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CSBG Archive

The Abandoned An’ Forsaked – Did Thor Just Beat Up the Most Powerful Hindu God?

Every week, we will be examining comic book stories and ideas that were not only abandoned, but also had the stories/plots specifically “overturned” by a later writer (as if they were a legal precedent). Click here for an archive of all the previous editions of The Abandoned An’ Forsaked. Feel free to e-mail me at bcronin@comicbookresources.com if you have any suggestions for future editions of this feature.

Today we look at the short-lived victory of Thor over Shiva, one of the Hindu Great Trinity of Vishnu, Brahma and Shiva….

So in Thor #301 (written by Mark Gruenwald and Ralph Macchio), Thor decides to bring Odin back to life. For this to happen, Thor has to get a little bit of power from all the various mythological gods. The Greek gods, the Egyptian gods, the Chinese gods, etc.

Well, when he comes to the Hindu gods, things don’t go so smoothly…

As you might imagine, Hindu readers weren’t thrilled with the fact that Thor just kicked the ass of one of their most important deities, let alone what is supposed to be their MOST powerful deity.

I don’t know if that is precisely the motivation for what came next, but it seems likely, since less than two years later, in Thor Annual #10 in 1982, Alan Zelenetz (co-plotted by Gruenwald) has Thor team-up with gods from different religions that are the rough equivalent in their religion as Thor is in the Norse hierachy. One of the gods is the one who Thor fought in #301, only now he the character called Indra and not Shiva….

Thor is confused and so later in the issue…

And Shiva has been on the same standing of Odin ever since.

Note that during Dan Jurgens’ Thor run years later, while Shiva is depicted as an equivalent to Odin, Shiva is also drawn by the artists of the issue (the Lai brothers) the same as in Thor #301…

Which is pretty confusing.

That’s it for this week!

Feel free to e-mail me at bcronin@comicbookresources.com if you have any suggestions for future editions of this feature.

88 Comments

I think that must have been the motivation–Indra and Shiva are two separate gods, so I don’t see much point otherwise.
Damn, but I hated 301. I have real problems with treating Hindu gods as equivalent to “myths” rather than living religions (i.e., if Thor needs support from the Hindu pantheon, he probably needs to get Jesus and Allah to buy in). And I don’t think getting support from every god is even possible: Would the Lion God (who’s fought the Avengers several times) sign on? And I’m sure there were others.
Gruenwald’s writing was a mess on Thor. I disliked his handling of the Celestials as the Coolest Cosmic Beings Ever (as someone pointed out when Kirby’s series originally ran, wiping out any world that doesn’t meet their standards makes them monstrous cosmic genocides) and he generally had a tin ear for the mythological stuff.

That depiction of Shiva is ridiculous — but all three of the trimurti (supreme Hindu gods) are drawn badly and out of character. There is a long history of Indra being defeated in battle, by various rakshasas (demons), so Indra would have been the best choice all along. Clearly Gruenwald wasn’t interested in doing any real research before writing about Hindu mythology — he just picked up some old D&D book or the equivalent and then made up his own characters based on the little he found there.

I’ll go ahead and say what is easy to say on these specifics. Shiva is NOT a death god. Many Hindus view Shiva as the creator of the universe. (Others assign that role to Vishnu.) Shiva’s role regarding destruction is only to destroy the universe so that it can be renewed again. Essentially, Shiva makes the big bang at the end of each cosmic cycle. The rest of the time, Shiva is supposed to be an ascetic, practicing meditation and self-denial to be ready for the moment. However, Shiva is married with a family, most prominently his son, Ganesha, who is the the most widely worshipped god among Hindus in India.

As far as Shiva fighting, the only time there would be any chance of him losing would be if he had himself granted power to a worshipper who prayed to him, who then used his own power against him. If Shiva did fight, he would only use a trident, which is his symbol. And he would only fight evil people. No one who wasn’t evil would ever fight Shiva. Thor would know better.

The Trimurti as they are depicted in Hindu mythology would ALL have agreed to help Thor. They nearly always help when the lesser gods come and ask for favors. Indra, on the other hand, would have been likely to behave as Gruenwald’s dumb version of Shiva did, because Indra is known for being alternately proud and cowardly, depending on the situation. The easy solution, if Gruenwald wanted a fight, would be for the Trimurti to agree, and then Indra to barge in and demand a grudge match. After Thor beat Indra, then Shiva or Vishnu could give the power as requested originally.

The story about the god-slayer, in which “Shiva” becomes “Indra” misses a lot of visual opportunities also. If it’s Indra, he should be riding on a celestial elephant (Airavant) and using a mace (Vajra, thunder). These would be more interesting than what was actually drawn. They just did a sloppy ret-con there, again without much thought or research involved.

Re @Matt opener – what did you read to become so well versed in Hindu religion? I’m genuinely asking because id love to know more about Hindu religion beyond wikipedia.

Posner – sorry. Stupid autocorrect.

@Carl: if anything, there is too much material available. The Bhagavad Gita, particularly a commented version, would be a good start. I assume Matt has better suggestions, however.

Kudos to Matt Posner for his excellent comment!

Thor #301 was a spectacular misstep. The previous issue, #300, had already introduced the risible image of “Nirvana” as an Asgard-like rock with trees on it. (It’s actually the term for a state of mind in which freedom from suffering has been attained.) But when this issue came along, I couldn’t believe my own eyes. Imagine if Thor showed up the Christian Heaven to plead his case to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost…only for them to turn down his request for help, and then Jesus leaps up and says “I was tortured and put to death on Earth, so I’m angry and evil now! Thou must fight me, Thunder God, and with my super-power of resurrection I cannot be defeated! Canst thou say the same?” (Even Son O’God from National Lampoon would have been more Biblically sound.)

I never knew the precise details, but I knew a Shaivite comics fan who took great exception to the depiction of “Shiva” in the earlier story and may actually have been the individual who suggested the retcon of making it Indra instead. I remember him saying back when issue #301 came out that this was an obvious error and it clearly should have been Indra…and this fan knew Gruenwald from Mark’s own days in fandom. I never had the opportunity to find out if this fan in particular made his case directly to Gruenwald, and sadly neither man is around to ask anymore.

Yeah, I think this was brought up when Jesus (sort of) appeared in “Ghost Rider,’ this is just very tacky.

I’m a practicing Catholic, and I think it would have been hilarious if Thor had walked into a room with an old guy in flowing robes, a dove, and Jesus and asked for part of their power. I can go down some VERY sacrilegious roads with this in my head, but I think just the panels you’ve shown today will upset enough people without me adding to it.

If anyone’s curious, it involves three days and God saying Thor coming was part of his plan all along.

@Carl, Many of these stories are in Shiva Purana and there are fairly easy versions for kids You can also start with Amar Chitra Katha comics which cover all the Hindu stories. I also have watched a lot of Hindu mythological TV shows on DVD. If there is an Indian bookstore in your area, it will have all these things I describe. They can all be found online.

I know about this stuff because I grew up reading stories from Ramayana and eventually married a Hindu bride. And then I got even MORE interested.

I’m happy to talk more about these issues. Anyone feel free to contact me via my website http://schooloftheages.webs.com

@Carl, I know about this stuff because of a lifelong casual interest in Hinduism that became more serious when I married a Hindu bride.

I agree with @Luis Dantas about Bhagavad Geeta, which I think is the most pivotal text for understand how to live a good life using Hindu precepts.

If you are a beginning to Hinduism you could probably learn about the beliefs using the same texts that are written for children. Amar Chitra Katha comics and other kids’ Hinduism books do a good job of telling you the stories. You can also watch Hindu mythological series on DVD. Any Indian bookstore has all these things. There are many websites that cater to Indians in North America which can sell them to you.

If you want to talk to me directly about these topics, you can contact me directly at my website schooloftheages dot webs dot com or via my facebook fan page “School of the Ages series.”

This is why when you’re depicting deities in comics, it’s best to stick to the ones no one is worshiping any more, like Zeus or Odin.

no wonder marvel wound up getting into a little trouble with this story for one has to walk a thin line even in fiction depicting other gods like shiva for marvel found out doing so the way they did wound up offending certain readers who are of that reliegion not to mention having to change the name of shiva to try and cover base got confusing when it would have been a little safer for them to just stick to zeus and odin .

Like Xander, I’m Catholic but I’d love to see Thor fight the Holy Spirit.

I don’t really get the complaints about the Indian gods not being portrayed with extreme accuracy; it’s not as if Thor is, either. They did at least get most of the basics right with him though, so I’ll give ya that.
What I took from this is that the middle entry– where Indra masqueraded as Shiva to mislead Thor– is what was abandoned an’ forsaked. Hence, Shiva appearing in a later issue depicted exactly as in the first appearance.
“Controversies” like this just go to show why could never be one of the PR guys; my response to the people outraged over the treatment of Shiva would’ve been “Oh yeah? Tough shit. Don’t read ‘Thor,’ then.” And just to be clear, that would be my reaction no matter which gods from whatever pantheon were depicted: christian, hindu, buddhist dudeist, muslim, whatever. I always get annoyed when a group expresses outrage over something, even if it is something I personally dislike. The option is always there to not buy/read/watch/listen to the offending item.

DF, I didn’t hear any Hindus calling for Thor to be banned or cancelled, just that they were offended. Heck, it bugs me and I’m not Hindu (and while I did read the issue, I didn’t keep it around). It’s just as reasonable to criticize an author for being offensive as for being a bad writer, relying on deus ex machina or anything else. But of course it helps to remember all of those are in the eye of the beholder.

Heck, Fraser, the correct term isn’t even “offended” — all that happened was, some Hindu comics fans said to Mark Gruenwald, “Hey, you got this wrong, that’s not what Shiva is like” and Mark said “Oops!” and tried to fix it later. (And then someone else unfixed it out of equal ignorance.) No one was offended, no one thought it was derogatory or done from prejudice, it was clearly just a hasty bit of writing that wasn’t sufficiently thought out.

Matt Posner… FROM NEW COLLEGE?? O.O

Yeah, my wife is Hindu as well. I once showed her the cover of that issue of Thor, and she said it was ridiculous, that nothing about that depiction resembles Shiva in the slightest.

I wonder how many superhero comics published in India treat Christianity with the degree of respect that the people criticizing these stories wanted? Still, I have to agree that its just better not to use characters from current religions, just to be safe.

Oh and Brian, the article could use a little more background (eg. why Odin and Asgard needed to be revived, what was the menace that prompted the team-up of gods in the annual, etc.)

I know the destruction of Asgard came about during Odin’s ultimately successful attempt to stop the Celestials from annihilating Earth as unfit to exist. Don’t know about the team-up.

Oh, wow. I hate to speak ill of the dead, especially since I am a big fan of Gruenwald’s writing on Captain America. But the scripting on Thor #301 is just painful to read. If this is what the title was like on a regular basis in the early 1980s, it’s no wonder that Walter Simonson’s run was embraced as a breath of fresh air when it came along three years later.

It started to go downhill for me when Roy Thomas tried working in Ring of the Nibelungs, followed by Gruenwald’s mystical theories about cosmic cycles and the Celestials being the Coolest Cosmic Beings Ever … but after the Celestial plotline wrapped up it got worse. Simonson was indeed a welcome change.

“Imagine if Thor showed up the Christian Heaven to plead his case to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost…only for them to turn down his request for help, and then Jesus leaps up and says “I was tortured and put to death on Earth, so I’m angry and evil now! Thou must fight me, Thunder God, and with my super-power of resurrection I cannot be defeated! Canst thou say the same?” (Even Son O’God from National Lampoon would have been more Biblically sound.)”

I would buy that in a heartbeat!

The old Lobo’s Back mini-series isn’t too far from that…

I really dislike when people go down the whole ‘What if you did that to Christianity” route. As a practicing Catholic, the only enjoyment I’d get out of such a storyline would be the gross theological ignorance on display.

I prefer the modern interpretation of the Marvel “gods” pantheon: The Asgardians are cosmic beings who inspired the Norse mythology years ago. So Marvel’s Asgardians and Norse theology aren’t exactly the same thing.

gotta agree with mart posner you got your facts right. ask any kid who reads amar chitra khata the depiction of the 3 Hindu gods was wrong in fact it was ridiculous. Shiva is the destroyer and he rarely fights but when he does he obliterates ( his third eye is supposed to be the hindu equivalent of the ultimate nullifier ) .Shiva should have been depicted differently in the later series but that did not happen.

I cant say if there were any controversies with shiva being getting beaten up by norse god of thunder. But if there were then i think they may be right.

i have always been a thor fan and i have read a lot of comics regarding the Hindu deities was well. If marvel does again do some cosmic event related to the other pantheon they should at least get the depiction right .

Posted By: John Trumbull

“This is why when you’re depicting deities in comics, it’s best to stick to the ones no one is worshiping any more, like Zeus or Odin.”

Actually there are still people today who worship old Pagan gods like Zeus and Odin. They’re tiny in number, but they’re out there.

Despite his distinguished and long career at Marvel, this again proves one of my staunch rules on comic buying/collecting.. If Ralph Macchio has a hand in the story, run the other way..

As a follower of Asartu, all I can say is that people should get over themselves.

i guess most “Big Two” comics tend to deemphasize any kind of Mainline relgious depictions now, anyway… Hinduism would almost certainly be off-limits.. Islam for sure, as it is forbidden to depict Mohammed in any visual way (yes I’m aware, he’s the chief prophet for the religion, not a “god”).. Scientology is a major corporation, they’d probably sue for any depictions..

As a Hindu myself, I’m not particularly offended by Thor beating Shiva. (It’s a comic book, and I’m certain the writer meant no actual harm or insult.) Having said that, though, I do take offense to the gods being drawn so off-character. That in itself is a bit more of an insult, because it’s not that difficult to do research to see what they look like, and draw something similar to that. (I mean, it’s comics, some liberties need to be taken, but some of those depictions are just ridiculous.)

I think people should get over themselves on this sort of thing. Remember: the Norse-worship was once a widely practice religion. Ergo, should Marvel Comics cease publishing “The Mighty Thor” and “Tales of the Astonished”? If the writers of these legends (I refuse to use the term “myth” or “mythology” because of the religious connotations that would be invoked, especially since secular-progressives are always bagging on Christianity/Islam/Judaism, the Abrahamic Covenant, as being “myths”) want a guide, they should look to how the creators of “South Park” treats religion and so forth. I mean, if you can have Jesus Christ having his own cable access show, and being part of a team known as “The Super Best Friends” (i.e. the heads/founders of the modern religions of the world, which includes Hinduism), I think comics are safe in this regard.

“Get over themselves”? I can’t believe how many times on this thread we’ve had people griping about the mere fact that anyone, anywhere voiced any objection to anything, no matter how mild and reasonable they were in reality. The way some commenters here sound, you’d think there were death threats against Mark Gruenwald or people calling for him to be fired and the book pulped. NONE OF THOSE THINGS HAPPENED. Again: all that happened was some folks said “Huh, that isn’t really accurate” and the writer agreed. OMG, how shrill and intolerant of those pompous Hindus, how dare they! Burn the Constitution, the Thought Police are out in force!

“Having said that, though, I do take offense to the gods being drawn so off-character. That in itself is a bit more of an insult, because it’s not that difficult to do research to see what they look like, and draw something similar to that”

It was over 30 years ago. It’s not like he could just type Shiva into google and find that info. Research was a lot more time consuming pre-internet, and back then books were actually expected to come out on time, so it’s possible just getting the names right was all the research time would allow.

Richard, well said. JD, it’s not that hard to find information on Hindu mythology–I could have found it back then easy enough (and Marvel is, after all, in New York, it’s got more than enough libraries).
Anthony, I know the Asgardians (and Olympians) describe themselves as small-g gods, but the fact they actually gather the souls of their worshippers seems to qualify them as “gods” of some sort rather than “cosmic beings” like the Celestials or the Eternals. The fact that Norse mythology in the MU got the details wrong doesn’t change that–Thor’s always been clear that he is the Norse god of thunder and accepts that role (IIRC–feel free to correct me) rather some non-god who happens to get worshipped (like Zuras or Thena). Admittedly it’s a fine point but I think it’s a valid one.
There’s actually an Odin-worshipper on the New York City Council now I believe (again, IIRC).

Makeminemarvel

July 17, 2012 at 5:36 pm

Mark Gruenwald and Ralph Macchio had NO F*#$ idea what they were doing. It’s really easy to know about the Trinity, just pick up about any book on Hindu Mythology.. Grunewald just thought it would be cool if Thor beats up other Dieties. The Art doesn,t depict them properly and their characterisation is ay off.

See, this is why i hate Marvel. They are so full of S*#%

Richard, get over yourself.

Richard- Thank you. I think that the people on here who disagreed with something that is inarguably offensive to a major world religion have been less irate towards the perpetrator than the people who are irate about their being irate in the first place. There is always somebody.

I think it’s relevant to mention that Mark Grunewald was an atheist.

You do realize that Marvel’s depiction of Thor, Odin and Asgard is even less accurate than their depiction of the other religions, right?

“Look! This comic that hardly resembles the religion it’s primary character is from isn’t portraying other religions the way they actually are!”

::rollseyes::

Wait, did Mark actually say he was an atheist?

Ah, there is apparently a bit more to it than that:

http://michaelsidney.thehoskincentre.com/blog/?p=162

“…I was a little surprised by what Gruenwald had written in his notebook: in there, he expressed his belief in a creator. Not necessarily God, not even something he recognized as a deity, but a creator. This, for me, was exciting; the suggestion that Gruenwald was perhaps more agnostic than atheist comforted me and explained to me his open-mindedness.”

A Horde of Evil Hipsters

July 18, 2012 at 7:34 am

Dear “Rikk Odinson”,

get over yourself.

Then again, I suppose pointlessly picking a fight is the best one can expect from someone who claims to follow “Asatru”*.

*For those unaware: “asatru” is a modern-day name for the worship of old Norse/Germanic gods. The term is usually used by nationalist and white supremacist circles, whose interpretation of said gods is about as valid and “real” as Lee & Kirbys.

That’s pretty hateful–while there are indeed some racists who worship the Norse gods, there are many, many Asatru followers who are wholly against racism.

More is here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%81satr%C3%BA_in_the_United_States#Politics_and_controversies

“Today, the three largest US American Ásatrú organizations have specifically denounced any association with racist groups.”

“Look! This comic that hardly resembles the religion it’s primary character is from isn’t portraying other religions the way they actually are!”

::rollseyes::

The difference is that one religion is depicted inaccurately in a flattering way and the other one is depicted more inaccurately and in an unflattering way.

I didn’t know Gruenwald was an athiest. Cool, good for him.

Thanks, David. I appreciate that.

I love unfounded calls of racism from people afraid to use their real name. Big man.

Anyway, it’s just a comicbook and if it’s more than that to somebody, they should probably take a look at themselves and their religion because if stuff like this is getting their panties in a wad, they probably need to get some perspective.

btw, I was only “attacking” Richard because he singled me out first. Read the thread bozos.

Rikk, you might want to do some rereading yourself. Do you think you were the only person who employed the phrase “get over themselves” in the thread?

When the Thor movie came out last year, there was an article expressing frustration that Marvel/Paramount/Disney appeared ambivalent that their movie featured someone’s god.

The author wasn’t outraged or even insulted necessarily, he just thought it was an odd choice.

Marvel released a handbook about the various Pantheons of the Marvel Universe a couple years back and it featured quite a few faiths, many that were represented either once (in that team-up issue of Thor) or only a couple of times.

Maybe its my lack of understanding of the mythology of the Judeo-Christian faith but it seemed like Jehova and all the related characters, fell under Zorastranism. I’m not sure that that was the corporate intention, but that is what I got from it.

Ian, at least it wasn’t like a bunch of people screeched with outrage and denounced Marvel Entertainment and called for a boycott of Thor simply because the Norse god Heimdall was portrayed in the film by an actor with brown skin. Oh wait no, that actually happened:

http://www.google.com/search?rls=en&q=heimdall+black

Ian, I think that handbook also included Buddha along with the Hindus. But I may be confusing my handbooks.
Richard, people also bitched about Hogun being nonwhite, even though it’s canon that he’s not Aesir (comes from a vaguely Arabian/Mongolian setting in the same plane as Asgard IIRC).
Yes, the movie did seem to imply the Asgardians were more ET gods-from-outer-space types than “gods” even with a small g.

Man with No Face

July 19, 2012 at 12:44 pm

All the “Thor should’ve met Jesus ” comments are pretty funny. But I remember thinking, when I read this story at the time (and remember, it was published in the early ’80s), “In that big scene with all the gods from different cultures, Marx, Engels and Lenin should be there. Maybe Mao, too.”

@David, yes, I am Matt Posner from New College. If I knew you there, please contact me at my website and we will move to Facebook from there.

Very cool! Done! :)

Moving along to something even more controversial:
Was that last panel in the article lettered using Comics Sans!?

@MarkMcD: I don’t know the name of that font offhand, but it’s not Comic Sans. If Comic Sans looked that good, no one would complain about it.

I have several books on the Hindu religion, and I have to say that Shiva’s depiction in that issue was WAY off base. I have this issue, and I was very dissapointed in how Shiva was portrayed. Not to mention that he didn’t look anything like the traditional versions of Shiva–a slender, almost feminine looking deity with either white or blue colored skin. Who the hell is this fat red guy? The retcon doesn’t make any sense, either–why would Indra pass himself off as Shiva? What purpose would that serve?

I’d like to look for those Amar Chitra Katha comics (maybe we can see a feature on them?), mostly because I love all the old stories and legends from all over the world, though I’m not particularly religious in any way. I kind of believe in a little of all of it. Wonder Woman met a lot of the Hindu deities about ten years ago I think, including Ganesh, Hanuman, and perhaps Shiva, but probably got them all wrong too.

My first introduction to religious/mythological characters in story form was he excellent and highly recommended book “D’Aulaires’ Norse Gods and Giants” which gets Norse myths right the first time, including Loki’s status as Odin’s blood brother, not Thor’s (I think having Loki be his uncle would make it more interesting anyway) and is more of a trickster who does as much good as evil, but Loki is one of the family so he gets away with a lot. It also has Thor’s goat cart (pulled by Toothgnasher and Toothgrinder), which I don’t think anyone before Simonson ever used in comics!
http://www.amazon.com/DAulaires-Norse-Myths-Ingri-dAulaire/dp/159017125X

Many years ago I stumbled onto a very good comic of Chinese mythology called “Trickster King Monkey” which was huge fun and features another trickster character trying to become a more important deity any way he can. Here is the cover, but the database has the year wrong I think: I bought this comic in the 80s when I was in college. Maybe it was reprinted in 1998 but mine is much older, maybe they meant to say ’88.
http://www.comics.org/series/24984/

I also recommend “Coyote” by Steve Englehart as the only comic I’ve ever seen to delve into native American myths, though most of that is just in the first few issues.

Maybe I just have a thing for tricksters! Hmm, maybe Brave CuChulain is due for a series!

I have also read that Thor’s hammer was carried by the real Norse people as a “T” shaped amulet for luck, and this similarity to the Cross helped make the Norse people easier to convert to Christianity, along with Baldur’s similarities to Jesus (a god of light, goodness and joy who is made to die). It would be fun to see these themes explored in comics, but don’t hold your breath!

Having read the comments, I’d like to commend all the contributors for not having it degenerate. Having said that , I think it’s more a case of what, we as Indians are familiar with. I am Roman Catholic myself and I grew up reading Amar Chitra Katha which was basically our idea of comics. Imagine if an Indian artist decided to sketch Superman only he made him look like the penguin, it’d upset some fans for certain, which I believe is the case here. There’s a lot more to the Hindu trinity and it’s fairly interesting. I’d recommend Amar Chitra Katha for those of you who’re fans of the art work. (also look up Hindu Calendar art). For a more in depth look, Dasavtaar (The Ten Avatars of Vishnu) is another great read. Once you’re familiar with the basic premise of the myth or legend. (equally applicable to Christianity or any other religion for that matter) then you can move on to the parallel stories of the other gods. Hindu mythology comprises some 33 billion gods so you’re likely to be in for a long series of reads.
Follow up reading for those interested in modern day variations of the original stories

1. Ashok Banker’s Ramayana Series (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/170758.Prince_of_Ayodhya)
2. Amish Tripathy’s Shiva trilogy (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7913305-the-immortals-of-meluha)
3. Ashok Banker’s Krishna Coriolis (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9652959-slayer-of-kamsa)

http://www.amarchitrakatha.com/best-sellers/English

Another link to look up comics involving the epics of India in comic form. The conversion is approximately 50 cents per comic. (That’s a steal)

Haha. Being a Hindu myself, I can say that I am not offended. We are used to see the western world (mis)using the Hindu gods for nearly everything(on flip flops, thongs, beers, toilet seats, etc.). You don’t see people being killed or things being burnt about it right? I’d just say that the ignorance is quite appalling. Nothing more to ‘Get over with’ or something.

I’m particularly impressed looking at the comments and finding that Amar Chitra Katha is so popular among the Americans(even if its a small number). Those were the comic books we grew up with and I’m happy that they are considered informative. :)

For all it’s major problems with Hindu gods, I did enjoy the depiction in Thor 301 of Gaia (speaking as a priest of the Goddess, myself).

And, by the way, England has quite a healthy community who worship the Norse and Geermanic pantheons. They classify themselves as “Heathens”. And they actively condemn anyone who misuses their spirituality for racist purposes.

I’m a Hindu and I’m offended. Though I will not take to the streets and ask for the beheading of the writers/artists like the people of the Muhammad cartoons. I’m also happy (and somewhat surprised) that many people here understand the sentiment without being from the religion themselves. The Hindu Gods are depicted as Fat and Ugly and living in the same place while according to Hindu lore they reside in different places and have markedly different appearances. DC’s Wonder Woman series had a take on Hindu Gods and they even released a Rama/WW T-Shirt which was well done. They got the appearances correct somehow.

And I read Indian Comics (for those who don’t know search for ‘Raj Comics’) and there are NO derogatory remarks about ANY religion in those because we have ample representation of all religions in India. Certainly nothing on the level of this. But it’s Marvel what else can one expect? DC does a better job IMO.

Also the discussion here is pretty academic. I hope I did not spoil things by saying ‘Though I will not take to the streets and ask for the beheading of the writers/artists like the people of the Muhammad cartoons’. I just meant that I was only slightly offended and not throwing a fit or something.

Y’know it wouldn’t be a bad idea if DC started its own series based on Rama much like Marvel has done with Thor. Instead of the Asgaurdians the Hindu pantheon can exist and the God can walk the earth as an avatar of Vishnu with limited powers. He can also be used to fight exclusively against dark powers/demons pretty much like Mignola’s Hellboy. And take on missions around the world so that the US scene is left to the regular cast and new expendable villains can be produced. Image is doing a Krishna comic and Virgin Comics tried to explore the idea. It would certainly be HUGE in India and among the diaspora.

Wouldn’t it be like The Amazing Adventures of Jesus or something, though? Part of what makes Thor work as a comics character (I think) is that he’s not really worshipped by terribly many people nowadays. (I’ve always been curious how Asatru folks look at the comics character, actually.)

Well that is actually quite well reasoned. There will always be issues related to active Gods/dieties I guess. Also The thing is that even though Indra is no longer worshipped actively among Hindus he still is very much revered in China and Japan (Taishakuten). I don’t think Thor’s retcon was done very well if one takes that into account.

I wonder what things would have been like if Thor would have barged in Jannah (Islamic Paradise) and scared away the 72 virgins before sorting Muhammad out?

My guess is the writers and pretty much everyone else in Marvel would end up sharing an apartment with a somewhat amused Salman Rushdie in an undisclosed location for the rest of their lives.

I always get a chuckle when people complain that the book featuring the blond, clean shaven Thor (although originally that made sense as Don Blake just got his powers, and wasn’t the Thor) doesn’t have accurate physical depictions of other gods…

THIS IS REDICULOUS, HINDU GODS ARE MOST POWERFULL IN THE WORLD, THEY CREATED THE WORLD, HOW CAN THOR WIN OVER SHIVA, WHO IS THE DESTROYER. HE CAN WIN OVER HINDU GODS AND BEATEN BY IRON MAN AND HULK…..
JUMPING REDICULOUS………………….

EVEN HE CAN NOT WIN OVER ANY SERVANT OF INDRA……MOST EMBARASSING.
HATE TO THIS COMICS CREATOR…………….

if at all their was a fight between the two the writers should have atleast found out who Shiva is?THE DESTROYER OF THE CREATION. What has thor done that he should be put in same league. At his best he is an earth shattering force, how could he win over somebody who can casually destroy universes.

I’m still trying to get over the line, “Hindu readers weren’t happy.” What, all two Hindu comic readers? Come on.

@Vizator. I’m still trying to get over the line, “What, all two Hindu comic readers”. Are you like, dumb or something? Do you seriously think only 2 Hindu guys exist, who read comic books? Or do you believe Hindus are a part of some lost civilization with only 2 survivors, both of whom read Marvel comics?? You are funny dude!

JesusInThor293

April 7, 2013 at 10:01 pm

For those wondering about a Jesus cameo, Jesus was depicted in Thor 293 as a baby. The star of Bethlehem was explained as the elder Norse gods Ragnarok. And they got stuff wrong there too (although baby Jesus didn’t fight Thor).

DaWanda is a website like Etsy where you can see why this
method makes the most sense for you also.

You just need to take time to find testimonials and reviews.
Maybe your got stuck in the car. Instead they are regularly” condemned to a weekly pattern of expensive parking and endless traffic jams.

The author is very lucky that India doesn’t have much intrest in the field of comics until 2000 or so and still now majority doesn’t read comics. Otherwise there would have been a high chance of public protest etc since we south Indians are especially famous for our strikes and rallys
besides that the author should have at least taken to account of the fact that thor odin etc aren’t worshipped by much while the trimurti (supreme power ) are worshipped by 80% of 1.3 billion people.
And Shiva is the only God that has a family and also the first god to ever be worshipped if we count from the Indus Valley civilisation. And also if Shiva doesn’t exhibit four arms. He is the only God that remains on Earth as the rest are in deva lok(heaven like) he is also called vydya nath which means doctor as he knows all the medicine and poison.
He also cast death away from his devotee. People who are interested must refer to the “Maha Mrityunjaya”
it is the core prayer given to Shiva, it means great victory over death.
And please Shiva never opens his third eye because if that happens it is said to be the ultimate destruction of the enemy of his devotee. His three eyes refer to as the eye of justice, the eye of compassion, and the eye of wisdom.
Overall no one should insult any Gods of any religion in any form.

Most ridiculous part of Thor, May thor is a God of Thunder, but Shiva is the God o God, Very Bad representation.. Thor is an Comic Character but Shiva is Not an Character. The Shiva, Odin, Ra, Zeus are the most powerfull. nothing stand. By the way lack of knowledge the author describes indra and Shiva are the same, but, Indra is King of God ,And Shiva is the God of Gods

[...] Katha comic depicted Jesus the way this issue depicts Shiva. For more discussion of this issue see http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2012/07/14/the-abandoned-an-forsaked-did-thor-just-beat-up-… and [...]

Marvel comics is SHIT when it comes to depiction of Mythological Gods. In reality Shiva is Omnipotent.

used 2 be a thor fan

March 17, 2014 at 9:36 am

this is fucking outrageous . i am a hindu and lived a very good portion of my life in India. That doesn’t even make any sense to our mythology.It’s a Insult just the way they are drawn.

Shiva shakes the entire universe(all relms) when he gets angry if he wasn’t calmed down by the other gods(davas) , the universe would have destroyed.That’s the reason he’s so calm …there are many other names in Sanskrit for Shiva , which basically translate to “the calm one”.

How the hell can they make a God who bursts universe by getting angry depower to what ever this is.

I will play the religion card , This is fucking racist. how will u feel if a god u pray every day is held like that. Those pricks needs to be fined the lest.
If this Issue was released in india ,DC would burned down by people like “shiv sena political party” who are known for their …well violent approach (they once illegally banned valentines day because it blocked a hindu holiday … they raided PUBS ).
i’m not kidding ,this comic is not a joke in india.

The writer didn’t even care of doing any research on the topic. No forget religious books, what about out comics!? India had its owns comics like Tinkle or panchachrethra ect.. filled with characters like shiva and other davas.Filled with actual myth .

IT’S BEEN PUBLISHING SINCE THE 70′S .

- i end my post by saying i’m disappointed .

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actually there is a big similarity between indian and greek mythology, thor is a god of thunder who has hammer

In the same way indra is god of thunder with ‘bajra’ weapon don’t u think both are same. here thor has a bro

is known to be a devil. Sameway devas and asuras were siblings of each other So Indra is thor. while shiva is supereme diety

This is total bullshit. Who the fuck wrote this? His gaze is not supposed to freeze people.. It burns them down to ashes! Have some respect for other religions atleast.

who the fucking idoit wrote this comic book the shiva is the god of gods and he just get defeated by that fucking thor. shiva is also god of peace of his calm nature he is always chill and cool he does’nt outrage like that and even if thor fights with him. His third eye would reduce thor into ashes. fuck marvel’s thor atleast think what hindu feel when people write comic like this, MARVEL COMICS SHOULD FEEL ASHAMED!

also hindu gods look tall and very handsome and not like that in that comic

you can’t make mahadeva(shiva) character as if he is can be defeated. this will enraged the hindu comunity i urge you to do some changes. in fact change the drawing as well, the hindu’s gods personalities are handsome and beautiful.
i hope this can help you.
its not mine, i found it in youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ysbs2mRv9-w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePqR8W2Jnyk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x2fO_kNZO0

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