-Bull-hockey. Lumping all dolphins together as though they are all wonderful loving creatures. And Animal Man’s “I lost my temper. I gave him to the fishes” Animal Man’s kill is just fine with Morrison because he had a reason for it, and Ongur, see, had it coming so it’s okay. Yes Ongur was an ass, and he ripped up that fish for no reason (that we agree with anyway), but you will never convince me that the life of a fish is worth that of a human, not even a complete jerk.
Morrison revealed himself here as yet another pompous self-righteous crusader for animal rights who doesn’t give a hang about human rights. Brilliant writer, usually, but he really shouldn’t bring in his political views. Face it, superheroes are inherently militaristic and, well, conservative I suppose. The whole point of superheroes is that they enforce their views with shows of force. Generally we forgive them their excesses because they are almost always proven correct. Here, not so much.

]]> By: Dean http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/11/15/a-year-of-cool-comic-book-moments-day-319/comment-page-1/#comment-752214 Dean Mon, 16 Nov 2009 23:34:15 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=35308#comment-752214 And now for the dissenting opinion: http://drmcninja.com/page.php?pageNum=70&issue=14 And now for the dissenting opinion:

http://drmcninja.com/page.php?pageNum=70&issue=14

]]> By: P. Boz http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/11/15/a-year-of-cool-comic-book-moments-day-319/comment-page-1/#comment-752197 P. Boz Mon, 16 Nov 2009 21:28:56 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=35308#comment-752197 Yeah, this comic really sums up my girlfriend's feelings about dolphins: http://leasticoulddo.com/comic/20070130 Personally, I'm not sure why we should judge other cultures based on what they do. As long as they're not causing real ecological or human harm, why do we gotta get in their faces and call them wrong? Yeah, this comic really sums up my girlfriend’s feelings about dolphins:

http://leasticoulddo.com/comic/20070130

Personally, I’m not sure why we should judge other cultures based on what they do. As long as they’re not causing real ecological or human harm, why do we gotta get in their faces and call them wrong?

]]> By: Matt Ampersand http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/11/15/a-year-of-cool-comic-book-moments-day-319/comment-page-1/#comment-752192 Matt Ampersand Mon, 16 Nov 2009 21:18:49 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=35308#comment-752192 Yeah, the funny thing is that recent research shows that dolphins behavior includes foreplay, sex for fun rather than reproduction, rape, homosexuality, cross-species sex (including humping humans), and murder. Yes, they are cute, and yes they sometimes save people, but some of them are real assholes. Yeah, the funny thing is that recent research shows that dolphins behavior includes foreplay, sex for fun rather than reproduction, rape, homosexuality, cross-species sex (including humping humans), and murder.

Yes, they are cute, and yes they sometimes save people, but some of them are real assholes.

]]> By: Cass http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/11/15/a-year-of-cool-comic-book-moments-day-319/comment-page-1/#comment-752163 Cass Mon, 16 Nov 2009 20:19:16 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=35308#comment-752163 Animal Man might be my favorite comic book run of all time, but whenever it tried to branch out into real-world issues, I found myself wishing that it hadn't. Morrison's social commentary in Animal Man is always one-sided and preachy - the writer admits as much in his chat with Animal Man in Issue 26. The people who differ with Buddy on the issues are always either buffoons like his friend Roger, or else total miscreants, like the capital-V villain of this moment. "Ha ha ha, I will gore these cute baby dolphins and love every second of it!" As Calleeen pointed out, the plot could've been repurposed from an old episode of Captain Planet. Animal Man might be my favorite comic book run of all time, but whenever it tried to branch out into real-world issues, I found myself wishing that it hadn’t. Morrison’s social commentary in Animal Man is always one-sided and preachy – the writer admits as much in his chat with Animal Man in Issue 26. The people who differ with Buddy on the issues are always either buffoons like his friend Roger, or else total miscreants, like the capital-V villain of this moment. “Ha ha ha, I will gore these cute baby dolphins and love every second of it!” As Calleeen pointed out, the plot could’ve been repurposed from an old episode of Captain Planet.

]]> By: DanCJ http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/11/15/a-year-of-cool-comic-book-moments-day-319/comment-page-1/#comment-752147 DanCJ Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:30:30 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=35308#comment-752147 For me this is one of the weaker issues in one of the all time best runs in comics. It's still a good story, but it didn't stand out for me. The Coyote Gospel on the other hand... That's in the top five comics of all time for me. Oh and Richard J. Marcej - go and buy. All three of them. Now! For me this is one of the weaker issues in one of the all time best runs in comics. It’s still a good story, but it didn’t stand out for me.

The Coyote Gospel on the other hand… That’s in the top five comics of all time for me.

Oh and Richard J. Marcej – go and buy. All three of them. Now!

]]> By: Name http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/11/15/a-year-of-cool-comic-book-moments-day-319/comment-page-1/#comment-752129 Name Mon, 16 Nov 2009 17:59:43 +0000 http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/?p=35308#comment-752129 The punchline is that dolphins are jerks and one the few species that will thrill kill and rape each other. The punchline is that dolphins are jerks and one the few species that will thrill kill and rape each other.

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