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A Really Open Letter to Mr. Warner Todd Huston

Dear Mr. Huston,

As I’m sure you are aware by now, the comics-reading population that resides on the internet has taken considerable umbrage with your recent opinions and behavior, and I number among them, hence the piece you now read. My intent with this letter is not to savage you, insult you, or rail against what you have written— that’s all been duly taken care of by other folks, many times over by now, and I don’t want to add any more bile to the proceedings, nor do I intend to raise your blood pressure any further. I do, however, wish to respond to several points you have made, points I feel may have been made with a lack of courtesy, misconceptions about the comic book medium, and considerable errors of judgment.

Firstly, I don’t want you to think we’re all ganging up on you; I’m acting of my own accord here. I write this because the blog entry you wrote in regards to Carla Hoffman’s piece at Robot 6 has caused me to form some strong opinions which demand I share them, just as yours seem to command you every day. I have never met nor corresponded with Carla Hoffman before, and it’s only through happenstance that the respective blogs we write for—she at Robot 6, and I at Comics Should Be Good—happen to be hosted by the same website, Comic Book Resources. I also find the initial brouhaha that arose from a background element of a single panel in a recent issue of Captain America to be laughable. We all have better things to worry about than a political furor accidentally created by a work of superhero fiction. No harm was meant, no harm was done, let’s all get over it and move on with our lives. As Stan Lee would say, “’Nuff said.”

Unfortunately, ‘nuff wasn’t said. We bloggers like to leap on things. I admit that some nefarious glee can be occasionally had by courting controversy; perhaps you have found this to be true, as well. Things have gotten out of hand, however, and more people have stepped into the ring, including myself. In so doing, I waive my right to the first tenet of journalism, because I am not a journalist; in fact, I’m barely a pundit. I am a blogger, one who makes no claims to professional status. I accept no pay for my writings; rather, I write about comics because I have a passion for comics, just as you have a passion for politics. Therefore, that tenet is right out the window—I will, however, gladly email you this missive ahead of time as a friendly two-minute warning, and I encourage you to send it to your spam folder if you so choose.

I also make no claims as to defending Carla Hoffman’s honor, as she is certainly capable of fighting her own battles. I do not, however, appreciate you insulting the woman simply because she dared to be cordial with you. You chose to find her post, in your words, “snarky and self-satisfied,” and responded in a brutish, unkind manner. As per your blog entry, you seem to regard Carla Hoffman as someone with a “warped mind,” a “self-deluded,” “uninformed” individual; you proceed to nitpick her choice of words, declaring “This poor young lady cannot tell reality from fiction, apparently.” You’ve outright declared her to be deranged and stupid, though all I see in her post is kindness—a kindness I fear you don’t deserve—and information. There is no reason to attack her.

Also, while you may be at odds with comic book readers right now, there is also no reason to attack the comic book medium itself. You claim familiarity with comics, having read them up until 1986—coincidentally, the year many historians believe comics made a great leap towards literary and artistic legitimacy. Nowadays, you’ll find comics spoken of in the same breath as what you call “real books,” those things without pictures. Comic books—or graphic novels, whichever you prefer—are now respected by teachers and librarians alike. I’m sure you know all this, however, because you know comics as well as you know the true character of those dastardly liberals.

For the sake of argument, though, I’ll continue. You say there’s nothing wrong with reading comics—great! I agree. You go on after that, though, contradicting that statement, calling comics “a childish, formulaic, lowest common denominator form of entertainment.” This statement is, by no means, universally false—comics like that do exist, just like bad television shows and films and books exist. Comic books, after all, are a storytelling medium, like any other, no better or worse than the rest of them. To say, however, that “they are nothing to be taken seriously,” or that they are “horrible even as graphic art,” disparages the medium as a whole. Comic books are not a “guilty pleasure”—they are a pleasure alone, and a healthy one, at that! You feel that shame is a necessary component of the comic reader—I refute this claim. I’ve been reading comic books since before I knew what the words in them meant. I have comics to thank for my reading comprehension skills, erudite nature, English degree, imagination, and passion for writing. My education would have greatly suffered were it not for comic books. To speak of comic books in toto as a trash medium denies comics their place in America’s great cultural heritage, and is no better than Frederic Wertham, who blamed comic books for society’s ills, rather than blame society itself. Comic books are capable of art just as much as a great novel or a film masterpiece. Would you deny Citizen Kane because of Joe Dirt, or Dostoyevsky because of Dan Brown? No, you would not, just like one must not deny Maus because of Wolverine.

You believe liberals to be idiots, and by now, you probably believe that I, too, am a liberal, and therefore, an idiot. Yes, I am registered Democrat, only because, upon turning 18, my staunch Republican father urged me to register so. I wanted to be an Independent. Politics is not my game; I find it distasteful, filled with bad humors on all sides. I can’t help but note an arrogant hypocrisy in your statements, however, that liberals are foolish because “they are sure they are smarter, more civilized, and more tolerant than those they hate and all this they assume while they name-call everyone that disagrees with them,” that “to be a liberal you must make assumptions of your enemy so that they fit neatly into your preconceived notions of the world and you must never try to ask them any questions to determine if they really do fit into the box you’ve constructed for them. You must assume you are more grown up than those you attack. You must assume that you are more intelligent.” Sir, you just described yourself.

In summation: with great power, there must also come great responsibility. Words hold great power; therefore, please exercise some responsibility. That maxim is derived from a comic book, though, and therefore you may disregard it. In that case, let me quote Samuel Johnson, as you have done at the bottom of your blog post: “The only end of writing is to enable the reader better to enjoy life, or better to endure it.”

You may or may not choose to respond to this letter, but if you do, I’m certain you will do so with the utmost civility as I have shown you. I would hate for us to fall to the level of those “venomous little whelps,” as you put it. That would be most unseemly.

Sincerely,
The Young Bill Reed

Now let’s go back to silly posts about comics, shall we?

218 Comments

I think Mr. Huston just needs a hug

I’m glad you mentioned how insulting he was towards Carla. Forget his opinion – it was just so rude, if he were my employee I might fire him.

That said, this jerk is getting too much attention.

PS – It’s funny – you (Bill Reed) and Carla write more intelligently then the person in question. And yet he’s supposed to be discussing serious things (politics), while both of you discuss comics, which ususaly don’t rise above good entertainment.

If only political pundits were as intelligent as comic book ones.

Wow Bill. Excellent post. Thank you for saying pretty much everything I was thinking, but saying it with an eloquence I couldn’t find (mine was coming out more “grrrr. rrrr!”).

Excellent post.

However, it’s all to naught, I feel. He will not in any way listen, and will recast your most gentle and reasoned criticisms into attacks and name-calling, as I found out in a series of e-mails to the man.

See for yourself:
http://alexjay.livejournal.com/90711.html
http://alexjay.livejournal.com/91204.html
http://alexjay.livejournal.com/91429.html
http://alexjay.livejournal.com/91744.html

WTH strikes me as a pompous blowhard goofball. I anticipate he’ll post over here at any minute and tell us how we wacky liberals are all supporting President Obama’s dastardly Muslim-Hippy-Socialist-Nazi plan to provide Americans with jobs and health care.

The thing is I’m not sure if this guy, Mr. Huston, even believes his own vitriol. In order to become a famous pundit you need to spew the most vile nonsense. Limbaugh or Olberman, Coulter or Moore, it doesn’t matter. Glen Beck didn’t become the household name he is now through the restraint he showed when he was on CNBC, he gained it by making ridiculous claims and acting up for the camera on Fox. Joe Scarborough was sacked from his late night show and given a moronic morning time talkshow probably because he didn’t get enough ratings despite NOT being a raging lunatic. Olberman on the other hand still has his show and only becomes more popular as he becomes more vitriolic.
I’m certain this fellow, Mr. Huston, has the same plan in trying to receive name recognition. And if he’s serious, well it’s equally depressing that someone would be so full of bile.

i must say, i respect a man with a strong opinion, and is very much willing to defend his right to say it, but i dare say, mr. huston’s response to ms. hoffman’s post seems a bit off.

they were talking about two different things. ms. hoffman, in my understanding, was talking about how the comic book industry has evolved into a respectable medium to tell a story, and how, as a medium, it is open to many a readers’ interpretations. mr. huston’s response, on the other hand, which is also from what i understand, came in the form of a journalism professor grading a blog post as an article for some big magazine. not even an editorial. his response, i feel, seems like a disconnect for me. it came to me as a an offensive attack article that, rather than talking about the core ideas and points furthered by ms. hoffman, decided to bash on what he assumes are the technicalities and the “impunity” of her article. i personally am uncomfortable with the way he responded to a credible argument from ms. hoffman. i believe a better, more respectful way to approach ms. hoffman’s points would be to talk about them. not to question her sanity or tell she’s ignorant or idiotic. they’re arguing on two different levels. i expected a better response from a man who approaches the conversation with an air of knowledge and maturity of a journalist with years of experience. sadly, it appears i expected too much.

i appreciate your voicing out of opinion, mr. reed. it seems to encapsulate the feelings many of the readers of cbr have. i only hope that if mr. huston responds, that he actually does so properly and participate in a dialogue with the same level of respect and intelligence as you did.

I read about half of Huston’s blog post and didn’t bother finishing it. He doesn’t rate responding to. He certainly doesn’t rate responding to politely.

Do what I would do: Just ignore him. Turn a deaf ear to him. (or in this case, a blind eye or hit your back browser).

Mr Huston has unfairly attacked comic book readers in general.
People have unfairly attacked conservatives and tea party protesters across these post for days.
Maybe this can be a lesson.
Blog unto others as you would like to be blogged

Right, Brianobox, because Tea Party protesters are very nice people who have never attacked or disrespected anyone:

http://evilslutopia.com/2009/04/tea-party-protest-signs-bad-worse-ugly.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/16/10-most-offensive-tea-par_n_187554.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/05/the-12-most-offensive-sig_n_347398.html

Maybe this can be a lesson: Treat people how you want to be treated yourself. And don’t whine when your vile insults lead to criticism of your methods.

Okay, I just read Warner Todd Huston’s piece. Seriously guys, overreact much? He didn’t seem very rude at all, or at least no ruder or snarkier than people were to him. Unless there’s more to this story than what I’m seeing, I think people are just mad at him because he’s taking them to task for being liberal.

Just kidding. He did go above and beyond where he needed to go in his response to Carla. I just couldn’t resist. :)

Okay, here’s my serious response. I think Warner went over the top in his response. I think Carla, even if I disagree with her on how “innocent” the mistake was in Captain America, was very polite to him. That being said, I do understand how people can get pushed into behaving like Warner, even if I do think it’s ultimately wrong and alienating behavior. When you are moderate or left-leaning like I suspect much of the comic reading audience is, at least frm reading blogs and message boards, you don’t really notice how left-leaning the books can be. So many things in your life are already left leaning that you just take it for granted as the normal state of the world. For a conservative, life is very different. Pro-liberal and anti-conservative rhethoric is thrown in your face regularly, in your comics, your talk show monologues, the stand up comedy you watch, dramas and sitcoms, the newspapers. I find it drives people two directions very often. THey just become numb to it all and learn to tolerate it except when it is extra egregious and insulting. Or they go the opposite way and snap and start becoming hyper sensitive to it and make stopping liberal bias into a personal crusade. I think Warner has fallen into the latter category.

While I do think he’s right about the liberal bias being pervasive and comics, and while I do believe that there is a good chance that this incident with Captain America may not be t as innocent as the powers that be claim, I think his hypersensitivity to the issue is just hurting his cause and making him come off bad. And causing him to see enemies where he doesn’t have to.

What I said above only applies to Warner’s response to Carla. That specifically was beyond what was necessary. His original piece bashing the Captain America comic on the other hand I believe was totally reasonable and made very good points.

Apparently trying his hand at sarcasm, Huston wrote:

“So, there you have it, America. Tea Party protesters just “hate the government,” they are racists, they are all white folks, they are angry, and they associate with secretive white supremacist groups that want to over throw the U.S. government.”

Well, yes, yes, yes, yes, and no.

I reject your Evening Tea and dump it into the internet from whence it came good sir. Agh! Nw m kebrd wn’t wrk

nice Job. glad to see you coming to the aid of your friend. for after all mr. huston like every one else has the right to his opinion but did not need to express it in such a mean and nasty way.even though that letter is sure to cause him to wind up coming back to defend himself in another view and proalby insulting manner

[...] points out previous appearances of politics in the pages of Captain America. Christopher Bird and Bill Reed, meanwhile, respond to political commentator Warner Todd [...]

Well said. You’re like a young Emile Zola (though I admit there are some substantial differences).

Well peeps, stop your bitchin’, new comics are out tomorrow, have to be in top form to whine about those! :P

T.- I’m not going to argue that there isn’t liberal bias in media (although there is a sizable conservative contingent), but I doubt Mr. Huston went so far over the top, insulting Ms. Hoffman and the entire comic-book reading population, because he was driven to rudeness by said bias. I read the entire piece, fighting my gag reflex the whole way, and couldn’t believe how much vitriol he spewed. Mr. Huston could have built up a well-reasoned response, refuting or arguing the claims made by Ms. Hoffman in a civilized manner. Instead, he told us to get out of our parents’ basements. If liberal bias can drive someone to act like that, I’m surprised I don’t run into screaming, defensive conservatives more often.

A very well-written piece, Bill, even if it is all for naught. Warner Todd Huston is already pulling the “LA-LA-LA I’M NOT LISTENING!” act now, as the end of his latest vitriolic blog would suggest. And besides, as was shown by his dishonest hatchet job on Carla Hoffman’s piece, you can write the most patient, civil, informed rebuttal imaginable, and still he’s going to demonise you, misrepresent you, and heap insults upon your head. Engaging with him in any way seems like a waste of time.

Here is what happened. In his first article, Warner Todd Huston misunderstood the context of the comic. He was then corrected, and had a chance to simply say, “Oh, right, my bad,” and move on. But instead he went the napalm route, blustering and screaming and attacking everyone under the sun in hopes of masking his original error. If anything, all he’s done is hurt his own position. His eager willingness to lie and deliberately misrepresent every response to his points casts doubts on the honesty and integrity of his original piece on Captain America #602. I fear Mr. Huston is a highly repugnant, egotistical individual. Note, I’m not saying “This shows how all Republicans are repugnant and egotistical.” Because unlike Mr. Huston, I’m not prone to such sweeping assumptions. I’m glad Bill noted the gaping irony in Huston starting his blog with “all Liberals make unfair preconceptions of the other side.” No, Huston’s imagery, bile-ridden, offensive actions reflect poorly on himself, as an individual, and though they serve to feed every negative right-wing stereotype out there, ultimately the fault lies with him, not every Conservative in America.

@T
good points
@Joe Mama
did I right something that struck a nerve

“Well said. You’re like a young Emile Zola (though I admit there are some substantial differences).”

Am I the only one who thought this said “You’re like a young Arnim Zola”?

Now that would be something.

Tom from West Chester

February 16, 2010 at 8:55 am

Well written reply, Bill, although in fairness, I didn’t read the blog post it was responding to or the Robot Six blog that inspired such an apparently vitriolic response to begin with. This Captain America “controversy” may be the least interesting thing I have ever read about. I just cannot get motivated to think that the original “mistake” mattered or that the furor over the mistake is worth responding to. I think I’m more concerned that I found the issue boring and uninteresting and that Captain America (including Reborn) has been running on fumes since issue 50 for me. (Except for Gene Colan’s art on 601. That was awesome.)

Tom from West Chester, the original “controversy” did little to interest me either. I commented a little on how overblown it was elsewhere, but it wasn’t something to get overly riled up about. What HAS prompted a desire for me to respond is instead Warner Todd Huston’s subsequent behaviour. First – and you really should read the Robot Six piece to see for yourself – how utterly offensive his response was to Carla Hoffman, the degrading, disrespectful way in which he treated her, which I for one would think any self-professed “professional” would be embarassed to admit to. Second, his final “parting shot” in which he makes ridiculous, insult-ridden sweeping assumptions about both Liberals (which doesn’t directly affect me, I’m not a Democrat or a Republican, not being American) and comic book readers (which of course DOES affect me). If Mr. Huston wanted credibility, he should have just shut up after his first diatribe – by which point some might have misconstrued his rantings as valid concerns. Instead, by continuing to press this issue he has exposed himself as a bully, a blowhard, and is on the way to becoming a bit of a laughing stock.

Tom from West Chester

February 16, 2010 at 9:35 am

Having still not read the pieces in question (which I will do so as to actually have an informed instead of a preliminary opinion on the matter), I think that those are valid concerns, JokerSoze. But to the extent that Mr. Huston’s response is as insulting, self-promoting, and inaccurate as has been alleged, isn’t the continued discussion and focus upon him here somewhat validating his opinion? Even if we disagree with him or his methods we are saying he is worthy of attention by devoting time to talking about him. As has been said above, either directly or indirectly, we are contributing to his, let’s call it for lack of a better word, success. If no one cares what he talks about and no one reads what he writes, does it matter what he says? I think the answer to me is sometimes it matters and should be condemned, and other times ignoring the blowhards and focusing on those willing to listen to opposing views is more constructive. I don’t know the answer here being unfamiliar with the individuals involved. I must say though that no matter how ill-informed or insulting this individual has been or how firey the sideshow has been, the underlying issue is one that I still cannot muster the energy to care about one way or the other.

“Also, while you may be at odds with comic book readers right now, there is also no reason to attack the comic book medium itself. You claim familiarity with comics, having read them up until 1986—coincidentally, the year many historians believe comics made a great leap towards literary and artistic legitimacy.”

I just found this funny. A conservative columnist with a mindset stuck on how things used to be in 1986? Wow… the mind boggles.

Omar Karindu, with the power of SUPER-hypocrisy!

February 16, 2010 at 11:01 am

It’s just…sad that we’re still talking about this. It’s a comic whose circulation is, like that of most superhero comics, quite small. Virtually no one barking about this controversy was reading the comic before, so I doubt a boycott’s going to materialize in any meaningful way. It plays into the criticism that “media” is liberally biased, but for numerous reasons it’s hard to see how a superhero comic book can be categorized alongside cable news networks or major newspapers except by a definition of “media” so vague that it’s almost useless except as a basic category of “stuff that exists.”

And in all honesty, a significant undertone to the media outrage seems to be that a character called “Captain America” owned by a private corporation should somehow be treated as a sacrosanct public symbol. There’s also the wider probem, I think, of the idea that the Tea Party movement is a particularly coherent one to begin with. I’m not calling Tea Party protestors incoherent, mind you; I’m just noting that the movement itself is ideologically unified only by being generically anti-tax/anti-spending.

As I asked below, can anyone really tell me what coherent policy solutions are coming from the united Tea Party movement? The speeches at the recent convention — which some Tea Party folks disowned anyway — didn’t do much in this vein, and street protests don’t do this either. The problem to my eyes is that there’s almost nothing specific one can say about the Tea Party movement that will apply to every part of said movement beyond noting that Tea Partiers are upset at possible tax increases and at further deficit spending.

What the Tea Party has yet to accomplish is the suggestion of concrete, hopefully long-term steps to fix this. Instead, it’s produced empty sloganeering about the Constitution as a minarchist document, an argument that sounds quite nice to the right ears but, again, doesn’t contain much in the way of details or pragmatic implementation. At most, it’s an argument against the passage of the health care bill and other pending legislation, but absent any address of the problems that got the ball rolling on such admittedly flawed legislation.

There’s something troublingly clownish and superficial about Marvel’s portrayal of the movement, the backlash to that portrayal, and, in a very different sense, the movement itself. Can you really deeply insult a movement that’s saying so very, very little in the end?

Comics have always had cartoonist who instill intellectual and artistic value in them. Often the scale has tipped in the other direction, but this has more to do with bottom lines, political pressure, social expectations and passive cartoonist just barely making it as it is. Thanks Bill for adding another reasoned voice to this century old argument that defends or vilifies one of Americas most important cultural heritages (whether you realize its place and influence or not). Huston has stepped into something that simply does not fit his narrative nor his expertise.

Adamantium Wholesaler

February 16, 2010 at 11:37 am

Great reply, Bill. It’s because of people like that that I switched parties…

Excellent post Bill.

I never heard of this Huston guy until last night, when I read this other blog that attacked him viciously. That blog quoted him far more extensively than you have, and judging by what I read there, he does appear very juvenile and mean-spirited. But the blogger I read was so intense in attacking him that he came across the same way. I actually left a reply defending Huston (sort of), because it always bothers me to see someone being attacked so ruthlessly for his opinions. I’m a little scared now of going back to see how they responded to my comments.
Anyway, I’m glad to see a more reasonable and mature criticism of him here. I really think this is the best way to respond to people like that.

@Omar Karindu, with the power of SUPER-hypocrisy!

I believe you make many valid points.

“Can you really deeply insult a movement that’s saying so very, very little in the end?”

I believe it’s more about insulting the individuals in the movement then the movement itself.

I’ve become convinced that this entire debate on Captain America #602 has morphed into “Blind men and an elephant.”
At the very least Emperor Warner Todd Huston wears no cloths.

@Brianobx: No. Why, did you make some of those signs I linked to?

There’s something troublingly clownish and superficial about Marvel’s portrayal of the movement, the backlash to that portrayal, and, in a very different sense, the movement itself. Can you really deeply insult a movement that’s saying so very, very little in the end?

I don’t think it’s SAYING very little at all. I think its opponents are HEARING very little, paying attention only to the parts they can oversimplify and ridicule.

Obama’s Healthcare plan is one of the biggest, boldest public spending initiatives ever and many of the complaints tea party members have against it and the future spending it may entail for taxpayers are hardly examples of “saying very very little.”

What the Tea Party has yet to accomplish is the suggestion of concrete, hopefully long-term steps to fix this.

Sure it does. Don’t pass Obamacare, stop throwing good money after bad.

While I agree that many individuals on the frontline of the tea party events are idiots, that goes for the frontline of any movement. Have you seen some of the brain dead conspiracy theorist stoners that were on the frontlines of many anti-Bush and anti-Iraq War rallies? A lot of them were the epitome in stoned slacker hippie stereotypes but it wouldn’t be fair to try to make them into the face of the movement any more than it would to make the dummies in the tea party crowd into the essence of the Tea Party movement.

Thanks Bill, you said it much better than I could have.

An excellent response to a guy who doesn’t really deserve one.

I generally agree with the points T made regarding the perception of leftist bias in many areas of entertainment and that this looks like a little more insulting than just an “honest mistake” as far as the Cap issue goes. But my God what a massive “fucking clown” WTH come’s across as.

I had to keep dodging his flying spittle as I read his post.

That “fucking clown” comment actually came from me originally. I said some pretty funny things in that comment section, I wish I could’ve gotten credit :(

Not really, I stopped thinking about this a bit ago. Did anyone read the latest issue of Conan? That dude is a beast.

Oops that last Anonymous was me, not that anybody cares, but I feel better…

Thanks for letting me use your clown line. The check is in the mail. :)

is there somewhere i could nominate this Warner guy for an Internet humor award, like maybe best satire blog post?

Joe Mama

I don’t have too. I don’t care about racist or rude people. I’ve seen plenty of ignorant people at Tea Party protests and lots of normal people,black and white old and young.
Along the same %’s as liberals in anti-bush/war protest. Some people are ignorant but that dosn’t negate the movement.

Omar Karindu, with the power of SUPER-hypocrisy!

February 16, 2010 at 1:52 pm

T., I’d say the Tea Party is opposed to the health care legislation — oddly dubbed “Obamacare” despite its being rather evidently a product of the Democratic House in the absence of much useful leadership or input from the White House — but that this opposition is not particularly coherent when you ask for details.

At no point did I call anyone int he movement an idiot. My point is that the movement taken as a whole is incoherent. Individuals or smaller groups within it almost certainly have specific points and plans, but the banner of the Tea Party isn’t amplifying those ideas so much as creating a loud, vaguely anti-Obama, anti-tax noise. Nor does opposing Obama seem to be an especially effective way to oppose the healthcare bill, since Obama has done little than demand that some sort of legislation be produced. This bill is much more the work of the House and Senate Democrats than Obama, who’s gotten bashed by his own party for failing to make policy suggestions to inform the bill and for his frankly less-than-vigorous leadership on the issue beyond saying the words “health,” “care,” and “reform” near one another in speeches from time to time.

More to the point, the Tea Party movement is far broader and less focused than the idea of a reaction toa bad bill would make it appear.

Is the Tea Party movement really only concerned with this one bill? Some of the protesters seem to be more generally opposing the expiration of the Bush tax cuts, and there’s also the anger at TARP and other bailouts in the mix.

Is the Tea Party movement arguing that the current health care system and health insurance process is working just fine and requires no reform? No, I don’t think very many people are really saying that; but an alternative to the health bill other than “nothing at all!” might be more credible as coherent political opposition.

The problem is that very few actual ideas seem to be comfortably shared by the protesters. The movement is united by a general anger at Washington, but I think the movement has not sharpened that anger into ideas — good or bad. There’s a lot more yelling than thinking going on. I’d point to things like anti-globalization protests for a similar sort of political phenomenon — a bunch of groups angry at the G8, but in wildly divergent ways who get together to yell inanely at a perceived common enemy without producing a larger movement that offers coherent alternatives or answers.

It’s so much easier to say the other guy is fucking it all up than it is to explain how to unfuck the situation. It helps to remember the bias in government is always towards doing something, as in virtually any institution or organization. (This bias is shared by the public; if the government just stopped on the health bill tomorrow, the next demand would be for someone to work on some kind of “good” legislation about something.) If all you shout is “Not that!”, you’re not going to effect any particularly positive change. “Not that! This instead!” is an idea; “Not that!” is just loud panic.

Heck, the whole Tea Party iconography was popularized by Rick Santelli’s rant back in February long before the details of the current mess of a healthcare bill existed. And that rant was about a response to housing market collapse. Describing the Tea Party movement as a single-issue protest against spending on the health bill is simply inaccurate. It’s an anti-government spending movement that doesn’t do much in the way of explaining in any detail what proper levels or directions for government spending might be.

Man, I just came from Sadly, No. I don’t need Walruschops up in my grill when I’m reading about my comics.

We’ll find out in November what the true power of the tea party movment is.

This whole Captain America controversy is breaking all the laws of physics. I’ve never seen a fire burn this hot with zero substance to fuel it…

Someone please feel free to translate:
“Hacerle caso a los pendejos es engrandecerlos”
Mr. Huston sure does qualify.
And I agree, Politics are distasteful and arrogant.
Comics?
Comics are awesome.
Best to all,
LJP

Speaking as a foreigner (albeit one that attempts to keep informed about USA politics), I tend to agree with Omar Karindu. The Tea Party movement seems to be rather “noisy”, but also to ultimately have very little to say other than that it does not want to have tax raises for any reason.

As long as they don’t actually propose alternatives, it is only fair to take them less than completely seriously, I think. At this point they function as an emotional outlet for their unsecurities, not as a true political movement.

Although it sure looks like many of them don’t quite realize how little they have to offer. Unfortunately, that does have very significant (if silly) political consequences.

FunkyGreenJerusalem

February 16, 2010 at 4:49 pm

Eh, just fuck that guy.
He’s a Rush Limbaugh type, just shit-stirring to shit-stir.
It’s one of the reasons a lot of other western democracies make fun of Americans for being idiots – guys like this, who act like a goose, and get a lot of attention for it.
(Also, the Tea-party is ridiculous. Why are they calling for a revolution? Why don’t they have specific policies they want to get changed? I mean, it’s hilarious, and makes the whole country look like hill-billies, but why is anyone treating them with any measure of respect?)
The amount of hypocrisy, condescending, and outright falsehoods in his blogs and comments show how unworthy he is of anyone’s time.

Comic books are capable of art just as much as a great novel or a film masterpiece.

Send him Joe Sacco’s Palestine.
Someone really should.
His head would explode.

Sir, you just described yourself.

Yeah, as an outsider looking in, he fit the image I have of right-wingers – the sort who still think Palin is a contender for anything, after the election is well and truly over, and call their President a socialist without knowing what it means – to a ‘T’.

Which is why I think ‘why bother’?
This is probably the most, if not only, attention his gotten for his little masturbatory blog, and it all came about because someone in production used a photo for reference that had a joke on it’s sign.

FunkyGreenJerusalem

February 16, 2010 at 4:59 pm

At no point did I call anyone int he movement an idiot.

I did.

It’s moronic through and through.

It’s a middle-class, middle-aged version of those smelly teenagers in Socialist or Marxist groups.
They are less about political or social change, than just having a yell.

Even if you agreed with whatever it is the tea-party stands for, it’s so poorly organised and aimless, that anyone who wasn’t an idiot would have gone and joined a group with more orgainisation, a clear ideology and message, and well, less idiots.

Also, what’s with the name of their group?
Referencing the Boston Tea-Party and calling for revolution?
Isn’t that a little insulting to the actual revolution, and the level of persecution the British had the colonists under, and the high level of taxes they imposed?
Because if Obama wanting to give a healthcare system which is similar to the one’s in every other western democracy (and the one in Hawaii), is actually on par with what was going on back in the day, then America’s founding fathers didn’t really have much to rebel against at all*, and the whole revolution was rather pointless.
I mean seriously, why not just start a group named after Rosa Parks, to protest having to wear shoes to work?

*Ben Franklin thought the price of the tea destroyed should be paid back.

FunkyGreenJerusalem

February 16, 2010 at 5:00 pm

Don’t pass Obamacare, stop throwing good money after bad.

Hang on, you don’t want a universal healthcare system (why would you, it’s only been a success for over forty years in most countries), but want to stop throwing good money after bad, which is what his reform is trying to do…

As for Captain America as a comic book character: I don’t think one can realistically expect him to work in a coherent way along the decades. Public perception of what is politically acceptable can and does change a lot.

Once upon a time, the USA were divided on the issue of slavery. Some day Medicare and Tea Parties will look quite unworthy of so much controversy (if they aren’t already).

Heck, the 1953 Cap was cover-billed as “commie-smasher”, and at the time we were supposed to believe him to be the same Steve Rogers that fought the Nazis alongside Stalin’s troops in 1941.

Myself, I wish Brubaker used USAgent instead of William in this story. Seems a better fit to me.

Omar Karindu, with the power of SUPER-hypocrisy!

February 16, 2010 at 5:10 pm

Hey, Funky, I support a European-style healthcare plan and I think the current health care bill is absolutely horrible. It penalizes people for not buying private insurance, and does virtually nothing to produce a Hawaii-style program. It’s an absolutely terrible attempt at reform, really.

As to the comics element…frankly, this is basically going to make Captain America #602 an expensive back issue and probably goose the book’s sales. I don’t see a boycott hurting it or Marvel much for the reasons I stated in my initial foray into the comments on this post.

Bill, if I ever meet you at a con, I owe you a beer (or dinner, or …something). Thanks for writing this.

FunkyGreenJerusalem

February 16, 2010 at 6:43 pm

Hey, Funky, I support a European-style healthcare plan and I think the current health care bill is absolutely horrible. It penalizes people for not buying private insurance, and does virtually nothing to produce a Hawaii-style program. It’s an absolutely terrible attempt at reform, really.

Doesn’t Obama himself think the current bill is horrible?
I thought that one was getting thrown out – the penalize people one.
Seems a lot less than he was trying for.
That said, the Tea-Party people were protesting before there was a bill.

Dog The Bounty Hunter supports universal healthcare.
I’m surprised the Dem’s, well rather Obama (as the dems seem scared of ever actually reforming anything), haven’t dragged Dog out, the way Repub’s drag out Chuck Norris or Sarah Palin.

.
As to the comics element…frankly, this is basically going to make Captain America #602 an expensive back issue and probably goose the book’s sales. I don’t see a boycott hurting it or Marvel much for the reasons I stated in my initial foray into the comments on this post.

Only in the states though, there was a heap at my LCS.

Makes a ridiculous faux-polical movement look slightly less silly than they do in real life, doesn’t really move copies anywhere else, the way it does in it’s country of origin

Omar Karindu, with the power of SUPER-hypocrisy!

February 16, 2010 at 6:58 pm

Considering Dog’s apparent opinion of African-Americans, I can see why he’s not being trotted out by Obama.

FunkyGreenJerusalem

February 16, 2010 at 7:21 pm

Considering Dog’s apparent opinion of African-Americans, I can see why he’s not being trotted out by Obama.

Well, it’s more his use of a particular word that has him in trouble.

If anything, all the more reason to trot him out – they probably don’t agree on anything else, but they agree on this.
And besides, I doubt the rabid Dog fans (ha!) are the usual ‘leftist hive mind’ Obama can reach on his own.

Tempest in a teabag. Skimming through the linked article, it becomes pretty obvious that this Houston fellow isn’t worth taking seriously. He displays all the vapid behavior he attributes to the caricatures he presents as his foes and disparages their imagined acuity, education and intelligence in a hilariously sloppy display of unprofessional composition and crap writing. “To top it all off there is a surfeit of self-esteem, no doubt instilled in them boy our liberal, and failed, public school system,” indeed. Guy needs to spend more time working on the fundamentals rather than trying to wring the maximum amount of sarcasm and snark out of gratuitous abuse of the italics tag. Unfortunately,Houston’s pompous and unself-aware antics are hardly unique in the world of internet discourse, nor is his shallow political chauvinism exclusive to people who identify with the American Right.

Bleep-bloop-bleep.

(In the interests of full disclosure, I should probably admit that I didn’t read the Robot 6 piece. Never cottoned much to that blog, for some reason.)

I just want to commend Omar for his very well-thought-out and reasoned comment above. (The second, really long one.)

The less infuence the government has in my life the better. I work for the federal government as a contractor and I’ve served in the military. I’ve seen first hand how inefficient the government is in every single activity they try to perform. I sympathize with the tea party movement and agree with the anti tax sentiment. As it stands now I get taxed on any income I earn, I pay a sales tax on anything I buy, and then I pay a property tax on my home and vehicles. I’m taxed out.
When I read the Cap issue in question I was offended by the depiction of the tea partiers as racists and idiots. You wouldn’t see a comic portray any liberal organization such as ACORN in the same manner. Its the same kind of liberal crap we saw in Amazing Spider-Man last year when Wolverine and Spider-Man shared a fist bump over Bush being out of office. Give me a freaking break.

FunkyGreenJerusalem

February 17, 2010 at 3:45 pm

As it stands now I get taxed on any income I earn, I pay a sales tax on anything I buy, and then I pay a property tax on my home and vehicles. I’m taxed out.

Then go live somewhere in Africa, where you won’t pay taxes.
See how fun it is there.

Otherwise, live with the fact that you’re country is the most developed in the world, and yet your country ranks 26th in most taxes paid.

So you’ve got it the best (technically, I’m happy not living there, and I my country has more taxes), and don’t pay the most taxes – Denmark does.
It’s the price you pay for living where you live.
Get over it.

When I read the Cap issue in question I was offended by the depiction of the tea partiers as racists and idiots. You wouldn’t see a comic portray any liberal organization such as ACORN in the same manner

I’m not sure if comics have, but everyone else has made fun of ACORN.
Heck, read Fables, Willingham (through the characters) constantly makes fun of left wing ideals.

I don’t think the Tea PArty are racists, although they are predominantly white and middleclass, but they are idiots.

Its the same kind of liberal crap we saw in Amazing Spider-Man last year when Wolverine and Spider-Man shared a fist bump over Bush being out of office. Give me a freaking break.

To be fair, over half of the US gave each other fist bumps over that, and 80% of the rest of the world did as well.

OK Funky, so you’re saying I should be excited and overjoyed to give my hard earned income away? For the record, I don’t mind taxes to fund this country’s infrastructure but I think the left wants more government interest in my life than I am comfortable with. I’m guessing you want to live in a society where we pay half of our income in taxes to support plenty of pork programs. I’ve seen the government waste first hand, I know how much money is wasted every single day. I love my country, hell I volunteered 6 years of my life to serve it. Somehow I highly doubt you can say the same, just like most libs.
Would you care to explain why the tea partiers are idiots? Is it just because you don’t agree with them? Every time I’ve seen you post a comment on this blog you have the same condescending attitude that everybody else is a complete idiot compared to you. Excuse me but I don’t put a lot of faith in your ability to tell makes a person an idiiot or not.
And I’m not sure how you figure over half the US were happy with Obama being elected. You are aware that not even half the eligible population even voted in the election. Also, have you seen his approval ratings of late? Based on the number it seems that the majority of the country is now seeing what happens when you put the far left in charge. Those like Pelosi, Harry Reid, and Barney Frank who think they are smarter than the entirety of the country/world and deserve your money because you are too dumb to spend it properly.

I really have no strong oppinion on taxes or whether the government or the private sector can provide a better health plan. Many people on both sides of the economic debate sound like they’re talking more about a religious calling than a pratical matter. It seems like they’ve decided beforehand that the government providing certain services is EVIL or AWESOME, and the rest is just rationalization.

The only thing I wonder is why the anti-tax people never seem to object to military spending, no matter how wrong-headed some of the military actions undertaking by the US are. It’s like military spending is never “throwing good money after bad”.

“I think the left wants more government interest in my life than I am comfortable with”

And the right doesn’t?

Isn’t the right that wants the government regulating who can marry whom?

FunkyGreenJerusalem

February 17, 2010 at 5:21 pm

OK Funky, so you’re saying I should be excited and overjoyed to give my hard earned income away?

Not in day to day, but if you look at other countries that don’t pay taxes, or have stable governments at all, you’re paying for the privilege of living the life you take for granted.

For the record, I don’t mind taxes to fund this country’s infrastructure but I think the left wants more government interest in my life than I am comfortable with. I’m guessing you want to live in a society where we pay half of our income in taxes to support plenty of pork programs.

The left wants more interest in your life?
How so?
Pretty certain it’s the right who are tough on crime, and removing privacy rights all over, and who push the hardest to give more money to the biggest resource drainer America has, the military.
That’s the biggest ‘pork’ program of all, yet tea-bagger is in the street demanding it’s removal.

Pork programs is an American term.
I’m happy paying high taxes which fund educating others in society, and making sure that when I get sick, or if I have an accident, or if I just want a check up, I don’t pay for it.

I’ve seen the government waste first hand, I know how much money is wasted every single day. I love my country, hell I volunteered 6 years of my life to serve it. Somehow I highly doubt you can say the same, just like most libs.

And did you volunteer?
Or did you take a job with the military?
I’m not knocking you serving, but let’s be honest, you volunteered six years of your life serving your country, in the exact same way I volunteered six years of my life to work where I do.

.
Would you care to explain why the tea partiers are idiots? Is it just because you don’t agree with them? Every time I’ve seen you post a comment on this blog you have the same condescending attitude that everybody else is a complete idiot compared to you. Excuse me but I don’t put a lot of faith in your ability to tell makes a person an idiiot or not.

1. They are idiots because they are protesting that their guy didn’t win the election – they weren’t even a big enough for a story, until Fox News commentators started covering them, because their views line up.
2.The movement talks about how they are paying taxation without representation – which is a blatant fallacy.
3.They are crying out for a new revolution, comparing the current state to that of pre-revolution America, again, a blatant fallacy.
4. They have used Sarah Palin as a bit of a figure head. That woman is an idiot. They must be idiots for letting her attach herself and not realising she’s an idiot, or they are even bigger idiots for knowing she’s a an idiot, but still letting her front them.
5. Only in a country of such wealth and Freedom, as in America, would you have a bunch of people crying so much about absolutely nothing. The very fact that gather on public land to legally protest the government, it’s policies, and people who don’t support them, really undercuts their message.

Their constant talk of what universal healthcare cover means is usually made up of lies – it’s a success in every country, and US state, that has it. (and let’s not forget, they were decrying it before there was a bill).

Sorry you don’t like my style, but I don’t really care.
It’s mostly in jest, but to be honest, I think about things before having an opinion, and find the average objection or disagreement to be something I’d already thought of and dismissed.
But y’know, if you wanna assume I’m dead serious about a line in the sand for the work of Paul Pope, go right ahead.

And I’m not sure how you figure over half the US were happy with Obama being elected. You are aware that not even half the eligible population even voted in the election

So everyone who didn’t vote hated him?
Why didn’t they vote for McCain then?
Every eligible citizen had the option to vote, and of those that did, Obama won.
In my country, you have to vote, so we can tell what the country really thinks.
With yours, we have to go on the assumption that over half were happy.

Also, have you seen his approval ratings of late?

It’s up from where Bush got to!

But seriously folks, it is.
Also, an election doesn’t count of giving a true feeling of the country, but a poll sample does?
Ok.
He’s still got support from over half the country, and his first years going about as well as it did for lil’Ronnie Regan.
He’s actual best bet to boost ratings would be to start a new war for flag-wavers (and tea-baggers) to get behind, which would cost a lot more than healthcare would, but reality seems to play little bearing with polling figures.

Based on the number it seems that the majority of the country is now seeing what happens when you put the far left in charge

Are you kidding???
In Europe, and Australia, that guy would be on the right.
He isn’t the far left at all.

And heck, go back and take a look at the Clinton years – that was the biggest prosperity your country has had for a good while.
Or even, go look at the absolute cluster-fuck the far right did in regard to your national debt, allowing a global financial crisis to kick off, ruining international opinions, and starting two wars that are no closer to being over than when they started.

It’s this sort of one-sided blindness that drives me nuts about the morons in the tea-party.
Their concerns would be valid, if the picture they paint had any bearing on reality.
But no, Obama is an extreme left socialist because he’s slightly to the left.
The far-left is in charge because they want to bring in a plan similar to one that’s been going in Australia since ’75, Canada since ’66 and the UK since 1948!
And Hawaii have had a working model of it since ’74.
Those radicals!

Those like Pelosi, Harry Reid, and Barney Frank who think they are smarter than the entirety of the country/world and deserve your money because you are too dumb to spend it properly.

Well actually, they are trying to bring in the sort of ‘quality of life’ measures the rest of first world Western-style democracies brought in before we even got close to where America was at in terms of industry and wealth.
So not smarter than the world, they are still trying to catch up.

And honestly, the only time I saw a clip of Barney Frank, he was making fun of a constituent.
The constituent had just asked him why he was supporting a nazi policy (health care).
Telling her she’s an idiot didn’t seem so out of place.
If that’s your opposition, I’d be feeling pretty smart as well.

I find it humorous that people call Obama a far-left politician. The U. S. has NEVER had a far-left person in charge. Even FDR and Carter, probably the most liberal politicians we’ve had since the definitions of “Democrat” and “Republican” (remember, Lincoln and T. Roosevelt were Republicans, and they were fairly liberal according to our definitions), weren’t anywhere near the far left politicians in other countries. As FGJ said, Obama is slightly to the left. The people who think he’s a radical socialist would have a fit if they saw what the rest of the world considers “leftist.”

FunkyGreenJerusalem

February 17, 2010 at 6:44 pm

As FGJ said, Obama is slightly to the left.

I’d argue he’d actually fit in better with the Australian Right.

Then again, the politicians on the main right-wing party, ironically called The Liberal Party, would better fit the American left.

It’s a Mad World.

FunkyGreenJerusalem

February 17, 2010 at 6:45 pm

Sorry meant… “Then again, the politicians on the main right-wing party, ironically called The Liberal Party, would better fit the American left”, and yet I still cheer for the Dems.

In Canada, Obama could comfortably sit with our Conservative Party or our centrist Liberal Party. I’m not sure he’d pass muster with our lefty NDP.

That said, I do agree with Chuck D that the US would benefit with reducing taxes; cutting a third of current military spending and diverting another third to ensuring every citizen of the country has access to basic health care would probably go a long way.

Well, since Mr. Reed didn’t see his way clear to post my reply to him, here it is…

http://www.publiusforum.com/2010/02/17/a-reply-to-bill-reed/

FunkyGreenJerusalem

February 17, 2010 at 8:50 pm

Geez, Warner, that’s even worse that the other bollocks you’ve written.

If you’re going to keep arguing on the grounds of straw man, hypocrisy and assumptions, a least try and not do it yourself.

I mean seriously, surely you aim for more in life than being a less known, less followed Rush Limbaugh?

I sent our young comics fan this reply this morning and he’s since emailed me twice about it. Yet he hasn’t posted it on his site. In other words, he’s not interested in both sides being covered. That all sort of makes his protestations a bit hollow, doesn’t it??

Wow, you didn’t tell me about this bit! I thought you were all about the first tenet of journalism! For shame, Warner, for shame.

If you want, I can post the rest of our correspondence, but I’m afraid you don’t come off too well. I do hope you take my recommendation of Fables to heart, though. It’s written by a conservative!

It should be pointed out that liking Obama and being happy that Bush is gone are not the same thing.

I’m more of a libertarian type, so I tend to hate both the far-right and the far-left (both the US kind and the European kind).

FGJ…

When you start looking for and calling people idiots, you need to go no farther than the nearest mirror.

Your vitriol in this makes Huston and others look they might have valid points, because you go straight for the slander, and apparently have no clue of what conservatives actually think.

The Tea Party movement is not as much against taxation, per se, as it is against deficit spending by ALL the establishment (not just democrat or republican). One CANNOT “Spend one’s way out of debt by spending more borrowed money”. Nor is heavy taxes an answer, when increasing taxes in an economic crisis only further retards the chance of recovery, and the ability of the existing tax code to bring in as much revenue as it did before. Even JFK realized this, when he made HIS tax cuts (which made those of Reagan & the Bushes seem minor by comparison), that caused tax revenue to skyrocket after cuts, from more money being spent to generate more taxable income.

The Tea Party movement is also asking for a return to more closely following the Constitution, and its admendments (especially the Bill of Rights). Those that protested what they called “Bush’s Illegal War”, if they really felt that it was illegal, should be IN the Tea Party movement (not attacking it blindly, as most of them currently are), as those are the VERY type of concerns that the movement has – Executive government co-opting rights reserved in the Constitution & amendments that were expressly given to Congress, the Judiciary, or to the States (or for that matter, the unconstitutional acts taken in relation to GM & Chrysler – things would have been much better had the government just nationalized the retirement plans of the companies, they way they did of many failing railroads decades ago – but that would have eliminated 99% of the UAW’s reason to exist, and they have far too much influence in relation to their actual size, with lawmakers in both parties, but especially the Democrats). Similarly, Congress trying to legislate nationally things that are not in their constitutional power, Judges trying to legislate from the bench (effectively making laws via rulings, bypassing the Congress that was supposed to pass bills and the President that signs them into law or vetoes them), and the like are ALSO part of the abuse that the Tea Party types are against – regardless of party affiliation of the abusers.

History lesson – types of things the Tea Party types believe (note, I’m not quite in their camp, but I can see it from here):

The ability to strike down a law by declaring the a law unconstitutional is actually NOT given to any court in the Constitution. It was actually a technically illegal act by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court at the time, as the Constitution failed to describe what SHOULD be done in such a case (as the courts can rule a law violates the constitution, as part of its reason for existing). That set a precedent, of effectively legislating from the Bench (making up law by court ruling) that’s been pretty much unchallenged since, except by conservatives (in general) and those directly affected by each individual case of such type.

What SHOULD have happened was a constitutional amendment to GIVE the court that power, but one never was passed (lower level federal statutes, maybe – but it’s a constitutional issue, and should have been an Amendment). Since then, the precedent that a judge can alter laws by court rulings has become just as prevalent and dangerous, as the other precedent set IN the process of establishing that precedent (striking down laws) was necessary to the proper functioning of the court.

This type of matter (rule of law, passed by the people vs. rulings of judges) is especially tearing apart California during this, from the whole gay marriage issue, to where judges and lawsuits from misguided environmental groups are causing entire counties’ worth of crops from relatively small, private, farmers and orchard growers to fail (if not downright kill the trees) via stopping all irrigation, to protect a few, non-indigenous fish from going without water.

P.S. Lack of health care for the poor is a myth. I personally have been unemployed for 2 years, and have no health insurance, but in all states, you HAVE to be seen if you go to a hospital emergency room (and can fill out papers to have it paid for by public or private funds – I even had a 3 day hospital stay while employed at $8/hour 4 years ago, that cost me ZERO, because I filled out the proper forms), and if I needed more long-term treatment from a normal doctor, I could go down to the local social services office and arrange for a medical card for the state to pay for it, in a matter of days. The DNC “health care bill” had no health care in it – just lots of additional government job openings, taxes that in the end would not actually be spent on health care, and lots of pork for the insurance companies – there’s a reason that the stocks for them went UP when it initially appeared that this “insurance regulation bill” was going to pass – as it would have been a windfall of profits for the insurance companies, and no wonder AARP was all for it, seeing as the bill would have eliminated 95% of the alternative medicare coverage plans better than their supplement plans, and AARP is already the nation’s biggest insurance company, so they would have made a killing in new policy commissions.
That whole states and employees of the unions that are the biggest contributors to the DNC would be exempt from paying for this, only made the Tea Party types even more opposed to it, than just from the bill being the misrepresented bad legislation that it was.

It’s funny, last week I was called a racist conservative nazi for my postings on the Captain America Tea Party controversy and now I’m called a left wing communist because I don’t like the N-word.

http://www.youtube.com/user/iyannaw08

FunkyGreenJerusalem

February 18, 2010 at 3:38 pm

When you start looking for and calling people idiots, you need to go no farther than the nearest mirror.

Actually, I just had to read down your post – that is an absolute mess of an attempt to defend the Tea-Party.
There’s no defending them, just so you know – they are the right wing equivalent of people handing out socialist magazines at an anti-war rally – they listen to sound bites, ignore reality, and jump to the craziest of conclusions with no basis in reality.

When Glenn Beck thinks your solid, is the time to look in the mirror,.

The Tea Party movement is not as much against taxation, per se, as it is against deficit spending by ALL the establishment (not just democrat or republican).

Funny they didn’t pop up until there was a Democrat President, who hasn’t spent as much as the Republican president did then, isn’t it?
And that they are supported by the Right leaning (propelling?) Fox news.
And that they keep getting right wingers to talk at conferences.
And that they often have people carrying anti-lib or anti-dem signs at their rallies….

One CANNOT “Spend one’s way out of debt by spending more borrowed money”.

No, but you can invest it into expansion of industry, and use money to help keep people afloat – digging holes and filling them in means people getting paid.

The Tea Party movement is also asking for a return to more closely following the Constitution, and its admendments

Even the 16th?

(Not to mention 6th and the 8th, which they were happy to sit quietly whilst it was ignored).

Those that protested what they called “Bush’s Illegal War”, if they really felt that it was illegal, should be IN the Tea Party movement

It was illegal by international law, however, illegal by your own laws?
I wouldn’t have said that.
It was more they didn’t like the slaughter of innocents that happened, and is happening, in Iraq, particularly as the reasons given on the need to go to war – to the public and congress – were false.

Where was this Tea Party movement protests when Haebus Corpus was suspended, or people were held for years without trial?
Why did it take to a left wing politician was in, for their movement to get started?

(And let’s face it, he’s getting a lot more stick from the right, and more outrageous claims about his standing, than is normally given to a democrat President. I wonder what’s different about him from all the others?)

Congress trying to legislate nationally things that are not in their constitutional power, Judges trying to legislate from the bench

Well, States can challenge Congress, or repeal their laws individually if that’s the case – there are measures in place – and a Judge’s ruling can be appealed, if it turns out their precedent doesn’t follow the laws already in place, or is out of touch with community standards.
(Judges don’t set as many laws as people like to think, and that they are allowed to interpret the law, and not necessarily do what the man in power wants, is actually in the people’s favour).

I’d lose those boogie men mate, if it were as actually bad the right carry on about, it would have been curbed a long time ago – the same things happen in every country, and the rest of us don’t end up shitting on about it half as much.

That set a precedent, of effectively legislating from the Bench (making up law by court ruling) that’s been pretty much unchallenged since, except by conservatives (in general) and those directly affected by each individual case of such type.

No it didn’t.
Legislating from the bench, as mentioned, happens so rarely – in fact, usually only if a new set of unprecedented circumstances come up, can a Judge set a new precedent.

OF course it’s only challenged by those involved, or those in charge – you can’t challenge someone else’s ruling without them being involved.

What actual examples are there of these laws from the bench you’re unhappy about?

I also have to note, that was the only example you gave of what the tea-party is about, doesn’t match with their name and it doesn’t match the key message they seem to be spreading – they are an anti-tax movement, first and foremost.

Lack of health care for the poor is a myth. I personally have been unemployed for 2 years, and have no health insurance, but in all states, you HAVE to be seen if you go to a hospital emergency room (

Going to an emergency room for any minor ailment?
That’s third world, mate, that’s a bloody disgrace.
Not only having to go and wait that long because you’re a little sick, but because of the drain it puts on an Emergency room, who should be busy dealing only with the people who are going to die right then and there if not looked after.

if I needed more long-term treatment from a normal doctor, I could go down to the local social services office and arrange for a medical card for the state to pay for it, in a matter of days.

So when sick, you’ve got to go and organise your treatment?
In the first world countries with universal healthcare, we just go to the doctor, regardless of circumstance (at a GP or medical center) and we get it sorted.

The DNC “health care bill” had no health care in it

Shame the scare tactics – death panels! – opened the bill up to so much watering down.

Bravo, tea-party, bravo.

and lots of pork for the insurance companies

Using politicians/commentators slogans just makes one sound like a puppet.

That whole states and employees of the unions that are the biggest contributors to the DNC would be exempt from paying for this, only made the Tea Party types even more opposed to it, than just from the bill being the misrepresented bad legislation that it was.

Idiot.

What a load of shit that sentence is.

FunkyGreenJerusalem

February 18, 2010 at 3:41 pm

I’m more of a libertarian type, so I tend to hate both the far-right and the far-left (both the US kind and the European kind).

What’s the European kind of far left?

Well, your Funkiness, the European far left are the ones that want government ownership of large businesses (and sometimes smaller ones, too), strict wage and price controls, and redistribution of wealth to a much greater extent than US politicians ever call for. I am not an expert on European politics so I’m sure I’m missing a lot of details, but I think this is probably enough to give an impression of European leftism. (And I do know that European governments turned against these policies in various degrees beginning in the 1980s, but they’re still fairly popular ideas in Europe.)

Also, it should be pointed out in response to your post just before this one, that the Tea Party movement DID exist before Obama was elected. They received some press during the primaries, and I think they’d been around for a year or two before that. But it was a much smaller movement then. They did get a huge surge in attention and membership once Obama was in office, and I do believe a large number of them are simply anti-Obama and have no other motivation for their activities.

For the record, I did vote for Obama as the lesser of the two evils, but I haven’t much cared for what he’s done so far. He is a lot better than Bush, but it would be an amazing accomplishment if he weren’t.

Basara, my brother-in-law had a chronic dental condition, one that caused him pain. He couldn’t get the dental surgery he needed because he did not have insurance. The emergency room is not the be all and end all of medical treatment. Not to mention mental health services, perscriptions, conditions that require more extensive care and monitoring, etc. The drain it puts on the health care industry’s resources is one of the reasons health care needs to be reformed.

No, I don’t like the reform bill either, bit the current system is wasteful and exclusionary. I support universal health care, but will be surprised if I see it anytime soon.

I believe this is the first time that i have posted on this blog… funny that.

Someone above (I believe FGJ) said that the Tea Party movement is incomprehensible. I agree.

A cursory glance at all of the positions supposedly advocated by the Tea Party in the comments above show without a doubt that they are, in fact, incomprehensible. We would not, after all, need to argue about what they stood for if their positions, policy proposals, etc. were coherent.

Now, some comments for the anti-Tea Partiers…

Attacking Sarah Palin’s attachment to the Tea Party is pointless and unhelpful. I despise the woman, but she appears to be, if anything, trying to attach HERSELF to the Tea Party for publicity. For the love of god, the woman was governor of a state that is one of the biggest receivers of pork. Additionally, Alaska has NO STATE INCOME TAX, due to their tremendous oil wealth combined with a small population. What experience, if any, has the woman had planning the budget and programs of a state budget under the gun from revenues? This is not to insult Alaska or Alaskans in general; I am simply pointing out that the budget situation in Alaska is greatly simplified compared to most American states (California… what the ****).

For those pro-Tea Party…

You hurt your argument by not starting it when President Bush spent the federal surplus on tax cuts. THEN was the time to worry about paying the federal debt. THEN was the time when we were really in a position to effectively plan for a future of debt reduction. And to give credit where credit was due, the Contract with America generation of Republican leadership deserves a great deal of props for that– it was not all (or even mostly) the work of Clinton, though he did help reform by not opposing it tooth and nail. It is actually somewhat surprising that the best work the government did in recent memory was while the Congress was trying to destroy the President (for those of you that think Obama’s getting flack… remember that the Republican congress had a blood vendetta to find anything on Clinton for most of his presidency). I will agree that Obama is continuing to exacerbate a fiscal mess, but that mess has a tremendous amount to do with the Bush presidency. But you know what? I blame the Congress for this mess more than either president. BECAUSE THEY COULD HAVE SAID NO. Republicans never said no to Bush. Democrats never say no to Obama.

I must also ask Tea-Partiers… do you take G8 protesters seriously? That is how the Tea Party looks on television. I am sure that there are erudite activists among you; those that i have heard from, I agree with to tell the truth. But you are not putting your best face forward by letting the ****s that are shown on FoxNews appear on television. Remember, “Tea bag the dems before they tea bag you” was a real sign BEFORE appearing in Captain America 602.

For Mr. Huston…

You are the worst kind of educated person. You are the type that uses your intelligence and education to play a game that does nothing to change the status quo, while talking a whole lot about “change”. Your rhetoric and your linguistic flourishes and your “thousands of fans” do nothing to change this world for the better or worse. Instead, you feed like a parasite on the anger and frustration of those around you. If you had anything of worth to contribute, you would have on your blog. Instead, you choose to spend your time attacking a publication with a circulation of less than 100,000. And your reason? To get your name out there and heard. You’ve certainly garnered a great deal of press from it. Kudos. And **** you. You belittle my personal beliefs in small government and low taxes with your disingenuousness.

And as for fans of Captain america 602…

C’mon… it was a shot at the Tea Party and we all know it. You can say that it was not something to get upset over (I agree), you can say that many Tea Partiers are ripe for parody (they most definitely are), and you can even say that Republicans have done equal or worse (the Barack/Joker signs being particularly of note)— but you are being intellectually dishonest if you say that nothing was meant by it and it was a generic tax protest. Denial of that fact only makes the Mr. Huston’s of the world feel more righteous.

Good day all :)

[...] Then read this, and this, and this and finally, this. [...]

While I appreciate the sentiment behind the post (being vaguely aware of the situation), the writing style you chose to employ is nigh-unreadable, padded with histrionic statements and needlessly wordy sentences (the first sentence of the post being a great example of the latter).

You Mr. Reed are a better man than I. I want to see these kinda of bile spewing pundits, who for some reason are ONLY conservatives (and they wonder why I hate them and find them all generally evil), hung from some tree and disemboweled. They are another of the many cancers causing an ill to this nation today and while I gladly will support free speech I can’t abide outright ignorance and stupidity. That is why I leave it up to calmer minds to fight these battles. I just don’t have the stomach for it. People like Huston, Palin, Glenn Beck, and the king of them all, Rush Limbaugh are vomitous and they and their progeny should be eradicated from the Earth.

An open letter to Mr. Todd Huston:

Fuck off.

‘Nuff said.

Why are we wasting time on this moron? I’m personally glad Brubaker’s Captain America finally got a bit political and it’s done that very well and respectfully. Of course the more firebrand conservatives aren’t going to like it, but there’s no reason to appease them, for one moment. Artists in this country, have always been more progressive; you don’t see actors or musicians wringing their hands over it, trying to appear mainstream. Huston and his ilk don’t merit a single post in defense, because there’s no need to defend. This is simple freedom of expression, in a beautifully expressive medium.

Umm…wow.

I have little doubt that I would agree with all the sentiments expressed here by the blogger.

I simply couldn’t be bothered to read it all the way through. Painfully too long to read! Possibly meandering, but then–this is a blog with no editor, so of course it could go on forever. I might have actually read this were it not so godawful ‘long-winded’. Seriously, no offense intended–just honest opinion here.

the writing style you chose to employ is nigh-unreadable, padded with histrionic statements and needlessly wordy sentences

I pulled out my overly-academic style for this; it got me A’s on English papers in college. But I also refuse to write diagrammable sentences. The semi-colon is my mistress.

Painfully too long to read! Possibly meandering, but then–this is a blog with no editor, so of course it could go on forever. I might have actually read this were it not so godawful ‘long-winded’.

Sheesh. It’s barely two printed pages long, c’mon. I could have gone on longer, sure, but I felt all my major points were explicated as well as they needed to be.

I edit myself here. I don’t just blindly punch the keys and hit ‘submit.’

You just made me very proud to be a comic book reader. Now let us not give this person much more of our time, as he clearly does not deserve it.

Nice response Bill, but I noticed a typo:

“I waive my write to the first tenet of journalism, because I am not a journalist…”

Perhaps you meant to say Right to the first tenet of journalism? Unless I am missing something or not reading close enough. Keep up the good work!

Greatmetropolitan

February 20, 2010 at 12:05 pm

“Comics haven’t been raised to art, art has been lowered to comics. ” – Warner Todd Huston

I find it hard to take a man seriously when he dismisses an entire medium in one sentence. This shows a terrifying level of ignorance on the subject matter you’re trying to converse about, Mr Huston, and all but loses you the argument on it’s own.

I’ve grown up my entire life loving comics. I’ve been angered and inspired, brought to tears and yelled for pure joy. This is not the effect of a lower art form, sir. Far from it. If comics are achieving more recognition nowadays it is not because art is being lowered to them, but merely directed. Finally people are starting to take notice of comics and see them as a rich storehouse of ideas.

I suggest you visit your local comic store, Borders or Barnes and Noble and ask for a mature comic. For any comic. In short, Mr Huston, I suggest you do your research before making unsupportable claims.

90% of the right and/or Republicans can go fuck themselves, not for their political beliefs, but for their irrational religion/power/control/money obsession and their fear of “the Others.”

And don’t you forget that, they are a fearful and cowardly lot.

The other 10% are fine with me.

I loved the part about culture being lowered to comics, even though he admits to not reading them in 25 years.
25 years!

Television, film, novels, jazz were all considered ‘low’ art forms for years after they came on the scene…did the culture lower to these as well, or did they finally mature? Nothing starts off as a “classic,” not even Shakespeare.

Perhaps you meant to say Right to the first tenet of journalism?

Yes, I did. There’s also another grammatical error located in the piece– first to find it wins a beer!

To quote Bill Maher pointing out a poll that found almost 90% of tea party protesters believed their taxes had gone up or stayed the same under Obama and only 2% thought they went down, despite the fact that taxes have gone down for 95% of Americans:

“Only 2% of the people in a movement about taxes named after a tax revolt have the slightest idea what’s going on with taxes.”

I’m sure a lot of people would disagree with other parts of his argument that this is more like a cult than a political movement:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zagXJbfVnbY

But it’s a movement built on anger, not ideas. There’s a good reason a lot of us don’t have much respect for it. “Don’t pass Obamacare” isn’t a policy or a solution to our health care problems. It’s a bumper sticker. “Stop sending good money after bad” is a meaningless cliche, particularly coming from people who weren’t so vocal about it until their side lost an election. And until the movement gets beyond baseless accusations and scare tactics, they are indeed ripe for parody.

That said, ” it was a shot at the Tea Party and we all know it”?

No, we don’t all know it. Again, real slogans from real signs from real rallies that weren’t in the original script. How is it a shot at them? The sign people were so upset about was real. Period. Why is that offensive? It’s insane that the right-wing media has found a way to manufacture outrage over this, and even moreso that they’ve been able to keep it going for so long.

Aren’t there serious issues conservative bloggers should be talking about? Or is it just that it’s so much easier to whine about a comic book than to discuss matters of importance and substance?

Warner Todd Huston is an ass. A giant one. He is also very, very fat. Like Kevin Smith getting kicked off Southwest airline fat. Yet not nearly as witty, intelligent or fluent as Mr. Smith, surely not as modest or creative , certainly not as important and most definitely not in the right (get it?) on this. He’s just a giant ass trying to be a blogging bully…epic fail. Now that my friend is the lowest common denominator.
-a rare registered Republican

This whole affair reminds me why I have been trying to divorced myself from politics. To be honest I am overjoyed that people are trying to engaging in reasonable discussion but I have to say that it is a wasted effort. This controversy and the elements that have started and perpetuated it have no use for reason. Reason is a tool that when property used leads to understanding and compromise, but for fringe elements such as these people that lack the legitimate support and political clout to engage in any formal process they become reduced to using various logical fallacies. This is quite obvious since everything is emotional and personal, designed to stir the ire of their audience.

As for the attacks against the medium, they are as meaningless as the controversy. All that matters is that we enjoy them and if we get something out of them all the better. We do not need to justify ourselves or our hobby to anyone. I feel one the greatest strengths about comics is that anyone is welcomed to join in on the fun. As for the issue of whether or not comics are art and what exactly is art is a debate for another day and for all those involved having cooler heads.

Although I don’t agree with all of Huston’s sentiments, I can definitely emphathize with many of his points. I do find it humorous that in the same breath, many rail against him painting large groups of people with a broad brush and then denegrating them but then turn right around and do the same thing to a different group with which they don’t agree. Pot, meet kettle.

And for those criticizing those that took offense, one would think everyone that owns a share of Disney or Marvel would have a right to weigh in whether they read the books or not. As an investor that pulls a good 25 Marvel titles a month, I contacted Investor Relations and found that exercise much more theraputic than any posting on the internet. Marvel Editorial often acts like they don’t want my dollar but Investor Relations tends to listen a bit more. Especially now that Disney is the big dog in the room.

I don’t know Mr Reed or any of the bloggers here and am not familiar with this debate. However, Mr. Reed states,

“In summation: with great power, there must also come great responsibility. Words hold great power; therefore, please exercise some responsibility. That maxim is derived from a comic book…”

I am sorry Mr. Reed, that is ridiculous, a quick Google search could have led you to the biblical origins of that maxim (Luke 12:48). As an atheist I feel that it is of the utmost importance to understand how biblical terms have become common parlance. Nonetheless, it is assumptions like that one that kind of prove WTH’s point for him. Fan boys act like comics are the center of the world. When a statement like Spider-Man’s oft quoted tag line is misconstrued as originating with his comic instead of simply also being used in the comic it denigrates the status of comics as an erudite medium.

Please, take better care to research your assumptions about comics. Small missteps like that, or the one in Captain America #602 garner an unbelievable amount of attention and make the medium seem sophomoric.

Uh…

“From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.”

I can see the similarities, but Luke was no Stan Lee.

You know, I wasn’t going to make a comment here but since I already committed to scrolling down and reading all the comments, I figured I might as well go all the way.

For the record, let me state that I can’t say one way or another if I’m for or against the health care bill. It’s simply way too complex for me to understand – mainly because I was never given a chance to hear the pros and cons about certain REAL things that were being considered for the bill. Instead, all I heard was lots of incoherent yelling and bogus claims of “death panel this and death panel that”. Where we had a genuine chance to try to find a common ground in order to find SOMETHING that would work for a large percentage of people here in the US, we instead got yet another opportunity for one party to screw another party – just as it always has been and just as it always will be.

And that’s not a pro-democrat statement either – although many of you who might be republicans might see it that way. When Regan was in the White House, the Democrats back then were just as much a “party of no” as the Republicans are now. This is not something new. This has been going on for AGES. The only type of things that are TRULY “bipartisan” in Congress are things that won’t ever effect us directly or personally – things like steroids in baseball. It’s easy to be bipartisan on something like that since it doesn’t really matter in the greater scheme of things.

But Mr. Huston is a prime example of exactly what frustrates me, personally, in this day and age of political pundit cable “news” TV these days. His ranting and ravings are indicative of the “Beck culture”. They have JUST enough of a truth to them that his words SEEM meaningful but then under closer inspection, you come to realize just how hypocritical or self-delussional they really are.

Wow! You’re judging an industry that you haven’t been a part of or had any interest in since 1985? No wonder you STILL think comic books are juvenile and the art rudimentary. That’s what they WERE when you last picked up a comic book. Just because I once drove a ’78 Chevet
back in high school doesn’t mean there hasn’t been any technological advances in cars since then either. And please don’t tell me you write your blog on an Apple IIe – computers have come a long way since then as well.

The problem with people like Mr. Huston or Glen Beck is their words have just enough truth in them that they not only make you believe them but they also make you want to stand up and scream : “Damn right! I’m mad as hell and I’m not gonna take it any more!” but what are you REALLY mad ABOUT? More taxes? A healthcare bill that is completely incomprehensible because all people want to do is shout and scream? Two wars with some gleefully cheering to start another THIRD war? The morning commute? A sucky job? A crappy or stressed out marriage? Well, guess what? According to people like Beck and Mr. Huston, there’s a simple solution – be mad at the black guy in the White House – or, if you want to be politically correct, be mad at those stinkin’ liberals, socialist and democrats. It’s all THEIR fault. But whatever you do, don’t ask Beck or Mr. Huston for any REAL solutions. They are way too busy pointing their fingers at the other guy and blaming him (and making a pretty darn good living at it too, mind you) then to have any concrete, workable or sane solutions.

I’ll listen to Beck and people like Mr. Huston when they start offering up ACTUAL solutions to ACTUAL problems instead blowing hot air out their mouths while trying to convince anyone with a minimum amount of brain cells left in their heads that it’s all THE OTHER GUY’S FAULT. Instead of spending who-knows-how-long coming up with creative insults, pumping your inflated chest or coming up with fake tears on TV, how about using that same creative energy and finding some kind of common ground with people who might be at least a LITTLE different than you? Then you’ll not only get my attention, you’ll also get my respect.

that letter well put for mr. Huston defending his view on the issue went too far by insulting Carla for exercising her free speech the same free speech huston was exercising. for the pannel that huston is up set about is just part of a story that is fiction for after all Marvel universe does try to make its teaders feel like the adventures are the characters if they werre reall for Marvel did not when doing the issue that huston was so upset about set out ot insult in his mind the tea baggers it was just a story cocidence . mr. huston should think that over next time he decides to be insutling when trying to get his point across like he was to Carla

This issue has gone on long enough. The writer of the comic has gone very publicly with his feelings about the state of politics. He has said that he did not write the background text or give instructions for it. I believe him. I believe that someone choose to provide some background scenery, and knowing the writer’s feeling, felt what was added was appropriate. That, in my mind, is that. Except for one thing, the response from people that should better.

Imagine, if you will, the writer had publicly known anti-Semitic or anti-homosexual feelings. What if the background sign said, “Jews Go Home” or “Homos go to Hell”? Many would claim offense and Marvel would be bending over backward to apologize, as they should. Many will attack this post, i am sure, saying this is completely different. It is not. Irrational, illogical hate is just that, no matter the target. However, before you attack, read the above posts. Everyone is making broad, sweeping attacks, as this type of hate-mongering usually works. Oh, it occurs on both sides of the political spectrum. However, one side of the argument has greater saturation of contact to the average American as the other. Before you begin yo accuse the members of the “Tea Parties” for being anything other than Americans seeking to have their voices heard, remember, these people seek to have their voices heard. They seek honest debate, not confrontation.
Finally, ChrisFlick, I sat all through the summer, watching meeting after meeting, where a sitting Senator or Representative basically refused to speak to constituents on even a basic level. I watched these elected officials lie to these peoples faces about what they were voting on. The attitude these hard-working Americans were receiving from these men and women that were asking them for their support was basically, “Sit down, shut up, and Open your wallets.” Frankly, I am surprised by the level of surprise that these people have had enough and are banding together to have their voices heard and the hate being thrown at them for speaking their minds.

Getting mad at a political pundit is like getting mad at a sports commentator.

Honestly, who cares what this guy thinks? I’d never even heard of him until 5 minutes ago … and I’ve already forgotten his name.

@ussescort:
I don’t think I would necessarily disagree with you in terms of hard-working Americans being frustrated by the “town hall” meetings this past summer. I wouldn’t disagree with you either about politicians essentially telling people to sit down, shut up and open your wallets. That we can agree on. But I will also say where you saw that, I also saw people being as disruptive as much as possible simply because they fell into the trap of “America’s becoming a Socialist country thanks to Obama” as well.

Quite often, we tend to only see what we want to see. Or what we agree with so maybe that’s just the case with both of us. I don’t know.

What we might also have difficulty agreeing to is the belief that politics have long ago ceased to really be ABOUT political beliefs. It’s about achieving power and doing everything you can to maintain that power. Your personal beliefs – or the beliefs of the people who elected you – be damned. And that goes across the board from Republicans to Democrats alike. It’s certainly not reserved for just one party.

If the Tea Party wants legitimacy, I don’t have a problem with that. Everyone has a right to their beliefs but every movement also has the right to be criticized as well – that’s the beauty of America. What I personally dislike – and distrust – about the Tea Party movement is it’s blatantly biased. It’s simply another branch of conservatism disguising itself as a grassroots, “for the people, by the people” organization when it’s anything but. It’s funded by right wing conservatives and it’s promoted by a right wing news organization.

Now, understand me when i say this: there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

I just don’t personally like the fact that they want to try and paint themselves as being something completely different. At least the Libertarian and Green parties try to have a mix of ALL political backgrounds… Democrats, Republicans and Independents. That’s really not the make up as I see it of the Tea Party. All I see is a group that has gotten pretty upset with a few Republicans but is by and large a very much anti-Democratic – and, more specifically, anti-Obama organization.

If they truly wanted their voices heard, if they truly wanted to debate, fine. But let’s do so without painting a black man in white face, calling him a Nazi and a Socialist. And I’m fully aware those that were passionately against the two wars we’re currently raging said similar things about President Bush as well – and now that he’s out of office, those passions don;t seem to be nearly as heated as they once were.

So, if people truly want to debate, fine. Let’s first start off by ending the insults and trying to find a common starting ground first. Unfortunately, debating in this country sort of goes like this:

I’m right and here’s why. And here’s an insult for you.

No, I’m right and you’re wrong. Here’s why. And here’s an even funnier, more biting insult for YOU.

Well, you’re an idiot.

And you’re stupid.

Blah

Blah

Blah

-Chris

So, if I’m reading this right…. Conservatives don’t read comics, they don’t watch TV, they don’t read books (other than the bible and all others they burn), they don’t go to movies and they don’t listen to popular music?

As a conservative, I do read comics. And now I feel that I have to swear a loyalty oath to President Obama in order to read a comic book. I am being belittled for my political beliefs. Tell me how that is American?

Well, now I no longer will buy Captain America in single issues or in trades. We don’t like being called ‘racists’ for opposing THIS President. And Mr. Quesda and Mr. Brubaker will have to pay a ECONOMIC price for their hatred of republicans.

In the words of then Senator Hillary Clinton. “I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you’re not patriotic! We should stand up and say, we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration!”

But then the president was a republican. Now since he’s a democrat and black. I guess that does make you UNPATRIOTIC! And in that case, if opposing President Obama is unpatriotic, then I wear it like a badge of honor! Something you libs will never know.

If you think I’m wrong… Robhorine@live.com BRING IT!

Blerg!

jsf is right. Proof once again why I try to avoid discussions like this.

Heck, I may have written two long posts about this subject but I don’t really care about this. I got way more important things to worry about like working on my web comic and my podcast but here I am… getting sucked into a needless, useless argument about politics on the web. Like any of these responses are gonna change someone’s mind in Congress or the White House.

:-)

-Chris

Again this argument would have merit IF the dude had actually read comics up to this point…stopping in 1986 leaves him woefully unprepared to speak intelligently here. Then he compounds it by attacking the medium.

Bill I disagree with your opinions from time to time but in this we are in total agreement. He could have valid points, but those are ultimately obscured by his pettiness and tone.

Then again what do I know, I am an uneducated, intellectually stilted American because I am a comic fan first.

Kudos to you Sir….and kudos to Carla because both of you took the high road here. Me? I would have used an expletive rant probably involving various parts of the anatomy. =)

“I’d argue he’d actually fit in better with the Australian Right.”

…See? The rightwingers were right after all. Obama *isn’t* an American-born citizen!

You people are the Problem with the World.
Who?! gives a Shit about any of this.
There is this thing called an Actual Life that some people have, it prohibits them from caring about silly crap like right wing bloggers, or a mistake in a C.A. comic.
Sheeesh.

FGJ…must have a lot of fiends…”I am so smart! I am so smart. S-M-R-T…”

Marvel’s been putting out liberal crap for years. Not surprising they feed into the MS-LSD slough. It’s a damn shame they took a swipe at the Tea Party. Everyday Americans who are sick of Big Government & liberalism. Not destroying property or stopping traffic – like every nutjob lib protest. Just gathering and getting their message out…respectfully. Seriously. Compare any Tea Party protest with any lib protest.

A complete uneducated & biased swipe…bravo, House of Cowardliness! Hey, how’d that anti-DC Deadpool variant go? Got some great PR there! You’re knocking them out of the park these days.

I like how people like Huston are the first to identify things that are ruining our country without first pointing the finger at themselves. All those pundits out there who do nothing but play partisan games (on both sides) aren’t exactly helping anything. The morons that contribute nothing but party-line bile only further the political partisanship that makes our government seem like a sporting event. They’re not interested in making the country better despite their claims to the contrary…they’re interested in seeing their “side” win. And it contributes to idiocy in our government when people play clownish games in order to get air-time on these ridiculous shows. It goes for Olbermann. It goes for Rush. It goes for Huston and everyone else. If you’re going to spew opinions, find a way to do it that contributes culturally. Say what you want about Brubaker, but at least his story is a story and not a partisan rant that leads us nowhere.

All these people talking about how the Tea Party is this movement based solely on independent Americans worried about financial matters is kidding themselves. This Tea Party movement started mere months after Obama took office, prior to the whole health care debate. While I am sure there are people who are upset mostly about deficit spending, a large group just hate Obama or liberals based on other reasons (religion, abortion, guns, hatred of liberalism, and for a small number: race). The idea that these are all completely apolitical persons driven to action is a farce. You take the traditional right wing single issuers out of the equation and I bet the number would drop substantially.

As for this issue, is it really that big a deal? If there was some crazy ALF style terrorist organization striking out in the name of animal rights….is it strange that people would look for them in animal rights rallies? Does that mean all animal rights people are terrorists? It’s the same for the Cap issue. The tea party was a backdrop to show the tone of the nation at the moment. The Watchdogs are an extreme group that the majority of people involved in that protest would not support…but the Watchdogs would support the protest, wouldn’t they? Just like the hypothetical ALF protestors? Or a militant anti-war/pro-immigration group?

And there are fringe groups, like the Watchdogs, that are alligned with the tea party movement. The vast majority of the folks there aren’t that extreme, but its not like this is a complete fiction made up wholesale by Brubaker. Stormfront and other groups attend these things because they share an ideology at anger at the government. The extremists just do it more forcefully.

Wow. Morons are still misrepresenting what happened “in story” and in the production of the issue.

Mr Detoc. Ock., please be more informed when sharing your opinion. Nowhere in the story are Tea partyiers or Replublicans or Democrats involved in any type of rally. It was a “fictional protest” by an unnamed group.

PLEASE stop giving this guy attention. There is a legitimate debate to be had over this comic, but more importantly the issues at larger, and he is not a part of it.

“In the words of then Senator Hillary Clinton. “I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you’re not patriotic! We should stand up and say, we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration!”

But then the president was a republican. Now since he’s a democrat and black. I guess that does make you UNPATRIOTIC! And in that case, if opposing President Obama is unpatriotic, then I wear it like a badge of honor! Something you libs will never know.”

Quotes like this make me scratch my head. I don’t think the majority of complaints against the Tea Partiers centers on a perceived lack of patriotism. It’s an attack on their beliefs as well as a questioning of their motives. But not their patriotism. This isn’t like the response to the anti-war dissent that went along the lines of “if you don’t support this, you don’t support America or you don’t support the troops.” Some of the anti-Tea Party rhetoric is strong, but I don’t see a majority of left-wing people calling Tea-Partiers “unpatriotic”.

On the other hand, the Tea Partiers are the ones routinely calling people “socialists” or suggesting the liberal government is ruining America, claiming to be patriots along the lines of our founding fathers.

So, if I’m reading this right…. Conservatives don’t read comics, they don’t watch TV, they don’t read books (other than the bible and all others they burn), they don’t go to movies and they don’t listen to popular music?

As a conservative, I do read comics. And now I feel that I have to swear a loyalty oath to President Obama in order to read a comic book. I am being belittled for my political beliefs. Tell me how that is American?

I have no idea what the hell you’re talking about.

Does it really matter what this guys says. All of marvels comics are gonna stink in 3 months anyway when heroic age starts. I don’t care about this guy’s stupid blog. I didn’t even know he was saying anything until CBR started posting links to his website!

All I care about are the comics and making sure there are good comics for me to read every week. Heroic Age is going to ruin all of that.

Here is the only problem I have with Carla Hoffman’s piece— Captain America 602 is obviously depicting teapartiers as racists. All of the other nonsense being discussed on this forum is obfuscating this central issue.
Marvel has decided to politicize one of the greatest characters in the history of comics. And what they did in Cap 602 is actually worse than politicizing. Brubaker is not content to just say that the other side is wrong. He had to say that the other side is racist. And that is why every conservative I know is pissed at Marvel right now.

This was fantastic. Thank you Bill.

I like tea and I like parties, I don’t like Tea Parties. Strange that.

I would like the comic book/graphic novel professional’s opinion on this matter like Dan Dido,Scott Mccloud, Erik Larsen, Joe Quesada, Stan Lee, etc. etc.

I don’t get any of this.

It’s not just that I’m on the other side of the pond to most of you but I read the issue and thought while it’s subject did seem a little dated there was nothing wrong with it.

As I saw it a ‘hick’ town is stirred up further by a bunch of right wing nutters, Cap’s going up against the nutters not the town.

What?

A gag about tea bagging? Grow the fuck up it was funny!

That last line was directed at the gags detractors, it’s late this side of the pond and I’ve been a little distracted.

Even though it’s obvious they’re lunatics to anyone not a lunatic, I think we need to re-assess the usefulness of the teabaggers to the economy.

Without them drawing Hitler mustaches on Obama photos, I’m pretty sure the Sharpie marker corporation would be in dire straits right now, given the Bush-created economy. That’s one less corporation getting bailout money! My hat’s off to you, baggers!

There are opportunities for non-Hitler mustache providers as well;

I’m positive any group of entrepreneurs willing to offer their services as a protest sign grammar and spelling checkers could make a bundle. Also think of the cash that could be made selling them eyedroppers full of genuine Glenn Beck crocodile tears.

This is just off the top of my head. C’mon people, if PT Barnum was able to become wealthy off of people like this, so can you!

Oops! I made a mistake in my sentence about grammar. Obviously my criticisms have been invalidated now!

Maybe next time.

I agree that its dumb these things get blown outa proportion and all, but still i cant help to think that stuff like this happend during the the last administration and nobody would say anything.

You brought the dead horse back to life just to try out an aluminum bat instead of the old Louisville Slugger?

Efforts are better suited to driving Greg Land out of comics until he learns not to trace anymore.

BTW even though I agree with Warner Todd Huston’s argument that Marvel has politicized Captain America, I strongly disagree with some of the rhetoric in his article (especially his thesis that comics cannot be high art).
The next question is who the f-ck is Warner Todd Huston? I have never heard of him… he doesn’t even have a Wikipedia page. So why is CBR giving this article headline status? I think that this is an attempt to pivot the controversy away from Marvel’s anti-conservative bias and onto some unknown wing-nut blogger who also happens to think that Islam should be illegal in the U.S.

I wish that people would just grow up and not take everything too seriously, it’s a comic written and drawn for light entertainment, I get sick of people making mountains out of mole hills.

DrDoom616 wrote:

“I wish that people would just grow up and not take everything too seriously, it’s a comic written and drawn for light entertainment, I get sick of people making mountains out of mole hills.”

I want my comics to be written and drawn for light entertainment. That’s why I’m pissed that Marvel is using Captain America as a vehicle for left-wing agitprop.

I really don’t see how this comic suggests that tea partiers are racist.

Let’s not forget that Sam Wilson is an individual character. Did it ever occur to anyone that “a black man from Harlem” would have certain perceptions of what a tea party protest would be like (we don’t get too many in NYC) and have reservations about “fitting in with a bunch of angry white folks.” So assuming that tea party protests are indeed welcoming environments for African-Americans (which I’m personally not so sure about, but have never been to one), can’t it be said that this statement may be a misconception on the part of the Falcon? Therefore Brubaker, with his great ability as a writer to resonate with the audience, is making a statement about the steep divide in our nation. Sam’s comments aren’t “good” or “bad” or “racist”, nor is the depiction of the tea partiers. It is merely an honest depiction of the current state of anger and miscommunication afflicting the country.

I think this speaks to a larger point that I believe often plagues artistic criticism. Just because a work of art is about something DOES NOT mean it either propagates or defames that thing. Brubaker writes characters with depth and internal conflict, which in turn adds realism and emotional resonance. Their thoughts, actions, and statements are not necessarily a referendum or a personal manifesto of the author. If you care to read Ed Brubaker’s work, I think you will give him more credit as an artist.

That having been said, If you think this comic is explicitly saying that the tea partiers are racist, maybe that is telling you something about your own views and perceptions.

Even though it’s obvious they’re lunatics to anyone not a lunatic, I think we need to re-assess the usefulness of the teabaggers to the economy.

Without them drawing Hitler mustaches on Obama photos, I’m pretty sure the Sharpie marker corporation would be in dire straits right now, given the Bush-created economy. That’s one less corporation getting bailout money! My hat’s off to you, baggers!

Well yes, it IS obvious that tea partiers are lunatics when you watch the liberal media selectively portray them as lunatics. Just like Obama supporters look like lunatics and cult members when you portray them selectively:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm1KOBMg1Y8

Well to be honest, a lot of Obama supporters actually ARE cultlike lunatics in real life, but that doesn’t diminish my points. If you are using liberal media like CNN, NY Times and network news to assess the average tea partiers, you are watching a source as unreliable as the youtube clip I provided.

Also, another ridiculous part of William George’s comment: liberals calling people nutjobs for painting Hitler mustaches on politicians at protests is the most hilarious unintentional irony ever.

http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/?p=612

A retrospective of Bush as Hitler posters and effigies from 8 years of Bush, compiled from around the web. Scan through them. I assume those were secretly “teabaggers” pretending to be liberals to discredit the left wing. Liberals decrying equating politicians with Hitler has as much credibility as a Bobby Brown drug PSA.

Please stop paying attention to Warner Todd Huston.

Dude! what’s wrong with Wolverine????? do i have to read Maus to signify quality and excelence in comics? what’s wrong with ultraviolence and over the top stories?

Other than that, a proper response to a person who doesn’t deserve one.

Ah, teabaggers and their poutrage. They’re not happy unless they’re crying about SOMETHING. ANYTHING. One only has to look at Sarah Palin to see that in action.

Par for the course, Warner Todd whatever-the-f*** your name is.

I seriously think your mantra is:

“If you can’t walk in another man’s shoes, make fun of either his shoes or his walk”

Your basic lack of understanding about the medium is both astounding and tedious, as is your willingness to keep running at a brick wall of a topic. You aren’t interested in dialogue, you’re interested in making a name for yourself. Tell me, how does that corporate d*** taste?

It’s all irrelevant. Marvel is on the downslide (just like Obama). As long as D.C. doesn’t have Green Lantern looking like an irresponsible liberal, I’m going to still enjoy comics.

Love the writing!
Well done.

Brother Justin Crowe

February 20, 2010 at 11:56 pm

Wow, Warner’s on YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ebybvhybt5w

This is the stupidest thing I’ve seen in…hold on, it will come to me…uh…

I think the really important part of that video is right in the corner where it says “83 views”.

I’m really disappointed that nobody has made an ‘Oh, what a lovely tea party’ joke.

SMKNL wrote:

“I really don’t see how this comic suggests that tea partiers are racist.

Let’s not forget that Sam Wilson is an individual character. Did it ever occur to anyone that “a black man from Harlem” would have certain perceptions of what a tea party protest would be like (we don’t get too many in NYC) and have reservations about “fitting in with a bunch of angry white folks.” So assuming that tea party protests are indeed welcoming environments for African-Americans (which I’m personally not so sure about, but have never been to one), can’t it be said that this statement may be a misconception on the part of the Falcon? Therefore Brubaker, with his great ability as a writer to resonate with the audience, is making a statement about the steep divide in our nation. Sam’s comments aren’t “good” or “bad” or “racist”, nor is the depiction of the tea partiers. It is merely an honest depiction of the current state of anger and miscommunication afflicting the country.

I think this speaks to a larger point that I believe often plagues artistic criticism. Just because a work of art is about something DOES NOT mean it either propagates or defames that thing. Brubaker writes characters with depth and internal conflict, which in turn adds realism and emotional resonance. Their thoughts, actions, and statements are not necessarily a referendum or a personal manifesto of the author. If you care to read Ed Brubaker’s work, I think you will give him more credit as an artist.”

Brubaker has exhibited a pattern of anti-conservative bias in his work for a long time now. And we know that Brubaker holds these sort of anti-conservative views because we have seen similar sentiments on his Twitter page.
Sam Wilson calling the teapartiers racist is akin to Captain America looking at Pres. Obama, and saying “Boy, I don’t think I could fit in with these Socialists” If we use your logic this would be OK because it is an accurate depiction of how some older white people might view Pres. Obama. But Brubaker would never write a scene like that. And I am glad that Brubaker would never write a scene like that because I don’t want superheroes to become mouthpieces for agitprop– Right OR Left.
If there is one Marvel character who should not be politicized it is Cap. But that is exactly what Brubaker has done. When Bush was in power, the bad guys in CA were the people in the government. Now that Obama is in power, the bad guys are the people protesting the government. The message here is unmistakable.

I don’t see where Mr. Huston was wrong. Its a well known and accepted fact that the Comic Companies are in fact VERY LIBERAL! Nothing in his initial posting or his response was wrong. We are constantly bombarded with these perspectives. And the over the top reaction by the fans to his words is at best laughable, and at worst plain stupid. The rampart liberalism in comics shows thru and thru. Just look at all the characters killed off in the last few years to be replaced by non selling minorities. Firestorm. Blue Beetle. The Question is replaced by a Latino woman who is a lesbian. Wow the hat trick. I remember a whole JLA issue dedicated to not supporting the president. Of course since Luthor was the president this was ok. But you got the underlying meaning. The Watchdogs have been around in Marvel Comics for a long time. They are linked to the Red Skull, formerly funded by his organization in fact. So why the throwaway comparison to the tea party? This pushing of agendas is whats caused the comics industry to reach the pathetic numbers that they have today. Enjoy them while you can. In five years they wont exist.

I hate Right-Wing psychos.

That being said I’m a fairly conservative person. But what I can’t stand is the ignorance that exudes from both sides of any political debate. Going through these posts I see people beginning to take shots at each others chosen political affiliations. I myself haven’t had the opportunity to read this issue of Cap, I’m a poor college student and I’ve had to stop buying comics :(, I probably would have just read this issue and said hm good issue of Cap, not OMG I SOOOO OFFENDED.

And here is a little factoid, I’m from the South, and I for one will say this from my own personal experiences with “conservative right-wing people”, Um some of you are Racist Backwards Ignorant morons, and there are plenty of people who are left-wing who are ignorant morons who some of them are what they are accused of being also, but because Brubaker is liberal he isn’t going to attack that side of the lake, its just a fact. So crazy right-wing people, are you mad because you think this portrayal of “hick towns” is false? Or are you mad because it is fairly accurate?

This is the world we live in, people will never agree to disagree. I personally am tired of it. I’ve had people straight up call me an idiot for just registering Republican, and if I had registered Democrat others would’ve done the same, they didn’t know my political opinions they didn’t know me but they were mean to me for absolutely no reason. So I probably won’t have anything to do with politics any longer, Politics make me so angry I want to bash my skull in.

Politics suck ass, and everyone is an asshole when it comes to them.

Anyway, Mr. Reed, I think your open letter is a very well composed and intelligent response to this Warner person. I hate people like him, he is ignorant, just like Rush Limbaugh who dislike with a burning raging fire of hate. Its sad because every once in awhile they may actually have something intelligent to say but because they are so full of ignorance and hate the intelligence that maybe just for an ity-bity little second may have been there is destroyed same goes for crazy left wing peoples. You can’t be a pot calling the kettle black it goes both ways and politics is the darkest dirtiest load of bullshit there is.

The wingnuts have really been coming out of the woodwork recently. You must be doing something right, Mr. Reed.

well written blog post.

“Please stop paying attention to Warner Todd Huston”

Smartest thing said yet. Howard Stern once pointed out that half is audience is people that love him and the other half are people that hate him. When you give someone attention whether it’s Michael Moore, Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, Keith Olbermann etc etc. you are basically helping them by talking about them with others. I read these posts, I doubt that many of us knew, or cared, who Warner Todd Huston was, but heck you all do now.

I find it interesting how this has become a political discussion very quickly. Defenses of or attacks against the ‘Tea Party Movement’ have replaced conversation about the content of the comic or the dialogue Mr. Houston has had with fellow bloggers.

I’m going to ignore the argument for or against the Tea Party movement and talk about the comic.

The Watchdogs were created, the first time around, when I was a kid by then Cap-writer Mark Gruenwald as part of a storyline in which Steve Rogers had been fired and a jarhead type had been given the job of Captain America in his place because the government wanted a super-flunky. The Watchdogs were specifically designed to be analogous to several different groups: the KKK and other hate groups, domestic terrorists of white separatist motivations, and a satire of the Moral Majority. Gruenwald, during his entire Cap run, made political satire a central tenet of the book: as a libertarian with neither a true liberal or true conservative bias, he raked EVERYONE over the coals. The general message of the book was anti-authoritarian and pro-individualist.

The Watchdogs were set in the South and given a definite connection to some of the more negative Southern stereotypes regarding religion and morality but were not overtly racist. Nor was overt racism a theme in the current story. There was a subtle racial theme in that Captain America’s black sidekick was lynched by the Watchdogs, but this was for his undercover role as a porn filmmaker, not his race.

My biggest objection to this story was not its portrayal of the Tea Bag types (they showed the Tea Bag movement, demonstrated the Falcon and Bucky reacting to it in ways entirely in character, and then moved on to the real story) or to the bar scene. If read at face value, in context, there’s nothing to complain about.

My objection is that the bar scene is totally recycled from the original appearance of the Watchdogs way back when I was a kid. The Cap is not Steve Rogers, the sidekick is black, the black sidekick is undercover in a role deliberately designed to antagonize the villains and show Captain America in a light that will allow him to infiltrate them, and the scene in which the stage their faux conflict is entirely derivative of the original from when I was a kid. It’s a recycled scenario with nothing new in it. To paraphrase a writer long gone, it wasn’t writing it was stenography.

That bothers me a lot more than offensive political content I consider manufactured by someone looking to make noise.

Thomas Narcejac, you talked earlier about how everyone is “obfuscating the central issue” that “Captain America #602″ clearly portrays Tea Party protestors as racist. I disagree, and in fact I think the obfuscating comes from the other side. This whole argument has boiled out of a misreading of the text by Mr. Huston. When you calm down and look objectively, just at the script of the issue – no political commentary, no additions, just plain presentation of the actual source material behind the conflict – you’ll see that the better part of a page is spent making it clear that the ordinary civilian “anti-tax protestors” are just ordinary law-abiding people, quite distinct from the white supremacist militia villains, The Watchdogs. Huston fluffed up his reading and assumed both entities were one in the same.

But once this was pointed out to him, rather than merely acknowledging his error, Huston went for the scorched earth approach, pointing fingers and throwing insults. It’s him and the people on his sides who have done everything but address the actual script. They’ve turned this into a political debate, made it about Liberals VS Conservatives when it wasn’t before. Huston deliberately muddied the waters of the argument, by taking the seperate questions of whether Marvel has estbalished left-wing bias (it does) and whether this particular issue presents the Tea Party movement as a group of racist supervillains (it does not), and forcing the conclusion that Marvel being guilty on one count makes them guilty on both.

Did everyone forget the bullshit conversation between Wolverine and Spider-Man in an issue of Amazing Spider-Man where Wolverine commented that “It took us eight years to get the last guy out of office”, followed by a fist bump from Spidey? Guess I missed that secret Marvel storyline where George Bush was worse than Magneto, Kingpin, Doom, Thanos, etc. But then again the 9/11 issue of Amazing Spider-Man basically blamed America for 9/11 (“WE DIDN’T LISTEN”) and even had Doctor Fucking Doom crying. Remember kids, don’t talk bad about Obama because then you get labled an evil filthy racist (because only white people can be racist, right?).

“When I read the Cap issue in question I was offended by the depiction of the tea partiers as racists and idiots.”

The truth hurts, doesn’t it Chuck D? Ph, and the REAL Chuck D (the guy from Public Enemy) would appreciate it if you’d stop besmirching his good name.

Rob said: “As a conservative, I do read comics. And now I feel that I have to swear a loyalty oath to President Obama in order to read a comic book. I am being belittled for my political beliefs. Tell me how that is American? ”

Hey Rob, how about those loyalty screenings people had to take to hear Bush speak during the 2004 campaign? Care to tell me how THAT was American? Unlike your delusional, irrational fears, what I just described actually happened. Obama never did anything like that.

Vic said: “Guess I missed that secret Marvel storyline where George Bush was worse than Magneto, Kingpin, Doom, Thanos, etc. ”

Well, unlike all those other people Bush is (sadly) REAL. Given how he made the country less safe from attack, threw us into a costly war (both in human lives and in dollars) that had nothing to do with the perps of 9/11 (interesting how he didn’t take action against the Saudis, who have had a long, close history with the Bush family), squandered the previous leader’s eight years of peace and prosperity for America and lead the country’s economy to its greatest collapse since The Great Depression, social programs got axed, schools suffered, and CEOs were allowed to reap great profits while working Americans lost their jobs, I’d have to say yeah… Bush (and Cheney and Rove and their ilk) IS worse than all those fictional characters you mentioned.

The man is brain dead, Bill. He is even more bigoted than the bigots he imagines hide under every bed, including his own. Your civility in the face of his intellectual barbarism is like Neville Chamberlain’s attempts to appease a certain WWII idiot with a bad haircut. Knee-jerk conservatism is best left to froth and thrash in its own diseased corner. His manic demonisation of liberals would be laughable if it wasn’t somehow so ugly. He’s the man with a pitchfork and torch ready to run the stranger out of town for being different. He lives in fear of everything that doesn’t conform to his sad little world. Best leave him rocking in his chair, bitter and wild-eyed on his porch.

“Sam Wilson calling the teapartiers racist is akin to Captain America looking at Pres. Obama, and saying “Boy, I don’t think I could fit in with these Socialists”

Sam Wilson never calls the teapartiers racist, that’s the whole point. And Brubaker would never write a scene like the one you describe because it would amount to a total mischaracterization.

It’s interesting that tea party supporters are being so defensive against being accused of racism in response to a relatively benign quote that doesn’t explicitly accuse anyone of racism. Remember, the protesters are really a backdrop to this story, not the central villains, who are a separate group.

I believe this speaks to an unwillingness to address the undercurrent (not necessarily widespread or overt) of racism in their movement. Before you jump all over me, I am NOT saying all tea partiers are racist, I don’t think they are. But it’s hard to deny the constant occurrence of racist sentiment that finds its way into these events (or out of the mouths of Glen Beck and other tea party leaders) and it seems like the tea partiers are spending more time attacking anyone who points this out then looking honestly at the issue.

I do an interview with Mr Huston on the Captain America Archives episode 23 – search for it on the iTunes store or at http://bwhancock.libsyn.com

‘I’d have to say yeah… Bush (and Cheney and Rove and their ilk) IS worse than all those fictional characters you mentioned.’

This brings up an interesting point that was lost in the 90s (and began to be undermined in the 1980s, when John Byrne began to portray Dr. Doom in a manner quite reminiscent of the crazier Roman emperors), when Marvel ran their storylines about political unrest about Latveria in a manner not entirely in line with what had come before it.

Jack Kirby and Stan Lee were very careful in a lot of the early work that Dr. Doom, evil would be conqueror of the world and titanic jackass or not, had some excellent qualities. He was opposed to racism, religious oppression the kind of fanatical theo-political nationalism or pan-nationalism expressed respectively by Nazism or Communism. His people had great education and health care and almost no crime and Latveria itself was represented as something of a successful utopian state suggesting that the problem wasn’t what would happen IF Doom took over the world but rather the damage was done by his unhealthy desire to do so.

There is a short story in a prose anthology about Marvel bad guys I’ve always liked… I can’t remember the title, sadly, of either the anthology or the story itself. Basically, Doom succeeds in killing the Avengers and Fantastic Four and taking over the world. He then spends ALL his time fighting off alien invaders and supervillains who won’t knuckle under, becoming something very like a superhero in defending ‘his’ people and ‘his’ world. Very Miracleman-ish sort of superhero, but still. Doom suffers a lot more from ruling the world than the people of the world, who do very well under him.

In that sense, Bush and Cheney /were/ ‘worse’ than Doom in a very key way: they didn’t take care of ‘their’ people.

I like how in Huston’s own video of a tea party http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRNO-z1gG_c I only saw one perhaps two people in the thing that weren’t white (until the end when he showed other protesters who weren’t teabaggers). This was held in Chicago which is less than 42% white http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Chicago#Population

I don’t think it is unreasonable for a black person to say that they might have trouble fitting in with that group…

This is something that annoys me. We have this guy, Warner Todd Huston, who rails against ALL OF US because of ONE PAGE he sees in a comic book that he obviously doesn’t read and what do we do? Trash Bush? Trash Conservatives? Come on, this is lame.

This is a guy who is attacking comics AND the readers and what are we doing? Acting like stupid liberals and Conservatives. The basic fact is conservatives DO get insulted a lot on these comics boards. It’s popular to trash us like it was popular to trash Bush. But that isn’t why we are here, is it? I don’t care if someone doesn’t like my politics. I have my own opinions and I form them from the information I seek out. I don’t care if someone is a liberal and I don’t care why they formed their opinions. The only thing I care about is what comics do you read and why do you like them.

I’m offended by what Warner Todd Huston has said. He attacked comics fans as being stupid liberals while claiming to be a conservative. The reality is this guy acts more like a far right wing nut job like Ann Coulter than someone who’s content with voicing their opinion like Sean Hannity. I’m conservative. I’m a registered Independent though because I don’t always agree with the Republicans or the Democrats.

All I’m trying to say is stop this stupid ‘Bush this” and “Obama that” garbage because that doesn’t have a place here. This is about WTH not those guys, like them or not.

Here is my answer to this dumbass! Hope it makes you feel as good as I felt while I was writing it! I was in no way interested in writing a highly elaborate letter as I knew that ANY way I might write it,the bastard would take it down just to show how great he is (Or more to the point THINK he is!!LOL)

My dear sir,
From both side of the fence (Even IF I am not an american,there is ALWAYS 2 sides of a fence in ANY political avenues)there are always people like you that think so highly of them that they feel they know it all,have all the right answers,manipulate facts to better prove they are right and think that anyone who disagree with them are idiots or any other likely distinction you might want to give them showing you are better than they are!

I could go on and on but why not cut to the chase since it seems that other people have tried writing you intelligent responses but your answers always go the way of I know better,am more intelligent than you,will NOT consider just for a moment that I MIGHT be wrong….
So even if I MIGHT not be as litterate as you are(Or think you are!?!?And by the way if all you have to say about my letter is how illiterate I am just so you know I am french canadian but I suppose we are by definition idiots since our spoken language is not english but french! )I am one of the blue collar community here in canada and we tend to go right to the point instead of saying or writing a lot of things(Did I just did that??? Bummer!LOL),to hide behind words or carefully constructed sentences to better be insulting against our opponent but doing so in a coy,hypocrite way (And boy!! I sometimes,like right now,find it as enjoyable as being coy because yes I CAN be coy but NO don’t feel right now the need to do so just thinking that somebody as high strung as you are will probably be more angry with the way I will address what I think YOU are mister).Sooo here we go,ready??
You are a self-centered know-it-all nombrilistic idiot!!!
Saying more than this is a waste of time and I think I’ve just waste more than enough time with you as it is! Hope you are happy in your little imaginary corner of the world where you are always right!
Friendly yours!! Daniel

I’ve read several blog posts about this and lots of blog comments. After reading through it, the only thing I can say for certain is that 98% of blog commentors are liberals/leftists/Democrats/Progressives. It’s quite the echo chamber.

As you can see Ice,I am in the other 2% since I am from Quebec,Canada!!! A french-speaking city by the way,LOL!!! But you know what? Even us canadians can spot a dumbass,high strung asshole (like Mr.Warner Todd Huston) when we see one!!
Daniel

And I’m from Scotland, ice. No friend of liberals or conservatives. (Hmmm… your theory is falling apart at the seams me thinks.) Like Daniel, my reaction is against a man whose soul is zipped up tight from the soles of his feet to the tip of his head. The only positive thing to say about him is that he’s got the Internet abuzz. He would have been a star prosecutor during the McCarthy trials. “Those damn lefties are poluttin’ our culture, poisoning the minds of our children, and sleeping with our women!!!” Spare me.

ice wrote

“I’ve read several blog posts about this and lots of blog comments. After reading through it, the only thing I can say for certain is that 98% of blog commentors are liberals/leftists/Democrats/Progressives. It’s quite the echo chamber.”

No kidding. I suspect that the comic book reading community is pretty much split evenly between conservatives and liberals. Unfortunately, from what I have read lately, the comic book reviewing/ blogging community is almost 100% liberal.

“As you can see Ice,I am in the other 2% since I am from Quebec,Canada!!! A french-speaking city by the way,”

Oh, yes, how could I have been so blind.

Or maybe 100% of the comic book reviewing/blogging community think WTH and his views of comics are completely bunk.

SMKNL wrote:

“Sam Wilson never calls the teapartiers racist, that’s the whole point. And Brubaker would never write a scene like the one you describe because it would amount to a total mischaracterization.

It’s interesting that tea party supporters are being so defensive against being accused of racism in response to a relatively benign quote that doesn’t explicitly accuse anyone of racism.”

The key word being “explicitly”. Brubaker is obviously implying that the teapartiers are racists. And does it really surprise anyone that teapartiers would be defensive about such a charge? It’s like accusing someone of being in the Ku Klux Klan and then saying “what are you getting so upset about?”
It’s one thing to disagree with someone over policy, but it’s another thing altogether to portray the people you disagree with as monsters. ESPECIALLY in a comic like Captain America which should champion America, not one half of America.

JokerSoze wrote:

“Thomas Narcejac, you talked earlier about how everyone is “obfuscating the central issue” that “Captain America #602″ clearly portrays Tea Party protestors as racist. I disagree, and in fact I think the obfuscating comes from the other side. This whole argument has boiled out of a misreading of the text by Mr. Huston. When you calm down and look objectively, just at the script of the issue – no political commentary, no additions, just plain presentation of the actual source material behind the conflict – you’ll see that the better part of a page is spent making it clear that the ordinary civilian “anti-tax protestors” are just ordinary law-abiding people, quite distinct from the white supremacist militia villains, The Watchdogs. Huston fluffed up his reading and assumed both entities were one in the same.”

So the question is– Why does Sam Wilson say that he would not be welcomed by such a group? If he is not referring to race, what is he referring to?

What I find the most absurd about some posts are the complaints that Marvel has “politicized” Captain America, and now Conservatives are going to boycott Marvel.

Captain America has been “politicized” at least since the early 1970s, when Steve Englehart made Richard Nixon into a supervillain and the 1950s Captain America into a separate character: an insane, cruel, anti-communist bigot that isn’t the “real” Cap any longer.

Captain America was “politicized” when Mark Gruenwald created characters like the Watchdogs and Flag-Smasher in the 1980s. Captain America was “politicized” when J. M. de Matteis created one of the first gay supporting characters in Marvel Comics and made Cap into his supporter and the Red Skull into a homophobe.

I wonder, was there ever a time when Captain America wasn’t politicized?

Even Ultimate Captain America jab at France was an instance of policized comics, though that Captain America is a Conservative, unlike the 616 version of the character, whom has been depicted for 30 years as a Liberal.

If you’re under 35 and make a point of avoiding politicized comics, what are even doing reading Captain America in the first place?

thomas narcejac, let’s look at what is explicit in what Brubaker is saying and keep it in context of the story. The Falcon is raising this idea while he and Bucky are devising a plan to infiltrate the Watchdogs. Falcon expresses concern over the plan saying, “I don’t exactly see a black man from Harlem fitting in with a bunch of angry white folks…”

“Monsters” and “Racists” are YOUR words, not Brubakers. How is it obvious that he is implying the teapartiers are racist, and how are they portrayed as monsters? They are in exactly three panels of the whole issue, don’t fit into the plot, and are drawn holding signs taken from ACTUAL tea party protests (lettering mistake or not). Remember, it is the Watchdogs that are the villains in this issue, not the protesters.

thomas narcejac, Sam Wilson wouldn’t be welcomed by such a group because he was referring to the Watchdogs, the topic of his and Bucky’s discussion, and the Watchdogs are an extremist militia. Read the book man.

The tea party is a fractured group with no central leadership and they shouldn’t be indicted as a whole for the actions of a few. However, there are real white supremacist groups and militias in this country and they have been a presence within in some iterations of the tea party. These groups are wrongly attempting to take advantage of the populist sentiment sweeping through the nation and use it for their own ends. So, IMO, Brubaker is vilifying these groups (the militia/watchdogs not the protesters) not only for their actions and rhetoric, but for the way they are tainting legitimate political concerns and protests.

Thomas Narcejac, as the others have said, the “angry white folks” Falcon is referring to are the Watchdogs, who Falcon and Captain America are discussing their plans to infiltrate. Of course Falcon is going to have trouble fitting in with hardcore white supremacists such as the Watchdogs. It just so happens they’re having this conversation in a street scene, amidst the “anti-tax protest”.

The protestors have the bad luck of being a backdrop to an unrelated conversation about racist militia. As such, Warner Todd Huston misread the scene and thought the racist militia Falcon and Captain America were talking about weren’t the Watchdogs, but were in fact the protestors in this street scene.

I think Warner Todd Huston has a reading disorder or something. I took a glance at his review of Watchmen, just out of curiosity, and he thought the statue in the graveyard, seen during the Comedian’s funeral, was the Statue of Liberty. There are simple mistakes and then there is an inability to understand what’s on the page. There are other instances of him not understanding elements within the story and making vast assumptions to fill in these gaps of confusion, but the graveyard statue was just the best example.
So it won’t matter what responces anyone sends to this guy, he’ll just read whatever he wants to see in the text. It’s all an anti-liberal Mad Lib for him.
It’s kind of sad, actually.

SMKNL and JokerSoze:

Here is the panel in question—

http://www.boiseweekly.com/images/blogimages/2010/01/25/1264457273-ishot-26.jpg

Sam “the Falcon” Wilson is clearly saying that there is some reason he would not get along with teapartiers. While saying this he mentions race twice in one sentence. Naturally, I would assume he’s saying he would not be accepted because he is a Black man. If anyone has a different interpretation of that dialogue I would be intrigued to here it.
BTW Even if this wasn’t a slur against conservatives, it is certainly exploiting racial sensitivities. Can anyone imagine a scene where Captain America is looking at a group of Acorn employees, making similar comments about their racial makeup. Can you imagine Cap saying “I can’t see a white man like me fitting in with a bunch of angry black folks” Everyone on this web site would object to a scene like that (including myself). So why is it okay to stereotype conservatives?

You still aren’t getting it, Thomas.

Falcon isn’t saying “he would not get along with teapartiers”. He is saying he would not get along with a white supremacist supervillain group with a longstanding history of hardcore racism – The Watchdogs. I do not think it is unreasonable or politically charged to suggest that a black man isn’t going to fit in with a racist terrorist militia.

The confusion comes here because you are taking a single panel out of context, and not showing the whole page that comes before where you see it is not the teapartiers being discussed, but the Watchdogs – a quite seperate group, established by Marvel as supervillains and Captain America bad guys back in 1987. The “angry white folks” aren’t the people shown in that panel – they are just window dressing in the street scene. The “angry white folks” comment is a run-on sentence from the conversation about this distinct, seperate group on the previous page.

I really don’t know how much clearer I can make this, short of transcribing the whole script for the duration of this scene.

After reading this and WTH’s responses, I have come to the conclusion that any time one debates with an extreme conservative that their responses always boil down to “No, YOU”. It’s like a 4th grade playground argument-point out that they are being rude and it’s “No, YOU!!”. You can basically punch that response in for anything you say.
Oh, I’m sure there’s plenty of liberals who use the same tactic, but still, it’s definitely a conservative thing and WTH has it down to a science.

I hate bipartisan politics, it’s always more us vs. them rather than working to get real results.

I get what you’re saying, badspock, and I understand the frustration. But still, I’d avoid calling such behaviour a “conservative thing”. If we start responding with “You Conservatives!”, then we’re playing the game Warner Todd Huston wants us to play. My problem isn’t with the Republican party, or Conservative beliefs. It’s about a singlle curmudgeony hack and his childish, petty behaviour.

Why do Americans on opposite sides of politics (Republicans and Democrats) always feel the need to refer to each other as ‘enemies’ or someone they ‘hate’? People shouldn’t hate each other because they don’t agree. Disagreeing is the point; by working together and compromising you achieve something better than one side could produce on it’s own.

Political parties should be in competition but should hope to never truly win. Only by continuously testing your ideas against the standards of those that don’t agree with them can you hope to arrive at something that is good for everyone. Partisan politics are ruining this country.

Warner Todd Huston is an ill tempered, close-minded, talentless right wing bully (see e.g., Bill O’Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Shaun Hannity, etc.). Trying to reason with these hateful, vitriolic people is a waste of precious time and words. Their opinions are formed by their hardened ideology and there is little point in even trying to reason with them.

All I can say is that, albeit I agree with you (specially on the paragraph previous to your summation), opposing politics with superheroe’s comicbooks sounds like we’re totally nuts.

I will preface my comment by saying that I do consider myself a conservative, more of a moderate conservative, but a conservative nonetheless. When I first read Cap #602 I thought it was a little low of Brubaker, but I know Brubaker’s politics and how left wing he is, not to mention how right he always seems to think he is. Did the panel in question bother me? No, not at all, and even Sam’s reaction to the whole thing was perfectly in his character. I could see where outside people could be offended, especially because you would never see anything attacking any sort of liberal idea like that. I just think that anything of this sort should belong in a mainstream comic book and the fact that there was even a political argument over a comic book is what bothered me most about all of this.

Now I venture here and read this open letter and read that Huston dude’s response to the other piece. To be quite honest, this guy is an embarrassment and shows what is wrong with both sides of the argument. All of these political commentators when threatened just decide to insult the intelligence and integrity of the other side to justify their thoughts. Both the left and right do this and it is a complete joke, and really makes anybody look like an idiot. The way he goes on about how he has read comics and then goes ahead and talks about how they aren’t a legitimate art form is ridiculous because it just makes him sound like he has no idea what he is talking about. Then he goes on to pretty much generalize all comic book readers as stupid liberals. That angered me, because I am in no way a liberal and his generalizing is just as bad as the Cap comics generalizing of all the tea party people. He then goes on to say that comics are lowest common denominator entertainment. Once again he feels cornered and starts bashing the other side to make it’s argument seem less viable. This angered me, because as an educated comic book fan I can really appreciate the amazing artistic ability that comes with creating comic books and the continually complex, engaging, socially relevant stories that come from our medium. I don’t think the guy realizes that comic book fans are probably the most well read people out there. His statement about picking up a real book is all the more absurd, as I am sure %95 of us read %1000 more books than %95 of the rest of the population. I felt deeply insulted by reading what the p.o.s. internet blogger had to say.

I would LOVE to sit down and have a discussion with this guy, so I can point out just how stupid he really sounds. With me believing in a lot of what he believes in, he would have no grounds to attack my intelligence or reasoning. I think with my Political Science degree I would be able to hold my own pretty decently while making this guy look like a fool in the process. Remember… I think this way while having a lot of conservative ideals (i am not a far right nut job don’t worry), so I can’t imagine what this looks like to you liberals out there.

Just another stupid situation that will continue to divide our country between left and right…

JokerSoze wrote:

“You still aren’t getting it, Thomas.

Falcon isn’t saying “he would not get along with teapartiers”. He is saying he would not get along with a white supremacist supervillain group with a longstanding history of hardcore racism – The Watchdogs. I do not think it is unreasonable or politically charged to suggest that a black man isn’t going to fit in with a racist terrorist militia.

The confusion comes here because you are taking a single panel out of context, and not showing the whole page that comes before where you see it is not the teapartiers being discussed, but the Watchdogs – a quite seperate group, established by Marvel as supervillains and Captain America bad guys back in 1987. The “angry white folks” aren’t the people shown in that panel – they are just window dressing in the street scene. The “angry white folks” comment is a run-on sentence from the conversation about this distinct, seperate group on the previous page.

I really don’t know how much clearer I can make this, short of transcribing the whole script for the duration of this scene.”

If your theory is correct, then why did Brubaker say this– “The signs (are) being changed to something more generic for the trade reprint, because I and my editor were both shocked to see it.”
If the Tea Partiers were ancillary to the racist plot line, then why did Brubaker and Quesada both feel the need to apologize and express their outrage at the offensive Tea Party panel? Why would Brubaker assert that the letterer had made a terrible mistake and that there would be a correction in the second printing and the trade? Apparently Brubaker and Quesada both agree that the published story is offensive.

FunkyGreenJerusalem

February 21, 2010 at 9:59 pm

Just remember to those few, sad souls defending Warner-Todd – he thinks comics are for morons.

Thus, he thinks you are a moron.

Even though you agree with him.

We should all be banding together against the guy who hates comics, because comics rule!

But before we unify on the basis of comics…

FGJ…must have a lot of fiends…”I am so smart! I am so smart. S-M-R-T…”

Enough to get by.

Probably because I actually take time to point out why I disagree with someone, or think they’re an idiot, rather than just make it one line in a nonsensical post.

Not destroying property or stopping traffic – like every nutjob lib protest.

Really?
How many lef-twing protests in your country have led to property destruction?

Because if it isn’t 100%, you just come across as the sort of one sided idiot I was accusing the morons of the tea-party movement to be.

And it has to be in your country, because I know violence or destruction, is a rarity at any Australian protest.

A complete uneducated & biased swipe…bravo, House of Cowardliness!

As you obviously don’t buy the, quite likely, story it was a production error, how are they cowards?
According to you they are standing up to the most popular view of what needs to be done in the US… that doesn’t sound too cowardly.

Marvel has decided to politicize one of the greatest characters in the history of comics. And what they did in Cap 602 is actually worse than politicizing. Brubaker is not content to just say that the other side is wrong. He had to say that the other side is racist. And that is why every conservative I know is pissed at Marvel right now.

Ummm…. Captain America stopped being Capt. America for awhile after it was revealed the president (Nixon) was the mastermind behind an evil conspiracy… and so CA considered him a terrorist, and quit.
That was in ’74.
Guess conservatives are a little behind the times.
Who knew?

I want my comics to be written and drawn for light entertainment. That’s why I’m pissed that Marvel is using Captain America as a vehicle for left-wing agitprop.

It’s Captain America – at which point wasn’t he a political character?
He’s been anti-nazi, anti-communist, anti-Nixon… why shouldn’t he be against Tea-baggers who want to start a revolution against an elected President?

(And that last one’s ignoring the fact that the tea party were never meant to be implicated in the comic, but why bother with facts when you can have a conspiracy? And I thought it was the left who had the conspiracy theories? What happens when the right finds out about DMZ?)

The rampart liberalism in comics shows thru and thru. Just look at all the characters killed off in the last few years to be replaced by non selling minorities.

Wowsers.

So an accurate showing of minorities in superhero books is ‘rampart liberalism’?

Showing heroes other than white heroes is rampart liberalism?

(Oh, and The Question, Blue Beetle, Firestorm, and the Atom (you forgot!) weren’t selling when they were white men).

FunkyGreenJerusalem

February 21, 2010 at 10:00 pm

Why would Brubaker assert that the letterer had made a terrible mistake and that there would be a correction in the second printing and the trade? Apparently Brubaker and Quesada both agree that the published story is offensive.

Because it specified a particular group, when they didn’t want one, and people from that group were highly offended by it?

If they didn’t want it there in the first place, why wouldn’t they remove it?

I just wrote him an email and I thought I would share exactly what I wrote with you all…\

“Mr. Huston,

My name is John Ernenputsch and I am a 23 year old comic book fan. From the way your article portrays us comic book fans, you would probably assume that I am an uneducated, nut job liberal that just enjoys his little kiddie comic books. In reality, this is the farthest thing from the truth. I actually have a lot more in common with you than you think. I am a registered Republican who enjoys my Glenn Beck and takes issue with a lot of what the current administration is trying to push through the legislature and onto the American people. I actually believe in a lot of what the Tea Party Movement stands for. I am also not one of those crazy right wingers that come off as highly uneducated and hateful. I graduated from The University of California Irvine in 2008 with a double major in Cognitive Science and Political Science. At a liberal leaning California college a lot of my beliefs were challenged and yet I left even more conservative than I was when I was a 17 year old freshman. To say that your opinion piece, in response to the open letter found on CBR, bothered me is a severe understatement.

To say this as bluntly as possible, you are an embarrassment. I am embarrassed at being a conservative after reading this. In this article you are doing exactly what people like Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow do every night on their television show; you attack the people who disagree with you by trying to demean and ridicule them. Instead of trying to study, and figure out why something like the Captain America issue would bring out so many emotions in so many people, you just generalize and attack. What makes what you did any better than what Ed Brubaker did? Both you and the comic book took a group of people and generalized. In fact, this is exactly what racists do, and they are exactly what people took issue with in the book. It just doesn’t make sense to me at all.

You also discuss how comics are low brow entertainment and lowest common denominator fun. This is just an attack on the people who don’t agree with you, and despite you talking like it is fact, you are nowhere close to the truth. If you believe that Watchmen was nothing but liberal propaganda then you don’t know what is really going on in the book. It is a complete deconstruction of the superhero archetype that makes the book a classic. There is more character depth found in those 12 issues than most “real books” found today. Graphic novels such as Maus (by Art Spiegelman) are absolutely relevant, engaging, and serious stories that rival some of the best prose stories around. Even more general superhero comics are so deep and written for adults today that I was able to take a superhero class in college. The idea of heroes and villains are as old as can be and this low brow form of entertainment has taken ideas as old as man and have refreshed the idea and tell them in ways never before seen. These are the same books that have helped cultivate my ideals and made me the person I am today. At a young age Spiderman taught me that “With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility.” Then you have Superman who is an alien that fights for “Truth Justice and the American Way.” The last one especially hits me hard because it shows that comic books are more socially relevant than most other media. Back when Superman was created America was still the melting pot and millions of people were immigrating into our country and to have a hero from a different culture that was who he was because of America meant a lot to a lot of different people. Look at the comic books after September 11th 2001, especially the issue of Amazing Spiderman. If you don’t look at that as one of the most just beautiful things to memorialize the tragedy then there is something wrong with you. Around this same time you had Captain America show his emotions and love for his country and his fighting the terrorist threat in his own book. I didn’t see anybody complaining about that. Then you had the Civil War storyline that asked really relevant socio-political questions that have continued to divide our country and our world. The fact that you write off an entire emerging medium to discredit your critics is amateurish and embarrassing.

We sit here and wonder why politics are as bad as they are right now. We ask ourselves why nothing gets done in Washington. We sit here and look at one of the biggest political divides in the history of our nation. I asked myself why is this happening? It is people like you. It is the conservatives and liberals like you that are slowly tearing this country apart. It is funny that something as seemingly meaningless like a Captain America comic made the point clear to me. We live in such an information age where we can get information in the blink of an eye and hide behind our keyboards and insult people and their ideas. We can then respond just as quick. This causes people to constantly bicker about everything, no matter how big or small. The end result is a deeply divided America that cares more about proving the other side wrong and demonizing them. You my friend are guilty of contributing to this system, and you should really take a good hard look at yourself and realize what you are writing may get your idea across but it isn’t helping anything. Instead of ripping apart and attacking people who disagree with you, why don’t you take their side into account and reach out to offer them your hand. Why don’t you reach out to Marvel Comics and Joe Quesada and civilly discuss the deeper issues behind the supposed liberal bias in comic books and work on a solution. Instead you just sit there and do nothing but attack and attack and attack. Then you get attacked back, and it goes back and forth.

There is a reason why James Madison warned against a small union in the Federalist No. 10 and I think we are starting to see why. He warned that with a smaller country we would see factions created that would cripple the nation. It is easy to argue that the United States of America is as small as it has ever been because of the proliferation of information and how interaction between people in California and people in New York is just a few clicks away. A big conservative ideal is remembering and following the wisdom of the founding fathers. This issue is something Madison was very correct about and we should be looking to them for answers.The factions are here and slowly creating a divide in our country that has left our legislature at a deadlock. My question to you is what are you going to do about it? Are you going to continue to add to divide or do your little part in trying to bring this country back together?”

I think that there needs to be clear recognition here that an offensive remark was made but that it was made ACCIDENTALLY. The slogan in the poster was a thoughtless mistake. Quesada admitted this. All have aplogised. Get over it. Move on. Sheeessh… what a conservative/liberal storm in a f****** tea cup. “Let’s get the town folks out of bed and hang that darn letterer high from the town square oak tree. C’mon, Jim, the sun’ll be up soon!”

Chris MRich: Good Eye! I knew there was something about the bar scene that was familiar and you are right, it is almost identical to the scene with Lemar Hoskins (Battlestar) from the John Walker time as Cap.

JokerSoze and Smknl: Couldn’t agree with you folks more on your stances. And I could not find where Sam was “racist” there Thomas. As a black man, if I was told by my partner to try and go into a crowd like that, I’d be wary too! No sane person from any walk of life would want to go into a riled up crowd without a little insurance.

Daniel and jpooch21: Very admirable and sometimes I wish I had the cajones to muster up the energy to do what you folks did.

In retrospect I think I am more angry that Marvel felt the need to retract on this. They gave in and scapegoated when they were in the right.

This sort of stuff is what makes me really depressed about American politics today. It’s not intelligent discourse over an issue or point; rather, it’s childish nitpicking over grammar, “presuppositions”, and blanket statements about the other side of the spectrum, avoiding the issue entirely. That’s really how this whole thing started in the first place: one sign in one panel of one page in one book.
You can’t debate an issue when you’re not willing to open your ears and listen to the other side. Otherwise, you’re just like that kid in kindergarten that plugs his ears and shouts “La,la,la,la” until the other side gets frustrated and gives up. It’s not winning, it’s being loud enough that no one else can be heard; and sadly, that’s what constitutes a lot of modern day political talk. I won’t say it’s entirely one side, either; but you can certainly tune in and see it in action on an entire news network every day.
Makes me glad that I’m in Korea, and that I’m no longer a registered Republican.

What a blowhard douche. Reading his response;
“These emails and replies to my comic book analysis really brought it home that to be a liberal you must make assumptions of your enemy so that they fit neatly into your preconceived notions of the world and you must never try to ask them any questions to determine if they really do fit into the box you’ve constructed for them.”
Ironically, he is loaded with preconceived notions. Does this make him part liberal.

He’s a nobody, I’ll never worry about his ideas after today, hopefully nobody else on this site will either.

Thomas Narcejac, they apologised because fair and balanced Fox News had got a hold of the story, and were perpetuating Huston’s skewed interpretation of the book. The story had a chance to get real nasty if Marvel didn’t back down and apologise.

However, once more, Joe Quesada apologised for the “lettering mix-up” that led to what was supposed to be a general protest group being specifically identified as Tea Party protestors. What he did NOT apologise for, however, is for calling these tea partiers racist or “angry white folks”, because that’s not what Marvel or Brubaker did. In fact, in his original written apology, Quesada did what I’ve done – demonstrated how the “angry white folks” were the Watchdogs, not the protestors.

Warner Todd Huston’s message : Please accept my stupidity.

And the stupidity of my teabagging apologists.

Hey, conservative jerks ! You ruined your country – and THE WORLD – for the past decade.
Shut the fuck up, and admit you have failed.

P.S. You are not impressing anybody.

Far and away the best entry into this preoposterous and contrived controversy. It was a pleasure to read, and certainly I think Huston’s ignorant and mean-spirited responses to your thoroughly polite and well-reasoned article demonstrate exactly how he interprets the whole thing: It’s a chance to score political points by being cheap and, as you say, brutish, and not something he takes seriously.

The one thing I agree with Huston on, though, is that if we didn’t care what he said, we wouldn’t spend so much time talking about it; that’s why I didn’t write about it myself, and restricted my commenting on the matter. I humbly submit that we defer to this feckless twit’s wisdom on this single point where he’s correct, and let the whole thing die.

Truth to Reason, you’re not helping.

As a Conservative thinker (closer to Libertarian than Republican) and HUGE Captain America (especially by Ed Brubaker) fan, I disagree with all the name calling (on both sides) and wasn’t offended at all by the issue. We need to respect others opinions as well as not blow a storyline in a comic book out of proportion.

Very well said, sir. Thank you.

@Jokersoze: You’re right, I went a little over to the WTH sort of argument with that, and I shouldn’t have. It DID however come about recently for me, at least, that every “debate” I’ve gotten into with a conservative has ended up exactly that way, with me being called a retarded liberal to boot (an accusation that one of my truly liberal-minded friends hurt himself laughing over I might add). I guess my leanings are more libertarian than anything else, but I don’t like being labeled as I don’t actually fit any label but GDI-”God Damned Independant”.
I should add that I’ve had liberals call me a brownshirt before, simply for daring to endorse the second amendment rights I enjoy, so I do indeed get it from both sides.

It’s a shame we can’t all find some non-crazy common ground instead of being so polarized, and even more of a shame that an art form all of us here enjoy has to be denigrated for political gain. Not that I really know what Todd gains from all this in the reale world. *Shrug*

Unfortunately due to the blogosphere and other media (some of which I’m a fan of) we’ve lost respect for each others opinions. Its very easy for both sides to bash each other when you don’t have to talk to someone face to face.

Wow you definately put that guy in his place man, well done, well written letter. I’m kindof new to the whole comics scene, having read them back in like 1992 and only now having caught back up with all the happenings of the marvelverse i’ve found that “those books i used to read as a kid” are still quite appealing to me at the age of 24. I guess we can safely add comics to the list of things we’re “too old to do”. Seems as though as soon as you hit 18 you cant have anymore fun? Is it just me?

I’ll admit i’m not familiar with the tea party movement as i am a (proud :P) canadian and couldnt give two fucks about american politics but I have heard of this Tea Party movement. I dont know where this all started but someone must be off their rocker, do these politicians even realise how good they have it? Complaining about taxes and shit like its really THAT bad? Guess what we get taxed up the ass up here in Canada but we still manage to do pretty good for ourselves and i might be going out on a limb here in saying this but you guys would proooobably be fine too. Anyways back to breaking down mister smarty pants.

So he states in his article that “…well, you know that every white person is a racist that hates black civil servants, right?”. I find it funny that a dude all up in arms about generalizations is making like 5 in the first 3 paragraphs of his extremely well written well thought out article about a subject he clearly is in touch with.

so my final point because i realise im going off here is that this guy shouldn’t even be given the light of day to make these absurdities of his public, in all honesty i’ve read alot of retarded opinion pieces and tried to tell myself “well its someones opinion and their situation obviously isnt the same as mine” but this guy just crosses the fucking line in ways that are unimaginable to me. To drag the filthy corrupt american shit show (and it is very much a shit show just watch these all news channels for 5 min and see how many times they try to scare you) that is politics into the comics realm is absolutely unbelievable, and that an accredited member of print media is doing so is shameful to the medium itself, i used to think that newspapers had respected individuals writing for them, even the op ed guys. Guess I, like many of you, was dead wrong…

FunkyGreenJerusalem wrote:

“Because it specified a particular group, when they didn’t want one, and people from that group were highly offended by it?

If they didn’t want it there in the first place, why wouldn’t they remove it?”

That’s a really good question. Brubaker and Quesada both have gone on record saying that they didn’t want it there. They both mantain that they were ‘shocked” by its inclusion and maintained that it must have been the fault of a rogue letterer. And yet nobody believes that this version of events is true (including the people defending the book on this website).

I would hate to see Marvel comics become so politically correct like the movies have become that they choose the same things to make fun of or critique which is one of the things that have made movies stale (in my opinion) you’ve basically got the same mind and much of the same people in the industry callling the shots since the 70s. Basically, having white people crticize white people for being white isn’t really original or it doesn’t gain any true perspective on anything. Aside from the weird cultish thing that SOME of the OBama campaign was, having a character in the Quesada-era books saying ‘well they are racist because they area opposed to the way the goverenment spends its money’ is not only moronic it’s just the same thing I just mentioned about the movies, that you are not allowed to criticise the president because he was the guy who came out of the blue and we’re all support him because he’s not white.. or something. This is America, our politicians are just that, they shouldn’t be celebrities or regarded as royality. They are public servants for crying out loud.

I’ve seen a lot of dumb things since Quesada took HIS office, not the least of which was the Obama issue of the Satanic SPider-man book. It wasn’t OBama that made it bad or would of been good if McCain or any other politician was in it. Amazing Spider-man had become the worst comic book of all time. The character in it bears little real resemblences to the Peter Parker I startted reading those many years ago. It’s a book where readers were lied to for two years about what was going to happen in the book. I don’t know if it’s this ‘PC’ attitude that had produced such lousy ideas in those books or if they just let J. Michael Stracynski do whatever stupid thing he wanted to do depsite the fact that it should of been an event status and written by people who actually understood the character, but the fact that I can say ‘Joe Quesada is a terrible Editor In Chief and ruined Spider-man for good’ is pretty good.

I wonder if Peter parker and Ed Brubaker hate ‘Whitey’ as well.

A lot of people are claiming that conservatives are racist because they haven’t seen many Blacks in attendance at the Tea Parties. By that same logic I could say that Marvel Comics is racist because I haven’t seen very many Black people on their writing staff. I mean you have Brubaker, Bendis, Millar, Fraction, Guggenheim, Waid…. Where is the diversity? Why does Marvel prefer hiring white people?

A lot of people are claiming that conservatives are racist because they haven’t seen many Blacks in attendance at the Tea Parties. By that same logic I could say that Marvel Comics is racist because I haven’t seen very many Black people on their writing staff. I mean you have Brubaker, Bendis, Millar, Fraction, Guggenheim, Waid…. Where is the diversity? Why does Marvel prefer hiring white people?

@Robert Parker – A lack of diversity isn’t the only thing. I don’t think that a lot of the Teabaggers are racist ‘because they haven’t seen many Blacks in attendance at the Tea Parties’. I think a lot of the Teabaggers are racist because they were carrying racist signs and saying racist things. I don’t know about the diversity on Marvel’s staff… but I would say they were racist if the content of their comics was racist.

The only racist things comments that I have heard lately ALL come from liberals. Harry Reid saying he liked Obama because he didn’t use “Negro dialect”. Joe Biden praising Obama for being “smart and clean” (as if it were strange for an African-American to be smart and clean). MSNBC’s Chris Matthews praising one of Obama’s speeches by saying “I almost forgot that he was African-American”, Former KKK Grand Wizard Robert Byrd using the “N word” on live television, Bill Clinton saying that Obama should be fetching his coffee. Bill Clinton calling Obama a thug, etc, etc….
I would never claim that these racist comments are proof that all white liberals are racists. That would be absurd. And I would never want Marvel to do “Captain America Vs. Harry Reid” to prove that they are fair and balanced. I just think that Marvel should keep partisan politics out of their comic books period (especially when it comes to ideologically driven writers like Brubaker)

Why doesn’t someone at CBR write an open letter to their own readers about the classless, and false accusations thrown against anyone who was insulted, not by a simple sign in a crowd scene, but by the whole tone of the issue in question?

I wont hold my breath……

FunkyGreenJerusalem

February 23, 2010 at 3:49 pm

maintained that it must have been the fault of a rogue letterer.

Well, not a rogue letterer – they’ve said it was a last minute fix up job, and the letterer, or someone in production, jumped on the net to get photos of protest signs to put in there.
The most covered protest – by all news networks, though for varying reasons – is the Tea Party movement, and he took their signs.
Remember, the ‘tea bag the libs’ sign isn’t made up – it was taken from a photo of an actual sign.
So basically, people are worked up over an accident.
(At most the person who did the fix up tied it in too closely to an actual protest movement – although I defy anyone not to use that tea bag the libs sign if they saw it).

Much like everything to do with the Tea Party, this is all about seeing boogeymen where none exist, and making a whole lot of noise about it.

But if it is only in our heads, if we’ve only imagined this Tea Party slur….how come Quesada and Brubaker were also “shocked” to see the finished product. Everyone agrees that there is reason for TeaPartiers to be offended. The question is, why did Marvel do this? Does anyone seriously believe that this panel– http://www.boiseweekly.com/images/blogimages/2010/01/25/1264457273-ishot-26.jpg was all Joe Caramagna’s fault and that he was the last filter before the book was published?
It’s obvious that Brubaker and Quesada planned this controversy from the start. Brubaker got to take his “Conservatives are racists” cheap shot. Quesada got to artificially jack up demand for the first printing by saying that it would be replaced by a “Slur Free” second printing (also boosting CA 602 sales) and everybody at Marvel is happy. I just hope that conservative Cap fans will speak up and let Marvel know that this political nonsense has to stop.

Hurling the “racist” insult is easy for the liberals to do when they can’t debate issues on the basis of merit.

Thomas Narcejac, I already answered your question. I already answered all your questions, but you seem intent on ignoring all the facts of the cas in favor of continuing to blindly follow the one narrative that best supports Huston’s hysteria. I have tried my utmost to give you the benefit of the doubt, assuming you’re a reasonable person simply misinformed about the comic. But you disappoint at every turn, to the point where you’re now just outright ignoring objective facts because they don’t fit the skewed version of the comic you want to believe in.

I have to echo JokerSoze. I thought at times we bordered on a meaningful debate here, but I’m consistently seeing people angrily and ardently defend themselves against accusations that haven’t even been made. Furthermore, there’s been a lot of sidestepping the actual point, and, from both sides, cherry-picking “liberal” or “conservative” mistakes and miscues.

Personally, I found Captain America 602 to be relevant and thought provoking. I don’t believe it to be some kind of liberal mouthpiece, but instead a starting point for a meaningful discussion.
I can understand why Brubaker would not want to single out specific individuals by using their real-life signs, but instead depict a generic protest. Either way, it doesn’t change the point, IMO, the issue was trying to make. Which is not an “all conservatives are racist” cheapshot, but at an honest look at disturbing undercurrents within our nation and its political discourse.

I implore any comic fan interested to please, please sit down and read this issue, read the quotes in context, and calmly formulate a rational opinion of it.

I have to echo JokerSoze. I thought at times we bordered on a meaningful debate here, but I’m consistently seeing people angrily and ardently defend themselves against accusations that haven’t even been made. Furthermore, there’s been a lot of sidestepping the actual point, and, from both sides, cherry-picking “liberal” or “conservative” mistakes and miscues.

Personally, I found Captain America 602 to be relevant and thought provoking. I don’t believe it to be some kind of liberal mouthpiece, but instead a starting point for a meaningful discussion.
I can understand why Brubaker would not want to single out specific individuals by using their real-life signs, but instead depict a generic protest. Either way, it doesn’t change the point, IMO, the issue was trying to make. Which is not an “all conservatives are racist” cheapshot, but at an honest look at disturbing undercurrents within our nation and its political discourse.

I implore any comic fan interested to please, please sit down and read this issue, read the quotes in context, and calmly formulate a rational opinion of it.

FunkyGreenJerusalem

February 24, 2010 at 8:49 pm

But if it is only in our heads, if we’ve only imagined this Tea Party slur….how come Quesada and Brubaker were also “shocked” to see the finished product.

Because it put a real world name into the book, when they were expecting it to be unnamed protest?

Everyone agrees that there is reason for TeaPartiers to be offended.

No, the tea-party agrees they should be offended.

Everyone agrees they are offended.

I don’t think too many, who aren’t associated, could care either way.

Does anyone seriously believe that this panel– http://www.boiseweekly.com/images/blogimages/2010/01/25/1264457273-ishot-26.jpg was all Joe Caramagna’s fault and that he was the last filter before the book was published?

Is there any evidence the other way?

There is one sign that implicates the Tea Party.
One sign taken from a photo of an actual Tea Party protest.

If there wasn’t such a sign in a photo, then maybe you could prove that someone involved at Marvel doesn’t like the tea party – but as there was, it makes their story more probable than yours.
(And it’s not hard to find that sign in an image search).

I’m not sure if you’ve ever worked in media before, but little things like that slip through all the time – all it was, was placing letters onto the signs.
That sort of thing is commonly left to the last second, done by someone lower on the food chain, and not always thoroughly checked over – especially with a scene they weren’t expecting to offend anyone.

It’s obvious that Brubaker and Quesada planned this controversy from the start.

Maybe in the basement you are sitting in, desperately hoping there in a unified political enemy to rally against, constantly searching for a the conspiracy you always knew existed, it’s obvious – but to anyone with a brain, and without a political agenda for either side, I think it’s quite clear it’s a mistake.

Particularly as there is…. ZERO evidence going the other way.

Worth a note – they got a lot of press coverage out of killing Rogers and all that – some even from conservatives.
Why would they want to endanger getting that sort of publicity, over a scandal involving one single panel in a book, that isn’t integral to the story at all?
At what other point in the decade he’s been EIC, has Quesada done something like that?

I just hope that conservative Cap fans will speak up and let Marvel know that this political nonsense has to stop.

YEAH!

I’m sick of the politicizing Cap A!

They’ve been doing it his entire existence, and it’s time to stop it already!

I wonder if you’d feel that way if signs like this one had been in the picture, and it was a positive thing?
http://del1357.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/phoenix_tea_party_05.jpg

Hurling the “racist” insult is easy for the liberals to do when they can’t debate issues on the basis of merit.

Just like conservative do with ‘coward’ or ‘unpatriotic’ or ‘terrorist’ or ‘socialist’ when liberals protest a war, or want the health care system brought up to the level of countries with less money.

Whinging about the names the other side always calls you is another time honoured trick to avoid saying anything, from both sides.

Good you came and posted here, in other words – I was worried this thread was just going to descend into the same old!

Um, ok, let me get this straight, some Conservatives think that the comment made by the Falcon imply that the Tea Party people are racist? So does this mean that whenever someone makes the joke that “black people generally don’t play Hockey is because they don’t like being around so many white people with sticks”, that they are saying all white Hockey players are racists? It may not be the best way to say it but my point is that the smallest statement, that can be read in many ways, is somehow an attack on all your cherished ideals is a very big jump, and I would suggest that what some have said about the context and the mind of the character being looked at should be heeded, the jump to conclusions is more about what is in the mind of the reader, no one likes having there beliefs attacked, a thing I might remind some to remember when they think about those on the other side of the political spectrum, but you can’t assume that something is an attack when it’s so ambiguous. The Falcon lost his parents to violence, something to think about when he sees an angry protest of any kind, so could he have meant that he thought the protesters were racists, possibly, or he could be like many who see an angry group of people and think to themselves, “Do I want to be the one person in that crowd who stands out and become the focus of it’s attention?”. And while it may be decades now since them there is still the specter of protests against desegregation in the minds of many blacks in the USA, and let’s be honest, no matter how long a time passes there will always be hurt feelings in some people, there are feuds between groups of people that go back thousands of years so a few decades is not much time, so while some may feel that to have it brought up in connection to them is unfair they must realize that appearances can bring out those feelings, seeing an angry white crowd no matter what they are protesting will bring those hurt feelings out in many black Americans, it doesn’t matter at all what the protest is, it is the resemblance that matters to the person seeing it, so the Falcon reacting the way he did could be just him reacting the way many blacks would while seeing something that reminds them of a dark page of American history like the protests against desegregation.
And as to some of what I heard, the complaint that somehow the comic saying that a dangerous militia movement has members in the protest, well is it not true that there are those in the Tea Party who associate with the militia movement? I’m not saying all of them are but let’s be honest, a few are undoubtedly members, just like there are a spectrum of views in any large group of people, be fair and admit that even among those you share a majority of views with that there are some points you disagree on. Yet the conclusion that the book labels the Tea Party as an enemy of America is what some are drawing, which the book never said, again it’s a case of making a judgement that some small statement is an overarching edict because of a feeling that your views are being attacked. Lashing out at Marvel is fine, they’ve made some really bad choices in their history, but try do it for legitimate reasons, not because your feelings are hurt and you don’t like to be told the truth, stating that there are a few bad apples in a group is not an attack on the group, try to remember that.

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Thanks for the website. I’m not that big into comics but I have a lot of friends who are.

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