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Abandoned Love: So HOW is Scarlet Witch a Good Guy Again?

Every installment of Abandoned Love we will be examining comic book stories, plots and ideas that were abandoned by a later writer while still acknowledging that the abandoned story DID still happen. Click here for an archive of all the previous editions of Abandoned Love. Feel free to e-mail me at bcronin@comicbookresources.com if you have any suggestions for future editions of this feature.

This time around, we look at how Scarlet Witch was redeemed from her villainous actions from Avengers Disassembled…

In Avengers #503, Brian Michael Bendis explained how the Scarlet Witch went nuts. First off, she discovered that she had had two kids (her memory was wiped of this knowledge after it was revealed that her kids were actually just creations of her powers – she eventually DID recall this knowledge but Bendis retconned it so that she never did remember her kids. The bizarre tale of her two kids was told in an Abandoned an’ Forsaked a while back)…


She went to Agatha Harkness for help (who Bendis also retconned as being dead)…

And this ended up with her snapping and taking on the Avengers with her super reality-altering powers, killing a number of Avengers in the process…



At the end of the conflict (which made up Avengers Disassembled), Magneto took her to Genosha to watch over her. The Avengers and the X-Men debated what to do with her. Some argued that she should be killed. Her brother Quicksilver decided to get her to use her reality-altering powers to make a new world where mutants were in charge. This was the crossover event known as the House of M. When she realized what she had done, Wanda’s solution was to eliminate mutants period, which she did in House of M #7…

She popped up a few places after House of M, seemingly powerless and without any memory of her past, living in Eastern Europe.

In Avengers: The Children’s Crusade, Wanda’s kids (the souls that Wanda used to create her kids ended up in other kids after they were seemingly destroyed. These two kids ended up as members of the Young Avengers) tracked her down, although she was still without memory and about to marry Doctor Doom, as seen here in the third issue of the series by Allan Heinberg and Jimmy Cheung…

After much to do, her memories and powers returned to her in the sixth issue of the series…

The following issue we get the scoop on how she went nuts. The first part of Avengers #503 is still followed, the only difference is that now we learn where she went afterwards to bring her sons back…

So there you go, Wanda was possessed and therefore it was not really her fault. That was enough for the Avengers to eventually forgive her. That likely will eventually be enough for Cyclops to be forgiven someday, as well (for killing Professor X while possessed by the Phoenix).

However, they never actually say that Wanda lost all free will, which is why I’m sticking it here in Abandoned Love instead of with Abandoned an’ Forsaked. I think changing it from “She did it” to “She did it because she couldn’t handle all of the power she has absorbed” is one thing, but “She did it” to “She did it because she was possessed by a powerful being who specifically MADE her do it” is one step further and that gets into the world of forsaking the original story while this just gives more context to the original story.

If YOU have a suggestion for a future Abandoned Love, e-mail me at bcronin@comicbookresources.com


It SHOULD be enough for Cyclops to be forgiven, but so far it’s not. People keep saying that being possessed by the Phoenix is no excuse for him killing Xavier. Never mind the stuff Jean did, or Wanda. Hell, they immediately forgave Xavier when he became corrupted by Onslaught and had supposedly killed a majority of the Avengers and the Fantastic Four. Its funny how Cyclops is the only one who’s not being given a chance.

Being possessed worked for Hal Jordan, too for killing the whole Green Lantern Corps (Parallax). And Hulk (Nightmare) World War Hulking. And Superman just being a bit mopey after watching 100,000 Kryptionians die.

To be fair, Cyclops spent most of the last several years building and burning so many bridges prior to AvX, and the fact that hes really unrepentant about any of his actions really hurts that in the long term. Xavier at least tried to seek atonement for all the shit he fucked up.

Yeah I’ve really failed to see why everyone is so mad at Scott when they’ve forgiven others for doing EXACTLY THE SAME THING. It’s a plot point that really isn’t working for me lately.

given that even doom stated that wanda once they tapped into the one source of power to bring back wanda’s kids that it possessed her. can see that as the main reason bendis made her nuts for wanda was being controled by some out side force. the same reason cyclops should sooner or later be forgiven since he was controlled by the phoenix force..

Interesting read. I never really followed much of this. I can’t say I regret it, but I am inordinately happy to discover this amazing line:

“I’m the son you thought was dead but whose soul migrated into the body of a gay jewish avenger fanboy who grew up on the upper west side”

Cyclops has never had a moment where he has shown himself accepting any responsibility for what happened. Throughout AvX all he did was throw the first punch then claim to be the victim. Once he lost his powers he immediately decided the best course of action was to blame the rest of the world for not forgiving him and team up with the people who were on his side when he was on his path to killing Xavier in the first place.

Even before AvX his attitude was I know better than everyone else and anybody who disagrees with me doesn’t care about mutants as much as he does. In the words of Kitty “Cyclops is a JERK”

(Wow, I have a surprising amount of Cyclops hate in me.)

So after Cyke was possessed and killed Xavier and went on the lam does he still blame Wanda? Because it seems like he should have a little more empathy now…

this is exactly why all the ‘we hate Cyclops’ stuff isn’t resonating with me whatsoever. Yeah Cyclops has been a jerk, but then…this is comics, almost everyone has been a jerk at some point in their superheroic career.

It’s nice that Saint Wolverine is finally being called out for killing loads of people/a child, but of course he’ll still be an Avenger after the current Uncanny Avengers arc ends because, y’know…Wolverine.

See, if she hadn’t entered the power battery and absorbed the power of the Green Lanterns, then the Parallax entity wouldn’t have entered her, thus corrupting her.

wait, what?

I will always hate Bendis for the abomination he did with Wanda Disassembled and House of M. I’m sick of this story.

He ignored her development, overcoming, powers, personality, beliefs and most readers (even old ones) even realized it. Just pathetic.

Overcoming because it was surpassed in WCA Annual # 7.
Powers because she never had manipulating reality. And her powers were increased by Immortus made??.
Personality because she would never take revenge on the friends she loves. And much less destroy the mutants
Conviction because it would not be the way it was.

And most importantly, the supposed mental illness that she never had. There is an argument that she went insane several times but this is a mistake.

Wanda was possessed by Chthon (several characters already owned). Was manipulated by Immortus along the Avengers (the moment of “madness” in Darker than Scarlet it was because of that).

Anyway, terrible.

Killing one guy that was trying to mind-wipe you (again) when you’re possessed by a cosmic force that you were given only by someone else’s screw-up: Unforgivable.

Murdering in your own free will thousands of people in a period of more than 100 years, including your own children: You’re awesome and fit to run a school full of children and be an Avenger.

Wildly convoluted and it still leaves a bunch of questions hanging around without explanation. Like, what was the deal with Layla Miller and her ‘Total Recall Stare’ abilities in HoM? Why didn’t Wanda’s reality-shifting makeover affect any Skrulls? What happened to the souls of the two kids who just so happened to be dead ringers for her and Pietro when she stuffed her kids’ souls into them. Oh, and since those souls were actually parts of Mephisto , why hasn’t he shown any interest whatsoever in getting his stuff back?

Meh, doesn’t work for me. They should have just gone with the most obvious answer, Avengers: Disassembled Wanda was a Skrull plant who went tonto-loco and everything that followed – up through Civil-War and Secret Invasion, and including the fiasco of AvX – was caused by a sub-conscious tug of war between her Wanda and Skrull personas messing with reality to help and then hurt the heroes.

And IMHO, Cyclops didn’t kill Xavier, Bendis killed Xavier. Cyclops just got stuck with the blame because by the end of AvX the writers needed – something – they could pin on him that would retrospectively justify the Avengers and Saint Logan acting as thuggish as Civil-War era Iron Man. Otherwise you’ve just got a whole lot of flabble about secret Iron Fist links to the Phoenix force, Wanda’s never before seen or even hinted at effect on it, and a short chat about responsibility with Spider-Man to explain how the Avengers totally didn’t follow Cyclops’ original plan to save the world and reboot the mutant race. But that topic has been talked to death so, yeah, blaming it on the ‘Skrull Witch’ makes a lot more sense to me.

Ug, I hate pretty much anything they’ve done to poor Wandy since the early 90s. Here’s hoping with fingers duly crossed that they stick to 60s, 70s, and 80s character arcs for her (and Vision).

Just got here, hope this hasn’t been asked or answered yet. I heard tales that Witch was supposed to be the sacrifice at the end of Siege. That the whole thing was plotted way ahead of time by Bendis, but that Marvel felt it would be too upsetting. So he was forced to use the Sentry instead. Anyone else heard this?

Thanks, Nemesis@! Exactly my thoughts on the whole thing! It isn’t so much ‘forgiving and forgetting’ what Wanda did as it is undoing the horrible writing that went into such a contrived storyline.

“Just got here, hope this hasn’t been asked or answered yet. I heard tales that Witch was supposed to be the sacrifice at the end of Siege. That the whole thing was plotted way ahead of time by Bendis, but that Marvel felt it would be too upsetting. So he was forced to use the Sentry instead. Anyone else heard this?”

No, and I’m not seeing the logic in the theory. It’s not like Marvel’s shy about killing anyone and everyone they need to make a buck — and then bring them back the very second they are missed. In the past decade alone, they killed off everyone from Steve Rogers to Peter Parker. Do you really think Wanda would’ve been considered untouchable when those two aren’t?

Also, it’s hard for me to believe that there are still people out there that consider Marvel deaths as anything more serious than a broken leg. What would happen if an athlete broke his leg during competition? He’d be on the shelf for a few months, then return like he was never gone. That’s what Marvel deaths are.

So why does anyone care who gets their leg broken? It’s not a big deal. Never has been. We just associate the word “death” with what it means in real life, even though comic books have repeatedly trained us not to.

The difference between Cyclops and Wolverine or Wanda…

The people that Wolverine killed very much had it coming -except in circumstances in which he was being controlled (such as NorthStar). It is becoming more and more common for heroes in both Marvel and DC to kill bad guys without much thought.

Wanda was “under the influence” and grief stricken about her two children after people had repeatedly messed with her mind.

Cyclops knew first-hand what the Phoenix Force was about (his own girl-friend took her own life rather than allow the force to use her) and still he put the “possibility” of a renewed Mutant race over the safety of the world and the universe. So yes, he was being controlled by the Phoenix Force when he killed Xavier, but he was fighting the Avengers on the foolish belief that a teen girl could control the Phoenix force when he knew how destructive it could be. He gambled the entire world and more, on the off-chance he was right. It turns out he was right AND wrong. He started to make amends by turning himself in to face punishment, but no one was looking out for him and what happened to him in prison is probably a lot like what would have happened in the real world. As it is, he set mutant-human relations back to square one. So yeah, he’s fighting mutant abuse, but he’s largely responsible for how bad it has reverted.

The difference is, Scott is a dick. Always has been. It’s not easy to forgive a lame, wet blanket dick who abandoned his family because his ex-girlfriend showed up and then hooked up with a cheap whore for a make out session on his other wife’s grave.

There’s a big piece of the puzzle missing here, and that’s John Byrne’s role in all of this. It was Byrne, after all, who connected the dots and proposed that Wanda is probably the most powerful being since the Beyonder. Why? Because when you alter the probability of something happening, you are effectively reshaping not only reality, but history.

Think about it. Something as inane as provoking a chandelier to fall on a bad guy and knock him out. Did she throw a laser that knocked the chandelier loose? No. She never actually touched the thing. She simply transformed the probability of the chandelier falling at this precise moment, into an absolute certainty. So her powers are capable of going back in time, adding 1.384% more oxidation around the chandelier in the century it’s been hanging there, so that it would fall right when she wanted it to.

Though the result of the act is kind of lame (big whoop, falling chandelier, right?) what it took to make it happen was Beyonder-level power. Power she had in her all along. How else do you turn probability into certainty? You *have* to retro-actively affect the object’s history. That’s history-altering powers for reality-altering results.

More than just liking Byrne’s theory, I agreed with it. It was the only way to explain her doing the things she can do. The fact that she hasn’t eliminated every bad guy the Avengers ever faced within 2 seconds of facing them (by simply making the probability that they all trip and knock themselves out into a certainty) could be explained by her lack of creativity or understanding of her own abilities.

Then Bendis connected the remaining dots. She was born a mutant and should have been an X-Man… except the Avengers got their hands on her first. So she did not receive the same training most mutants got at the Xavier school. She became a woman as an Avenger. A hero. An idol. Like someone born on the right side of the tracks will have a very different understanding of what the reality is on the other side of it.

Someone like that could, naively, believe that mutants are a problem and need to be eliminated.

It all made sense. It all had more science and psychology behind it than most comic books tend to offer. It was a fantastic way to launch New Avengers.

Unfortunately, we ended up learning that Bendis had no follow-through for Wanda (besides making Hawkeye rape her while she wasn’t in her right mind) so this opened the door for other writers to come in and use the old “mind control” device to retcon everything away.

What a waste of a perfectly logical storyline… to return to non-sensical fiction writing. How can Wanda make a chandelier fall on someone without affecting its history?

“It’s magic, it doesn’t need to be explained.”

And while fiction writers in other forms of media continue to take things in a more mature, smarter, better-explained direction than they were in 80’s, comic books continue to revert back to how they were back then. It’s why we can’t go 5 years without Tony Stark wearing his classic red & gold armor (every artist needs to draw it before they die), and why it seems every comic book writer alive wants to write the same comics he read as a kid.

But the world has evolved since Family Ties and The Cosby Show. Those shows would not survive today. They were considered smart and edgy for their today, but compared to Breaking Bad and Walking Dead, they’re one-dimensional children’s shows.

Like comic books.

I’m down to 1 or 2 titles, but I had over a dozen of them back during Civil War.. with Tony Stark and Steve Rogers acting out the Republican vs Democrat reality of today.. with Peter Parker revealing his identity to the world, and various spider-writers treating the event with as much realism as they can.. Tony Stark coming out of Civil War as the head of SHIELD.. it was all treated with so much realism, and parallels to real life.. it felt like comics had “grown up”.

Once Quesada finally fulfilled his dream of finally getting into Hollywood and Alonso took over, it was back to the regular status quo. I don’t know how sales have fared since then, compared to the Quesada regime… but the current product just doesn’t speak to me anymore.

Some of these retcons I think are just Bendis not doing his research. This keeps coming up for me in Avengers Assemble and his Guardians of the Galaxy stuff. He constantly refers to Gamora as Thanos’s daughter, which isn’t quite true, but at least an argument could be made for it. But then he has “the Elders of the Universe” show up, and some of them, like the Stranger and the In-Betweener, totally aren’t Elders of the Universe at all. And what’s with Rocket Raccoon suddenly getting upset about people calling him a raccoon? HIS NAME IS ROCKET RACCOON!

Cyclops IS guilty because he knows better than anyone what the Phoenix was capable of and he tried to play with fire anyways. He thought he could control it, tried to use it for his own ends (a COSMIC FORCE), and did this when there was a greater than 0% chance of planetary destruction. that’s unforgivable, considering it lead to the death of a better man than him (screw Whedon and Brubaker), and when it came time o pay for his crimes, he ducked out on the responsibility. Now whether or no Wanda should have been forgiven so easily is another matter entirely.

Wait. So you are saying that the Avengers (or for that matter the Young Avengers) forgave her for embarking on such a misguided trip?

I don’t think Wanda remains a viable character as long as the canonical history says that she acted that recklessly and foolishly. At this point she is more corrupt than Cyclops (or for that matter Parallax) ever were.

And I’m referring to before Cyclops even took partial control of the Phoenix Force, when the plan was to use Hope as his own personal Phoenix tool. Afterwards, when he still had some semblance of control, instead of trying to rid himself of it, he still tried to use it for his own ends. A least feux-Jean Grey killed herself when she felt control slipping again.

The problem I always had with this explanation for Wanda’s power increase is that both Bendis and Heinberg ignored 2 logical and easy (some will say to easy) continuity points as to why and how Wanda developed reality warping power’s,

The frist one when she and the rest of the Avengers, FF, Dr. Doom merged with Onslaught to give him a physical form the X-MEN could destroy their wasn’t supposed be any mutants involved because since he was born of mutants he might’ve been able to hide in someone with a mutant genome. (Although Namor joined in too and he was considered the first mutant since the late 80’s)

The second reason for her power increase could potentially be traced back to Busick’s first Avengers story post Heroes Return when Morgan (Lefay, Lafay I’m not sure which way its supposed to be spelled) use Wanda’s caos magic to pull and use the Asgardian Twilight Sword to bed reality where she ruled the world from a Camelot like England (loved most of Perez’s Camelot inspired designs by way).

And a third could have been when found DC’s chaos magic stronger and more toxic to her in JLA Avengers. Through most fans and creator’s on on both side’s hated how it played out decided not to reference it again

Avengers Disassembled was a completely STUPID IDEA. If I could go back in time, I’d ensure that it would never be written. Heroes should be heroes, anti-heroes should be anti-heroes, villains should be villains.

No more giving heroes the Hal Jordan-as-Parallax treatment!!!

To be clear about my last paragraph I was of course talking about Wanda being overwhelmed by DC’s chaos magic, and through their was talk about it being mentioned in as a part of both compaiosnies continuties before the first issue came out (mainly iternet buzz although I did see mention of this rumour in some real comic trade magazines)
We know Marvel wasn’t happy with this series since before the second issue saw print and was saying hell no about this rumor since then.
Didio did allow Busiek to wire part the implications in to his JLA story before Infinite Crisis wrote out of DC’s continuity completely.

Bendis is the greatest character destroyer at Marvel comics. And he loves his job.

All those mentioned above tried to learn from their mistakes and make up for them. All except for Cyclops. Since avx he has gone on the run, running a school out of torture chamber, and other things. Really hasn’t changed or tried to make for killing professor x. All he is doing is making the mistakes that lead to avx and even worse mistakes.

While I don’t know what Bendis’s original plans were for Siege, it is possible that they might have vetoed it once this story was approved. This is one of those things we’ll never know until people in the comics business can talk freely (which they can’t, because there aren’t enough places to go) but it’s the story of the search for the Scarlet Witch was something Allan Heinberg had announced as the first arc in the never-made second “season” of Young Avengers, and there was a lot of whispering that either Bendis or Marvel editorial had put the kibosh on the idea of retconning her responsibility for Disassembled. Whatever the reason they finally did it, and as awkwardly as they did it, I’m glad that story showed Bendis as little respect as it did (the best part being, of course, when Hawkeye sleeping with an amnesiac Wanda was retconned as Hawkeye sleeping with a Doombot).

I think the “Wanda was possessed” retcon actually makes the whole “We forgive Wanda, want Cyclops thrown in a hole for all time” bit worse. Frankly, when they just thought she lost her mind but got better, I could almost accept them bringing her back into the fold (of course the idea of her on an Avengers Unity Team remains absurd). Sure, it’s nuts for there not to be more resentment, but it is what it is. But to add in “she was possessed” the contrast with Cyclops is just not acceptable.

But let’s be honest: Cyclops’ character was assassinated in order to elevate Wolverine. It started with the foolish and absurd schism and finished with the resolution to the AvX Phoenix gambit. Despite this, I still find Cyclops to be a more interesting character. Wolverine has never been less interesting.

Cyclops has never been interesting.

First to the Bendis haters: Wanda has ALWAYS been unstable. It’s in fact one of the reasons WHY she is one of my favorite characters: Because she could flip her lid and let loose with her powers at any moment. Bendis didn’t do any character assasination on Wanda, he took another look at that aspect of her personality. And it’s why Dissassembled works as a story. Don’t believe me, go look up some Englehart or Byrne, or heck, even Stan Lee written stuff. Wanda is a fragile soul with powers that no one, human, mutant or other, should have. I’m surprised she doesn’t go nuts more often!

Second to those who think Scott is a dick … well, Scott IS a dick, and always has been, but that’s oversimplfying it. Scott was always a cold, hard person, it’s the result of being raised in the orphange by Sinister, having his brother taken away to a loving family, dealing with uncontollable then manipulated by the thief the Living Diamond as a teen, and then taken in by Xavier, who wasn’t exactly a bag of sunshine himself, and living by himself in that cold, dark mansion by himself training to be Xavier’s soldier until the other four X-Men showed up. (best evidence of “Scott is a dick”: When Nighcrawler and Wolverine were freaked after their battle with Proteus, Cyclops’ idea of helping them was goading them into a fight. And that was 30 years before AvX). Then he got merged with Apocalypse in the late ’90s, and when he came out of it, he was darker, even more cold and removed, as shown in Morrison, Casey and Austen’s simultaneous X-Men runs. He hasn’t shown remorse (or humor) for anything since being separated from Apocalypse.

So that’s why I’ll accept Wanda’s actions over Cyclops’. She’s a powderkeg. He’s just a moody douchebag. And it’s all in-character for both of them.


Cyclops’ character began to suffer the day he decided to marry a woman who looked just like his dead girlfriend. Then he abandoned his wife who looked like his dead girlfriend to go running back to said girlfriend, who turned out not to be dead.

And then later, he had an affair with another telepath who had provided Mastermind the means to turn his girlfriend crazy, leading to her becoming Dark Phoenix.

So Cyclops has been pretty much broken as a character for quite some time. They tried to fix it by having Madeline sleep with Havok and then turned her into the Goblyn Queen, but I don’t think they were fooling anybody; Cyclops was and is an unrepentant, selfish, immature adulterous ass. None of that makes him remotely interesting, it just makes him pathetic.

However, I do agree that I find Wolverine to not be very interesting at all.

Jeff: Byrne was the only person who ever wrote her as psychologically unstable, and that was because Immortus was messing with her. But more importantly, justifying a story by reference to older stories is a lazy thing for a writer to do, and that’s the problem with Bendis’s handling of Wanda. Not that he decided to have her go mad or evil – no character is sacrosanct and if you can make a character’s downfall believable, go to it. But he wasn’t interested in her as a character, so he structured the story as three chapters of “mystery” followed by telling us that she had been unstable all along, go look it up in the older books. Worse than being a continuity error (which is forgivable) it’s the very essence of telling rather than showing. It’s the kind of thing that marks Bendis as being, ironically, more of a nostalgic fanboy than the nostalgic fans he likes to tweak, since the entire premise is based on his nostalgia for that one Byrne arc, rather than anything he showed us himself.

I don’t understand how Children’s Crusade made things better for Wanda. Wanda sought the help of a major villain, so when it predictably blew up in her face, she still bore responsibly. Her decision was extremely stupid at best, and criminal (reckless disregard) at worst. And now she’s a member of the Avenger’s mutant assimilation team who says stupid stuff about not understanding why there has to be mutants (that’s not something the near destroyer of mutant-kind should be saying, especially since her actions killed a number of them). The writers have just about ruined her as a character, and neither Children’s Crusade or Uncanny Avengers have made it better.

I’m tired of arguing about Scott Summers, but he was no more guilty than any other possessed character and it’s weird that characters are acting otherwise, especially since Scott getting possessed by a broken Phoenix was pretty much all the Avengers’ fault (and in the end, Scott was right about the Phoenix bringing back mutants).

The lesson one can take away from the Wanda situation is that being an Avenger is a get-out-of-jail-free card. Simple as that. Cyclops’s tactical error was not being an Avenger.

Cyclops will never be forgiven because he’s a douche.

Cycke signed up for possession pretty willingly…and was a douche prior that the PF enhanced…and he hasn’t seemed to care…so…

There’s been a weird undercurrent in American culture the last several years of people (politicians, celebrities, athletes, etc.) not taking responsibility for their words and actions, no matter how stupid or embarrassing or ill thought out. The “it’s always someone else’s fault” mentality.

Reading this piece and the various responses made me realize how much of as theme this has become in superhero comics, where our “heroes” can no longer seemingly be responsible for their own actions.

Hal Jordan killed thousands? Nah, parasitic mind control.
JLA member’s wife brutally raped? That’s okay, everybody was mindwiped so it’s okay!
Scarlet Witch went nuts, killed several people, re-wrote reality, de-powered and/or sterilized huge segments of the mutant population, and disappeared for awhile? That was mind control AND mind wiping!

Of course, this could be less a reflection of a discomforting social trend and more a reflection of the fact that Johns, Bendis and Meltzer rely on horrid “shock” moments to make you forget they are three of the most idea-regurgitating writers in comics…

Yeah, I get that there are similarities between Wanda and Cyclops enough to equate them.
But it’s not a perfect comparison.

Wanda ASKED for the power.
She actively SOUGHT it out and made who knows what kind of deal with Doom to GET it.
Cyclops had it THRUST upon him unwillingly. (By an Avenger)
Afterwards, both did crazy things that possessed people do, but that original intention really does make ALL the difference.

Cyke’s plan was to rely on Hope to use the Phoenix to restore the mutant race.
Hope is the only character in that story that could resist being ‘taken’ the Phoenix.
That’s the ENTIRE point of the character.

Now, whether he didn’t have the motivation to let it go (due to the Phoenix’s corruption), or he physically couldn’t let it go; that’s up for debate. We just know that he couldn’t.
We also know that he was begging for death during one of his ‘lucid’ moments, which might suggest the latter.

And how did Cyke come up with the Hope plan in the first place?
Oh, that’s right. His time-traveling soon from the future told him.
If Captain Asshat hadn’t shown up with the Avenger Army looking for a fight, he might’ve learned that.

Look guys, AvX a terrible story for pretty much everybody involved.
Whatever your interpretation, try to not to put too much weight on it.

Jeff is just perpetuating the same falsehood that Bendis came up with about the Wanda always being unstable. It certainly never showed up with Stan Lee’s stories in X-Men and Avengers. That pathetically melodramatic speech of hers in HOM made absolutely no sense. First of all, Wanda calling Magneto “Daddy” is ridiculous. He was never in Pietro or Wanda’s life long enough to establish that kind of childlike image of him. Magneto was revealed to be their father many years later and even that was a retcon disregarding an earlier story that indentified Bob and Madeline Frank as their parents.

Byrne never really finished his WCA story “Darker than Scarlet. I’ve never seen the reason why but it was Roy Thomas that wrote the final couple of issues and in those issues it was revealed that Wanda was being controlled by Immortus. I doubt if Jeff can come up with one story prior to Bendis where it was shown that Wanda was mentally unstable. It was her ability to control her powers that she had difficulties with, much like early Sue Storm. And that was just due to old fashioned chauvinism portraying female characters as needing to be guidance by others in using their powers. Or that they feared their powers.

One thing I don’t get about the end of House of M – how did some mutants retain their powers? I know that the ones near Dr. Strange were protected by his spells, and mutants from alternate dimensions and timelines weren’t affected either (since they existed outside of our time and/or dimension), but how were some mutants able to keep their powers when they were miles away from Dr Strange’s protection? Was this ever explained?

I doubt it was explained as such, but it doesn’t really need to.

As for Wolverine being less interesting than Cyclops… Wolverine isn’t interesting at all, so it is a given.

So Cyclops wasn’t going to take the Phoenix Force for himself…he just wanted to force the Phoenix onto a teenage girl, following his unproven belief that she could use the Phoenix to regenerate the mutant gene (even though a completely predictable consequence of that action would be complicating and endangering the lives of people suddenly and unwittingly gaining mutant powers), but not succumb to it’s corruption. Bask in his glorious benevolence!

Children’s Crusade was a monstrous piece of garbage. The characterization was horrible and the art was full of gaps. One of the most disappointing trades I’ve ever read after the original Young Avengers run was so good.

@ Luis Dantas:

I thought Wolverine and Cyclops were interesting primarily in relation to one another, although the relationship was pretty one dimensional. Neither struck me as being a great solo character, but there are an awful lot of folks who disagree.

Thank you striderblack01.

You should all read his comment before you’ll blame Cyclops, or X-Men for anything.

Let me add that it was Phoenix who brought the first mutant after the decimation – Hope.
And Phoenix was going to return to her in order to reignite the mutants.
Anyone who read / followed X-books know that.

To add insult to injury, AvX was originally supposed to be an X-Men story that would end the plots started in Messiah Complex. And let me remind you that during AvX, the X-Men were largely absent. It was a pure Avengers event.

Avengers just walked over with their boots and ruined everything with their sheer ignorance.
There wasn’t ANY gamble. And Hope was ready her whole life. That was the point.
In the end the X-Men franchise was sacrificed in order to further elevate the Avengers’ status.
In AvX Consequences, Iron Man even admits that he knew that Cyclops was right.
Why he didn’t say it earlier escapes me.

And that’s the bitter truth.

Does anyone else think Wanda’s too powerful? She’s like the Franklin Richards of the Avengers.

What people don’t seem to realise is that The Children’s Crusade is another piece of Wanda’s misdirection.

Doom couldn’t have been involved as at the time in the Fantastic Four he was officially dead and lost in hell and in the House of M he was a pauper (why would he make himself that?)

The fact that she is allowed to be an Avenger again is the biggest indicator that Marvel does not give a crap about the X-books anymore.

P Boz – Wanda’s power has always been far below that Franklin Richards level; in fact, there are all kinds of things she can’t do that other mutants do routinely (like teleport or fly). Part of the point of Children’s Crusade was to find some kind of explanation for why her power level became so uncharacteristically high in Disassembled/House of M (Bendis didn’t bother to explain it, of course).

Ed – It’s true that the Doom story doesn’t fit with his history at the time, but Disassembled/House of M fit even less with Wanda’s history, so both stories would have to be written off as someone else’s misdirection. One of the weird things about this controversy is that people who don’t like Wanda assume that House of M is sacred canon while everything afterward is just an attempt to distract from her guilt – but while Children’s Crusade is a mess, it fits canon a lot better than House of M ever did. At worst it’s one bad story retconning an even worse story.

@Dean Hacker: to each his own, I suppose.

But Wolverine has consistently been bland and pointless, working as a serviceable foil for Cyclops (or originally the Hulk) while at his absolute best. Most of the time he is just a very transparent, completely self-contradictory and utterly _boring_ Marty Stu that pushed me out of the story just by being so artificially raised into a significant player. His characterization is not complex at all, he is just all over the place for no good reason.

Cyclops has had his quote of character derailing, but then again so many darned people wrote the X-Men by now that I suppose even Lockheed has been derailed by now. At one point I was wondering whether a certain character was Iceman, Cyclops or Gambit. But at his best, Cyclops is a natural leader with unusual characteristics and a lot of interesting family issues and pyschological characteristics.

@gurkle: Wanda’s power level is only lesser to Franklin Richards because unfortunately we must consider Onslaught and its consequences as canon, weird a proposition as that is.

House of M was weird, but it pales in comparison to Franklin creating a Counter-Earth of his own without even realizing it, I suppose.

But House of M was an alternative timeline that quite blatantly changed a lot of things, so I don’t see why it really needs to fit established history of anyone.

As several others have said, the instability is all Byrne’s doing. Of course, he claimed marrying the Vision was insane as he was a machine and not a real person (which also violates what we’d seen of Vizh to that point).
Jon, I think Byrne also pulled the idea of Wanda retroactively altering reality out of the blue. When she rusts a steel door in Vision/Scarlet Witch 1, it’s not because the door suddenly had years of added corrosion: It’s specifically stated that all the random iron and oxygen molecules in the area combine simultaneously, in the present. An impressive stunt, but not at all the level of what you and Byrne were talking about.

Forget Wanda. I still can’t believe how Bendis fucked up all the work Roger Stern did with Janet Van Dyne.

The Wasp went from a mature and confident leader to a caricature of her 60’s self. She comes off like a sleazy, self-centered, clueless slut in those first few pages of Disassembled.

God, how I hate Bendis.

I definitely agree with those that think Cyclops is getting a bum wrap for his actions in AvX. Other characters have been similarly possessed and done far worse but been instantly forgiven (Jean killing billions comes to mind) but instead Cyclops gets treated like the mutant Hitler for killing a single guy (with arguably good reason) just so they can prop up Wolverine as the paragon of virtue (hypocrite) in hopes none of the readers will notice how ridiculous it is that he’s on every team in the Marvel Universe and running the school even though he’s about the last mutant that should be doing so especially when there are any number of other X-Men at the school that would be better suited to run it and to lead…but he’s popular so he gets a pass. Personally I’ve never understood that popularity at all and also can’t understand how so many can call Cyclops a douche when that’s all Wolverine has been from day 1…all that and he’s even less interesting (if possible) now that he’s “Saint Wolverine” as others have called him.

As for those who keep pointing out that Jean was willing to kill herself rather than be controlled by the Phoenix, let’s not forget how she killed a few billion asparagus people first and how she later went on to embrace the Phoenix and take the power back even knowing what happened before.

Now let’s look at Cyclops’ history that keeps being brought up as evidence of what a jerk he is. When he left Maddie and the baby, he did not mean it to be permanent. He found out the love of his life that he watched die horribly right in front of him was somehow alive and he went to see her (I think pretty much anyone would under those circumstances). He tried to go back home but couldn’t and the whole thing nearly drove him nuts. For the first 20 or so issues of X-Factor, Cyclops is pretty much in a full on nervous breakdown to the point of hallucinations. As to the later affair with Emma, he never actually touched her until Jean was dead and everyone seems to gloss over the fact that the little make-out session he had with Emma on Jean’s grave was actually instigated by Jean herself with a psychic push from beyond the grave to prevent a terrible future essentially caused by Cyclops being totally broken, giving up, and leaving the X-Men to deal with their own drama.

Nevermind that most of this crap can and should be chalked up to bad writing…but, then again, it seems if it weren’t for bad writing we wouldn’t have anything out of DC or Marvel at all these days…even the good writers get bogged down dealing with crap heaped on them by Bendis and others.


Yes, and have it too!

He still did shit with Janet.

The Phoenix doesn’t possess people as that word is usually understood. It doesn’t overwrite anyone’s consciousness or push them to do things they don’t want to do, it just gives them a lot more power. What they do with that power is a reflection of their personality. Some people can handle it (Rachel Grey) and some people can’t. Cyclops is responsible for his actions as a Phoenix.

Jean, however, is not responsible for her actions as Phoenix, because she was at the bottom of Jamaica Bay. The Phoenix was pretending to be her. That was the condition of her resurrection, that the Phoenix story be retconned to absolve her of responsibility.

I don’t think Wanda should be treated any better than Cyclops, but I don’t think either of them deserve absolution. Although it should be noted that Wanda has at least apologized, acknowledged fault, and tried to make amends, unlike Cyclops.

Wanda not knowing her kids are alive isn’t necessarily a retcon by Bendis. She was repressing the memory, blocking it through willful denial. She was possibly even using her powers against herself. As for Agatha Harkness, she was killed in Englehart’s Vision and Scarlet With mini-series, long ago. After that series, Byrne had Agatha appear in West Coast Avengers alive without explanation. Bendis revealed the explanation: it was Wanda manipulating reality. When Wanda had her meltdown in Disassembled, Agatha reverted to her true state as being deceased.

I must agree with Andrew Collins, what is acutally worrying about this is that it’s becoming something quite frecuent in superhero stories. It’s never the heroes’ fault, it’s all because of the absolutely bad evil-born people who totally deserve to die! This is ridiculous and stupid, there’s nothing wrong with heroes snapping, as long as there’s an actual in-story justification for it. This whole mind-control retcon implies quite a disgusting way of thinking, that implies that people are inherentlly good or bad from their conception.

The problem is, there’s almost never an actual in-story justification for the snapping, or if there is, it’s always something retrograde on the order of (in this case) a woman can’t handle power and her desire to be a mother overcomes her logic. Far better to retcon these things as mind-control/possession than to leave these characters in that state. The thing is not so much that you should never have a superhero turn evil as that it’s very, very hard to come up with a logical reason why a superhero would turn evil. So the retcons usually, as in this case, make more sense than the original stories, even if the retcons are silly.

Brian from Canada

November 15, 2013 at 11:04 am

There are three issues here.

The first is Bendis’ use of Scarlet Witch. The blame goes to Quesada, not Bendis.

Bendis’ previous work at Marvel demonstrated an ability to bring characters back down to their core elements and rebuild the universe around them in a way that honoured the past. In some ways, his lead in issues to “Avengers: Disassembled” was meant to do the same thing, focusing on a new Captain Britain and Wasp’s return to the team. But then it all goes sideways with “Avengers: Disassembled,” a story that somehow gets labelled atop Thor, Captain America, Spider-Man and Iron Man. For the first time, Marvel proper is focusing on events and Joe Q’s column starts talking about summits and plans as a lead up to “House Of M.”

“House Of M” is one of Quesada’s essential goals for Marvel. He wanted to make the Marvel Universe unpredictable, he wanted to lessen the mutants, and he wanted the Spider-Man marriage gone. Once the mutants were reduced down, it was up to the writers to pick up the pieces. A “Civil War” and “Secret Invasion” tie-in is logical but unnecessary because they’ve been sidelined from the main MU.

Problem two is the retcon she wasn’t responsible.

This falls into Quesada’s lap as well. Let us not forget that, when Quesada’s story to remove the Parker marriage from history got berated by fans, he went and made another story to explain the first one.

Rather than let the repairs come organically, the event cycle gets to shove characters left and right. “Siege” returns Norman Osborne to villainy and Steve Rogers to Captain America. “Schism” and “Children’s Crusade” are promoted as happening close to each other as lead ups to “AvX”: the first uses Wolverine’s status as an Avenger to justify his siding with Cap in the upcoming story, the latter brings switches the blame to Doom and thus redeems a character needed to help The Avengers.

Hope WAS the answer. But poor sales of Generation Hope seem to have underscored the point that readers didn’t like that option. Had they just gone with Hope’s return signalling the reversal of “House Of M,” things would have been better. (A healing touch?) Instead, it didn’t work and Marvel pounced on it.

And the third is the external influence.

Cyclops is dead. He died in X-Men 3. And even Brian Singer’s not going to bring him back like he did Jean.

If you’re Marvel, and you’re looking to the future of the brand, then you see Wolverine as popular, see Magneto as a potential solo film, and see Scarlet Witch as a coming character in wave two of Avengers because it’s based on Ultimates. But Cyclops?

Axel Alonso didn’t think Cyclops was interesting until they started this descent. There’s supposed to be a redemption, but the real point of “Schism” is to make Cyclops take over the Magneto role and Wolverine the Xavier role in order for the X-Men to have a villain who isn’t Magneto. It also restores the school which will be coming back in the movies too.

Note how Ultimate Avengers helps put Scarlet Witch back into the spotlight ahead of her appearance in BOTH Days Of Future Past AND Marvel’s Avengers 2.

The fact that none of this plays into Cyclops’ history is besides the point. Marvel sees its success on screens and in ancillary products as justification for such character assassination.

Because the reality of the Marvel U now is that there’s always an excuse. Xavier is welcomed back despite his never standing trial for Onslaught or releasing Vulcan on the Shi’Ar. Captain America never stood trial for the anti-registration force. Scarlet Witch’s actions are just accepted as Doom’s fault. Yet Cyclops, who was faced with the total annihilation of the mutant race and acts accordingly, is a villain throughout — and is expected to be made an example of after handing himself over to the authorities like Cap and Xavier did.

All while Wolverine gets to be the good guy who only kills bad guys. Logan kills. Period. By that same token, then, Frank Castle must be quite a hero because he’s only killed those who deserved it too. :-P

Brian from Canada

November 15, 2013 at 11:07 am


Jean is responsible. Phoenix based itself on her. Excalibur also revealed that Phoenix is a natural force like Galactus, and it’s the wielder who decides what direction its actions should take.

That she was on the bottom of the bay and that solves everything is a red herring solution. In reality, she was only on the bottom of the bay because it was the only way to bring her back after it was decided that she — not Dazzler — should star in X-Factor.

I still stand by the statement that Cyclops is now interesting for the first time ever. And I’m surprised to see so many people complaining about what Wolverine is now, when it seems like a lot of you would be happy about it. For years, everyone was saying (and rightfully so, which I say even as a fan) that he was overexposed and thrown into everything and the “token badass”. How do you deal with a character who has been overexposed for so long? You change him.

Now, instead of being the XXXTREME ’90s anti-hero he was, he’s become mostly a character for others to play off of. He’s a man who spent his entire life as a violent loner, trying to become a teacher and nurturer. That’s incredibly interesting to me.

Also, aside from whether you love or hate what happened to Wanda over the years (I honestly don’t know enough to make a call, that was during my long period of not reading Marvel), I did enjoy the moment in the first issue of “Uncanny Avengers” where she tries to have a chummy conversation with Rogue and Rogue’s reaction is basically “Um, aren’t you pretty much a fucking murderer?” Whether you agree with her assessment or not, chances are there would be lot of people who felt that way.

Seeing those David Finch and Olivier Coipiel pages from Avengers 503 back to back…wow, Coipiel just blows Finch out of the water. Wasp’s facial expression alone is pure gold. What a talent Coipiel is.

Does anyone have the gumption to ever call out Bendis, Johns, or Meltzer on any of them being supposed idea regurgitators in public?

I really hate that thing when writers suddenly turn heroes to villian. To be fair Geoff Johns succesfully retconed Hal Jordan . He retconed the dead lanterns too, Hal just killed Killowog and Sinestro ( both resurrected). But Scarlet Witch not works because she still responsible for so many mutant deaths because of depower. But Marvel easily forgets this things same as Hulk’s WWH actions or Tony Stark and Reed Richards killer robot (still how they not charged for Goliaths dead , it still bothers me it looks like nobody cares Goliath even the heroes not blamed them, god I hate Civil War). Except Cyclops, of course he is MU’s punch bag , writers love screw up Cyclops. The ironic thing is, Cyclops is the only person in phoenix five never made anything bad (Actually whole phoenix five not commited crime until Avengers constantly attacked and provoked them ) . Namor attacked Wakanda , Emma manupulated Namor to attack, Colosous and Magik tortured some heroes but Cyclops made nothing and Bendis got bright idea let him kills his father figure. I hate AVX , it damaged X-men and they still use that stupid story. Captain hypocrite America forget everything Namor,Wanda,Hulk,Tony and Reed did but not Cyclops .

Clutch: “Forget Wanda. I still can’t believe how Bendis fucked up all the work Roger Stern did with Janet Van Dyne.”

Amen. As much as I have enjoyed some of Bendis’ writing, the number he did on Wanda and Jan was excrutiating. Jan, as Clutch described, developed by Stern into a capable and levelheaded leader and Wanda built by Busiek into a confident woman. Both stripped in a few panels(in Disassembled) into parodies of their 60s selves. To a certain extent Bendis, got to redeem himself with Jan in Mighty Avengers and in her ‘resurrection arc last year

That said, ultimately the question is : Did Wanda have the intent to KILL?
While powered up by this external force she stripped thousands of their mutation (killing some in the process). The power fired up a reanimated Jack of Hearts who blasted a dimunitive Ant Man (Scott Lang now resurrected by Wanda). The power caused She Hulk to go beserk and smash the Vision while on a rampage.
But did Wanda want any of these people to be fatally hurt?

I say thee NAY!

Mom, Bendis broke my toys! Don’t let him come over any more!

Jake: It’s not so much “Bendis broke my toys” as “Bendis broke my toys without explaining why, and then claimed that it was the toy-breaking, rather than the lack of motivation, that bothered his detractors.” I can see a scenario where a beloved goody-two-shoes character going mad and losing control of her power could work (though it’s a bit sexist no matter how you spin it), but I don’t think anyone would claim we got to see that story, and since the madness was unmotivated, all the deaths were unmotivated too. Really it was more of an attempt to signal to new readers that the people who put them off reading Avengers were gone and that from now on the book was going to be different; from that point of view, it worked, but not as dramatic writing.

Stern really did an excellent job on both Wasp and Monica Rambeau, showing them developing under pressure into stronger characters.


So are you saying that because Cyclops only has psychic sex with Emma it was all right? That as long as it was not physical it’s all good? That just seems silly to me.

And Cyclops still married a woman who looked exactly like his dead girlfriend. That’s just creepy. And Cyclops never came clean with Jean that he was married until months later, that was unfair. And it’s been a while since I pitched my X-Factor Comics but frankly Scott had plenty of time to return to his wife to explain things. Instead he stayed, formed X-Factor, and went on adventures with the original team, posing as mutant hunters. A tactic, by the way, that was monumentally stupid since he didn’t discuss said tactic with, you know, other mutant teams to explain what they were doing and why.

No, Scott was and is an a selfish, irresponsible ass.

@Kelly Davis

You are completely wrong. Wanda remembered the kids since of the West Coast Avengers. Agatha only withdrew the memoir concerning the children for a few issues.

Couple of things: First, the reason why people won’t accept “I was possessed” as an excuse for Cyclops because Maddie became the Goblyn Queen by being tricked in a dream and nobody accepted that as an excuse for her. You can’t have one standard for the wife and another for the husband.
Second, the problem with claiming that Wanda was behaving irresponsibly in working with Doom was that the entire FANTASTIC FOUR was recently working with Doom and nobody considered them irresponsible.

I think the lesson is, Tom Brevoort is BAD and we should all FEEL BAD.


I’m aware of her remembering. The article above correctly states that she regained the knowledge. I’m saying that after that, she couldn’t live with the memory and blocked it.

Brian from Canada

November 16, 2013 at 4:22 pm


You’re not wrong in Cyclops having time to tell Jean. However, that said, keep in mind a few things that most readers forget: he made peace with Jean’s memory before the wedding; it wasn’t until being defeated by Storm in Uncanny #201 that he accepted he didn’t have a place in the X-Men; Scott wasn’t in Alaska all that long (Maddie is quite pregnant before leaving and Marvel time made it something like a month or three before X-Factor started); and X-Factor really wasn’t all that stable as an organization in those early issues. Plus, you have the added problem of telling your ex-girlfriend you married someone who looks uncannily like them — that’s got to be hard no matter how much you deal with it.

As for the Emma Frost thing, Morrison failed to do his research. Jean and Scott had a bond that would sensed Emma’s intrusion immediately — which means we have to accept Jean thought it was only fantasy, much as Scott had with Psylocke prior to the engagement. When it clearly wasn’t, that’s when Jean stepped forward. And by the end of Morrison’s run, it had all been negated anyway: Jean realizes before her “death” that she loved Logan all along anyway.

To be fair to Scott Summers as a character, the idea of Jean as true love is a false one. All of the men wanted Jean in year one, and Scott really doesn’t pursue her. Even their time as secret agents after Xavier’s death doesn’t play up the romance the way that Claremont does as part of the Phoenix Saga — and even then, Scott dates others while Jean is away.

I was in love with a guy called Scott, we have been dating since 2008, we loved each other very well, i don’t know what happen in August this year everything changed, he started cheating, he left me for another lady, though i pleaded with him, it was all in vain, i was ready to do anything to make sure i get him back, i contacted one fake spell caster unknowingly, he scammed of $1.500, still yet i moved forward, i contacted Dr. Kasabubu, he asked me to fill his temple form, i filled it and send it back to him, he told me that before he can cast the spell he need some items in which he will use, in casting the love spell, i sent him the items money, he bought the items and casted the spell within two days, after the spell has been done he told me that my Ex lover will come back to me within 24 hours, truly the next day, he came to my place and started begging for forgiveness, i forgave, we are happily together now, he proposed to me and we are getting married in January, 2014. i am very happy for his great work on my life, he alone can bring joy into your life, contact him via email kasabubuspellhome@hotmail.com.

The only way Scott Summers gets redeemed is if they pull the trap door on the character and reveal he’s still been possessed by Apocalypse all along.

I’m not as up on my X-books as some of you, but Naomi’s post sure sounds like a ’90’s X-storyline!

@Philip: That would make sense. He was possessed by Poccy after The Twelve storyline, but was separated afterward. Everyone assumed that Cyke and En Sabah Nur were fully separated, but what if a “piece” of him was left behind, like how the pieces of Magneto left in Charles’ mind after he mind wiped him led to Onslaught.

@Brian from Canada: Morrison wasn’t wrong – between Scott’s trauma of being possessed by Apocalypse, and Jean’s stresses with running the school while dealing with Cassandra Nova as well as her underlying lust for Logan, their bond could have been weakened enough for Emma to shield her dalliances with Scott away from Jean’s mind.

Hey guys, despite all of our various opinions about all this, I think we can all agree… Emma Frost is just kind of a horrible C-word, huh?


Cyclops’ psychic sex with Emma (essentially a daydream from his perspective) is, to me, not much worse than all the many times Jean made out with Wolverine openly (sometimes even in front of Cyclops). That said, I’d really like to chalk all the characterization in Morrison’s run up to bad writing because I think he did horrible things to these characters.

As for his marrying a woman that looked just like Jean, I agree it’s creepy…but it’s just another example of how Scott pretty much loses his mind when it comes to Jean. That has been shown over and over again. Typically, he’s one of the most rational of the X-Men and rarely is overcome by emotion but Jean is his blindspot. Look at the current Battle of the Atom crossover…Scott nearly dies because his younger self gets hurt in the present day but, inspite of everything else that’s gone on with him lately, he still fights to let the originals stay largely because Jean doesn’t want to go back. It makes no logical sense but he does it anyway.

Brian from Canada:

I agree that the psychic bond should have let Jean know about the “affair” with Emma all along but you and I must have read very different versions of Morrison’s run if what you took from it was that Jean realized she was actually in love with Wolverine all along instead of Scott because because pretty much everything she said and did, even after her “death,” revolved around her love for Scott right up to her psychic posthumous psychic push at the very end of the run to make him end up with Emma. Of course, as I said above, I think Morrison’s character work was awful and would gladly see it all retconned out.

And I’m going to have to disagree with you on the true love bit too, because, throughout the history of the characters, no matter what happens to them or with other characters, it pretty much always comes back around to the two of them. In the early days, Scott didn’t pursue her because he didn’t think she was interested (as shown in his thoughts in the early stories) and she definitely was interested (as shown in her thoughts). The time you mention when he dated others was actually when he thought Jean was dead and he totally shut down emotionally (the first time he kind of loses it over Jean) and the Phoenix Saga definitely drives home the idea of true love here. I just wish Claremont hadn’t shoehorned in the retcon setting up the love triangle with Wolverine years later in those Classic X-Men back-ups (because, in the original stories, his infatuation was very much one-sided). Scott and Jean are pretty much permanently linked at this point, which is why Morrison had to kill her off again to have Scott be with someone else.

No, we would not all think that about Emma. She’s awesome.

Besides, what does the Scott/Emma affair have to the subject at hand? Cheating on one’s spouse is a moral failing, but it doesn’t make one “evil.” Foibles and frailties only make a character more interesting.

The only thing the Children’s Crusade didn’t answer, or try to retcon, was the sudden memory loss of the Scarlet Witch about her children. For the longest time, she knew they were born and how they died, and her coping with the loss was written into her character development.

Until a writer comes along with a credible retcon, at least in my mind, it was Morgan Le Fey who cast a memory spell on Wanda. Just prior to the events in Dissasembled, the Scarlet Witch defeated Le Fey and prevented her from taking over Otherworld. So as a bit of spiteful revenge, Le Fey cast a memory spell on Wanda, making her forget her most treasured memory. From there the dominos began to fall.

Personally, I think everyone should be kissing Cyclops spandex covered behind for his role in AvX. If anyone else involved would have ended up with the Phoenix Force the world would have burned. Except maybe Hope, and it’s not his fault that Hope didn’t get the Phoenix, it’s Tony Stark’s.

Well, it’s become standard practice at Marvel in the last decade or so that all of the heroes are jerks that spend more time fighting each other than actual bad guys (that’s what almost all the big events are about) so I would say Cyclops comes off better than most these days. The ending of Battle of the Atom was just painful to read with all the X-Men sure they’re about to die and they all take time away from fighting for their lives to hurl snarky and immature insults at each other. I blame Bendis and Millar for making this the norm.

Hey, don’t get me wrong. I LOVE Emma Frost as a character. She’s awesome, and has made the X-titles better since “Generation X”. She’s still pretty selfish, self-centered, and morally questionable. That’s what makes her interesting.

I agree about Emma being a very interesting character and nice addition to the X-Men. As much as I love Jean Grey for the nostalgia, she was pretty much played out as a character and killing her again and basically having Emma assume her role in the “family” is one of the few things from Morrison’s run that I actually liked.

Hmmm…didn’t read this…but it’s odd how much Doom and Wanda have in common. It almost could work as a relationship.

I do find the “X-Men being ignored for the Avengers” thing funny, consider, you know, the 80’s and 90’s.

@Jon- I’m not sure that things like the Cosby Show and Family Ties don’t work today. Things like The Big Bang Theory get much higher ratings than Breaking Bad.

And I must have forgotten/missed that they blamed WWH on Nightmare? I mean, wasn’t the Hulk kinda justified? Did he need an excuse?

@M-Wolverine: I remember when Acts of Vengeance was the biggest event this side of Secret Wars, and Magneto refused to cooperate because of the Red Skull. I would have figured Doom and Magneto would have struck an alliance due to mutual tragedy (Marvel since has tried to make it where Magneto was a gypsy, like Doom, instead of a Jew. These needless retcons have been detailed previously), until Doom inevitably betrayed them all and failed because Doom doesn’t want to win.

Which is why hypnotizing Wanda into marrying him might have gotten to some small vestige of humanity left within him. Doom may be a fiend, but he is a gentleman.

I still think Wanda has to answer for her actions, whether she was ‘under the influence’ or not. People were still killed, lives were still ruined. Being ‘under the influence’ may reduce her sentence but getting away from it scot-free? C’mon.

As for Cyclops, he’s a hypocritical jerk who condemned Wanda but easily forgave himself (Cap’s a hypocrite too BTW). He very well understood the threat of the Phoenix force (I mean c’mon, that’s a force that wiped out billions of lives in a mere moment) and still gambled the world for the possibility of new mutants. If that is the not the most selfish action ever, then I don’t even wanna know what is. My hate for Cyclops stems from this and not so much from the whole ‘killing his own mentor while being possessed’ stuff.

Ok, first of all… Cyclops is a total douche nozzle and always has been. There just isn’t much to like about him… pretty much EVER. But he totally got a bum deal on this one.

Lets take a look at the actions of the Avengers in AvX.

1. The Avengers hear that a cosmic force is on its way to Earth, and that the surviving mutant community thinks that the Phoenix is coming for Hope and will restart the mutant x-gene… some of them holding this view SO STRONGLY that it has become a religious belief. They decide, with all of their OH-SO EXTENSIVE (read: ZERO) experience with the Phoenix that they’ve got to get involved because people who DO have experience with it can’t be trusted for some reason.

2. They send a team out into space to try and kill a cosmic entity. It doesn’t work. They show up on Utopia, which amounts to a sovereign nation, seeking to essentially kidnap a minor who is, in essence, a religious icon. That doesn’t work either. Tony Stark has the BRILLIANT idea of “I know, lets kill this cosmic force with a REALLY big gun!”, completely redefining the whole idea of hubris. This not only doesn’t work but rather than being contained in a single host who is DESTINED to be its host the Phoenix says “Yeah, how about this… there are FIVE of me now!”

3. The remainder of the story amounts to the Avengers hiding while the consequences of THEIR actions play out. In the end, things happen EXACTLY as they would have without the Avengers interfering in the first place and they don’t even need to worry about their own mess because mutants, an endangered species that are already hated, are going to eat up all the blame.

Really stop and think about that for a minute.

1. Captain America violates a sovereign nation, impeding their religious freedom and potentially dooming an entire species to extinction (where, incidentally, they were placed by an Avenger) with an open act of war.
2. Tony Stark creates a WMD and sets off a sequence of events that directly places the entire planet in jeopardy while the Avengers pretty much abandon the Earth to the mess that he created.
3. They blame an endangered species, condemn its nominal leader, and prop up “Saint Logan’s” position as the opposition leader, and take possession of the entire territory of a sovereign nation that has basically been destroyed as a direct consequence of their actions.

The author asks “How is Scarlet Witch a good guy again?” And I would say that, taking in the events of AvX, I think the better question would be “Who ever said the Avengers are the good guys?”

At least with Cyclops he has the defense of saying “The Avengers are responsible for nearly annihilating my whole species and then trying to finish the job by kidnapping our Messiah.” With the Avengers, the only excuse Cap and Stark have for their actions is “Hey, we’re government contractors, what do you expect?!”

The inherent racism we see coming from the Avengers in this whole story arc is just MIND NUMBING, and suggests to me that the authors behind it need to do some serious self examination. In the end, we see that EVERY SINGLE MUTANT who basically “Uncle Toms” themselves to the Avengers can get a pass on ANY act, no matter how horrifying… to the point that it starts to come across as “hey, we can’t be racists, we’ve got black.. er… I mean… MUTANT friends!!!”

Want to know the thing I hate MOST about Cyclops, though?

If he had ANY balls he’d be out there demanding that Cap and Stark be tried for War Crimes, and that the Scarlet Witch be summarily executed for genocide.

Instead, ‘ol One Eye is pretty much coming across as ‘ol One NUT.

All AxX did was made me disgusted with the blatant Wolverine and Avengers favoritism. Cyke may be a douche and a jerk but that is NOT an excuse for him to be getting such a raw deal. He wasn’t perfect but all the Avengers did was make it worse and got off Scott-free…by essentially pinning it all on him.

This B.S. about Scott not taking responsibility has gotten sickening as well: he willing went to jail and was willing to stay UNTIL a fellow mutant was allowed to be lynched. Not to mention he has willing been helping the very people who have given him flack only to get crapped on constantly. They’re practically making it easy for ole Missy manipulate young Scott.

I refuse to discuss Wolverine, further than he’s still my favorite character but this brimming over to hypocritical levels of hatred if Scott has long since gotten annoying.

And don’t even get me started on the double standard B.S. that is Scott having a questionable mental (MENTAL, not psychical) affair with a woman taking advantage of him–why this is so easily forgotten, I’ll never know (if it had been Jean and a male, the term ‘rape’ would have been used long before now) and how Jean was with Logan, short of actually sleeping with him. And Scott knowing, if not seeing it for himself. She is so easily forgiven for her crap, it’s sickening. Admittedly, I am not glad to see her young self back, more so since I find her far more unlikable than the Jean that died.

As for Wanda: I never was a fan, as she felt very overpowered. She has apologized for her actions but never been held accountable for them. However, she was a bit of a pariah for quite a few mutants so she never got off completely. I think her being ‘taken over’ was a B.S. excuse and it would have been far more interesting to see her being repentant with full guilt instead of giving her a get out of jail free card so she can be easily forgiven—something that oddly has been alluding Scott. (I suppose if you’re not an Avenger, a friend of said group, or Wolverine’s obess–love interest, you don’t get one.)

Honestly, the better question is “Are the Avengers actually heroes?” After a lot of the crap they’ve pulled, from AxX, to Civil War, to that time they left Ms. Marvel? in that dimension without actually investigating the situation further (they have a bad habit of that) and some of them (Doucheye) tried being indignant when called out on it? To yeah, as Cyclopes pointed out, NEVER helping mutants as a whole until after this AxX nonsense?

They and Wolverine come off more as designated heroes most of the time…sure that has nothing to do with popularity. Maybe if Cyclops gets more so in the movies, they’ll stop treating him like a cosmic butt monkey.

@Lorrie, TJCoolguy and grinningdemon

Wait, so people are hating Cyke for being a dick, and calling Wolverine (another dick) uninteresting, yet Emma is interesting and awesome for being a bitch? What?

“At this point she is more corrupt than Cyclops (or for that matter Parallax) ever were.”

Umm…one result of Hal/Parallax was the slight rebooting of the DCU in Zero Hour. For all that Wanda eliminated the mutant gene in most of the world’s homo superior, that doesn’t hold a candle to ending and restarting all of reality.

“There’s a big piece of the puzzle missing here, and that’s John Byrne’s role in all of this. It was Byrne, after all, who connected the dots and proposed that Wanda is probably the most powerful being since the Beyonder. Why? Because when you alter the probability of something happening, you are effectively reshaping not only reality, but history.

Think about it. Something as inane as provoking a chandelier to fall on a bad guy and knock him out. Did she throw a laser that knocked the chandelier loose? No. She never actually touched the thing. She simply transformed the probability of the chandelier falling at this precise moment, into an absolute certainty. So her powers are capable of going back in time, adding 1.384% more oxidation around the chandelier in the century it’s been hanging there, so that it would fall right when she wanted it to.

Though the result of the act is kind of lame (big whoop, falling chandelier, right?) what it took to make it happen was Beyonder-level power. Power she had in her all along. How else do you turn probability into certainty? You *have* to retro-actively affect the object’s history. That’s history-altering powers for reality-altering results.

More than just liking Byrne’s theory, I agreed with it. It was the only way to explain her doing the things she can do. The fact that she hasn’t eliminated every bad guy the Avengers ever faced within 2 seconds of facing them (by simply making the probability that they all trip and knock themselves out into a certainty) could be explained by her lack of creativity or understanding of her own abilities.”

I don’t have any link to this, so I’m going on memory, but I seem to recall John Byrne saying that he had a long term plan for Wanda. Something very similar to House of M, only involving Immortus manipulating Wanda’s power to rewrite reality or something. Oh yeah, now I recall-

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