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When We First Met – The Guardians of the Galaxy

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Up next is Groot. The alien being made his debut in the lead story of 1960’s Tales to Astonish #13, with art by Jack Kirby and Dick Ayers and a story by…I dunno…maybe Larry Leiber?

Finally we have Rocket Raccoon.

He made his debut in a sci-fi story by Bill Mantlo and Keith Giffen in 1976’s Marvel Preview #7…

but wasn’t known as Rocket Raccoon (and didn’t have his current personality) until he made his color debut in 1982’s Incredible Hulk #271 by Mantlo and Sal Buscema…

If you have a suggestion for a future edition of When We First Met, feel free to drop me a line at bcronin@comicbookresources.com

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So who was the guy giving Peter his new outfit? He looked so much like Merlin, I’d be surprised if nobody ever did a Captain Britain tie-in.
The Groot story is typical of a lot of those old Marvel monster tales—everyone laughs at the smart guy until he saves the day (Fin Fang Foom is another example). But those must have been some fast growing termites!

I remember shaking my head when I read the end of the Groot story in a Masterworks. The termites work more like a poison or nerve agent than termites.

I’m surprised you did not mention Yondu, since, though he does not appear in the Guardians of the Galaxy comic book, will appear in the movie.

Had Starlord been used at all recently before he popped up in Annihilation and the stories that followed? I know he had a series or something in the 70s/80s. I assume his recent revival somewhat came out of nowhere, but the stories also kind of make it seem like they were referencing other current events that might have appeared somewhere. I’ve never been sure if that’s just the writers installing history to flesh out the character, or if they’re referring to something that happened in another comic I wasn’t aware of.

I don’t know who is to blame for the awful twists at the end of many of the Lee/Kirby monster stories, but man are they often nonsensical. The whole time I was reading those Groot excerpts, I thought “what will the twiist be and how ridiculous.” And sure enough, it was.

It’s interesting that for decades Star-Lord seemingly wasn’t part of the Marvel Universe at all. When he started to cross over with other characters, it came as a bit of a shock.

I don’t think Star-Lord had been seen in quite a while before Annihilation. The stuff referenced there, about him screwing up and destroying a world, happened in a ’90s miniseries, I believe.

Keith Giffen had brought back Star-Lord in his issues of the Thanos series, where Peter Quill was now a prisoner serving time for destroying a world and had become a cynical type. That’s almost certainly why Giffen then used him in Annihilation.

I remember reading somewhere (perhaps on this very site) that Starlin intoduced Drax, Thanos, etc. in Iron Man because he had created these characters and wasn’t sure he’d get another opportunity to introduce them again, so he just chucked them in, hence why Drax is reaching out to Iron Man of all people.

Also, when did we get “I AM GROOT” Groot? Man those Abnett/Lanning/Walker issues were fun

Drax was always a strange case to me; Starling introduced him s Thanos’s archfoe in that Iron Man story, but then shoved him off to the side in pretty much every later story he did.

T. I think it’s a credit to Kirby how many of those old monster-book covers scream Buy Me, Buy Me, I’m Awesome! and I actually feel myself responding. Even though I know from experience they will be anything but awesome.

I’ve never heard of Steve Gan, but wow is his art great.

“Oh, darling, forgive me! I’ve been such a fool! I’ll never complain about you again! Never!!”

That has to be Stan Lee. That might be the most Stan Lee-ish line that ever Stan Leed.

Wow is this guy good. A lot of Filipino artists didn’t get a fair shot. Gan would have been great on a mainstream Marvel superhero book:


I would argue those Star-Lord adventures are still not in continuity. There are too many discrepancies, including the state of technology, his father’s fate, and the general layout of the various planetary societies.

Plus, Bendis modified the origin a bit for the current comic. Gone are the plotlines of his mom remarrying, his uncle (not his father, as stated here) trying to kill him, and the encounter with the Master of the Sun. (Though that last part may have still happened in some regard, since it’s referenced in Annihilation: Star-Lord.)

I treat them as two different characters.

I am having a hard time getting over what a terrible idea a Guardians of the Galaxy movie seems to be. When you are on a roll, (and Marvel Studios certainly has been) I guess you earn the benefit of the doubt. It just kind of blows my mind.

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Dean, why do you consider it to be a bad idea?

I’m with Dean Hacker on this. It boggles my mind. I’ve been reading comics for fifty years and I barely know who these characters are. When Iron Man was made, a lot of the criticism what that he was a third-tier character that nobody knew. Really? His comic has been published continuously for almost fifty years. He had a cartoon in the 60s. He’s been an Avenger for fifty years. He has an iconic look. People knew him.

Now, when people are finally taking the idea of superhero movies seriously, they’re going to do a movie with a talking raccoon? And a tree man and a second giant green rage monster and a Green Lantern knock-off? Really?

Twenty years ago, if you had asked the average joe on the street to name five superheroes, two of them would have been Aquaman and Wonder Woman. Yet we haven’t had an Aquaman or Wonder Woman movie.

I think this is a big mistake.

Travis Stephens

December 5, 2013 at 6:33 pm

Large ensemble team movies where characters have not been introduced flop. These guys are not the X-men or FF where the average guy is aware of their background. These guys aren’t even the Guardians I remember. If Marvel bankin on the MCU brand to carry this movie then it’s a bad idea.

Personal theory why Guardians of the Galaxy was greenlighted: Marvel perhaps sold it to Disney as a chance to do for Disney to get into the megabucks space opera blockbuster franchise a la Star Wars & Star Trek. After all Marvel Cosmic is just as complex as either of those with the Kree/Skrull war, the Celestials, the Jim Starlin cast of characters etc, yet more recently ANNIHILATION and its sequels had made it very accessible with cynical humour and an emphasis on more hard hitting action that abstract concepts, hence why GotG was greenlighted…

…then George Lucas sold Star Wars to Disney and now no one knows what to do with this except hope this clicks with people while JJ Abrams tries figuring out what to do with what Disney really wanted in the first place.

I work in the movie industry and I think it was a genius idea from Marvel’s part to do a Guardians movie. Precisely because people do not know these characters and will be a sci-fi comedy, which is something they haven’t done before.

Marvel Studios is trying to show audiences the wide range of characters they have. And, don’t forget, they do not own the movie rights of some of their main ones (Spider-Man, X-Men, Fantastic Four).

Apparently, after Guardians, will be Ant-Man and Dr. Strange (and maybe further down Black Panther). I think they know exactly what they are doing…and if you guys don’t anything about the Guardians I suggest you pick up the trades of their last series (the current one is awful), written by Abnett & Lang. It’s the reason why they became popular.

The Eye: no, that’s not the reason. They reason is they cannot keep coming with just Avengers-type movies and the last Hulk movie was a bomb. Marvel has many minor characters that could do great in the theaters under the hands of the right director. We cannot have a Captain America and Thor and Iron Man movie every year, a lot of critics are already complaining about “superhero fatigue” and they want to avoid that by using characters people don’t know.

I think I read all of the comics where these characters first appeared. Not much after that.

I remember Gamora and Drax from the Warlock stories. Never heard of Groot. Star Lord I remember because of awesome black and white artwork. (Byrne did a great one.) I remember Rocket Raccoon the way I remember the Elf with a Gun.

The Guardians of the Galaxy I remember were the Astronaut named Astro, the Blue Archer, the Prism Man, and Bucket Head. Then they added that dude who turned into a chick. Some guy named Michael killed them all in an Avengers comic. They got better.

The current Guardians series is awful, but it’s also Bendis, who can do no wrong in Marvel’s eyes, and I have no doubt that the movie will be based entirely on the Bendis version.

@ T.

To me, Guardians of the Galaxy has the Green Lantern problem.

First, space is a difficult setting for a lot of people and that resistance is doubled when you are telling a fantasy story in space. The Star Wars films have made a kajillion dollars, but in the three decades since they were released effectively no one been able to follow in the footsteps of George Lucas. There are the bones of countless failed franchises in the Space Opera sub-genre (including Green Lantern). The general audience likes the sci-fi and they like the fantasy, but they don’t generally like them mixed.

Second, exposition is death for superhero movies. The best regarded ones generally jump right into the action. The big exception is the Donner Superman film that kicked off the whole genre, but otherwise minimal set-up is best. Batman was in the first scene of BATMAN ’89. Tony Stark got blown up minutes into IRON MAN. Wolverine gets into a bar fight before Xavier’s School is set-up in X-Men. That is why those Lee-Kirby and Lee-Ditko characters work so great. Their origins are super-tight. It is hard to see how Guardians of the Galaxy doesn’t spend a ton of time setting things up, like Green Lantern made the mistake of doing.

Third, these are super-obscure characters that are obscure for a reason. This is a great big pack of “Nobody’s Favorites”. There is some stuff in every comic franchise that is absurd, but we (as fans) stick with it because we love the rest of it. Green Lantern’s main antagonist is named Sinestro for God’s Sake, like he is an evil breakfast cereal. A lot of both Englehart and Starlin can read that way to me.

It just adds up to a mistake in my mind, but who knows. We live in a world where Thor can open a movie.

While I didn’t get into the Abnett et al comic I’m looking forward to the movie. Anything that gets Rocket Raccoon into the public consciousness is a good thing IMHO.And it’s directed by the guy who did Super. He knows how to pull off comedy and pathos in the same movie.

I’m betting a lot of people who saw Iron Man had no idea he ever had a cartoon, so while these characters are, yes, lesser lights from a comic fan’s perspective, the general public might well see them and Iron Man, pre-Downey as being close to the same level of familiarity.

Finally, if it doesn’t work, well, I’d rather they aim high and occasionally miss than get their hits by always aiming low.

“Third, these are super-obscure characters”
I agree that that’s going to be the biggest problem. Because it is an ensemble team movie. With the Avengers, even though people with no knowledge of comics still have a passing idea of who most of the characters are, most were established in previous solo movies. They knew who Captain America, Iron Man, Hulk and Thor were and their origins from their previous solo movies (along with introductions to Hawkeye and Black Widow, that at least covered who they were), so we didn’t need to try to cram 6 origin stories in before getting to the action, because it had already been covered. Are they going to try to show the origins of All these characters at the beginning of the movie? Or are they going to expect the audience to go hunt down a bunch of back issues Before they go see this movie? Even though most people (even those not into comics) know the basics and origins of Batman, Superman, Captain America, Hulk, Spiderman……. They still covered all their origins in the movies. Even most comics fans don’t really know these characters (as others said, these aren’t even the Guardians I know), So they need to cover their origins even more than they did the previously mentioned characters. Now can you imagine if they didn’t make the previous solo movies and tried to make The Avengers without the previous movies and tried to cover all their origins at the beginning?

“I’m betting a lot of people who saw Iron Man had no idea he ever had a cartoon”
I’m thinking many, though not all people have heard of Iron Man and knew a little of the story, though maybe not as many as know who Cap was and had a basic knowledge of Super Soldier serum, WWII…….. But they still covered his origin in Iron Man rather than try to cover all the Avengers origins in The Avengers. Trying to cover all the Guardians stories in the one movie??? I think they’d have a better shot with just doing a movie of Star Lord, or even just a movie of Rocket Raccoon. Many non comic fans went to see Batman, Spiderman, etc. because they still new who the characters were, because they are so ingrained in popular culture. Whereas many who actually are comics fans don’t know who these Guardians are. Is the target audience not only just comic fans but the super obscure Guardians comic fans? Because the target audience for all the other superhero movies went beyond even just comic fans. And as I said then going with covering a group as opposed to one character that the (supposed) audience doesn’t know who any of them are…….

Dean –

You said it yourself, man.

The Thor movie “should not” have worked, but it did.

George R. R. Martin was only one of many guys who said something like: “Iron Man worked because it’s a human guy in a supertech suit and everyone can understand that, but who is going to accept a super-viking in a super-city full of other super-vikings? The Thor movie is doomed.”

Actually, even before that, I remember a forum I used to hang in, and people said an Avengers movie would never work, because people wouldn’t accept so many disparate superhero origins together. “That’s too much fantasy for a non-comic book fan.” And people forget now, but a lot of those Marvel characters were not as well-known as Superman and Batman.

What I take from it is that the average person is not so different from any old comic book fan. They’re willing to accept any and all superhero concepts, as long as the movie overwhelms them and tramples all over their disbelief. Why Green Lantern failed, I don’t know, I didn’t watch it. But Thor is more “out there” than GL, and as much “space sci-fi”.

What are you people talking about this being a bad idea for a movie? This is why Disney purchased Marvel. They have source material going back to the 1940’s. If this movie fails, it will not be because no one knows who these characters are. Know one knew who Ellen Ripley was. Know one knew who Alex Murphy was. Know one knew who Sarah and John Connor were. It’s the job of the people making the movie to make these characters people we are interested in. How well they do their job will decide if this movie is a hit or not.

Rell is right.

As far as origins, who says we need them? Many of us started reading comics after the characters we read had their origins told in the 30s, 40s, and 60s. Star Wars was a team movie and we only got one origin, Luke’s.

Personally I am tired of every super hero movie being an origin story or otherwise tied directly to the heroes origin.

Travis Stephens

December 6, 2013 at 6:55 am

I think people are missing the point. You can have humans in space. Hollywood churns those out every year. You can have superhuman movies provided they have been set up. Or you can have fantasy. A lot of the examples fall in these categories but get conflated erroneously. Ripley in Alien was a space/horror movie for example. T2 had the original Terminator with Arnold which had reached cult status. Thor worked because of the tie in with Avengers and enough of a love angle to attract women.

Guardians is going to need some other supporting characters in order to get past the geek demographic. Watch them stick some hot scantily clad girl who needs to be rescued in there.

I can see them getting past the origin issue. Simply present them as a bunch of weird aliens, like the Star Wars cantina and go from there.
Really depressed to hear Bendis is on Guardians now. When I still had a convenient comics shop, I really enjoyed the Abnett/Lanning version.

I think a good comparison might be the Hellboy movie. You have a bunch of extremely weird characters that almost nobody in the public has even heard of, but it works. Partly because the new BPRD agent finds it almost as weird as the audience, which helps.

I don’t think establishing the Guardians’ origins will be a problem because with the exception of Starlord, they don’t NEED origins. They’re a pack of alien adventurers from various worlds, period. Nobody ever needed Chewbacca’s “origin”. I do expect Starlord to get an origin story, showing how Peter Quill ends up in outer space meeting the others; maybe Gamora, Groot and the others will all be prisoners in a space jail of some sort and it will be a sci-fi comedy riff on “The Dirty Dozen” (which is more or less how they got together in the comics). But if they’re aliens, nobody needs an explanation for the walking tree or the talking raccoon – just like nobody needed an explanation for Yoda’s pointy ears. “That’s what folks from his world look like”, now let’s have fun adventures.

@ fraser:

I love Hellboy and think it is one of the best of the current cycle of comic movies. However, it is worth noting that its total gross was $59 million, or about half the Green Lantern film that I was using as a negative comparable above.

To me, it is two-step question. Step One is “how big is the pie?” and Step Two is “how much of the pie is a given movie likely to get?” If you say Hellboy is a comparable for Guardians of the Galaxy, then it suggest the pie is relatively small. Hellboy was an extremely well made and entertaining movie adapted from a highly regarded comic. It probably gobbled a good percentage of the available “pie” (or people willing to watch a movie lots of unfamiliar, weird creatures without an established movie star in the lead role).

Step Two is mostly about how much people like the actual movie. That is the word of mouth that keeps people coming after the Opening Weekend hype dies down. What I am saying is that given the likely size of the pie suggested in Step One, the execution of Step Two needs to be pretty flawless. There isn’t a ton of encouragement to be derived from the comics to suggest it will be. But again, who knows? Marvel is on a genuine roll. They totally broke the “threequels stink” rule with Iron Man 3, so I am not ruling it out.

Valid points Dean, though I’m inclined to agree with Les that if they approach it as some kind of SF adventure rather than super-hero, they can bypass a lot of problems. Enough to make a big hit? No idea.

Third, these are super-obscure characters that are obscure for a reason. This is a great big pack of “Nobody’s Favorites”.

One movie that I think is extremely underrated in creating the modern boom in superhero movies is Blade. And that was an extremely little known character, especially around the time the movie came out. I had been reading comics my whole life when that movie came out, and even when I saw the movie I had no idea he was a comic character.

I don’t think super obscure character automatically means box office failure.

I’m with Dean Hacker on this. It boggles my mind. I’ve been reading comics for fifty years and I barely know who these characters are.

So? When Star Wars came out no one knew who those characters were. When the Matrix came out, no onw knew who those characters were. When Blade came out many people who saw the movie didn’t know who he was, including comics fans like me. No one knew who the Fast and the Furious characters were. People watch movies where they don’t know who the characters are all the time.

When Iron Man was made, a lot of the criticism what that he was a third-tier character that nobody knew. Really? His comic has been published continuously for almost fifty years. He had a cartoon in the 60s. He’s been an Avenger for fifty years. He has an iconic look. People knew him

No, PEOPLE didn’t know him, COMICS FANS knew him. Big difference. Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, they’re iconic. Joe Blow on the street who’s never read a comic book knows them, Iron Man, on the other hand, wasn’t. Only hardcore comic fans really knew of him. Now after the Marvel movies he’s iconic, but he wasn’t back then. And sure enough, the movie was a hit anyway. Because it was well done. Same with Blade. It was well done, and it became a hit.

Active comic fans are such a small part of the general public these days that you can’t count on just them to make a movie a hit, They don’t have the numbers. So whether the average comic fan is supportive of the concept is not as big a deal toward the success of the movie as one may think. What matters is whether or not the movie can attract people who don’t read comics to watch. This is why the success of the property among comic fans is largely irrelevant. That’s why a character like Blade was never popular enough to support a comic series before his movies and was never popular enough to support one after his movies, but he still could headline a profitable movie trilogy.

Meanwhile, Green Lantern was doing great business in the comics, and his movie flopped among the general public.

So with Guardians of the Galaxy, it doesn’t matter if theyve ever been successful in comics or not, or if comics fans know the characters well. What matters is whether the movie is well done and whether it can attract the general public, especially those who don’t read comics.

Oops, I just saw that Rell made many of my same points.

The first appearance of Starlord in the Marvel Universe that I’m aware of (indeed, the first time I recall him appearing outside of the ’80s anthology books) was in the 2000 Inhumans mini done by Ladronn.

I realize you clarified it right away, but my initial thought after reading the headline was “When I first met the Guardians of the Galaxy, none of these characters were part of the team.”

Whatever happened to the original Guardians of the Galaxy, anyway? Did something actually happen to them, or did Marvel just retire them? (Not that they ever permanently retire any character.)

Well, the original Guardians are in the 30th century, so Marvel can pretty much just stop mentioning them and not worry about what it means for the larger continuity. Which is basically what they did after the ’90s series was canned.

It used to be strange to me, how back in the 1980s, NOBODY knew the characters I liked so much. Daredevil, the X-Men, the Legion of Super-Heroes. It made me feel like part of a secret society. Now I feel it even stranger that most people know of the X-Men (and sad that Daredevil is mostly know as “that Batman copy from a bad movie”).

@ Rene:

Yep. I will never get used to being able to just drop a Wolverine reference into any conversation and having everyone get it.

I can’t see this movie doing well. I like what Marvel is doing with the announced miniseries (Iron Fist/Luke Cage/Daredevil/Jessica Jones) and they did a good job with their Avengers movies. However, putting out a Guardians of the Galaxy is stretching their marketability it by putting a move full of C-list characters.

Steve Gan was a great artist – I loved his Savage Sword of Conan work

fraser – a Starlord story in Marvel Spotlight established that the “Master of Earth’s Sun” was a renegade alien scientist who ended up being arrested by his own people.

Peter Quill never had his own series before Annihilation and had made his 9 early appearances in assorted issues of Marvel Preview, Marvel Spotlight, Marvel Premiere and Marvel Super Special with a one-off Starlord special expanding the second story (Claremont & Byrne) with extra pages
The 90s Starlord concerned the adventures of Sinjin Quarrel set 12 years after Peter disappeared.

@ T.

BLADE was a hit, because it cost $45 million to make and grossed $70 million domestically. The expectations (and cost) of the Marvel movies have gone way, way up from those days.

I think that we are looking at similar comparables in different ways. If you say GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY belongs in a group that includes BLADE, HELLBOY and GREEN LANTERN, then I agree with you. That group averages a domestic gross of $80 million If everything break right for Guardians, then that is roughly the upside.

To me, Disney would treat that a disaster after the grosses of the Avengers films.

@buttler: one of those ambiguous “lost in space/time” situations. They’re gone but can always be brought back reasonably easily. The title wasn’t on my pull list by the time it ended, but that’s the general gist I got from their repeated appearances in the DnA GotG series.

@Michael P. Not exactly correct. DnA actually intrinsically linked the original Guardians team to the more recent incarnations when he introduced them, as well as throughout the series. They found Vance Astro in a frozen block in space early in the series (before they had actually named the team) which actually led to a cool little exchange as Warlock mentioned the way Captain America was found in similar fashion when the Avengers were just starting up. Astro mentioning the name of his own former team also led to them naming the current incarnation Guardians (as opposed to Rocket Raccoon’s “Asskickers of the Fantastic”). No idea what Bendis has changed about that… it’s been awhile since I’ve enjoyed his writing and I’m not really interested in what he’s done to the team.

I think the issue with people “not knowing who these characters are” isn’t that movies don’t introduce their characters as they go along and make you interested in them, it’s that these particular characters are going to be marketed as tying in SOMEHOW to the Avengers characters. And from the list of characters, it seems that it will be difficult to do so without get bogged down in exposition.

But who knows?

i remember the look on pips face when Gamora revealed who she was and he almost was the one dropping a brick in his pants too Drax he looked differant then he does now. rocket racoon love how he was trying to save the hulk from a lawn mower

“who Ellen Ripley was. Know (no) one knew who Alex Murphy was. Know (no) one knew who Sarah and John Connor were.”

Yeah, but you learned who they were in the movie. Now imagine, rather than each of those movies, they just had all the characters from them in one movie. Ripley, Murphy/robocop, and sarah and john connor, and the terminator, all in the same movie, without the previous movies to establish them. Now throw in 3 or 4 more characters too. You can either try to cover all their origins in the one movie, or you can just ignore the origins and have the viewers going “Okay, I don’t get it who’s that robot guy, and the other robot guy and the woman running around in her underwear with a flamethrower?” Would you watch a movie with all of them if you didn’t know who they were, or didn’t cover who they were in the movie?

“Simply present them as a bunch of weird aliens, like the Star Wars cantina and go from there.”
Yeah remember when those weird aliens from the cantina went and blew up the death star…… Wait no they didn’t do that. Remember when they fought Darth…… Wait, they umm….. Oh they were background. The movie wasn’t centered around them. We learned who Luke was, and his origin story, the person the movie was about. We didn’t learn who the cantina aliens were and didn’t care, because the movie wasn’t about them.

And a robocop and terminator movie could be good, now that we already know about the characters from their establishing movies.

As I said, even though people pretty much knew who Cap, Iron Man and Thor were, they each got their own origin movie before throwing them all together in The Avengers. For many, especially non comics fans, starting with The Avengers before the Cap, Thor, Iron Man, and Hulk movies would have been confusing.

The first appearance of Groot is incorrect. The Groot from Guardians is not the ruler of Planet X but actually stole his identity and fled from his people as a fugitive. This was revealed in the Rocket Raccoon & Groot back up story in Annihilators. It is a common mistake people make, I guess they simply didn’t read it unfortunately even though it was amazing.

Groot of the Guardians of the Galaxy’s first appearance is then Annihilation: Conquest: Starlord.

I believe that Guardians of the Galaxy is a necessity. In the Marvel Cinematic Universe, the infinity gems are appearing. Thanos has appeared. Eventually, in the next couple movies, more of the gems will reveal themselves. From The Avengers movie on, Marvel is gearing up to a great epic story, The Infinity Gauntlet. Gamora and Drax, therefore, need to be introduced (is Warlock far behind?) Marvel needs a space-faring team to make it seem like the story is not just Earth vs. Thanos. It is the universe vs. Thanos.

Marvel is using Nebula (key to Infinity War) and Ronan the Accuser in the Guardians movie. The Kree will soon follow, I imagine, in either the rumored Captain Marvel/Carol Danvers or Inhumans movies. They need the threadline to be absolutely huge so that Avengers 3 (?) can be the most outrageously grand crossover that cinema has ever seen.

Guardians may not do well at the box office, but I think it is absolutely important in the grand scheme of Marvel’s storytelling.

Also, the fact that DNA consulted on the project means it has to be pretty great.

Smells to me like “Howard the Duck” all over again. I wish the Dr. Strange film was coming out first, so it would have a better chance of seeing the light of day!

Actually, come to think of it I wish they were planning a “Defenders” movie instead of Guardians, they could throw a lot of less well-known heroes (who may have already been glimpsed on screen, like Beast, Surfer, Valkyrie and Hulk) into that mix and still go cosmic if they want. And they would already have established Dr. Strange and his household in the Doc flick..

Well they may not. Have been wrong at the time, I wonder if all those commenters saying it was doomed feel kinda stupid knowing what we know now.

Robert, I dunno about ‘stupid’, but I wonder if Ganky is feeling like some kind of psychic:

“Smells to me like “Howard the Duck” all over again. I wish the Dr. Strange film was coming out first, so it would have a better chance of seeing the light of day! “

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