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You Decide ’11 – Daredevil/Captain America Fight!

Each day this month, I’ll be posting a different poll question – each poll will last five days, and I’ll reveal the results of the finished polls every Tuesday.

This way, for this month, we can see what our readers feel about various comic book questions. For a month, you folks will decide! Click here to see the other questions that you can answer as well as checking out the latest poll results!

Read on for the latest poll question!

NOTE: Reader Martin has let me know that his browser has been blocking out the PollDaddy script in these posts. So if your browser blocks scripts in a similar fashion, make sure to configure it so that you can see the script in this page so that you can vote!


43 Comments

For me the problem with this poll is hasn’t it already been indicated in-story that Daredevil is outmatched by Captain America? That’s the impression I got from reading Born Again, that based on DD’s mental impressions of Cap he felt that if they ever went at it he’d be outmatched.

I’m going off of memory but I could have sworn I remember DD in Born Again trying to fight Cap but Cap holding back. Once Cap started taking off the kid gloves, DD bolted but Cap easily caught up with him and overtook him.

This is an odd one.

Unless there’ve been dramatic new developments in Daredevil in the last couple of years that I’m unaware of, I thought it was understood that Cap is the best fighter in the Marvel U. (and definitely superior in strength and endurance to DD).

Unless, are we talking about Bucky/Cap?

Oh well, too late, already voted. Sorry, Hornhead.

Yeah, I don’t really see this as much of a question. I’m not saying in-story a writer couldn’t find a way for DD to beat Cap in a fight — heck, he could beat the Hulk or even Galactus if the writer really wanted him to. Matt did beat Ultron to death with a stick that one time. But in general, Cap would wipe the floor with him.

Mind you, I automatically think of Steve Rogers for this question. If we’re talking about Bucky, DD might have an edge. Not that Bucky doesn’t have years of combat experience and all that, but really, so does Matt at this point.

Cap, without a doubt. DD’s powers neutralizes Caps shield throwing abilities. DD could concievably match Cap’s speed, prowess and acrobatic skills. But the Super Soldier formula gives Cap the strength advantage, and an extra 30 odd years of fighting experience gives Cap the win.

And, as Dhole and Buttler mentioned, I’m assuming the Steve Rogers Cap.

Oooh, good point. Are we talking Bucky Cap or Steve Cap? Because that I could see being a close call.

Now BATMAN and Cap, that’s a lot more interesting to me. You’d think it’d still be Cap, but Batman .. well, he’s Batman. He’d find a way to win. Heck, even with Superman vs. Batman, my money would still be on Batman.

Sorry, meant to specific James Barnes as Cap, since Steve isn’t Cap anymore, but I should have made that clear! I’ll edit that in.

So are we talking T’Challa as DD, or …

Steve > Matt > Bucky

I voted DD… Steve did beat the crap out of Matt in Streets of Poison tho… but I guess that’s irrelevant.

(Can’t wait for Daredevil to get his title back)

Are you going to do Dick Grayson Batman vs. Bucky Cap ?

Does Bucky get a sidearm, or just the shield? What about a knife? He’s shown he can beat a more acrobatic combatant (Black Widow), but not one with actual superpowers, so unless he’s able to get the drop on him (doubtful), I’d have to go with Matt in a straight hand to hand fight.

Just curious if anyone else ever thinks of the old TSR Marvel Role Playing Game for questions like this.

I remember their handbook ranking Steve Rogers/Cap, Black Panther and Punisher at the same Fighting level (Amazing), just one level above Daredevil, Wolverine, Iron Fist and the Thing (Incredible). They were often way, way off with assigning certain rankings but back in the 80’s I found those particular Fighting ones pretty feasible.

I imagine Bucky/Cap would be ranked at Incredible Fighting in that game…

I never played that game, but I certainly remember comparing the quantified strength levels of various characters in the original Official Handbook to the Marvel Universe.

The funny thing is that now Marvel characters talk that way all the time. I remember quantified power levels coming up a lot in “Siege,” for instance. I’m guessing the writers probably grew up on those games.

I think those rankings are questionable. It’s been shown by various writers that in straight hand-to-hand Daredevil completely owns the Punisher.

I was going with the Spider-Man analysis on this one – Ergo: DD always seemed a little “cowed” with the prospect of fighting Spider-Man, even that time when he neaturalized Spidey’s Spider-Sense, and Cap and a fully empowered Spidey (complete with Iron Spider armor) fought to a standstill in Civil War (even though I still think Cap would have a hard time fighting a human with the strength/speed of a spider) so Cap should win hands down in this one but then I remembered this is Bucky Cap we’re talking about and then I wondered if he was allowed to use his gun and I never was really clear on what the Winter Soldier’s actual “powers” were and etc., etc., etc . . .

Next thing I know, I remembered that I was at work and had blown clear through my afternoon break, so I just made the best decision I could and voted for Bucky Cap . . . . but now I have regrets.

Damn you Cronin!!!!

I think back in the 80’s (at least during Frank Miller’s Child’s Play story) Punisher was shown to be pretty intimidating to DD, so they may have based their ranking on that (and as a kid I found no reason to dispute it). But I agree since then Punisher’s been shown to be less than DD’s equal (and certainly not Cap’s).

I always found it bizarre but also cool that Thing was ranked equal to DD, Wolverine and Iron Fist. That game could be a little wonky but also a lot of fun, too.

If it were just hand to hand, I think Bucky can eke it out by virtue of using his bionic arm. If we bring into account some prep work and equipment, I think Buck takes it easily. I know DD’s got some super-senses, but if Bucky uses grenades, firearms and the shield, DD’s not gonna make it.

I think it’s criminal how much they’ve de-powered the Thing over the years. He was portrayed as being a real powerhouse back in the days of his Kirby-esque glory – a worthy opponent of the Hulk (if not an actual match for him).

Now, he languishes somewhere in that Spider-Man/Colussus power class at best – and you’re right dhole, he’s even categorized down in the DD/Wolverine area at times.

That’s no way to treat Aunt Petunia’s favorite blue-eyed nephew!

Actually I think he’s been demoted to Aunt Petunia’s second favorite blue-eyed nephew with the introduction of Milo Grimm, Ben’s half-brother from the future, who inevitably is somehow related to the Summers clan.

From the very beginning of Marvel, it has always been Thing vs Hulk for the title of mightiest mortal. (Not counting gods, celestials, etc.) Spider-Man was always portrayed as being at the top of the second division.

Just how super the super soldier syrup makes Cap has varied wildly over the decades.

Daredevil fought the Hulk and Namor in the early years, then spent a long time getting bested by muggers and minions. Since his ninja upgrade, he seems to be more formidable.

Does Bucky’s arm do any tricks?

“and you’re right dhole, he’s even categorized down in the DD/Wolverine area at times.”

Sorry I wasn’t clear, the TSR game ranked Thing in the same league as DD, Wolvie, etc. in the Fighting category, which was just one category for a character’s stats, along with other stuff like Agility, Strength, Endurance, etc.

The Fighting rank specifically influenced the roll of the dice to increase the odds of a character hitting someone with an attempted punch or kick (similar to D&D). The damage was determined by Strength level, of which the Thing had the second highest rank (Monstrous), along with Colossus and Sasquatch, which was one level under Hulk, Thor, Hercules, Wonder Man…(Unearthly)

So actually his ranking in that specific Fighting category was pretty high praise, as it suggested his hand-to-hand skills were on the level of guys like DD and Wolvie, meanwhile the damage inflicted by his strength ranked with Colossus. So he was pretty tough in that game.

Forgive my rambling about the intricacies of a decades-old quaint little pencil-pushing, die-rolling RPG. It’s all just bringing back nifty memories.

am i the only one who was like who is James Barnes?

Leslie Fontenelle

February 23, 2011 at 9:41 pm

Daredevil would completely thrash BuckyCap. If DD could survive a fight against the Hulk, Buckap’s bionic arm wouldn’t be all that impressive. Guns? DD can dodge bullets, and even ‘whack’ them back at the shooter with his billy clubs. BuckyCap is good but he’s definitely not at the same leve as the original Captain America. If we were talking Steve Rogers it would be Cap all the way, but his replacement is clearly an inferior model.

And the Black Widow would not be amused to see her old boyfriend kicking her new boyfriend’s arse all over the playground, but that’s how the cookie crumbles. Here’s another question for you, since we’re pitching Black WIdow’s old boyfriends against each other: <b<Who would win a fight between Hawkeye (Clint Barton) and Captain America (Bucky Barnes)? I dunno about you guys, but my money’s on Clint. ;)

Leslie Fontenelle

February 23, 2011 at 9:42 pm

Argh, I really screwed up the formatting there. :(

I like Daredevil more than Bucky or Cap or BuckyCap, but he gets the crap beat out of him a lot.

Just based on their track records I gotta go with Cap.

Brian – I think it might be best if you restart the poll. Too many people (me included) have just assumed Steve Rogers and voted accordingly.

Brian – I think it might be best if you restart the poll. Too many people (me included) have just assumed Steve Rogers and voted accordingly.

I did reset the poll after I put James Barnes in there (only about 30 people had voted by then, so it wasn’t a big deal).

Ah – that’s not so bad then. All the same I voted after the change and I still didn’t spot the James Barnes thing so I suspect there’ll still be a few accidental votes.

Yeah, DD vs. Steve Rogers is a settled deal in the comics themselkves: they’ve fought three times — once in the Silver Age, once in Born Again, and once during Streets of Poison in Cap’s title. All three times, Daredevil’s been shown as the likely or explicit loser in the fight.

James Barnes, though? Frankly, I’m having trouble thinking of many fights he’s won period since becoming Cap. It seems the brainwashed Winter Soldier was miles more effective than the traumatized, conflicted James Barnes as Captain America.

I’d give it to DD in a walk there, and have re-voted accordingly.

“So actually his ranking in that specific Fighting category was pretty high praise, as it suggested his hand-to-hand skills were on the level of guys like DD and Wolvie, meanwhile the damage inflicted by his strength ranked with Colossus. So he was pretty tough in that game.”

Some of this is coming back to me now as well – I had general awareness of how the game worked through friends, though I never actually owned it myself. That aside, however, the game wasn’t the only area where I thought our dear Mr. Grimm was being underestimated – the comics have been far more guilty than that over the years than the game ever was. And it’s ironic how it seems like the Thing’s size over the years has increased in step with his strength decreasing. The early Kirby Thing was extremely powerful, but only about as big as Michael Chiklis (I’m probably mauling the spelling of his last name) portrayed him in the movie (which was about the only role in that movie that wasn’t spectacularly mis-cast). Now he’s about as big as a house and gets pushed around by everyone this side of She-Hulk.

“Forgive my rambling about the intricacies of a decades-old quaint little pencil-pushing, die-rolling RPG. It’s all just bringing back nifty memories.”

And that’s what makes this all so much fun!!!

How things change. Steve-Cap fought the Scorpion twice in the early 1970s, and at the time even the letter columns recognized that someone who poised a challenge to Spider-Man would be more than a match for Captain America.

Incidentally, Steve-Cap and particularly Punisher can’t possibly match, much less surpass, the martial prowess of Iron Fist. And no way Thing is in the same class as him or DD, either.

As for Daredevil, I wonder if we shouldn’t discuss how balanced he is supposed to be at the time of the fight. Ever since Noccenti (arguably Miller even) his competence is a direct consequence of his mental state.

Which, btw, I find both an interesting and realistic development.

And the Black Widow would not be amused to see her old boyfriend kicking her new boyfriend’s arse all over the playground, but that’s how the cookie crumbles.

She is probably getting used to it by now. Have you read the original Daredevil #99?

Here’s another question for you, since we’re pitching Black WIdow’s old boyfriends against each other: <b<Who would win a fight between Hawkeye (Clint Barton) and Captain America (Bucky Barnes)? I dunno about you guys, but my money’s on Clint. ;),

Realistically, the ranged weapons should make a lot of difference. But comics are hardly realistic in this respect.

I can’t bring myself to vote on this one. In 39 years of collecting & reading comics, I’ve never cared about the continual “who’s stronger?” or “who could beat whom?” debates. They’re heroes, they unite, not take on each other. (There’s rarely a compelling reason for super-heroes to fight each other, aside from one or both being dicks.) I was less than interested in Marvel vs. DC and had a brief conversation going in CBG at the time. (I even had a cartoon in there with my version: Forbush Man and ‘Mazing Man literally run into each other, then settle in to read stacks of comic books together.) I know, I’m odd…

I’m of course a Cap fan, and love Bucky, but Matt would take this, Bucky’s enhanced one arm strength would help, but Matt is probably on the short list of best fighters in the Marvel universe below Steve Rogers (a list that includes Shang Chi, T’Challa and Iron Fist, but above Wolverine, Black Widow and others) Bucky is not nearly that good, even with his natural abilities, and his practical fight sense (meaning he goes in to end the fight as fast as possible instead of trying to prolong it-more trained street fighter style) he wouldn’t stand a chance against Daredevil (Matt or T’Challa) in a straight up fight.

The old TSR game had a lot of charm. It was a guilty pleasure of mine. But there was a bit of strangeness in some of the rankings and rules.

Immortals like Thor and Hercules had Unearthly (100) Fighting. So Thor was much more skilled at hand-to-hand combat than Captain America, something that feels off to me.

I also never liked fixed damage in RPGs. It meant the Thing with his Monstrous (75) Strength could never hurt the Hulk, with Unearthly (100) Invulnerability. Except if Ben used some trick to enhance his damage, the Hulk would not even feel his blows. It doesn’t seem to match with the comics, even with the Thing’s general decay in relative power as noted by Ed.

Go back to good questions.

Speaking of Iron Fist, he has more of a claim to having been Daredevil than Tchalla does. Remember, he subbed for Matt for a fair while just before Civil War.

And really, he is a far better fighter than most anyone mentioned here, except Shang Chi. He must be, in order to face the likes of Batroc and Sabretooth.

Rene,

Thor would beat the crap out of Cap in a boxing match, or unarmed in an alley, thats why his Fighting skill was unearthly.

captainthundercats

February 27, 2011 at 7:15 pm

bucaptain americy has a robot arm. it makes more noise than an organic arm. daredevil hears stuff real good. that should do it. the problem with daredevil is that if you know he has super senses thats kinda easy to beat. if you take away his hearing i don’t think his super taste buds would compensate. that said, matt wins straight up.

Hell Red Robin would beat Bucky Cap. He’s a spy/soldier, not much experience in the super-hero thing.

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