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Fortunately for me, my local library regularly gets the trades for FABLES and JACK of FABLES, and the GREAT FABLES CROSSOVER that I’m able to keep up to date on recent events.

As far as your list goes, Snow White, Frau Totenkinder, and Baba Yaga are my favorites.

I do believe Mike Mignola uses Baba Yaga occasionaly in the pages of HELLBOY.

Isn’t Goldilocks a straw spoof of militant activists, though? Regardless of the truth behind her message, the fact that she expresses it as a murderous loon who completely buys her own diatribes obscures any points she may have. She doesn’t interrupt my enjoyment of the book the way other overtly political rants from Willingham have ( see: Bigby’s infamous Israel speech ), but she isn’t on my list of favorites, male or female.

The others I agree with, though.

Good list! I hope Snow will see some more action soon as well.

Shouldn’t it be the “Snow Queen” instead of the “White Queen” though?

Great review. I look forward to your articles every week.

Fables is a fantastic series. I was very happy that the Adversary stuff was done with at issue 75. Even though Fables has been a great issue since the beginning and was doing very well with the whole war with the Adversary stuff, its refreshing to see all the new directions the book is going in.
Also, I think it is interesting to point out how James Jean effectively potrays the women of Fables on the covers. Take the cover for Fables 71. It’s a beautiful cover. Beautiful in its execution but also draws a beautiful Cinderella (that’s her, right?) without making her look slutty. I find that when a female character is drawn slutty its out of confusion on the part of the artist. They draw a slutty female caracter in the hopes that she looks physically appealing to a male audience. There is more to beauty than just clivage and ample bossoms. Go look at some Fables covers.
(Just to clear things up, i’m aware James Jean isn’t the only artist in the industry that does this, there are others who also do it extremely well but I thought I would stick with Fables examples. Also check out the Goldilocks cover from the Animal Farm storyline. She’s in her undies yet, somehow, it isn’t overly sexualized.)

Tom: As you know from my “10 Great Female Characters Of The Decade List” Frau is my favorite – and hence the reason she got TWO fun facts I love Snow but she gets a bit high and mighty for my tastes sometimes.

Nitz: Possibly. I know that Mr. Willingham and my own personal politics definitely don’t line up. And by including Goldilocks in the list I wasn’t trying to advocate that she is right in her tactics (or in her beliefs – though I find that aspect interesting) she’s merely there – like The Snow Queen, Baba Yaga and other villains (amongst “good guys”) for being an interesting take on an original fairytale character. I see your point though.

NB: D’oh! Thanks for the catch – I changed it back. I’m always getting tripped up on that – chalk it up to a secret love affair with Emma Frost I suppose.

Adam: Thanks! I appreciate the support.

Mario: That is Cinderella on the first cover (Fables #71).

I agree that Jean’s covers are a huge part of what makes these characters and this book so female positive. Imagine Fables with all Adam Hughes covers – no offense to Mr. Hughes who is an incredibly talented artist – but it’s an entirely different feel for the whole book (and series). When I did my “100 Best Covers” list on my personal blog this past summer a lot of Jean’s Fables covers made the list and I talked a lot about how he manages to make characters sexy and sexual as is often necessary, without taking the power away from them and overly objectifying them. Fables #71 and the Goldilocks cover you mention both made the list and got discussed.

I’ve still never read any Fables, but everything I’ve seen on this site in the past year makes it sound really great. I don’t know if I could really afford any of those volumes you mention, and unfortunately, the library here doesn’t have any. I guess I might be able to get the new issues, though.
I have a hard time seeing Ozma as a blonde. Unlike the others you feature, who have existed in countless versions over the years, Ozma was drawn by a single artist for four decades and that’s the only version I’ve ever seen. She was always a crafty politician so it does seem likely that she will play an important part as the series progresses. I wonder if she’ll end up proclaiming herself as ruler at some point.

I have never been able to find this series outside of a comic store (which is odd, considering I worked at two different bookstores through most of my time as an undergrad), and this is one of the few big series I was never able to give a try. Clearly I am missing out.

I like the idea of the Beast turning back to a, well, beast when he and Beauty (I really wanna’ call her ‘Belle’, but I know that’s wrong) have marital difficulties; I always thought it was kind of a cheat that her reward for not being shallow and judging him on his appearance was to be able to marry the same soul in a totally hot body.

Or, as Dave berry once noted, maybe she was just overjoyed that she wouldn’t have to shave their babies.

Good article on a good series. My comics knowledge of the past 10 years is sketchy-to-awful and Fables was recommended in past polls on this website.
Luckily, like Tom, my library has plenty of trades, the earliest beginning with March of the Wooden Soldiers (which is a good place to start!).
The clever thing with Fables is it all seems effortless. I didn’t even really notice that there’s a lot strong women characters and there’s little objectification of women etc. The writing, tone and art as Kelly said above all contribute to this – you just take it (“it” meaning “yes there’s strong men as well as strong women just like there are bad & good women & men in the book”) as a given when you read.
Willingham’s not making a big deal about it – it just IS. The fact I’ve never even known him as a writer (my experience of Willingham is confined to his early art, eg. an early JLA annual) makes it even more impressive. Kudos to Buckingham too – again, I think I first encountered him at the same time in the late 80s (Shade The Changing Man?). His battle scenes (especially stuff with the Emperor) seem to bring out a Kirby influence, never a bad thing for this rabid Kirby fan!
It’s funny to think that to European kids of yore, these fairy tale characters WERE the superheroes of their day – mythical folk heroes in a fantastical setting.
I really can’t recommend this series enough. Thanks Kelly – and like you said, you don’t have to know (partly because these characters are universal) the back issues to just ‘dip into’ any of the stories/trades.

By far my favorite woman of the series has been Cinderella. I love the Fables’ take on “tourists” and by far Cindy has shown herself to be quite the crafty one.

Minor correction/spoiler Kelly, even though it wasn’t Baba Yaga, the Red Riding Hood that Blue initially got involved with was essentially proven to be a fake and that it was also an infiltration technique used by the empire.

Mary & E. Wilson: If you liked what you saw today, I definitely recommend hunting the trades down. Maybe check another library, or look for them used on Amazon perhaps?

Peter Woodhouse: It does feel effortless. And I think part of that effortlessness is all the pieces working together fluidly towards a common goal. For example in Rucka’s Queen & Country series – a series I would consider very female positive overall – there was a particular guest artist for one arc that really was not coming from the same place and as a result the portrayal of Tara Chace became very objectified, kind of out of nowhere. An example of something that feels effortless and well done to us as readers, actually being a result of everything kind of working perfectly…which is hard to do.

Daryll B: You’re right – the way I wrote that was misleading – I corrected it. Thanks!

Fables is a good read, no question. I got into the series about 2 years ago, and, as long as the quality stays high, I’ll keep reading it.

Kely, I’m curious as to whether or not you’ve read some of the better ’90s/early ’00s comics featuring strong female leads or co-leads- Kabuki, The Maxx, Leave It to Chance, Castle Waiting (sort of like Fables, but gentler), Strangers in Paradise, or any of Lea Hernandez’s comics. While the era has a reputation for Lady Death-style bad girls, there were some good comics that managed to come out during that time.

Has there been a Goldilocks/Cinderella showdown? ‘Cause I eventually lost interest in the series, but I’d come back for that.

Just to let you know (since you admitted to not reading Jack of Fables), Godilocks DID return. She turned up in the very first story arc of the series. She could pop back up at any time.

Unfortunately, Goldilocks becomes somewhat of a joke over in Jack of Fables. She was such a legitimate threat and an interesting character (despite her radical beliefs). She loses most of that in Jack of Fables and just comes off as a goofy exaggeration of what she was (which is saying a lot, because as an extremist in Animal Farm she was already meant to be an exaggeration to begin with, but in a more satirical way).

Cinderella is by far my favourite of this series. Cinderella Libertine (issue 22) is one of the most solid singular issues of the series, with a great beginning, middle and end. Even her shallow cover persona has depth, as seen in her explanation of why she feels particularly cheated by Prince Charming. I suspect that little rant about that may have been genuine and not merely for show.

I agree that Frau Totenkinder becoming a young woman takes away a bit of her cool factor. But that entire transformation scene was a really cool moment, so I’m conflicted. Her showdown with Baba Yaga (which was really the first time we saw her in any extended role) is definitely one of the top moments in the series. Whenever I think of Fables, that’s one of the scenes I think about. March of the Wooden Soldiers was a great arc, in general. I think if the trade format had kept Cinderella Libertine in that volume (instead of shuffling it to Mean Seasons), it would be the PERFECT trade!

And I have absolutely no problems with Snow White losing the spotlight after she has kids. I think that people may look at it a bit negatively because it was timed when she had the children, but as you mentioned in your article it was a really natural way for her to leave. The rules had been set up from the very get go, and the beauty of Fables is that the focus can shift to other characters. Heck, Snow White retained quite a central role from issue 73 onwards. She really doesn’t need to be consulted about Fabletown problems, and yet she and Bigby are more central to fixing the problems than Beauty, Beast and Cole are.

Kelly, have you tried Jack of Fables? Because even though the tone is very different from the main series, it’s still a good read, IMHO. I can almost guarantee you will adore Babe the Blue Ox.

I also would recommend to your list Bo Peep from Fables: Peter & Max. She’s a retired assassin and wife to retired master thief, Peter Piper. Good times. I’ll say no more to avoid spoiling anything.

You’re right when it comes to the strong-female presence in this comic not feeling forced. Bill does a really good job of making sure that all characters can be equally powerful and vulnerable, regardless of gender. And yes, while Bigby Wolf may have a larger record of “saving the day” moments, that doesn’t diminish that Snow, Rose Red, Frau Totenkinder, Cinderella (and, to be fair, Boy Blue, PC, Flycatcher, Beast and even King Cole) have also been heroes at some point or another in the series.

My only complaint is that, while I love what we’ve seen from Beauty, as Deputy mayor she hasn’t had the chance to shine like Snow has. Though I guess this is due to her being overshadowed by a more pro-active Mayor Charming, she’s still being overshadowed by Snow and Bigby when she really shouldn’t be.

I am not up-to-date with FABLES, but I really enjoy what I have gotten to read so far. In a way, it is not unlike 80% of the other comics on the market in that it takes children’s characters and re-visits them through adult eyes. However, the way Willingham does it is the key. He treats readers of adult material like they are adults.

Take Goldilocks as an example. Willingham has a conception of her as the sort of campus radical that gets inveighed against on Talk Radio. Part of that is her sexuality and her willingness to live completely by her belief that all Fables are equal. Willingham addresses this directly with some R-Rated dialog and nudity. However, her sexuality is only one part of Goldilocks character. Willingham and Buckingham give her a character design that is in keeping with her campus radical identity. Her wire-rimmed glasses, middle-parted shaggy hair cut and (importantly) desexualized body reinforce her personality. That is how comics are supposed to work.

As a result, the character is strong enough that the reader can a reaction to her that is independent of the attitude of the author. That is the hallmark of good fiction in any medium.

It seems simple, but consider how the same character would have been handled in the average Big Two superhero comic. Addressing Goldilocks indirectly would pretty well have required a sexualized character design, so that the little flirty remarks she makes at Baby Bear come across. Maybe something like this: http://www.urbandigs.com/goldilocks-economy.jpg

Well, what has happened then?

The identity of Goldilocks as a campus radical is now divorced from her character design. Her words no longer match her appearance, which is a real problem in comics. A huge percentage of the personality of the character comes from how they are drawn. Slowly, the character would become a fetish object that seems to flirt with just about everyone.

Sounds sort of familiar, doesn’t it?

I believe Briar Rose and Rose Red are the same character.

Fables #22 is good, but #51 is by far my favorite Cinderella story. I loved to see her out of her element (which considering how adaptive she is, is saying a lot) by having to deal with diplomacy and politics.

Wolfgang Grimm,
That’s impossible. As Kelly mentionned, Briar Rose is now sleeping in the Fables Homeland. Briar Rose is the name the Brothers Grimm gave Sleeping Beauty. Also, Rose Red, who is Snow White’s sister, is currently on the Farm… while Briar Rose is still sleeping in the Homelands. Two characters in two locations ergo they are not the same person.
It is, however, pretty confusing at times because of the similarity in their names.

I think that, overall, Fables is really well-done. But its female characters are actually pretty weak. Snow got pregnant and “domesticated’ after all of two arcs, and the other female characters are mostly evil/menacing (Goldilocks, Snow Queen, Baba Yaga). Briar is defined solely by her connection to Prince Charming, still, as is Rose Red to the men in her life (with BB’s death being the most recent event). Sure, Rose “grew,” but it was because of an uncharacteristically bitter speech by BB, where he judgmentally lectured her about being a party girl and drama queen. Beauty is practically a secretary. Cindarella is really the only one that defies all that, and even then, Willingham just took his “hyper-competent fighter and strategist” archetype (which we’ve seen with Bigby, Beast, Mogwai, BB, sometimes Prince Charming) and slapped it on a woman.

The breadth and depth of the series overall, and its plotting and concepts, is incredibly rich. But female characters? Meh.

As a liberal, I suppose I could object to Goldilocks, as she is a pretty obvious spoof of a certain kind of radical, but somehow I don’t.

Part of it is that there are so few conservative writers in comics, that I really don’t mind a bit of fresh air.

But the greater part is that Goldilocks seems less like an attack on homosexual activists (something that might have angered me) and more like a criticism of the sort of Marxist that we still see a lot of outside of America – the ones that complain about the injustices of a capitalistic government but dream of instituting a government “for the people” that is a thousand times more oppressive, with them among the ruling elite, of course. Once in power, they are as likely to persecute people with alternate sexualities as “decadent reactionaries” if those people complain about the new government.

To all who love Fables and haven’t done so yet. Pick up Bills, hopefully first of many novels, Peter and Max. I just finished it and was so sad that it had to end. Willinghams prose just gets better and better over the years. And I’ve been a fan of his since Ironwood

Wahey! Your Fables piece has arrived!

As someone else mentioned, Goldilocks has returned in the first couple of arcs of Jack of Fables (And the last arc prior to the Great Crossover, I think…) and is generally portrayed as a bit of a nutter…

It was also made clear during Animal Farm that she had made sexual advances towards Bluebeard’s Goblin Butler as well…

In defence of the “domesticising” of Snow White… Those that think this weakens a character have obviously never been involved in rearing children… I have two kids (and, unfortunately, no support network, as both our families live too far away) and let me tell you that they ARE A HANDFUL! Snow and Bigby have SEVEN kids… Septuplets, no less, so they are struggling with first child issues (i.e., learning EVERYTHING about child-raising) seven-fold…

Snow had to choose between running the business office or moving to the Farm to raise her chldren (flying, shapechanging kids couldn’t be raised in New York until they had learned control of their powers).

She has still played an important role (particularly during the war) as no-one has as much knowledge of how everything in Fable town clicks together…

I get the single issues of all the Fables titles. The Trades of Fables. Starting to get the Jack trades. And I am buying the BEAUTIFUL Deluxe Hardcover collection too…

The only time I’ve ever felt annoyed with Fables was Bigby’s “Israel Speech” to Gepetto… But that’s the only real time I’ve noticed any “Heavy-Handed” political crap… (I suppose you could argue that Goldilocks is a pastiche of “Liberal Extremeism”… but I just think of her as a nutter…)

@Wolfgang Grimm, you should know this, as it was written by your namesakes, but Rose Red is quite a different character from Briar Rose. Rose Red appears in the fairy tale ‘Snow White and Rose Red’: http://www.bartleby.com/17/2/42.html whereas Little Briar Rose appears in ‘Sleeping Beauty’: http://www.bartleby.com/17/2/22.html

Alan Moore would probably have made them the same character, but Willingham doesn’t seem to have.

It’s curious that some of these are seen as ‘strong’ women…

Rose Red is currently bedridden do to the lost of a man she had a crush on.

Snow White has been relegated to child rearing.

Beauty has been mainly a background worrier.

The Snow Queen may be powerful, but she was easily duped by Jack and subservient to the Adversary.

Briar Rose just made use of being a victim as her main contribution to the storyline.

I have to say that for me Frau Tautenkinder wins hands down – I am a great fan of manipulative characters and the contrast between her being immensely powerful and morally ambigous yet simultaniously acting the part of ‘little old lady’ is great fun.

On the flip side, with the fables I’ve read so far, I’ve never really taken to Cinderella – unlike every other character her development doesn’t (to me of what I’ve read so far – up to the 11th tpb) doesnt really feel like it has much to do with the original character of Cinderella. She certainly does some cool things, but the character seems more artificial than most.

Blackjak – Definitly agree with you on Bigby’s Israel speech – it just made Bigby sound embarassingly ignorant which isn’t usual for him at all.

@ Mike Loughlin: I dabbled in some of those comics primarily Maxx and Kabuki. And am a fan of Strangers In Paradise. Strangely enough I just recently discovered Castle Waiting and it’s high on my to read list. My exposure to Lea Hernandez is bit limited – something I hope to correct. I haven’t read Leave It To Chance…but isn’t that James Robinson? I have a bit of an issue with him…doesn’t mean it’s not a good book…just that I may have dismissed it because of personal preference there.

@rwe1138: I have not tried Jack of Fables, though I’ve heard good things. I’ll be honest here, in the regular series Jack is one of my least favorite characters (I’m sure those of you who read SHNH regularly can guess why) and so it was unlikely I’d follow him into his own book.

@Michael P: No Goldilocks v Cinderella showdown in the regular Fables series. In fact in Fables Goldilocks has not returned since her demise. Although it sounds from other commenters like she’s shown up in Jack of Fables. Sadly it sounds like her return in Jack of Fables is not so great. Too bad.

@Seth: Thanks for the recommend!

@Eddy: Though I’d like to see Beauty do more/be more, I kind of like that she’s not getting featured much in Snow’s old job and when she is featured she doesn’t seem near as good at it (or to like it much) as I think it only helps to strengthen the belief that Snow is exceptional in that way…and that all characters have individual strengths and weakness and are not necessarily interchangeable. I think the handling of the differences between Bigby as Sheriff and Beast as Sheriff though has been more interestingly handled. You’re also right that part of the problem with Beauty in the Snow role is that Prince Charming is a totally different mayor than Cole, which changes things.

@Wolfgang: Mario and Nick are right, historically Briar Rose (aka Sleeping Beauty) and Rose Red are different fairytale characters – and they are most certainly different characters in Willingham’s world.

@Dean: As usual your analysis is spot on. And not unlike the idea for Fables itself, something I wish I’d thought to say first.

I think you really hit it on the head with the idea that the merging of character concept and character design often goes horribly awry in comics – especially when it comes to female characters. It’s a real problem and it’s one of the many treats in Fables to see that aspect executed perfectly.

@Adamantium Wholesaler: I have to say I definitely disagree (obvious I suppose considering I wrote the column) but to me a strong character doesn’t mean that he or she doesn’t have weaknesses. I think Rose Red (though I don’t particularly enjoy how long her current arc is taking to play out) going through a horribly emotional depression over the death of a friend is not necessarily weakness, and particularly because I feel confident that Rose will come out of it and emerge triumphant, it just seems natural to me. And in the end i suspect it will only strengthen the character.

As I mentioned I’m not a huge fan of the way Snow getting pregnant and being sent/sending herself away situation worked out, however I don’t feel like it’s unnatural. This is a reality women (and men) with children face, and while I don’t want Willingham deciding that it’s best if Snow is seen and not heard once she has children, I think for the most part it’s been well handled. It would have been laughingly unrealistic to have Snow still running Fabletown while raising 7 newborns. Also, it’s not like when Snow went to the farm we just didn’t see her anymore. She’s less of a star of the book, but she still has storylines…and I doubt she’ll remain in the background for long.

You also skipped over about half the list by ignoring the “bad guys” (Goldilocks, Snow Queen, Baba Yaga) all important in their own right and you also skipped over the best of these characters (for my money) Frau Totenkinder. I personally don’t agree with your assessment of Cinderella, but I can see where you’re getting that. For both Briar and Beauty I think there’s more to come. They’ve been important and interesting in small ways, but this is a book with MANY characters, it takes time.

@Sam: I guess I just see the stories as a little more complicated than that. Briar’s power does make her a bit of a victim, but I appreciate Willingham holding on to interesting and factual parts of the original fairytale, and to me, what makes Briar NOT a victim is her choice in using her “power/curse” to help others – and in the end to sacrifice herself (for possibly a hundred years) to save her friends and family.

Rose Red is currently bedridden (and as I mentioned above this arc with her has been drawn out unnecessarily long in my opinion) but I don’t find her reason for being bedridden to be shallow…but deep. The crippling self-realization of who you are vs perhaps who you should have been, the realization of missed opportunity, and most obviously the heartbreak of losing your best friend. Additionally, I have no doubt that she will rise up and reclaim her life. Again, a strong character to me is not always strong but rather realistic and thus prone to weakness like anyone.

I’ve already explained my conflicts and concerns about Snow. As I don’t read Jack of Fables I don’t know the story with Jack and The Snow Queen (and I mentioned in the piece my dislike of that concept) but she seemed powerful and worthy of respect from what I read in Fables. I think Beauty is just starting to get her day in the sun. Though I will have some issues if the result of Beauty’s pregnancy is the wholly the same as Snow’s. We’ll see.

Inneresting, especially because right around the time of Blue’s single-man invasion of the Homelands I began to see a shift in focus for the series. I feel now that as a full-on war between the New York Fables (sounds like a baseball team) and the Empire became imminent the focus turned to the male hero; this trend I feel was continued with Ambrose’s story, although he was obviously a far more gentle, nurturing hero-king. Snow White, up to this point the most important leader for her community, was shot into the background while the male hero went to war. Don’t get me wrong; I don’t think Willingham or any of the creators are misogynists by any means, nor do I feel like the story/stories suddenly became inherently sexist; rather, I just found it an interesting pattern to note.

Ohhh, and by the way, great article! So far I’m really enjoying the subjects you choose as well as your writing. Frau Totenkinder’s every word sparks a raging debate inside my head; she speaks and you listen and you just know there’s some deeper meaning to her every word.

Leave It to Chance was a wonderful series, a far cry from anything Robinson has written since. 14 year-old Chance Falconer, daughter of her world’s greatest monster hunter, goes off on advntures involving monsters, ghosts, pirates, etc. It was a fun comic, and appropriate for all ages without being cloying. Paul Smith’s art was very good, with just the right amount of whimsy.

@ Kelly Thompson:

Thanks. You write great articles that are thought provoking. That makes it very easy to comment.

@ Mike Loughlin:

The most under-rated trait in comics is the relationship between a writer and artist. James Robinson writes dialog heavy comics, which means he needs great “acting” from his artist. A lot of artists are not detailed enough in the face, or too detailed in the background to get the most out his scripts. Paul Smith hits the perfect balance. Robinson just does not have a talent that is well-suited to the monthly sausage factory of shared universe comics.

Nice article! I wonder if the upcoming tv series will keep these as strong characters? Or will they all be reduced to OC/90210 bimbos?

Need to pick up 1001 Nights of Snowfall, forgot that it even existed and have read almost everything else. Haven’t got around to the novel yet either.

Have you been enjoying the new Cinderella series? I sure have, and Cinderella appears to be remaining a strong female character in her own book.

Have you read Willingham’s Proposition Player, Kelly?

Quite a good little story, pretty hilarious, and not too offensive, send up of organized religion (more Life Of Brian than Preacher)… although a very different take on the female characters, particularly in the stories resolution.

Seth:

I’ll say no more to avoid spoiling anything.

Except that one becomes a master thief and one becomes an assassin – something that doesn’t happen until the second half of the book, and is part of the mystery of the book from the outset!

Rene:

As a liberal, I suppose I could object to Goldilocks, as she is a pretty obvious spoof of a certain kind of radical, but somehow I don’t.

She is, but she’s a lot more than that.

I mean even as a spoof, she also falls in as a spoof on people in militia’s – not necessarily a left wing option – and what I find makes it even more interesting – the farm Fables who were in the uprising, though the villains of the story, were never actually shown to be wrong, or shown to be treated equal or anything.
Yes, they have to be hidden because they don’t look human, but they are treated as lesser citizens by the city Fables, their opinions and desires never seem to count, they are ruled over by people they didn’t choose (they have no say over who runs the farm), and their own land is up for grabs at any time (be it war, evacuation, or as a retirement present).
I think it makes it a lot more interesting. You see why the city Fables act the way they do, they aren’t trying to treat people like dirt, and usually it is for the good of all – but you can see the farm fables point of view.

(I do wonder though if the ‘right to rule’ meme that was in Fables for quite a while – the elected rulers can do whatever they want or need, and everyone is subject to it without debate – will continue with the current administration).
Sam:

Rose Red is currently bedridden do to the lost of a man she had a crush on.

Yeah, the person who could have been the love of her life died.
Before he died, he gave a rather cold speech about her failings as a person – hinting towards a traumatic event in her past which has made her incapable of a lasting serious relationship – and has left her convinced she needs him to make her whole.

So, a little more complicated than you’re saying.

Snow White has been relegated to child rearing.

This sounds more like your own sexist hang-up than anything that happens in the book – she’s been pretty central to a lot of stories since that happened.

Heck, she was the most pro-active person in the crossover.

Beauty has been mainly a background worrier.

Again, not really – she’s been as central as any of Fables cast are.
She hasn’t had an arc where she’s the star, but she’s done as much as say, Boy Blue used to do in the book (with the exception of the Homelands arc).
For someone who was chosen by a leader with no plan of ruling (in another apparent left wing send up), for a character who’d only been in gags before that, she’s done a pretty good job.
Heck, the scene where she rebuked Charming’s advances made her more of an individual than many other characters in Fables – even when her marriage is on the rocks, she isn’t going to give in to a moments pleasure.

The Snow Queen may be powerful, but she was easily duped by Jack and subservient to the Adversary.

What happens in Jack should stay in Jack!
I’ll agree that was a terrible story, which did undercut the impact of her character, and made Jack seem an even bigger tosser than ever before.

As for subservient to the Adversary – again, I can’t help but feel that’s a bit of a stretch to make it seem sexist.
Entire world’s were subservient to the adversary – there wasn’t much choice.
She was one of the most powerful people in his empire, and a trusted adviser.
It was as powerful as you could get in thousands of worlds without being the adversary himself.

Briar Rose just made use of being a victim as her main contribution to the storyline.

No, she took a disability, and turned it into a weapon of mass destruction.

Hasn’t had much page time though, but I’m sure that will get rectified one day.

Fables in the library. Just so youknow, if you didn’t, as long as a book is in 1 library in the country, you can get it delivered to yours. They’re all in network. So for free you can get any book sent to your local placeand then they call you when it comes in. This is actually how i caught up on transmetropolitan.

I don’t believe Maddy the cat belongs to Ozma. She is another of the witches, who happens to be siding with Ozma in her bid for power. The other names she gives, such as Medea (Euripides) and Sycorax (The Tempest), would seem to support that.

Nice article Kelly! Despite disagreeing with much of Willingham’s political views (props to NB for pointing out the Israel speech by Bigby, which also left a bad taste in my mouth), he thankfully leaves out most of his personal socio-political views in Fables. One can’t be grateful enough that characters aren’t expressing a love for Ayn Rand at every turn. With that said, the wide range of female characters is nice to see, but I gotta go with Cinderella as my favorite. Her own series, in my opinion, is actually on par with Fables (although too early to tell if this is sustainable) and her abilities honed over the centuries and being a very popular character make her virtually unkillable. Goldilocks interspecies erotica interest is both funny and an interesting expansion on her interaction with the bears from the real fables. I have to say though that Beauty, Briar Rose and Rose Red seem a little less developed, but this is not that surprising as this is a HUGE cast to deal with. At times, one can confuse the three whereas the rest stand-out due to their more unusual individualized development.

One note: I am surprised at the lack of lesbian characters. I mean given the adult nature and the attempt to hit a wide demographic, this seems a bit glaring. At the very least, having one character be ‘bi’ might help some of the interchangeables stand out. I’m not advocating, I’m just saying! There is also limited Native American fables involvement, which one would think, would be huge considering the series takes place in North America. ‘Western’ fables aside, geography should matter a bit. Aside from these minor quibbles, this series is up there as one of the best.

I think it is worth noting that Bigby basically became a house dad after he married Snow. Both of them went to the background of the story, and it’s not like Bigby is having these huge adventures without Snow. Both of them made the choice that they were going to make raising the cubs the priority, and not just Snow. I don’t wish to be disrespectful, but the way you portray makes it seem to someone who never read the book that Snow is now a housewife, while Bigby gets to continue doing his job. It is something that could not be farther from the truth.

I read a lot of these in graphic novel format just by going to the New York public library after I saw a copy at one of the branches. One way to go if you want to catch up and can’t afford it. Or you can set-up camp at a local Barnes and Noble and read it in a corner or a comfy chair if you can find one.

Coralskipper makes a good point. Bigby and Snow have taken fairly similar roles since having their children. Bigby may have had more front-line play in War and Pieces, but Snow was shown to be totally in charge of all the behind the scenes stuff.

Also, if we’re talking equality, Bigby’s actions after Snow moves to the Farm are equally as low as Rose Red’s after losing Boy Blue. The scenarios are much more complex and interesting than simply summing it up as “She’s a total wreck”.

There’s a lack of LGBT characters, but I’d like to think of that more as there just not being an organic way to bring that into the series up until now. Rose Red has mentioned a few girl/girl moments in her past, though.

(And the lack of Native American Fables is touched upon in the Jack of Fables series, but I still think it’s a horrible series that we should all just forget).

Dear Kelly,

HI! Thanks for this article. I was recently re-introduced to Fables when I picked up “Peter and Max” at a local bookstore and was totally enchanted by the writing and the story. I have been trying to figure out how to catch up on the comics – the library seems like a great alternative and I’m going to see if mine has the trades.

After reading the book, I looked up Willingham on wikipedia and was totally put off by his self-admitted “rabid pro-Israel” stance and the reference to the speech given by Bigby. However, many people have assured me that Willingham generally keeps his politics out of Fables, so I’m hoping to be able to read the series without having to grit my teeth every second issue.

Great Piece. I love Fables and it’s strong women.

I don’t think anyone has pointed this out yet, but the Snow Queen didn’t turn evil because Jack left her. As most things in Fables, it is more complicated than that. Okay so this is a SPOILER WARNING for Jack of Fables two issue “Jack Frost” story arc found in the 2nd tpb. Snow Queen and her sisters were rulers who were loved by their people. Jack won her heart, got her pregnant and then she lent him her powers so he could take her place in the changing seasons. Jack of course ran off with her powers, screwing up the seasons and causing famines. The general populace felt betrayed and abandoned by the Snow Queen and decided to over throw her. She was powerless and had to sneak away. She vowed never to trust anyone again. END SPOILERS

I didn’t check out Jack of Fables till recently because the Great Fables Crossover is a direct result of the ongoing story in Jack of Fables, I wanted to get some background info before reading it. And actually, (Minor SPOILERS about JACK OF FABLES series)the Great Fables Crossover pretty much wrapped up the Jack of Fables series so much so that the current series doesn’t feature Jack Horner anymore or resemble the series at all before the Great Fables Crossover. I’ve never been a huge fan of Jack Horner, but his series really grew on me. My favorite arc is the Americana arc, I wish that one could have been longer. I also love the Page sisters and really hope we see them again. Just to be clear, after the Great Fables Crossover, Jack of Fables 38 thru 40, wraps up Jack Horner’s story and sets up the new premise of the series.

Mark: “There’s a lack of LGBT characters, but I’d like to think of that more as there just not being an organic way to bring that into the series up until now. Rose Red has mentioned a few girl/girl moments in her past, though.”

It’s funny you brought that up because my boyfriend once asked Willingham if there would ever be any LGBT characters and he just kind of looked amused, scoffed and sardonically said: “I don’t think there are any gay fable characters.” And I just thought to myself, “Yeah, because the Seven Dwarves ‘really’ raped Snow White, one of these fables ‘really’ conquered all of the other fable worlds, etc.” I just thought it was silly that he’d have that kind of reaction to the mention of an LGBT-related issue; as if sexual orientation/preference has to remain “untouched” and totally closed off to interpretation because, well, you know, the default orientation/preference (whenever sexuality isn’t mentioned) has to be heterosexuality, right?

SaPEstrada: That’s a bit discouraging the hear.

I’m totally okay with the fact that all of the relationships we’ve seen so far have been heterosexual. Really, we haven’t seen that many relationships, and all of the ones we’ve seen are more specific to the characters than to sexuality. I’d hate for any author to feel they need to force in a same sex couple into any work of fiction.

That being said, there are plenty of possibilities to organically bring in an LGBT character. Willingham is skilled at taking the original tales and putting a unique spin on them. To have an LGBT relationship portrayed in the comic like the ones we have seen so far (i.e. organically and meaningful) would be interesting.

To be fair, he kind of caught himself, recovered and added, “Well, we’ll just have to see.”

I totally agree; I by no means want him to include LGBT characters or LGBT elements just because he needs to appease me or my boyfriend or the LGBT community. As you said, it should be organically and meaningful. And obviously, I’m still here reading the comic because it consistently tells the best tales in comics today.

*it should be done. Sorry for the double post; just hate seeing that type of mistake. : )

I think one reason the LGBT issue could be injected is one of the many jilted ladies who have been with Prince Charming. Also, if Goldilocks is so experimental one can’t help but wonder why she hasn’t also played for both teams at times. The three ‘lesser’ developed female characters of Rose Red, Briar Rose and Beauty could use some more distinguishing characters I’d say. I suppose one reason this crossed my mind is due to Willingham’s admitted rightwing perspective and conservatives aren’t, in-general, very tolerant of what they view as ‘alternative’ lifestyles. I do agree that it should be ‘organic’ and not forced or put in as a token kind of thing.

One gets the feeling that Cinderella’s ‘assistant’ who runs her shoe store might be at the very least metrosexual though. This series may not attract male audiences (like Wonder Woman, who seems to have never sold well even if the writer/artist team is a popular one), but it is really pretty good so far.

Yeah Jack of Fables did inject the Native American thing as Mark points out, but was pretty limited. I mean this is the Americas afterall!

I’ve got to agree with those who are wondering why the Jack of Fables series continued after the Great Crossover, since pretty much every plot line got wrapped up by that story. At this point, the series seems pointless, I had been enjoying it before the major change in status quo.

Firstly – I can’t believe Willingham’s prettified Frau Totenkinder. Bah!

I’m sure Fables is streets ahead of most mainstream superhero stuff: Willingham is a fun writer, and when he does what he seems to be best at (taut, tricksy spy stories) it probably works just as well with a woman in the lead – sounds like Cinderella falls into this camp. Nevertheless, I’m inclined to agree with Adamantium Wholesaler, though I’d add that the biggest problem Willingham seems to have isn’t so much with the women in the comic – problematic though they are – as with that mysterious creature, the ‘female reader’.

Here’s the sad tale of my lost fondness for Fables: the first trade I bought (after skimming the others in bookshops) was the Boy Blue in Fablelands arc. I still think this was fantastic: a solid chunk of justice being served at the hands of an aged choirboy-lookalike with a really big sword, a pretty smart take on various fairytale locales, and gorgeous art – I do agree that Buckingham’s Tintin-meets-Errol-le-Cain stuff is a perfect fit. I liked it so much, in fact, that I bought the next trade. This, likewise, had some of the snappy adventuring Willingham does well (also, naked wolf-fighting). Then Bigby Wolf gets dragged back home after a three-year snit, and after a token telling-off from Snow, we get a Big Wedding Scene. The real problem, though, was the description in Willingham’s script, which was printed at the back. I don’t have it on me to quote, but the gist was ‘Right, Mark, this wedding is what all the female readers have been waiting for since the very start of Fables. Better get it right!’. Yeech. And here I thought I was in it for the wolf-fighting.

I realise it’s a bit below the belt to pick apart a script rather than the comic itself, but I don’t think it’s unfair to suggest that ‘pandering to a demographic’ tends to drag on a narrative rather than, y’know, propel it – even when that demographic is apparently ‘sappy chicks’ as opposed to ‘drooling teenage boys’ – and I think the handling of the Bigby-Snow relationship bears this out. It had a great hook (She’s an uptight bureaucrat with LV luggage! He’s the Big Bad Wolf!) but lousy execution: they have your standard opposites-attract dynamic … then they have amnesiac enchanted sex … then many many babies … then an interlude where Bigby vanishes for a few years … aaand then a fairytale wedding. It’s not that I object to the portrayal of a complex relationship, but this ended up being pretty much the opposite: Willingham shunted the characters towards their pre-ordained, female-friendly big ol’ wedding (complete with many, many cute babies) without ever, say, addressing the fact that their first and, as far as we know, only hook-up was the deeply weird instantly-forgotten-forest-tryst. I’m a sucker for big-wedding-moments, but this one seemed baffling unearned, and to learn that it was apparently meant to be Willingham’s special reward to me, the female reader, was enough to put me off the series for good. Well, that and Bigby’s Israel speech. Yeah. ‘Yeech’ doesn’t begin to cover that one.

Also, if Goldilocks is so experimental one can’t help but wonder why she hasn’t also played for both teams at times.

Because homosexuality and bestiality go hand in hand?

I think you can see why it would be wise for Willingham not to go down that road.

This series may not attract male audiences (like Wonder Woman, who seems to have never sold well even if the writer/artist team is a popular one), but it is really pretty good so far.

What would ever give you the impression it doesn’t attract male audiences?

*bafflingly.

Funky Green: I agree. I wouldn’t categorise the series as being ‘for women’ or ‘for men’.
I haven’t counted, but I guess the forum members commenting so far have been ‘many men, many women’ – I couldn’t say what the actual ratio is, nor do I care. Same goes for the comic readership ratio.
My concern is – is the comic good or not? I think it’s good. If it brings more women into comics, so much the better. I guess that’s one of the messages that comes out of this article and thread.

Sorry, that last comment should have carried my name – it usually does automatically when I log on to this site. P.

I like Fables. It’s pretty decent. I especially liked the Homelands arc. And I think it has gotten better over time. I don’t think its on par with ‘Watchmen’ or ‘Y the Last Man’ like many people have contended but to each his own.

And @Seldon I think a bit of why the big wedding in Fables #50 felt unearned to you was because, if I read correctly, you are reading Fables in trade form. This is a serial comic. It understand entirely why Willingham did a big wedding for the 50th issue. Its a great payoff to years of romantic build-up. Its equivalent to killing the badguy at the end of a revenge plot. The readers want a fantasy resolution. It IS a fantasy book after all.

And most male readers aren’t interested in romantic plots. Hence the “all the female readers have been waiting for” line. I mean, its silly to think a writer doesn’t take his readership into account. He’s trying to sell a comicbook here. Are you really gunna tell me girls don’t love ‘happily ever after’ resolutions as much as guys like the ‘bad guy gets it in the end’ resolutions?

Also, pretty or no, Frau Totenkinder is a badass. She’s a great character regardless of what she looks like.

This is a serial comic. It understand entirely why Willingham did a big wedding for the 50th issue. Its a great payoff to years of romantic build-up. Its equivalent to killing the badguy at the end of a revenge plot. The readers want a fantasy resolution. It IS a fantasy book after all.

That makes no sense.

Reading in trade, it took as long as it did in single issues to read the exact same story.

The only difference, is that at the end of the wedding, the single had a ‘thanks for reading’ message, and the trade didn’t.
(They left it in the script reprint at the back though… maybe it was meant to shame us dirty trade readers into buying the singles or something)

And most male readers aren’t interested in romantic plots. Hence the “all the female readers have been waiting for” line. I mean, its silly to think a writer doesn’t take his readership into account. He’s trying to sell a comicbook here. Are you really gunna tell me girls don’t love ‘happily ever after’ resolutions as much as guys like the ‘bad guy gets it in the end’ resolutions?

Before more generalizing the sexes and what they like reading – heck, I’m a guy, and I enjoyed the Bigby/Snow relationship… I’d assume everyone regardless of genger did, it was the focus of the book – or more outrage at a line a conservative wrote… he was probably just making a joke.

@funkygreen

See you are not getting the trade/serial factor. What you or I read in a trade in one sitting is a COMPLETELY different experience than someone reading bit by bit over a series of months. Watching characters and plots unfold themselves in a serial comic is totally different than reading it in a trade. It just is.

Now, I love trades. It lets me keep up with books like Fables. But You have to understand that a serial comic is not made to be read in trade form.

Also, I love romantic plots. I’m a guy. And girls can love action movies. But lets not fool ourselves into thinking I would ever write Harry Potter slash fiction.

Men and Women have different interests. Its just the way things work. Women are going to flock to romantic comedies and conversely men will watch ninjas stick each other with swords. If you want to get into the complexities of gender and how and why be my guest but I think its safe to say we can do a small amount of generalizing sometimes.

Watching characters and plots unfold themselves in a serial comic is totally different than reading it in a trade. It just is.

As compelling as the argument ‘It just is’ is, I don’t even understand what you are trying to say.

Yes, there is a difference between the reading experience between singles and trades, however, I do not buy at all you assertion that the singles readers are more attached to the characters, or that if someone thinks a wedding at #50 was poorly placed, that their opinion is off because of the format they read it in.

Now, I love trades. It lets me keep up with books like Fables. But You have to understand that a serial comic is not made to be read in trade form.

Except with Vertigo, where the series are released to be loss leaders for the eventual collections… their publishing model is based around trades.

And you might have noticed that Fables isn’t exactly the cliffhanger driven series in the world – as Greg Burgas often mentions in his reviews of the series, not much tends to happen in the individual single issues.

Whilst some series there is a definite difference in singles format, with other series, not so much.

My point with the ‘singles vs trade’ argument is that pacing is incredibly different. With a trade there is less anticipation, less time to let the characters stew, less time to rehash plot point with your freinds etc… So while the events in trade and in the singles are identical the time spent with the characters are often less.

Here is an analogy:

Lets take the Harry Potter fandom since many people are familiar with it. If a person went out and read the entire Harry Potter series in the span of a couple of months do you think their experience with the story and characters would be the same as somebody who had read the books as they were published? The former spent several months with the world and its characters where as the latter lived with the material for years, a decade with years of anticipation between books and countless conversations with friends. And in many cases the latter reader would reread the books in anticipation for one that is about to come out… and so on and so forth.

Its not the same experience.

And to answer “funkygreen” more directly I do not think someone who reads the trades does not have a valid opinion of the material (in fact my experience with Fables is mostly through trade) I just think it will invariably be different.

My entire reason for posting was to point that out. Often pacing problems arise from people that only read in trade. Its unfortunate, but it happens. I also felt that Bigby/Snow relationship could have used a bit fleshing out when I first read it… but then caught myself and reminded myself that maybe I would have had a different experience had I not read ten trades in a matter of three days.

With a trade there is less anticipation, less time to let the characters stew, less time to rehash plot point with your freinds etc… So while the events in trade and in the singles are identical the time spent with the characters are often less.

That may affect individual story lines, but as a whole, it’s the exact same amount of time, but with different breaks in the series.

I also felt that Bigby/Snow relationship could have used a bit fleshing out when I first read it… but then caught myself and reminded myself that maybe I would have had a different experience had I not read ten trades in a matter of three days.

Well, having read the trades as they were released, it didn’t feel rushed at all.

I dare say if you read/watch all of anything in three days, it will feel a bit rushed in places.

Also, I’d like to state my love for Kelly Thompson’s blog here. I respect her opinion and I would like to think I have a Feminist hiding somewhere deep in the recesses of my heart. And I find anything that turns gender perceptions on its ear to be cool beyond all reason (ie one of the reasons for my love of Y the Last Man etc).

I think I’ve not given this series enough time to grow on me. The more I think about it the more I like it. It doesn’t blatantly fly in the face of excepted perceptions of gender… but its almost subversive. Like Frau Totenkinder and Cinderella and most of the characters in this book… Its definitely more than it seems.

And I’d I never would have read it had Kelly not talked about it on her blog so much. So, thanks.

As a side question here, what do people think of the whole ‘the more stories the more power’ bit? What exactly is the nature of Fable-kind? I really like how indirectly this is explained. And is Frau Totenkinder just from one story or is she every nameless witch from every story? How was she able to beat Baba Yaga? It really is a rich universe…

“but as a whole, it’s the exact same amount of time, but with different breaks in the series.”

Exactly. And this, if you see it, is my point. The reading experience for each person can be immensely varied sometimes and is dependent on many many different factors. I hold that the reading experience for one reading the trades is vastly different than one reading it in singles issues or a combination thereof.

I think, and this is just my opinion, but I think that the ‘trades vs singles’ thing should be taken into consideration more often than it often is. Especially in concerns to something like build-up and payoff. Fables #50 was something of a landmark issue. Many books don’t make it to 50 and I understand the author wanting to commemorate it with a big payoff. Bigby and Snow’s relationship had been going on for, if this was a monthly, maybe about four years. That’s a long time for a comic.

Funky, point taken regarding bestiality and homosexuality, BUT we’re talking Fables and their animals speak and think and so some room remains in terms of relating that as simply bestiality. A real bear would not be so kind to Goldilocks.

As for Cinderella, a few things. Males predominate the comic buying audience and comics about female characters, however good, don’t make it very high up the sales charts. Wonder Woman and Alan Moore’s Promethea never got very high up the charts. Regardless, main point being Cinderella is a good comic that deserves a bigger audience.

Men and boy comprise the base of comic book readers. If a book doesn’t sell well, one one can assume it doesn’t jive with its base. This is not always true.

But its a perfectly logical assumption nonetheless.

It’s been a full week now, and this column is still getting more comments than anything else on Comics Should Be Good. Wow, Kelly, you really know how to stir people’s passions, and you do it without any sort of sensationalism. You are amazing.

[...] Source: Comic Book Resources [...]

@Mary: Thanks Mary. I think it’s a great sign that these SHNH posts get such great comments and in such high numbers, even when the subject matter is not particularly incendiary. I’m sure the comments are less to do with me and more to do with interest in the subject matter, which tells me that people really are interested in great female characters and stories, and I couldn’t be happier about that. It’s really exciting. Of course, I must credit CBR’s coverage for giving this post new life since they featured it on the home page over the weekend. Thanks CBR.

Funky, point taken regarding bestiality and homosexuality, BUT we’re talking Fables and their animals speak and think and so some room remains in terms of relating that as simply bestiality. A real bear would not be so kind to Goldilocks.

We know what Fables is like, but from the creators point of view, that would be like painting a big red target on your back – LGBT groups wouldn’t like the implication, and you wouldn’t exactly endear yourself to anti-gay groups by featuring bestiality.
Unless they had a heck of a storyline around it, I just couldn’t see it being worth the hassle for them.

[...] #92 – Kelly Thompson of She Has No Head! praised the Fables series in her write-up of Ten Women of Fables that I had to pick up an issue. With all the characters based on fairy tale stories it certainly has [...]

[...] about Fables…WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?  Learn more now.  And here’s a cool list I did for She Has No Head! about Ten Women Of Fables. [...]