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The Abandoned An’ Forsaked – Even Kitty Pryde’s Dad Is Involved In X-Men Retcons?

Every week, we will be examining comic book stories and ideas that were not only abandoned, but also had the stories/plots specifically “overturned” by a later writer (as if they were a legal precedent). Click here for an archive of all the previous editions of The Abandoned An’ Forsaked. Feel free to e-mail me at bcronin@comicbookresources.com if you have any suggestions for future editions of this feature.

Today we learn how even Kitty Pryde’s dad is not immune to being caught up in the wonderful world of X-Men retcons…

We meet Carmen Pryde along with his daughter Kitty in X-Men #129 as he first meets Charles Xavier…

In #131, after Kitty gets involved with the X-Men being captured by the Hellfire Club, he is none too pleased with the X-Men and Professor Charles Xavier…

Only, get this, not only did Carmen Pryde KNOW Charles Xavier beforehand, he actually wanted Xavier to be the best man at his wedding!!!

Yes, DECADES later, Claremont abandoned and forsaked the first meeting of Carmen Pryde and Charles Xavier by showing their shared past in Vietnam.

Check it out, from Excalibur #14…

I love it! When even Kitty Pryde’s dad is getting retconned into knowing Charles Xavier and Wolverine, I think you know you’ve gone a bridge too far.

48 Comments

How long until we learn about Peter Parker’s secret Vietnam tour along side his good buddy Logan?

I’m not really surprised that Wolverine knows Mr Pryde from the old times, because every single person in the Marvel Universe knows Wolverine from the past. That’s why he’s got such a good press there, despite all the berserk episodes that he has had.

I’m more surprised that Xavier was in Vietnam, and was in such a perfect physical shape. Look at that bod and 5 o’clock shadow! And the badass facial expression!

I’m eagerly waiting for their cameo in Fury MAX! (Mr Ennis you know you want to!)

Toozin, there’s an issue of Untold Tales of Spider-Man that reveals Wolverine knew Peter’s parents.

Will no one point out that Carmen is a girl’s name?

“Toozin, there’s an issue of Untold Tales of Spider-Man that reveals Wolverine knew Peter’s parents.”

Of course there is.

*sigh*

To be fair, Peter’s parents were spies. It makes a lot more sense that they’d know Wolverine than Kitty’s parents would.

Having xavier in Vietnam is a reasonable updating of having been in the Korean War. Down the road, I imagine it’ll be retconned again to one of the Gulf wars.
But yes, throwing in Mr. Pryde as his close buddy? Was there any payoff from this being Kitty’s father, dramatically speaking?

Boy, oh, boy, how I miss John Byrne’s beautiful and delicate, yet strong and detailed art (Terry Austin, probably had a lot to do with it), before it became lazy and scratchy. Check out the details inside Kity’s house, especially her room! I used to lust after his expensive X-Men back issues desplaying proudly on the wall behind the counter at the comic stores. What happened to his style?? How come he can’t maintain the quality and style like his peer, George Perez?

I love the subtly with which Claremont and Byrne showing Jean slowly going dark by abusing her powers. LOL

Not only did he know them, but Logan ran a mission with Peter’s parents, and he’s the one who told them that Mary Parker was pregnant. So it’s basically exactly as bad as Toozin was joking it would be. And then there’s that time that Wolverine warned Galan it was time to hightail out of Taa…

Ian: Carmen is more popular as a girl’s name, but there are guys named Carmen. There’s an actor named Carmen Argenziano who played a recurring character on Stargate SG-1, for instance, and a Canadian boxer named Carmen Rinke. In fact the fact that Carmen is a unisex name is a very minor plot point in the novel Lolita.

My memory is that Xavier’s flashbacks in this issue are a hallucination, or some type of dream sequence.

@Fraser, the real question is, was there ever any payoff to anything that happened in this incarnation of Excalibur? I remember reading it, waiting for it to get good. It never did. Unless, of course, you enjoy tentacle-armed Callisto.

Both of these storylines are Gawdawful thank you for alerting me to that fact.

I’m thinking the Excalibur with Xavier looking like 2Pac is “imaginary” but it’s funny that it’s even debatable.

Spider Jerusalem

October 28, 2012 at 2:08 pm

Please tell me that “Wolverine telling Galen to leave Taa” is a joke.

interesting not only to find out chris changed the first meeting of xavier and kittys dad by making them nam buddies serving together but also proof wolverine sure gets around the mu and knows xavier longer then fans have believed in the x-books.

Nah, he actually told Norrin Rad that old spaceship in the museum would probably get him as far as Galactus. He could tell by how it smelled.

Wasn’t it established that the Pryde/Xavier meeting was a hallucination brought on the Scarlet Witch? Charles spent most of that issue lost in his own head with a lot of weird, twisted memories and visions.

“None o’ my business, but I wouldn’t go up in that thing, bub. I smell a cosmic ray storm comin’. OK, well, it’s your funeral.”

So Carmen Pryde was a marine? I swear I read somewhere he had been a Green Beret.

Seeing hardass, hard dnking, ripped abs Xavier is just WEIRD. I grew up in the 80’s with the stodgy mentor in the wheechair. We got flashes of his past that showed how tough he was and could be, but it never hinted that he was a “badass” like the guy pictured here. If you had asked me who wrote this without showing me the credit line, I would have guessed Ennis and told you he was doing a parody…

Xavier was always a Vet and (pre-Lucifer) portrayed as a an Indiana Jones-type explorer. He spent most of the 80s out of a wheelchair actively leading either the X Men or Statjammers … so this definitely fits with that version. But I also find the Wolverine/Pryde/Xavier adventure a silly idea.

Oh yeah, Xavier being in Vietnam is just a logical update on his Korean War experience (like Reed and Ben’s World War II experience not exactly being part of their history any more) but Carmen Pryde being such a great pal that Xavier was going to be the best man at his wedding? Pretty weird.

By the way, while it technically DOES count, I won’t be featuring logical time shifts in Abandoned An’ Forsaked (like the aforementioned Xavier in Vietnam instead of Korean War and Reed and Ben no longer fighting in World War II). That kind of thing just is just too normal. Just in case anyone was curious. I am sure you are all EXTREMELY fascinated in the inner workings of this feature. ;)

I was so taken aback by how weird the Carmen Pryde retcon was that I didn’t even realize how off-the-wall the Wolverine aspect of this retcon was. Isn’t this basically two Abandoned and Foresakens in one? It basically retcons Xavier’s first meeting with Wolverine also, which is a way bigger deal. Did they claim somehow that both of them lost this memory in the decades since, because otherwise how did Claremont explain their interactions during the All-New, All Different X-Men, where it was clear they just met for the first time?

Also, Xavier’s voice is so off, so wrong, I can’t believe that’s Claremont scripting that. Xavier’s superhero physique is awesome though.

I was so taken aback by how weird the Carmen Pryde retcon was that I didn’t even realize how off-the-wall the Wolverine aspect of this retcon was. Isn’t this basically two Abandoned and Foresakens in one? It basically retcons Xavier’s first meeting with Wolverine also, which is a way bigger deal. Did they claim somehow that both of them lost this memory in the decades since, because otherwise how did Claremont explain their interactions during the All-New, All Different X-Men, where it was clear they just met for the first time?

Also, Xavier’s voice is so off, so wrong, I can’t believe that’s Claremont scripting that. Xavier’s superhero physique is awesome though.

There was a story involving Wolverine and Xavier meeting before All-New, All-Different X-Men and Xavier mind-wiping him of their previous meetings, so presumably it would take care of this, as well.

It is a tricky question, then, of whether that is an abandoned an’ forsaked. This Carmen thing, I think it counts, since Claremont never has Carmen mind-wiped, so you can’t explain away their meeting in X-Men #129. It has to be over-written/forsaked by this new issue. The Wolverine stuff, though, CAN be explained away with the mind-wipe, so nothing is technically forsaked, ya know? It’s tricky, though. Heck, I’d love to count it as an Abandoned An’ Forsaked. Always good to have more material, ya know? I just don’t think it fits, though.

That’s a good point, and I see what you mean. I didn’t know there was a story where Xavier mindwiped Wolverine. The only way I could see the Xavier/Wolverine counting as an Abandoned and Forsaked then is if one could fine thought balloons of Xavier’s from the original Uncanny X-Men issues that reflect that he never met Wolverine before. Sadly I don’t have my old X-Men issues to look through anymore to see.

I totally love that issue of Untold Tales of Spider-Man! It’s the Minus 1 issue from ’97, and it’s written by Roger Stern and drawn by Romita Sr! There’s also a backup by Fred Hembeck, and my copy is signed by both Hembeck and Stern.

Yeah, it’s goofy that Wolverine met the Parkers, but it’s a well done story. Still better than the entirety of the Wolverine Origins series where not only has Wolverine met everybody, but everybody’s memories have been erased and all that stupid stuff.

And man, what’s up with Carmen Pryde’s look? Look at how different he looks in the Excalibur issue than the Byrne stuff. Did he start going bald and then decided to grow the ‘stache to complete the Rowlf the Dog look?

One thing I’ve noticed over the years is that comics today emphasize military experience a lot more. Reed’s time in WW II was only mentioned in a couple of issues in the Silver Age; Xavier’s tour in Korea only once; and Hal Jordan’s time in the service was mentioned in passing in one issue. I wonder if it’s because military service was so much more routine back when we had a draft that everyone was more matter-of-fact about it.

Army captain/pilot/drama queen rooming with a Marine whatever-the-hell-billet-he-has and a Canadian Corporal (I think Hama put Wolverine a Corporal in Vietnam, Canadian Paratroopers…? Does that even exist, forgive me I don’t know Canada’s military very well)…uh…no. Not that it really matters, but they wouldn’t be “crossing the streams” living together, flying together, etc. They’ll work together in other capacities, sure. Also, Marines don’t do search and rescue, that’s AF. Maybe the Army does it, but I highly doubt it.

Whatever, a very dumb thing for me to get caught up on. I get spoiled with Ennis’ approach to historical fiction and his level of research.

I love the pre-X-Men Wolverine. First Chuck wanted to hire Sabretooth, then Wolverine was sent to kill Xavier (I know that happened in the Ultimates, also), now Neal Adams has Sabretooth and Wolverine forming their own X-Men before Xavier did, and this (which–while Claremont was king in his prime, his recent stuff does nothing for me)–Logan and Xavier are bunk mates in the Joint Services tent, it don’t matter what country/service you’re from, have some whiskey and lose your shirts.

Great article, mind-numbingly weird story. Thank you for sharing–I appreciate the fun distraction to this stupid hurricane!

I may be missing some additional information, but I don’t see enough proof in those panel to conclude that the marine with Xavier is definitely Kitty’s dad. All we know for sure is that they share a first name and a fiance/wife with similar names (which requires presuming that Terri is short for Theresa). I would be forced to conclude that it is a cleve nod by Claremont, but not enough to assume an abandoned or forsaken plot point.

Is there some reference that I am unfamiliar with, or more information that you posses that can clarify this one?

Sorry, Brandon, Xavier says later in the Excalibur issue that it is explicitly Carmen Pryde.

@LikeAPhoenix:

I miss John Byrne’s beautiful and delicate, yet strong and detailed art (Terry Austin, probably had a lot to do with it

Yeah, it was mainly Terry Austin. Byrne himself has said that whenever people say they love his work, if they’re talking about work he did with Terry Austin, then they really love Austin’s work because he added so much to Byrne’s pencils (or something to that effect).

Thanks for clarifying, Brian.

My favorite Reed or Ben during WWII story is this issue of CAPTAIN SAVAGE (#7) from 1968:

http://comicbookdb.com/graphics/comic_graphics/1/89/47929_20060630203550_large.jpg

“Objective: Ben Grimm!”

Sabertooth and Wolverine founded a pre-X-Men Xmen? Words fail me, my lord, I can only beg for the mercy of the court.

And that also retcons Xavier’s military service as having been in the Korean War, and changes it to Vietnam. Huh. Double retcon.

What a terrible and needless retcon. Claremont ran out of good ideas for the X-Men around 1984.

I really liked Excalibur back then. I’m a real sucker for Claremont, though. Even his stinkers feel like coming home.

Holy crap, thanks to Mike Blake for that awesome cover image. Captain Savage is surfing and firing a gun at the SAME TIME, for the lovagod!

That’s totally where Duvall’s character in Apocalypse Now comes from, innit? ;)

“There was a story involving Wolverine and Xavier meeting before All-New, All-Different X-Men and Xavier mind-wiping him of their previous meetings”

To me that just makes Xavier more of a dick. I remember when Logan was trying to find out about his past, weaponX and which of his memories (if any) were real and what was implanted. Xavier was supposedly helping him, but the mental blocks were too strong. So Xavier doesn’t wonder about any problems caused by his own fiddling around in Logans head, but also doesn’t bother divulging any info on what he may know about Logans real non implanted memory life.

I actually knew the person Carmen Pryde was based on. He was comic store owner in Edmonton who rpivided Mr. Byrne with rare issues and movies. By way of thank you he absorbed Carmen (that was his real first name) into the Marvel universe. And the origninal Carmen looked the way he appeared in his first appearance, not like that young marine. Carmen was very proud of his inclusion in X-Men comics. He said it gave him a little bit of immortality. Sad to say, the character has outlived the person.

Is there any character in the MU that hasn’t been mind-wiped by Xavier?

And are there any characters who have been wiped by him multiple times? Except Wolverine? :)

I’m sorry Brian but I have to call foul on this one. That second sequence is not a legit memory. Read the entire issue again. As someone said earlier it was one of a few “scrambled” memories Xavier was having as a result of trying to deal with Wanda’s mental problems in between the events of Avengers Disassembled and House of M. The inclusion of Carmen Pryde is a nod to recent continuity by Claremont because Xavier was living on the wrecked Genosha at the time and it was stated that Carmen Pryde was killed during the Genoshan Massacre since he was there on business.

LoL!!!!!

So Chuck Xavier was in ‘Nam with Carmen Pryde AND Wolverine?!? Yeah, OK. No wonder why the events of New Excalibur are ignored.

Maybe the first meeting of Professor X and Wolverine should be a future Abandone an’ Forsaked… wouldn’t be surprised if in the future it is revealed that Logan was Brian Xavier’s best friend while he was at Alamogordo Nuclear research facility serving in some security capacity and was also secretly Charles’ godfather.

then again, maybe Wolverine is *too* easy a topic… his character seems to be made up of mostly retcons now, you could probably do a decent article a week for a year or so.

@db… not to be too dark but Carmen Pryde is also dead. He was killed off camera in New X-Men #115 (Aug 2001) but confirmed later on. Weird to think that it’s been over a decade since Morrison rocked the X-Men’s world.

Couldn’t believe that was Xavier in that pic, he looks really badass in it. The Zombies’ Time Of The Season started playing in my head when I read that part. And I couldn’t believe it when I saw Wolverine there too, how does this fit with that First X-Men mini now?

I have always found Carmen Pryde to be a deeply poignant figure.

His father killed in a concentration camp during the Holocaust, Carmen grew up to be a corrupt accountant in Deerfield, Illinois with ties to the Yakuza. His criminal ventures led to a divorce with his wife, the alienation of his attention seeking daughter who worshiped him as a hero, resulting in her being forced to become a ninja.

So how did an accountant from Deerfield obtain connections with the Yashida crime family in Japan?

Just prior to his death, Kitty Pryde went missing for six months. She had read the Destiny Diaries and seen something horrible in them. Was it her father’s death? Did she refuse to prevent it in order to prevent an even more horrible occurrence? She had recently learned she was Neo. Was Carmen a Neo?

Just what was Carmen involved in?

Given Kitty was to become the next Saturnyne (revealed by CC in Tue Sørensen and Ulrik Kristiansen’s interview with him for seriejournalen in 1995), and revelations that she was a Neo (X-Men #100), does this suggest that the Braddocks were also (and explain why they initially appeared faerie-like but were mutants – given CC’s reveal that the Neo were mistaken for faeries in ancient times)?

Of further interest is the Logan in X-Men: True Friends being from the future (given his adamantium claws), being sent there it would seem by Landau, Luckman & Lake (maybe the Wolverine from after his time shown here with Charles).

Was Wolverine an agent of LL&L at this time and perhaps posted there to investigate Carmen Pryde. He then perhaps gets sent back in time to 1936 at the juncture Kitty arrives there to ensure she survives her encounter with the Shadow King.

If there to protect her for some high purpose in the future, does this finally suggest LL&L are a company established by the Omniverse?

If Wolverine is LL&L’s agent here, this might finally explain Claremont’s interview in Back Issue #4 where he suggests that his mentorship of Kitty was part of a larger, panoramic tapestry that X-Men: True Friends would have put into a lot more of a context had it been released when he originally intended.
Here Claremont revealed he intended the whole relationship between Kitty and Logan (Wolverine) to be more complicated and far-reaching than had been suspected up until that point. That is, Kitty was someone that Claremont intended Logan to have taken under his wing because he knew things about her that she doesn’t know, a linkage between them that goes back well before she was born.

So basically Claremont intended Logan to have been thinking about Kitty since the 1930s, and that the fact that the X-Men went to Deerfield in X-Men #129 (1980) was not an accident. That is, Charley had not, as believed, used Cerebro, but he’d intended that it was Wolverine’s idea to go seek her out and Xavier followed it up due to Wolvie whispering something in his ear.

So Kitty becomes part of the team because Wolverine set it up.

Did Otherworld become aware that the Shadow King had corrupted Carmen so he could get his clutches into Kitty to groom her to become Sat-Yr-9 (explaining Sat-Yr-9 becoming White Queen of the Hellfire Club when masquerading as Courtney Ross), so they, through their cover company, LL&L, recruited Wolverine as an agent to prevent these plans?

That has to be a joke, right? Why are WOlverine and Xavier both in Vietnam? Charley was also in WWII with Magneto so he wold have to be nearly as old as Logan. And Carmen Pryde? He must have really let himself go between ‘Nam and Deerfield. WHo cares about him anyway? What the heck happened to Kitty’s mother?

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