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Wasn’t “Reborn” supposed to originally only be 5 issues and they added an extra one at some point? Admittedly that doesn’t mean they couldn’t push the one-shot back a month too, but I’m guessing that’s the origin of the problem.

I really don’t think it’s a big deal. It’s not like someone absolutely HAS to read it just because it came out today.

While Captain America coming back really isn’t that much of a spoiler, there must be something in this one shot that they need to get out of the way before Siege starts

Since the story of Reborn hasn’t been much more than an excuse for Bryan Hitch to draw big widescreen images, and what happens at the end was kind of a foregone conclusion from the title, I’m glad they’re just moving forward with the main story.

Has anybody been talking about Reborn since the first one came out? I thought it was over by now.

I thought that was ridiculous, too. I’m sure the fact that Reborn changed from 5 to 6 issues has something to do with it. I feel like the lateness of Reborn has taken away from both the story of Steve Rogers coming back, and from the momentum that the Captain America title had built up under Brubaker. Reborn has still been a well written story, but because the issues are so spread apart it feels more forgetable. Plus, most of the major reveals are being spoiled in other titles that are coming out on time. The whole thing has been pretty poorly handled.

Another publishing wonder from Marvel, the company that delayed AN ENTIRE CROSSOVER (Civil War) for a MONTH because the artist was late for one issue. Instead of, you know, hiring somebody else to do a one-issue fill-in. But nooo, the fans would never accept that, right? Better to KEEP THEM WAITING! Sheesh.

It is a really dumb publishing decision

I suspect the epilogue one-shot wasn’t delayed because otherwise it would’ve been made returnable due to lateness.

I really don’t think it’s a big deal. It’s not like someone absolutely HAS to read it just because it came out today.

Wait, is that the sound of…. common sense? Who let THIS guy in?

It’s common sense to ship books out of order?

At Marvel, whoever is supposed to be driving the car has passed out at the steering wheel and nobody has noticed.

I’m still waiting for the final issue of Marvels: Eye of the Camera. Seems like they just forgot about it.

The Who Will Wield The Shield one-shot not only spoils the entire Reborn miniseries on the recap page, but it also STARTS the recap page with “PLEASE NOTE: The following story takes place AFTER the events of Captain America: Reborn #6! Sorry, folks!”

Thanks, Marvel!

Really, the joke’s on them, for me. I didn’t bother reading Reborn once I discovered it was about the Deus Ex Machina Gun (TM) instead of being a well-thought-out story. I just wish the rest of Marvel’s fandom would stop buying comics they know they won’t like, rather than going “oh well” and shelling over their hard-earned money because they might be left out of some event or another…

All that aside, WWWTS was an excellent one-shot setting up the post-Reborn direction for Captain America. Judging by the recap page, the events of Reborn could’ve been told in far less than six issues.

Oh, and Truth? Eye of the Camera #6 is currently slated to ship in late January, according to Diamond Comics.

@Sijo, I think Marvel learned their lesson with Civil War. That’s why they didn’t decide to delay a few comics, possibly including SIEGE, just because Hitch was taking a while with REBORN.

@Craig, I don’t buy comics I know I’m not going to like. I just wish that if someone doesn’t like a specific comic that they stop assuming no one else likes it either.

i agree that anybody reading the Reborn mini doesn’t have to read the epilogue the same day they buy it, but it still reflects poor marketing from Marvel when they do something like this (they have done this before). It would be like watching a movie, and the last ten minutes of the movie is edited to be shown before the major climax that chronologically takes place before the ending of the movie you just saw.

Marvel really fucked retailers over on this one. How many people are gonna want to buy Cap Reborn #6 if they picked this up today? Expect lots of retailers complaining about stacks of unsold Reborn #6.

It would have been better if Bryan Hitch had a reduced role Reborn, doing design and layouts instead of full pencils. That way the comic would still benefit from the draw of his involvment, but the artwork could be done on time, and probably with more expression and vitality at that. Hitch’s figures have increasingly taken a back seat to his big set pieces.

I’m waiting to read it until Reborn #6, but peeking at the first page and seeing the “Sorry, folks!” completely blew my mind. In two words Marvel said as much as “Yeah, we know we’re screwing up with this . . . but you’re still buying it!” Not that it really matters with the spoilers as from the premise all along, not to mention Dark Avengers and Iron Man which completely gave the ending away anyhow. Just because it’s the end of the year and the last shipping week of the year does not mean you should drop the ball.

Why hire Hitch to do Reborn anyway? It’s a given that he’s gonna be late at some point. Plenty of other guys could have drawn it just as well. I like him but why’s the guy always take so long?

I went ahead and read it, and I think there is a good reason for them to want to at least have this part out before the big event starts. There is some non-obvious status quo that needed to be established, and this was the last ship week before Siege #1 comes out. I won’t go into the details.

It’s a decent issue, better than what we’ve seen from the Reborn series.

Has Reborn really been that late? I thought the first issue shipped in July.

It’s common sense to ship books out of order?

No, of course not. Clearly it’s a screwup …but screwups happen. There are about a million things that can go wrong at a production and shipping level, especially at this time of year, even if all the creative and editorial guys were right on schedule.

My point was simply that the other commenter’s right. There’s no law that says you MUST read it today, though doubtless everyone will. The thing that makes it a panic is that by and large, no fan is capable of waiting until the missing piece arrives.

Marvel really fucked retailers over on this one. How many people are gonna want to buy Cap Reborn #6 if they picked this up today? Expect lots of retailers complaining about stacks of unsold Reborn #6.

Someone who’s bought the first five issues of a miniseries isn’t going to buy the last issue just because he knows how it ends?

You don’t know many comic book fans, do you?

I don’t know what the numbers for Reborn have been like, but I’d be VERY surprised if the sales for #6 are out of line for the rest of the series by more than a couple percentage points.

Greg McElhatton said:

“I suspect the epilogue one-shot wasn’t delayed because otherwise it would’ve been made returnable due to lateness.”

THERE ARE no returnable books from Marvel. They don’t play that game, now that retailers can use Final Order Cutoff.

A couple of years ago there was a Wonder Man Limited series by Peter David. The store sold out of #4 before I got it (I don’t think they ordered many copies to begin with), so I had the guy order another one for me and I went ahead and bought #5 to be sure I didn’t miss it, too. I had it for about three weeks before I got #4 and I DID NOT READ IT UNTIL THEN.
See, it is possible to do that.

Hitch’s figures have increasingly taken a back seat to his big set pieces.

Absolutely. I just recently pulled out my old Authority trades and the JLA: Heaven’s Ladder book and I was surprised to be reminded of how much life and energy Hitch’s work used to have before Ultimates. Ever since he started on that book, his work has been more about spectacle and bombast and impressing with his drawing chops than actual storytelling.

Yes, it is possible to wait to read an issue (I’ve had to when my shop reordered comics for me as well). But, to get indignant over people pointing out the absurdity of publishing comics out of sequence is missing the point. Would a television network show episodes out of sequence and ruin the season final ?

I think it’s pretty simple: This doesn’t spoil the specifics of Rebirth #6 that much and it needed to come out before Siege. So they can release the last issue of Reborn a bit late, forcing readers to read it out of order, or they could delay their entire publishing plan for 2010 – the former seems the saner choice to me.

I’ve touched on this in a couple of other places, but just to go through it all once again:

We misestimated. When Ed and I first spoke about REBORN, we thought we’d be able to do it in five issues. So that’s how many we budgeted for, and thereafter we timed everything that was to follow, including SIEGE, from that point.

But by the time we got to issue #5, it became apparent that we needed more space. We needed an extra issue. Ed’s first draft of #5, which was to have been the conclusion, was rushed and cramped and unsatisfying. it didn’t work–we needed more space, and more pages than Hitch would have been able to produce for one issue on this timeframe.

So after looking at all of our options, and trying to take the long-term view of things as we did with CIVIL WAR earlier, we decided that it was better all around for the conclusion of REBORN to be good and take an extra issue, rather than trying to jam it all into the space we had. Butt hat meant that REBORN #6 was going to ship later than a bunch of the stuff that was supposed to come after it–the cost of doing business.

I know this is going to irritate a lot of people, but I hope not as many and not for as lasting an amount of time as a crappy conclusion would have. All I can really say to you is, “Sorry, folks.” (which was on the recap page to WIELD not as a jab of some sort, but as an honest admission that yes, we know this isn’t a great situation, we’re not blind or stupid, but we’re making what we think is the best choice. Sincelely, sorry for the inconvenience, best we could do.)

Also, anybody who thinks that we’ve spoiled everything about REBORN #6 is clearly underestimating this creative team. There’ll still be some things to hopefully shock, thrill, intrigue and tantalize you and your fellow readers–and to create some comic shop chatter when the issue ships. At least that’s the plan–we’ll see how this all winds up playing out, both in the short and long term. And it’ll still look just as lovely, and make for a beautiful collection when all is said and done.

One last point I feel obliged to make. REBORN isn’t spot-on on time, but it’s really close, especially when you stop and consider that every issue so far has been at bare minimum 28 pages of story and art, rather than our standard 22 (and for no increase in price.) We’ve put out five issues in six months–not a perfect monthly, but no the horrifying abomination of scheduling that people want to imagine this is. We’re not even as far off course as CIVIL WAR was. But because this is Hitch, and people still want to punish him for the lateness of ULTIMATES, the actual extent of the ship-drift is blown way out of proportion. And over those five issues, with the additional pages he drew, that’s like an additional issue’s worth of material he generated.

Look, the situation stinks. I’m no happier about it than anybody else. And I understand your frustrations with this, and fully expect this chatter not to die down, especially as we move into the early stages of SIEGE proper. We made a call. Time will tell if it was the right one.

Tom B

“every issue so far has been at bare minimum 28 pages of story and art, rather than our standard 22 (and for no increase in price.)”

You sure about that last part there?

I guess it means $3.99 is the standard for a 22 page comic, depending on the creative team. The FF is still $2.99 for example.

Wait….Steve Rogers is going to be Captain America again? I didn’t see that coming.

I’ve long felt that limited series should be fully written, and preferably penciled, in their entirety, before the first issue goes on sale. And on-going books should have a long lead time as well, at least six or seven issues, maybe more. Not only would that help prevent delays, but would also allow more time to find mistakes or plot holes in the story, and give them a chance to make adjustments. It would also help with continuity between different series if they could look at each other’s stories farther in advance.

“every issue so far has been at bare minimum 28 pages of story and art, rather than our standard 22 (and for no increase in price.) ”

I have to take issue with this statement. Reborn is taking the place of the regular Cap book which was $2.99, Reborn is $3.99. To me that’s a price increase. It’s 1/3 more price for about 1/3 more pages so I’m not really complaining (although I do wish comics were cheaper in general), but to say it’s not a price increase seems wrong.

djsweet said:
“Would a television network show episodes out of sequence and ruin the season final?”

Firefly.

Tom B: It’s not that big a deal to me. Keep putting out good books & I’ll keep buying.

thx Tom for coming on and explaining… I bought it and am holding off on reading it…unfortunately I did pick up and read the New Avengers Annual which ruined it for me a la Countdown with Kyle Rayner….

But it is Ed Brubaker and Butch Guice, 2 solid pros…you knew they would have the book in on time and that isn’t appreciated much anymore compared to “fantastic” artists who can’t make deadlines….

This comment has nothing to do with Reborn but does go to the late publishing of series (mini series in particular). I also have always felt that a mini series should be almost entirely done before it is solicited. And on that note I would like to know when the next issue of “The Twelve” will be released.

Thanks for the explanation, Tom.

I seriously did look a few places first to see if they had the story on why the book was late (including checking out your blog to see if you had a bit on it), but I didn’t see it, so thanks for coming here to explain it, too.

No, of course not. Clearly it’s a screwup …but screwups happen. There are about a million things that can go wrong at a production and shipping level, especially at this time of year, even if all the creative and editorial guys were right on schedule.

My point was simply that the other commenter’s right. There’s no law that says you MUST read it today, though doubtless everyone will. The thing that makes it a panic is that by and large, no fan is capable of waiting until the missing piece arrives.

Oh yeah, totally agreed.

“We’ve put out five issues in six months”

Uh, good job?

I just wish they hadnt put Hitch on the book in the first place. The art on the regular Cap book has been fantastic since Day One, and those artists should have been allowed to draw this book. Cap coming back would of sold regardless of Hitch being attatched.

So tradewaiters win again? I’m still on the last volume of Captain America, and while I don’t get the story updated right now, at least I will be able to read everything in order, as a complete whole.

So tradewaiters win again?

When do they not? Story presentation, economics, home storage… each of those are pretty hefty arguments in favor of waiting. Against that you only have "might not be collected" — fat chance, in this case — and "missing the fun of the serialized experience," which has already been somewhat derailed here but is at best a transitory thing even in the best-case scenario.

You’d think after all these years in the business, Brevoort and Brubaker would know how to pace a series by now.

I’m glad this is coming out early.

I haven’t liked Reborn at all… don’t like the concept or the execution. 5 issues was too many as it was.
And it should have taken place within the regular Cap series.

As should have this one-shot.

b/c it’s Cap and Brubaker, I’m still stuck buying Reborn, but I couldn’t care less about it.

I would have gotten out of Cap completely if Brubaker’s run up to this point hadn’t been freaking incredible.

Of course you don’t have to read this issue today just because it came out. That’s a stupid argument. No one said they had to. That doesn’t mean releasing this before Reborn #6 wasn’t a bad move by Marvel. If you’re reading a book and chapter 8 is followed by chapter 10, and then chapter 9 is after that, you don’t have to read chapter 10 first. You can flip past it and read it in the right order. But that doesn’t make printing chapters out of order ok or a good idea.

I agree that mini’s should be 100% done before they’re released. But in this instance, this isn;t so much a mini as a marketing ploy, since it’s replacing the regular Captain America title while it runs so they can charge an extra buck an issue like they do with all their mini series. And since it apparently ties in so heavily with the rest of the Marvel U, I doubt they would have been able to hold off on it until it was totally in the can.

This just makes me think of a vow I just made to myself. I’m gonna try and spend an entire year not looking at early solicits. I’m trying to find out if I enjoyed comics a lot more when I was younger because every issue was a surprise. For the last few years I’ve been reading solicits and quite frankly I haven’t really enjoyed my comics much. I think it’s because I know what’s coming. I always feel that issues don’t give you enough, but maybe that’s because I know that what’s supposed to happen six months from now and I feel every issue before it is just filler until it happens. I haven’t been surprised by a plot point in so long.

TNT138 — I quit reading all DC and Marvel solicits and previews a long time ago. I agree with your sentiments, and hope you find, as I did, that too much-too soon does indeed take the fun away.

IMHO, that would only work for me if single issues started to get blurbs on the back like every other entertainment media.

“We’ve put out five issues in six months–not a perfect monthly, but no the horrifying abomination of scheduling that people want to imagine this is. We’re not even as far off course as CIVIL WAR was. But because this is Hitch, and people still want to punish him for the lateness of ULTIMATES, the actual extent of the ship-drift is blown way out of proportion. And over those five issues, with the additional pages he drew, that’s like an additional issue’s worth of material he generated”

I think you’re kindof missing the big issue a lot of people have here. I don’t care about delays, and indeed Hitch has basically done more than monthly once you add it up page by page. The problem is that you timed the end of Reborn so tightly to the start of Siege that what basically amounts to a small delay has screwed up the scheduling to such a degree that a much hyped mini that got a lot of press both in and out of comic circles isn’t coming out in order.

I mean, it’s meant to go 1-6, Wield, Cap appearences, Siege, it went more like 1-4, Cap appearences, 5, Wield, Siege, 6.

I know us fans can get whiny about minor delays and the like, but please don’t dismiss this in the same way. Reborn and Siege were scheduled so close together that forget art speed or adding issues, a mild case of the flu or computer troubles could have caused this. If Siege had been planned for the last week of January or the first in Feb, this probably would have been avoided. A three or four week extra saferty cushion.

Look, I am a Bryan Hitch fan going back to at least the days when he was aping Alan Davis. I’m also a trade reader so the delays don’t usually affect my reading enjoyment.

All that said I found Breevort’s offense of fan’s rightful complaints about the timeliness of Hitch’s work to be ridiculous. First of all Tom and Bryan are both in the monthly business. Not the graphic novel or trade paperback business. If Hitch doesn’t want to work in the monthly business he doesn’t have to. There are alternatives. Plenty of working artists in the comic industry don’t work on monthlies.

Second, Tom scolds us for continuing to hold Ultimates against him, and blowing his deadline problems out of proportion. But the deadline problems did not begin with The Ultimates it began with JLA a decade ago. Continued into the Ultimates and then Fantastic Four and currently Reborn. It is not a two time occurrence. It is every project he has worked on for a decade. Every single one.

All that said… regardless of the online criticism of the story and my rant about Bryan Hitch’s 10 year tardiness problem I am excited for when I get my Reborn trade, and I am happy it will feature all Hitch art. Maybe going forward though he should look into something with arcs like Batman and Robin, Amazing Spider-Man, or Ultimate Avengers. Or not. It’s his life.

[...] the fact that Reborn has expanded from five issues to six and is now trailing behind other comics that show Steve Rogers happily walking around the Marvel Universe don’t help. Of course, to add to my complaints about Reborn, I think [...]

Reborn has been far too slow, this story could have easily been told in five books – I stopped reading after issue 2. Now I am glad I did. If Seige is as bad as Secret Invasion, where nothing happened and not one MAJOR character ended up being a skrull then I wont be making mine Marvel.

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