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Batman versus Superman in Justice League #2!

It took five issues the last time Jim Lee drew Batman to pit the Caped Crusader against the Man of Tomorrow, but the idea is so neat that it appears to be showing up in the second issue of the new Justice League!

DC has released the solicits for the second issues of their Justice League titles as well as their teen hero titles. Let’s take a look see!

It is interesting to note how DC is making a concerted effort to release a goodly amount of teen superhero titles.

Things are still way too vague (I don’t mean that in a bad way, just noting that they are, quite intentionally I’m sure, being quite vague) with most of these books, so I’ll just share the covers…

What is around Red Robin’s neck there? Is that part of his costume?

The second issue of Wonder Woman, with Wonder Woman facing off against the goddess of discord, sounds so awesome.

Cliff Chiang is amazing (Brian Azzarello is good too, of course, as readers of Batman: Knight of Vengeance are currently witnessing – how amazing, if cruelly twisted, was the twists and turns in the latest issue?).

I don’t get this Green Arrow cover. That’s not Green Arrow, is it?

I love that Levitz seems to be pretty much left alone on his Legion book to do the same high quality stories he was doing before the reboot.

And Nicieza’s Legion Lost series sounds intriguing (especially with the brilliant Pete Woods on art). I worry about dead Legionnaires, though!

I have great faith in Francis Manapul, and I am pleased to see such an interesting solicitation for Flash #2:

The Fastest Man Alive learns he can make his brain function even faster than before – but as much as it helps him, it also comes with a steep price.

Aquaman #2 and Justice League International #2 both have some pretty sweet covers…

As does DC Universe Presents #2 (Ryan Sook is the best)…

Here are the covers for the other remaining titles, Captain Atom #2, Savage Hawkman #2 and Mister Terrific #2…

54 Comments

I’m on to you Cronin. I can see you barely holding back your desire to turn this into a full-fledged revival of Judging Books by their Covers.

Superman has a great “Woops. This isn’t what it looks like, reader” look on his face on that JL cover. The Flash and Wonder Woman still look the most interesting of the lot (based on their covers, anyway).

Alright, yeah, Superman versus errr Batman, sounds uhh awesome. Yeah, awesome, that’s the ticket…

Battle of the Giant Metallic Kneepads. Super.

Also: Wonder Woman is back in pants! Let the internet nerd rage debate reignite!

Pros: Wonder Woman and the Flash look amazing, and Mr. Terrific and Static have eye-popping covers.

Cons: Why can’t we get an issue of Superman and Batman having a beer together? Geez. Also, I think the solicit for Aquaman describes part of the issue as being “not for the squeamish.” Why? I would actually buy an Aquaman book if it didn’t try to turn one of the funnest, goofiest Silver Age heroes of all time into a grim n gritty avenger. Sigh.

It took five issues the last time Jim Lee drew Batman to pit the Caped Crusader against the Man of Tomorrow, but the idea is so neat that it appears to be showing up in the second issue of the new Justice League!

Is this sarcasm? Because ever since Dark Knight Returns, this has been one of the most overused, tired and predictable tropes of DC, as well as one of the consistently worst executed. And we all know how it will likely play out. Hey, who knows, maybe Johns will surprise me and do something new with the trope.

My big problem with DC in recent decades is how far its gone with its fetishization of nonpowered superheroes. It used to be that it was admirable to show nonpowered superheroes just keeping up with the likes of superheroes, or even one-upping them once in a while. The past few decades at DC, there’s been so much overcompensation in favor of nonpowered types that now when I see these fights it’s almost like the superpowered person is the underdog and needs a handicap. They still pretend that nonpowered heroes are the underdog, but in practice its been the reverse so long that if Superman were to win this or even have a draw I’d feel like it was a major upset.

An example of how entrenched this mindset is at DC can be seen in the Deathstroke/JLA fight in Identity Crisis. I predicted before it started that not only would nonpowered Deathstroke make the JLA look like chumps but that of the heroes facing him, the least powered heroes would do better against him than the more powerful ones, and I ended up being right on both counts.

This trope is even showing up in the cartoon adaptation, such as when Black Canary smacks Superboy around like a rag doll in Young Justice.

That new facial hair and hairstyle for Green Arrow makes him look like one of those douches from a 1990s Mountain Dew commercial.

“Do The Dew!”

I think I saw the guy they modeled the pic after fondling female concertgoers during the Limp Bizkit portion of the 90s Woodstock show while they bodysurfed.

I swear, when they hired Bob Harras did they revive him from a cryogenic suspension he went into from the moment he left Marvel in the 1990s? Because I swear it’s like he never left the 90s based on the creative choices I keep seeing here.

wtf???
Batman and Superman are the best PALS forever!!!
They would never fight because they are GOOD GUYS.

Just ask Axe Cop. (or read good Superman comics, like anything before the 70ies)

And hey AZZ: that’s Eris, not Discord.

@Roman: Superman and Batman can’t have a beer together because the idiot backlash would be tremendous. DC already tried to show Superman having a brew with his father and DC took so much flak for it they wound up throwing soda labels on the bottles to appease the mob. Remember Roman, Superman and Batman can beat one another into a bloody pulp, but beer, that is strictly verboten my friend.

As an aside, I do think it would be out of character for Batman to have a casual beer. I don’t think he would allow his guard to be dulled even that little bit.

Also no more freaking bathing suit. Hooray!
(seriously anything but the bathing suit – unless she goes swimming…)

@Cass:
Ha, I forgot about that issue of Action. You’re also right about Batman – I seem to remember reading an issue of Batman where Bruce was attending some charity gala and he poured all the champagne he was offered into a bunch of potted plants.

Haaahahahaha!
Superman’s like “Whatever, dude.”

Just because Superman and Superboy don’t annihilate people with just a twitch of their index finger, doesn’t mean DC is doing what you say.

Everyone knows Superman could whoop Batman’s ass, but it’s not fun to see him do that. It’d mean nothing to see someone with God Powers beat a human. It’s just entirely more compelling to see how a human would beat a God.

Yeah, Bruce Wayne doesn’t drink. That point was nicely handled in The Dark Knight Returns when soon-to-retire Commissioner Gordon recalls how — unlike heavy drinker Old Man Bruce — Wayne wasn’t fooling him with his ginger ale or whatever.

That is one hilarious Ollie Queen redesign. And hey, Superboy vs. ASBAR Bats!

On a positive note, that Deadman cover is awesome. I like that Flash cover too, even if I’m unlikely to read the comic.

Billy Bissette

July 14, 2011 at 2:58 pm

Sadly, thanks to sites like Comics Alliance and Topless Robot, I cannot look at DCnU artwork without looking for genitalia images.

We already have the folds of Jason Todd’s outfit looking like a fully drawn package, which started the search. Then there was Deadshot’s stylized genitalia codpiece design. Then the more humorous “other object” placements, like Green Lantern’s crotch gun and Blackhawks #2’s crotch plane.

Comics Alliance close-up of Jason Todd’s little partner:
http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/07/12/jason-todd-red-hood/

Topless Robot further coverage of the “Penis Conspiracy”:
http://www.toplessrobot.com/2011/07/dc_is_more_penis-y_than_i_remember.php

I feel like the cover of Green Arrow is Connor Hawke rather than Ollie. That still doesn’t explain the whiskers.

The Manapul and Chiang covers and Legion covers look great.

Everyone knows Superman could whoop Batman’s ass, but it’s not fun to see him do that. It’d mean nothing to see someone with God Powers beat a human. It’s just entirely more compelling to see how a human would beat a God.

Yes, but if the nonpowered person pulls off the win every single time and with relative ease, that becomes just as boring, cliched and predictable as the superpowered guy always winning. I’m not saying the nonpowered person should always lose but he should lose at least some of the time. Now it’s not even like they have to pull out every dirty trick in their arsenal to do pull out the win anymore, they do it relatively easy. Besides, the desired underdog effect ends up getting negated over time because the nonpowered person wins so much, he doesn’t feel like an underdog anymore. After time the dirty open secret becomes that he actually is now the favorite to win and the superpowered person is the underdog, a mindset very prevalent among DC fans as seen by the voting results during the recent CSBG Batman vs. Thor poll.

Ricardo Amaral

July 14, 2011 at 3:58 pm

Where has Hawk’s foot gone? Liefeld really hates feet.
Johns is, with each month, proving to be the master king of shock-value comics. Why do we need plot and substance anyway? It’s much easier to use hero x hero or substitute one guy for another. When was the last time Geoff has written a proper story, one with beginning and end?
Green Arrow is basically the version from Smallville, visually. That’s what they are trying to bring to comics. There’s even a hint of a more “romantic” hero, as it was on TV.

@ T.

I get what you’re saying, I just don’t really agree.

Superman will never be the Underdog when fighting Batman. You might believe him to be, but everyone knows better than to think that. You can have Batman knock out Superman however many times you want, everyone still knows who would win in that fight.

…and i doubt the Thor vs. Batman poll, whatever that was, proves your point.

It just proves Batman is more popular and “cooler” in fans’ minds than Thor is.

@Sandbags: If memory serves, the poll was actually “who would win in a fight.”

Sandbags – simple question. When was the last time Superman beat up Batman?

When was the last time Batman beat up Superman?

That’s still nothing compared to the interestingly placed (and shaped) thumb on Benes’s JLA #1 cover, Billy.

http://comicsmedia.ign.com/comics/image/article/687/687674/after-the-crisis-20060209113006533.jpg

An example of how entrenched this mindset is at DC can be seen in the Deathstroke/JLA fight in Identity Crisis. I predicted before it started that not only would nonpowered Deathstroke make the JLA look like chumps but that of the heroes facing him, the least powered heroes would do better against him than the more powerful ones, and I ended up being right on both counts.

I don’t actually disagree with most of what you say, T, which I suspect will surprise some. But you’re flat out wrong here: Deathstroke is far from ‘non-powered’. He can use all 100% of his brain power (ie. the 90% that others can’t, which I know is actually been proved a falsehood since the ’80s) and his reflexes move at the speed of thought (or similar hyperbole.) Plus he has enhanced strength, speed and agility. He’s not non-powered like Batman. He’s superhuman, or metahuman or whatever.

@Cass: I realize the poll was something to the extent of “who would win in a fight” Still, in those polls I’d bet most people just voted on which character they particularly like more, which I completely believe happened in the “Batman vs. Thor” poll.

@Sean: Simple answer. I dunno, probably Dark Knight Returns. Way to miss my point!

Point is, you could do it EITHER WAY A MILLION TIMES….you still wouldn’t fool ANYONE into believing that Superman would ever be the underdog in a fight against a non-powered guy, such as Batman.

I didn’t mean to turn this into who would win between Superman and Batman, they just come to mind as the easiest examples to use to make my point.

I’m wondering whether that Wonder Woman cover will be re-released later without pants, like #1 – it already kind of looks like the colorist has just colored WW’s legs black.

Has DC ever addressed that all humans use 100% of their brain power? Sad that Snopes.com wasn’t around when they came up with Deathstroke.

Superman looks so bored.

funkygreenjerusalem

July 15, 2011 at 3:00 am

Alright, yeah, Superman versus errr Batman, sounds uhh awesome. Yeah, awesome, that’s the ticket…

What?
You want it to be back like it was back before the 80’s, where they used to pal around, team-up to fight crimes and teach odd trick based lessons to their sidekicks? When they’d dress up as each other for the slightest of pretenses? You wanna go back to the days when they’d only fight to make the villain think his mind control was working?
Didn’t you hear comics have grown up? Now the heroes have more issues with each other than the villains, and deal with it by beating each other into a pulp – that’s just how F##ing mature they are!

Then again, who am I kidding?
As much as I dig those goofy old comics, I do think a Geoff Johns/Jim Lee Superman/Batman fight will be pretty cool.

I wonder if this is a first meeting for the two, or in the early days of them knowing each other?

I do enjoy a good first meet for the two – Superman The Animated Series did a top job, Joe Kelly did a really great take in Superman/Batman Annual #1, and Keven J Anderson did a solid, 50’s set, first team up.
I’m sure there’s more I can’t remember.

TomerS:

Superman looks so bored.

Yeah, like he’s totally disinterested/disconnected from what’s happening.
It’s crude, but to me it looks like the face of someone in a porn – they’re going through the motions, and trying to look into it, but it’s still clear they aren’t.
Now I’m wondering if Jim Lee has taken a page from Greg Land’s book and started using porn mags as reference for faces! (Not really.)

Also, is his neck oddly disjointed?
Or is it one of those drawings where the anatomy looks weird, but is actually accurate?

Superdude1591

July 15, 2011 at 4:37 am

@ Sandbags – Batman has always had the upper hand on Superman in battle, Superman has never beaten Batman. The closest he got to beating him was in Batman: Hush and even then, Batman was the clear cut winner.

Look, we all know, at least the people who have sense, that Batman wouldn’t stand a chance against Superman, but it doesn’t make a good story. Batman beating Superman is man vs. mountain. Man vs. Goliath, man vs. god. Everyone has to agree that when we see this match-up, everyone knows that Batman is going to win. Batman is DC’s new golden boy, he’d take out the entire Justice League if he had to. That’s just how DC writes him, he’s Batgod now. And he never comes off as being overpowered because he has no powers.

But, yes, Batman vs. Superman should end with a Superman win in less than five second. A book written by DC comics will always have the opposite. I hate Geoff Johns, he has no nads to stand on. He’s not man enough to finally break the mold of Batman wins, we all know Batman is going to win this. I like how DC is playing it up so that it looks like he might actually lose. It makes me smile.

And hey AZZ: that’s Eris, not Discord.

To diverse gods
Do mortals bow;
Holy Cow, and
Wholly Chao.

On another note, in that cover of JL #2 with Batman v Supes (yawn), is Superman wearing a gold necklace or something, or is that supposed to be Wonder Woman’s lasso? I’m not sure what his redesigned costume looks like.

Other thoughts:

That DCU Presents #2 Deadman cover reminds me of an acid trip I had in 1997. Holy hell, that cover is awesome!

The creature on the cover of Aquaman #2 reminds me of my college girlfriend (not necessarily how she looked literally… more like what she would have looked like if you could actually see her soul)

The cover to Flash #2 would make a pretty good Excedrin print ad.

The more I think about it, the more forgiveable revisiting Batman vs. Superman becomes.

I forgot this book is set in the past and is a JLA origin story, so being that they’re first meeting that’s not so bad. Also, I forgot that Johns isn’t as big a believer in “Batgod” as some of the other DC writers. Now that I remember that, it gives me hope for a less ridiculous outcome.

Also, I forgot that Johns isn’t as big a believer in “Batgod” as some of the other DC writers. Now that I remember that, it gives me hope for a less ridiculous outcome.

What are the odds that Johns has Superman do something like rip Batman’s arm completely off, ya know, for “shock value”, and then use his heat and microscopic vision to rebond it to Batman? 50/50?

I never get tired of the old “no reasonable person would think Superman could lose this fight” line of pseudo-argument. It’s as hilariously played-out as the “PREP TIME” shouting on the other side. As people have pointed out previously, Batman has a better win record because a) he’s more popular and b) it’s more entertaining.

Regardless of writers’ opinions, Batman won the real-world marketability war by a mile – not that it’s hard to beat Supes in that department. Poor guy.

As people have pointed out previously, Batman has a better win record because a) he’s more popular and b) it’s more entertaining.

Ii wouldn’t say it’s automatically more entertaining. Only if done well and semi-plausibly. When it requires bad leaps of logic and Superman to act like a moron in order to get the win then it’s done badly.

I think that’s the problem DC has, they assume the underdog on paper winning is so automatically more entertaining that many writers check their brains out at the door when writing it.

Here’s an example, Daredevil had a classic comic where he got trounced by Namor and it’s incredibly entertaining, even though the guy who you would expect to lose actually did. The issue where the Thing fought a champion from space in a boxing ring is another example of the weaker person losing and it’s still entertaining. Meanwhile I can think of a bunch of DC Batgod comics that were less entertaining than both of these stories.

Sandbags:” I realize the poll was something to the extent of “who would win in a fight” Still, in those polls I’d bet most people just voted on which character they particularly like more, which I completely believe happened in the “Batman vs. Thor” poll.”

Actually, I would argue the opposite. Batman is more popular than Thor, but Thor won the poll anyway. Thor won because people went with their brains and not with the character that they “like more.” I like Batman more than Thor, but I voted for Thor because I could not work out a plausible way for Batman to win.

Reading T.’s comments and a few others, I realized that who wins a hero v hero fight doesn’t really matter as how well conceived and original the battle is.

For example, one fight that really sticks out in my mind is when the Spiky-Era Thing goes up against the Joe Fixit-Era Gray Hulk. I found it entertaining because even though these two characters faced of probably dozens of times, this is the first time I could recall the Thing being more powerful than the Hulk in a fight.

You go in expecting Grimm to finally wipe the floor with the Hulk, and your expectations get flipped on their ear when the Hulk wins because he is more devious and cunning…. when was the last time the Hulk was the underdog in a fight, and still won because of smarts rather than brute power?

Even though the Hulk v Thing battles have been done to death, this one still made me smile (and still sticks in my mind however many decades later).

So, if Johns finds a new take on the typical dynamics of a Batman v. Superman battle, and really mixes it up a bit while staying true to the characters, it can be very entertaining, win lose or draw. That seems like a really tall order though, and I am expecting a snooze-fest.

Billy Bissette

July 15, 2011 at 11:42 am

@JoeMac

If you mean the thin yellow around Superman’s neck, that is actually the red piping around his Jim Lee-designed high collar. It looks yellow/gold because of the green light from Green Lantern. You can see the highlights on the red cape are a similar color. If you look below the piping, you will see that there is blue collar, not skin-colored neck. (Not that either the green light or the paint-on skin-tight nature of the collar help much in differentiating it from the neck.)

Thank you , Bill Bissette. I thought it may be some goofy Jim Lee costume design, but I wasn’t sure.

In response to T., I think most of Bats’ wins are in-universe plausible, since he tends to rely on manipulating Clark psychologically in order to buy time (I’m thinking DKR, etc.). Whether or not they’re all well-written is another matter entirely. None of them are quite as egregious as (confirmed meta) Deathstroke soloing the JLA, which required a lot of PIS on Green Lantern’s part if nothing else. But I agree with the general sentiment that it doesn’t matter who wins if the fight is really well-done.

Supes’ archenemy is Lex Luthor, so it’s not like he doesn’t get plenty of chances to beat up on super-intelligent non-meta humans. I think that’s part of the appeal of Batman over Superman – we want to see the smart, savvy guy win over the alien who’s had all his powers handed to him by the yellow sun, but obviously it can’t be Lex, so we root for Bats when the opportunity presents itself.

jJink:”Supes’ archenemy is Lex Luthor, so it’s not like he doesn’t get plenty of chances to beat up on super-intelligent non-meta humans. I think that’s part of the appeal of Batman over Superman – we want to see the smart, savvy guy win over the alien who’s had all his powers handed to him by the yellow sun, but obviously it can’t be Lex, so we root for Bats when the opportunity presents itself.”

But, since Bats is now the odds on favorite, it comes across as bullying. I mean, I actually feel sorry for Superman when he fights Bats, because I know that the writer will make sure that he will lose.

RE: The DKR BATMAN-SUPERMAN FIGHT,

That one was actually well handled; the conventional wisdom regarding SM-BM fights had not yet been established, so the outcome was actually in doubt. Furthermore, Supes was clearly holding back during the majority of the fight.

funkygreenjerusalem

July 15, 2011 at 9:13 pm

Jink:

Regardless of writers’ opinions, Batman won the real-world marketability war by a mile – not that it’s hard to beat Supes in that department. Poor guy.

I dunno, Superman reigned supreme for a long time.
He totally dominated between them up until the 60’s, when Batman had the show, but after that fad wore off, Superman was back to being #1, particularly with the films in the 80’s.
Batman took over in the 90’s, with the films and the animated series, and that continued into the 00’s – but Superman still managed hit tv shows in both those decades.
Batman is definitely the current #1 in terms of marketability, but all up? I dunno about that at all.

T:

I think that’s the problem DC has, they assume the underdog on paper winning is so automatically more entertaining that many writers check their brains out at the door when writing it.

It’s a lot easier to write a story about Batman overcoming Superman, than it would be to have to write Superman overcoming Batman – it would either last one page, or you’d really have to work to make it so Superman wasn’t throwing the fight to make it last.

I get the appeal of them fighting, but I do think it’s been a bit over-done – there’s no shame in Batman not being able to beat everyone in the world, especially when there are characters with over the top powers.

I agree with T.

The non-powered guy winning? A cliche by now. A bit of Dark Knight Returns fetishism too.

That Daredevil story in the 1960s was awesome for it’s day. Namor really trounces Daredevil, and then Namor abandons his plans of invading the surface world, because he was impressed by DD’s fearlessness. There is a sort of thematicaly similar story later where DD fights the Hulk (Frank Miller’s art, Roger McKenzie’s writing), and the Hulk trounces DD, but then the Hulk leaps away in despair when he realizes he just beat up the one guy that tried to be nice to him.

But you know, even those two stories with Daredevil as the “moral victor” are cliches by now.

I think the last time someone did something interesting with the idea was THE NEW FRONTIER. The big Superman-Batman fight, with Batman beating up Supes? Turns out the fight was staged between the two of them and Superman was sympathetic to Batman’s anti-government struggles all along. That was Darwyn Cooke’s nice way to twist our expectations.

But you know, when the writer relies on reader expectation of Batman beating up Superman to surprise us with a twist, it’s because Bats beating Supes really is a huge, fat, cliche by now.

(Maybe Johns will do something different. I liked when Hal Jordan punched Batman. Hal may be Johns’s Mary Sue, but Batman is everybody’s Mary Sue)

Can’t resist mentioning that during a good chunk of Superman’s supposed period of early “dominance,” Captain Marvel was beating him at his own game. Badly. But National Comics v. Fawcett is another gripe for another time.

funkygreenjerusalem

July 16, 2011 at 7:30 pm

Can’t resist mentioning that during a good chunk of Superman’s supposed period of early “dominance,” Captain Marvel was beating him at his own game. Badly.

Huh?
Superman was still beating Batman at that time though, wasn’t he?
That’s what you were talking about before – I don’t think Superman being beaten by a Superman rip-off somehow proves that it’s not a marketable concept – if anything, it shows that the concept is marketable.
It’s not like Superman wasn’t still popular in those years – he got added to the Macy’s parade, had a daily strip, the radio show, the Fleisher cartoons, a movie serial, and then a tv series.
As I say, if he got all of that whilst not being the number one hero in town, clearly, he’s a pretty marketable guy.

The main point is that he wasn’t the number one guy of that time like Batman arguably is today, not that he’s totally unsuccessful or unmarketable. No one’s arguing that Superman isn’t one of many popular, iconic characters. And calling Captain Marvel a ripoff, while objectively true, does a disservice to the novel adjustments that gave him a huge edge on Superman as a character concept – not to mention that National and Fawcett were copying each other like crazy in those days, what with Superman gaining flight and a mad scientist arch-villain to compete with the Cheese.

It was just a pet peeve historical aside – my only real contention is that today, it’s easy to see that Bats has won the popularity contest in a big way. I think we can agree on that, for better or for worse.

To clarify, when I talk about Superman’s lack of marketability, I’m generally speaking of his appeal in modern times. It’s just not what it used to be.

“my only real contention is that today, it’s easy to see that Bats has won the popularity contest in a big way. I think we can agree on that, for better or for worse.”

Batman may be ahead at the moment, but there’s no reason to think the “popularity contest” is over (as implied by “has won”). There’s nothing special about today (or this year, or this decade) that means things will never change again. Their “popularity contest” can’t meaningfully be said to be “over” while either one of them is remembered anywhere; both are a long way from being forgotten.

I guess I should find it flattering that somebody pays more attention to the way I parse my sentences than I do. I’ll amend that to “Bats is winning the popularity contest in a big way,” to avoid left-field philosophical questions about the nature of time and cultural memory.

@ T.
You were right on the DOT on ALL COUNTS in your first post. Deathstroke beating Kyle by twisting his fingers irritated me a lot, I couldn’t sleep that night.

And let’s not forget about Batman’s intricate, cunning, and ingenious plans in Tower Of Babel. “Flash? Shoot him with a Kryptonite bullet! Superman? Kryptonite exposure!”. I am in awe of such well thought out plans! Which operate under the assumption that the superbeings in question were born with Down’s Syndrome. Because, seriously, unless Superman acts like a retard, he should beat Batman 9 times out of 10. And it’s sort of ridiculous how Superman slugs it out with Darkseid at one point, but has trouble against the Bat-person.

funkygreenjerusalem

July 19, 2011 at 1:27 am

Jink:

To clarify, when I talk about Superman’s lack of marketability, I’m generally speaking of his appeal in modern times. It’s just not what it used to be.

Fair call.
I wonder if it’s the characters inability to shift with the times, or just that no one has tried shifting him?
Batman’s had massive shifts in styles to keep with the times, but any new take on Superman isn’t that new or widespread.
(Also, Batman can go dark, and blur the lines with what he does and it’s cool – with Superman it’s terrifying).

to avoid left-field philosophical questions about the nature of time and cultural memory.

Comics, man.
They take you places.

Awfully New Frontier JL cover there. Not sure we need that?

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