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Comic Book Team Tournament – X-Mansion Region, Round 1 Winners!

The first round of results are here!

All results are rounded to the nearest whole number, except when doing so would result in a tie.


Out of 1,468 votes, Morrison’s New X-Men gunned down Abnett/Lanning’s Guardians of the Galaxy 66% to 34%…

Out of 1,357 votes, Moore/O’Neill’s LoEG ended Giffen/Bierbaum’s Legion 73% to 27%…

Out of 1,317 votes, Ostrander’s Suicide Squad devastated Hickman’s Secret Warriors 58% to 42%…

Out of 1,364 votes, Vaughan/Alphona’s Runaways tore apart Busiek/Bagley’s Thunderbolts 52% to 48%…

Out of 1,396 votes, Bendis’ Avengers knocked out Englehart’s Avengers 52% to 48%…

Out of 1,434 votes, Claremont/Cockrum wrecked Morrison’s Doom Patrol 70% to 30%…

Out of 1,395 votes, Remender’s Uncanny X-Force walked all over Claremont/Davis’ Excalibur 50.82% to 49.18%…

Out of 1,374 votes, Wolfman/Perez’s Teen Titans sunk Parker’s Thunderbolts 76% to 24%…


Holy moley, I’m honestly shocked that Doom Patrol was defeated so soundly! And disappointed but less surprised at the losses of Englehart’s Avengers and Excalibur.

Dammit. How many votes did Excalibur lose by? That was damn close.

Voting Bendis’ Avengers over Englehart’s Avengers is kind of like voting One Direction for Best British Band over the Beatles.

Claremont/Cockrum UNCANNY X-MEN over Morrison/Case DOOM PATROL is a travesty. Cockrum is a great costume designer and a giant of the Bronze Age, but their work together is a pale shadow of Claremont/Byrne.

Morrison/Case, on the other hand, pretty well rescued The Doom Patrol from being a Silver Age curiosity. It is deep and complex and interesting.

@Rollo – I believe 23 votes, if my math is correct. (709-686)

Wow. The fact that that oft-thought beloved Morrison’s Doom Patrol was creamed shocked the hell out of me. Is this some sort of Morrison/DC backlash? I could understand if Claremont/Byrne X-Men was its opponent, but seriously, Claremont/Cockrum X-Men?!

I imagine it is just a matter of Claremont/Cockrum not being a run that anyone actually thinks much of, so it does not do well when we ask people to name runs they like, but when they’re actually specifically ASKED to think about it, they like it/admire it well enough.

Forget all that, lookit how LOEG creamed the 5 Years Later Legion! Damn! Hell, I voted for LOEG, but there seemed to be plenty of love for the Legion in the comments.

What all is entailed by the Claremont/Cockrum run, anyway? I’d guess that people voted more cuz it’s Claremont XMen rather than any anti Morrison or anything. Probably. I dunno. Jeez.

Ugh, I hate that all 3 of the close votes here went opposite way that I voted for. I could have done so much more. Stupid scruples.

Bendis beats Englehart? I cant believe comic readers prefer five years of talking heads and disappointing conclusions over all action, story packed classic superheroes. This demonstrates why so many comics are disappointing to me – I have just moved so far from their target market.

I have a feeling that most of the people who voted for Bendis over Englehart didn’t actually read Englehart’s run. Opinions are subjective of course, but it’s hard to believe anybody who read both would think Bendis’s run was better.

I’m a very big Morrison fan but I picked Claremont/Cockrum over Doom Patrol. I’d consider picking it over Claremont/Byrne, too! The latter run is great but overrated, imo. It seemed to be used as a catch-all for “everything that was good in Claremont’s X-Men”. But those Cockrum issues did a ton of the heavy lifting, from costume designing to creating and “killing” Phoenix the first time around.

I am surprised that Claremont/Cockrum beat Doom Patrol that handily, though…

“I have a feeling that most of the people who voted for Bendis over Englehart didn’t actually read Englehart’s run. Opinions are subjective of course, but it’s hard to believe anybody who read both would think Bendis’s run was better.”

This one was a tough one for me because i enjoy both runs, but I read Englehart’s run in the Essential volumes very recently and the dialogue doesn’t always hold up that wel,l so Bendis’ run narrowly nudged it out for me. But it was definitely one of those “I live this” vs “I like that too” cases.

Andrew Collins

March 24, 2013 at 1:18 pm

Wow, considering Morrison and Case’s DP is my all-time favorite “run” on any comic, I am shocked that it got beaten, and beaten so roundly. Claremont and Cockrum are fine creators and did some good things with their X-Men comics, but Morrison and Case on DP did some amazingly original things with their stories, producing a comic that still stands alone in my mind for what it strived for and achieved. Sad to see it get overlooked by so many voters…

And I’m sad too about Excalibur. I haven’t read Remender’s X-Force, so I can’t speak to its quality, but I just re-read the Claremont/Davis issues of Excalibur last week for the first time in years and was pleasantly surprised by how well they hold up and how entertaining they are. They really stand alone from the other X-comics being published at the time, in a good way. Yes, the “Cross Time Caper” bogged things down a bit after around issue #16, with the non-Davis drawn issues of the CTC being pretty rubbish, but the run as a whole is strong. I just started reading the later issues where Davis came back and took over as writer and artist, and those are proving to be some fun comics as well…

Doom Patrol getting beaten so bad makes black baby Jesus cry, CSBG voters

I wonder if the Englehart run would have been helped with Perez listed as artist?

Well, Englehart’s Avengers and Excalibur lost by close margins. So that’s some consolation. Still sad that ANYONE would prefer Bendis over Englehart. I know I’m becoming an old curmudgeon, but complaining about unnatural dialogue in old comics sounds like the guys who can’t watch classic movies, because stuff happened as if in a play, it was in R&B, there were few things filmed in location, etc. Every age has its style. Englehart’s Avengers was among the best superhero comics of its time. Bendis’s Avengers is very close to the average among the comics of its time.

Ooops… it was in B&W I mean. They didn’t have R&B music in old movies. LOL

Don’t get me wrong, Rene. I do like Englehart’s stuff, but there were other things as well that felt “off”; I can’t specifics off the top of my head; I liked the stories but didn’t love them, so it’s too soon for me to go back and reread them. I think part of the issue is we part ways further on Bendis. If I did agree that Bendis was only average, Englehart’s Avengers would have gotten the nod from me. But of the modern decompressed style (which I admit is flawed), I consider Bendis to be one of the better writers. Not on PAD’s level (and his writing’s packed enough that it’s not really that decompressed) but above Fraction, Remender, Johns, etc.

Beyond that, I went with my gut. On a purely gut level I like Bendis’ writing more,and it’s hard to argue with a gut reaction.

        今天上的是中班,但是也基本从早上开始上班。工作已经四个多月了,一直很平淡。        这周新老板让做一个一张纸的PPt,就翻找了一些自己以前的照片,忽然萌生了很想把过去翻看一遍的感觉。登上了校内和Q,其实每天我基本都会登一次,也就是看看大家的状态啊,日志什么的。 &nbsp,AOGUOLI.COM/;     今天看过所有大家更新的东西之后,56408.COM/,一个个挨着看了在最内心的人的空间,看看他们都过得是否还好。       看到了当初的决绝,看到了小资的温馨,看到了依旧的淡定,看到了天生的与众不同,看到了温暖的阳光,看到了煎熬的坚持与奋斗,看到了一时偏离的坠落,看到了辉煌的飞腾,看到了书店的安静与宽阔,看到了风吹过留下的蓝,看到了佛与道的精深……       往日的记忆依旧那样清晰,可时过境迁的现在我们已经匆匆奔向了各自的前方,或许我不再出现于你们的世界,也会在一个安静的空间为你们祈祷,愿你们一切安好….       现在是凌晨的三点,要是被某个人看见了,他肯定会说怎么还不睡觉呢?呵呵,晚安@my love 

Well, obviously you like what you like, Andy. And that is cool.

But I would still take most of what Fraction and Johns wrote over Bendis’s Avengers. There are just too many things in Bendis’s Avengers that bother me. No, not necessarily that he “changed the franchise too much.”

There is his surprisingly weak grasp of action scenes, for instance. When we get Englehard or Thomas, or even Johns, I have the impression that they coreograph battles and power usage in a more “concrete” fashion. Bendis is a lot of people punching each other confusingly, and then someone shoots someone in anti-climatic fashion. It’s just weird.

Also his go-nowhere stories with a lot of repetition until the big crossover that is anti-climatic too and only leads to the next big crossover and etc.

And I say this as someone who loves Bendis’s work in ALIAS and POWERS. And also DAREDEVIL. But his writing AVENGERS is one of the most mismatched franchise/writer combinations that I have seen in comics. But obviously a lot of people disagree with me, considering that he sells like hotcakes.

I like Morrison’s Doom Patrol but I voted for for Claremont/Cockrum’s X-People because unless I’m mistaken the poll asked which one I like best, and that original Claremont/Cockrum run was my introduction to the X-Men when I was a kid. I vaguely remembered having seen the original team in some obscure Marvel-Team-Up but the “All-New X-Men” was where I discovered it all, on the ground floor. Wolverine was an absolutely refreshing anti-hero, a kind that would later become commonplace but at that time he was truly outrageous. He SMOKED and he wasn’t Nick Fury, people! Once upon a time that was a big deal! Cockrum’s contribution to the X-Men is often underrated because of the flashier and more successful Claremont/Byrne run that followed it, but the groundwork was all laid out in those first stories. Among Cockrum’s multiple virtues I’d like to point out his work with facial expressions; those characters were alive with personality like few heroes of the time, from Nightcrawler’s theatricality to Banshee’s mature amusement at his younger teammates and Cyclops’ unrelenting tension. Kevin Maguire is widely celebrated for his work with facial expressions, but too often his characters “overact” ridiculously with misplaced grimaces and grins, while Cockrum gave each character a personality and let the expressions flow from there. Yes Cockrum was a master of costume design, but he was MORE than just that, and his contribution to the X-Men shaped many of that franchise’s defining elements.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that I have the same emotional attachment to the Claremont/Cockrum X-Men run that some people seem to have towards Englehart’s Avengers.

And regarding Englehart’s Avengers – I voted for Bendis’ run even though it was really a coin flip for me. I know there’s a lot of hostility from older Avengers fans towards Bendis’ Assemblers, as they supposedly weren’t the “real” Avengers or some similar rationalization (as if dramatic membership overhauls weren’t one of the Avengers’ defining tropes since their earliest days), but I consider his work in that series highly underrated. I say this because I remember vividly how hard the Avengers sucked before Bendis got there (oh yes they SUUUCKED, people remember the Busiek/Perez run fondly but there was a lot of garbage before and after that. I can understand the argument that Bendis’ style isn’t suited to the Avengers, but that’s only true if one has a narrow definition of what the Avengers should be; I personally had no problems with this approach. Yes the Avengers discussed their problems a lot, because Bendis knows his strenghts, and the book’s sales attest that most readers were perfectly entertained. And before someone mentions that it was only popular because it had Spider-Man and Wolverine in it, let’s keep in mind that since their conception the Avengers have been an assemblage of Marvel’s most popular heroes (as befits a comic created to be the company’s JLA). This is when someone says “but Spider-Man is a loner!”… and no he isn’t, there are piles of Marvel Team-Ups that prove it; maybe he was a discredited loner when he was a kid but the reality is that in-universe Spider-Man is one of the most respected members of Marvel’s superhero community and his inclusion in the team was absolutely logical. If anything, Wolverine’s addition may be harder to justify, but this IS a group that accepted the original mean-spirited grey Hulk and a pair of former mutant terrorists. But it makes sense if the Avengers are Marvel’s JLA; if that’s the case, Wolverine being included in the Avengers is as logical as Green Arrow being included in the League (one can justify Batman’s presence because he’s the goddamn Batman, but poor underpowered Green Arrow has always been out-of-place among the JLA’s demigods).

But in the end it was a coin toss and I might perfectly well have voted for the Englehart run, but I had to choose one. So I voted for the tightly-plotted run that reinvigorated the franchise and brought the Avengers back to the MU’s center stage, after a period of crushing mediocrity. To paraphrase the Highlander, “there could be only one”.

Tighly-plotted? Like, they fight the Hood every other issue and nothing really happens? That is lazily-plotted.

That there was a lot of garbage in the AVENGERS before Bendis and he made them popular again seems like a poor reason to like it over Englehart’s. And I agree that there was a lot of bargage, I don’t think I really liked the book since Roger Stern left. No, not even Busiek’s run, who was too full of “reverence”, IMO.

And that is a bit of a straw argument. I don’t really mind Spidey and Wolverine and all the rest of Bendis’s favorites, though I should note that Marvel is different from DC in that the most popular heroes in-universe and out-of-universe are not the same in Marvel, as they are in DC. Guys like Wonder Man (actor) and the Wasp (socialite) are more popular than Spider-Man (vigilante) and Luke Cage (mercenary), for denizens of the MU.

But it doesn’t really bother me that much, there have been a lot of Avengers over the years. Instead, the stories that seemed to be about nothing, and dragged and dragged, until the next crossover. It was supposed to be cutting edge, ’cause it was Bendis, but we didn’t get even that. It had the superficial appearance of being cutting edge, but it was all emptiness, all flash and no bang, unlike a true cutting edge AVENGERS book, like Mark Millar’s THE ULTIMATES.

It is notable that THE ULTIMATES was the AVENGERS’ story that inspired the movies, while Bendis’s was just ignored, despite his being the writer of the “official” version.

I agree with you about Cockrum’s X-Men, though. The characters had true emotion there, instead of the empty posturing of, say, Bendis’s Avengers.

Les Fontenelle

March 26, 2013 at 8:30 am

…Or of the hilariously overrated Englehart’s Avengers. ;)

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