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CSBG Archive

Comic Book Legends Revealed #461

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COMIC LEGEND: Al Capp invented the Li’l Abner prototype Big Leviticus while working for Ham Fisher.

STATUS: I’m Going with False

Li’l Abner was Al Capp’s famous hillbilly comic strip character, so famous that Abner made the cover of Life magazine when Capp had the character get married…

lilabner

Before starting Li’l Abner, Capp was an assistant for Ham Fisher on the comic strip, Joe Palooka (about a boxer).

In the pages of Joe Palooka, there was a similar hillbilly character named Big Leviticus (here is Big Leviticus from later on in a Joe Palooka comic book)…

leviticus

For decades, Capp claimed to have created Big Leviticus during his time ghosting for Fisher on Joe Palooka during a period when Fisher was on vacation and there was not enough strips, so Capp had to quickly fill-in and he came up with the hillbilly characters. People all pretty much bought Capp’s take on the situation. Hell, I know I certainly believed it.

However, in their recent (excellent) biography on Al Capp, Al Capp: A Life to the Contrary, Denis Kitchen and Michael Schumacher have successfully convinced me otherwise.

As it turns out, the timing of Leviticus’ first appearance doesn’t seem to support Capp’s assertions. Capp’s first Joe Palooka work appeared in October 15 1933. Big Leviticus appeared a week later. The story went on for FIVE weeks. It is clear that Capp DID draw the Big Leviticus strips, but the notion that Fisher, a very fussy and particular man, would have allowed his brand-new assistant to take over the strip entirely a week after starting on the strip and continuing for five weeks right away does not seem likely, and I tend to agree with Kitchen and Schmucher’s conclusion.

Especially, as they note, there was another extended Big Leviticus storyline in February of 1934. Perhaps Fisher DID go on vacation for THAT storyline, but it seems very unlikely that Fisher would hire a guy and then proceed to go on vacation and just let his brand-new hire produce the strip on his own.

However, I can believe the theory that Capp came up with the IDEA for Big Leviticus and pitched it to Fisher and then Fisher went along with the story but I don’t think that Capp created the characters solo.

Thanks to Denis Kitchen and Michael Schumacher for the information!

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95 Comments

I think those swipe panels are out of order.

The pictures for part 3 are in the wrong order, Brian. The Hulk panel should come last, not first.

I don’t know, that Byrne one seems like a real stretch. If that is indeed a panel that Leifeld swiped, he did more repositioning of either character than in any of the other Leifeld swipes that the Internet has found, and lord knows they have found enough no-bones-about-it-swipes.

The pictures for part 3 are in the wrong order, Brian. The Hulk panel should come last, not first.

Thanks, Kurt!

Even though I am a major Marvel fan, I have to admit that a couple or more of those fights shoould not have been won by the marvel characters IMHO.

Terrible Liefield-art!

I saw that ad printed somewhere else, and I’m pretty sure it wasn’t an exclusive of the issue you mention. As soon as I find it I’ll send you proof of that.

It might have appeared in another 2099 issue. It was only the 2099 comics that got it.

I didn’t collect the 2099 books, but I’ve seen that ad elsewhere. Possibly in Wizard or a promotional book.

The Main Man was robbed! (but he probably had it coming)

I remember at the time thinking the only way the Wolverine victory could’ve worked is if we’d seen him coming around the bar holding Lobo’s head by the hair, with Lobo-head spitting curses about how he was gonna squash Logan like a bug for this. I woulda bought something like that.

Wasn’t there a story done later on which “revealed” that Lobo took a dive in the fight against Wolverine?

Yeah I wasn’t getting 2099 books at the time either and I remember seeing the Marvel Won ad.

And while things like Wolverine beating Lobo were obviously not grounded in even comic book reality, it went the other way as well. Aquaman beat Namor by telepathically having a whale belly flop on him.

And the match-ups were a bit absurd and lopsided anyway. Quicksilver and Flash are both fast, but with the Speed Force it’s not even really the same power set. That was just as lopsided as Wolverine and Lobo.

I can almost assure you that this ad ran in an issue of Marvel Vision.

I don’t think that Hulk panel is all that similar really, other than being a shot from behind of a dude getting punched.

Marvel vs DC not DV

I can almost assure you that this ad ran in an issue of Marvel Vision.

It very pointedly did not appear in Marvel Vision. They even did a bit about how they had to pull the back cover of Marvel Vision #6 (which had the ad) late enough in the process that they had to leave in a reference in the magazine about the ad (which obviously then made no sense since the ad wasn’t there anymore).

Merciful Odin that 90′s Thor hurts mine eyes.

Nihilance, in fairness they didn’t (IIRC) imply that the whale would take Namor out, only that it would flatten him for a second or two. Which by the rules of the contest was a win.
I don’t see much reason for believing Capp came up with the hillbilly in Joe Palooka. I’ve read the early L’il Abner strips and they start out as a straight “hick comes to the big city” comedy without the goofy Southern types that populated the strip later, so there’s not that much in common.

Oh my God that’s Thor??!! That’s embarrassing. The 90s, what can you say….

I never bought a single issue of 2099 but definitely remember seeing that ad

I like how pairs Black Canary/Black Widow, and Doctor Doom/Cyborg Superman decided to settle their contests with pose offs rather than violence.

That Thor costume people are hating on is from when Warren Ellis and Mike Deodato were making Thor cool, right?

Good grief, is that scene the most swiped in history or what?

It’s funny to hear Lobo fans complain “Hey, he fought Superman, he should be able to beat up Wolverine, dumb fanboys” when really the fact that he fought Superman made no sense but happened because he was popular with fanboys.

i remember thinking Wolverine should’ve won that fight. i correctly got Elektra, Spider-Man, Storm, Thor, Wolveirne, Silver Surfer, Flash and Superman. I think I picked Aquaman too. But I know I was pissed Jubilee lost to Robin. I thought she should’ve won.

Lobo’s power was that he could adapt to beat anyone right? I figured that is how he was able to fight Superman.

In any case, a guy like Wolverine who relies on cutting people should not have been able to beat Lobo (unless ha just had to pin him for five seconds or so).

I did love Jubilee’s “Robin, you have no powers! What if I hurt you?” protests.

I remember that ad. I got that the outcomes were based on fan votes but Wolverine beating Lobo with the bone claws just made no sense. In fact some of those pairings seemed odd to begin with. Storm vs Wonder Woman didn’t make sense. Still it was heck of a series. And Amalgam was completely unexpected. It’s a shame we’ll never see a Marvel/DC crossover again. JLA/Avengers was a great 80′s style crossover that belongs up there with Secret Wars and Crisis on Infinite Earths. DC vs Marvel was a great 90′s style crossover. But I would love to see a modern take on such a crossover with the current status quo of each company.

http://secretearths.blogspot.com/2006/05/dc-versus-marvel-dcmarvel-where-dc.html

I believe the scan of the “Marvel Won” ad I used on this page came from Fantastic Four #412. (I’m looking at it in the issue right now). I could’ve sworn it popped up one or two other places. Hope that helps. Cheers.

Charles J. Baserap

March 7, 2014 at 12:23 pm

Brian, RE: House Ad for Marvel vs.DC

That ad totally ran in other issues. I’m sitting here right now with a copy of Wolverine #101 that has it in it. I went on Mycomicshop.com to see the month and date FF 2099 #5 came out and then sorted the Marvel comics that came out that same time and on my second issue in my boxes I found it (it didn’t appear in Uncanny X-Men #332).

I’m posting a link to a photo of it I just posted on Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152011895908155&set=a.10150157243443155.291825.652533154&type=1&theater

It also appears in X-Force #54, though not in X-Men #52.

I’m fairly certain that ad also appeared in some of the “Marvel Edge” line of books as well (though the Edge name may have vanished by then.) That would include Daredevil, Hulk, Punisher and the like. They were certainly produced by the same part of the Marvelution house as the 2099 titles.

“Lobo’s power was that he could adapt to beat anyone right? I figured that is how he was able to fight Superman.”

Lobo was created as a parody of Wolverine (among other characters), and part of the parody was giving him completely ridiculous powers like “He can immediately figure out how to beat anybody” and “His body will regenerate from any injury, and a single blood cell can regenerate into a clone of him.” Which is fine, those are funny things. But then he became so popular that his parody powers became canon and were used in non-parody comic books, which is kind of like if Damage Control stepped in and claimed the Infinity Gauntlet as payment owed from Thanos in order to end a crossover. It’s silly.

On top of which, yes, the rule was that a combatant had to be pinned or otherwise incapacitated, not killed.

Jake Earlewine

March 7, 2014 at 12:28 pm

Oh my God, shield my eyes from that 90′s “art” before I have to stab my eyes out with a fork!

I never really understood why people think it’s soooo far-fetched for Wolverine to beat Lobo in a fight. They both have healing factors, Lobo’s strength is written incredibly inconsistently (if you look at the history of the character), and Wolverine’s faster and a better Hand-to-Hand combatant. People say things like “Lobo stood toe to toe with Superman”. Well Wolverine stood toe to toe with the Incredible Hulk on multiple occasions, and the Hulk stood toe to toe with Superman. Lobo’s essentially like a super-strong Sabretooth. You mean to tell me that Wolverine couldn’t beat a super strong Sabretooth? I’ve seen Wolverine fight Namor, Thor, the Thing, The Incredible Hulk, Colossus and other people on that power level. He’s essentially the anti-brick. It’s really not that far-fetched. Not saying that it would be easy mind you…but people saying that there’s no conceivable way that Wolverine could win is ridiculous.

DC vs Marvel – Storm beat Wonder Woman. It was embarrassing. Stay classy with you ‘we won’ ad Marvel.

Yeah I have distinct memories of the “Marvel Won” ad, and I never <> read any of the 2099 books.

It’s funny to hear Lobo fans complain “Hey, he fought Superman, he should be able to beat up Wolverine, dumb fanboys” when really the fact that he fought Superman made no sense but happened because he was popular with fanboys.

Remember when it mattered what Lobo fans thought?

Me neither.

The Amalgam books were wildly variable in quality, but there was some great stuff in there.

I am 100% positive that I had a plastic bag with that ad printed on it! I hope I still have it somewhere. It’s a piece of history, man! (Yeah, right! :-) )

Heh, there was an article about Marvel vs. DC in Wizard Magazine where they asked some comic professionals who they thought should win, and I love Mark Waid’s blunt response: “Wolverine. Because I just hate Lobo.”

I also don’t think Storm beating WW is as far-fetched as some people think. Wonder Woman is sometimes defended as a “Superman” level character, but that is very inconsistent. Superman doesn’t need bracelets to stop bullets. If she can be hurt by a bullet, why not some lightning bolts? Or a hurricane? In any case, I’m not too big a fan of a Wonder Woman that is some immortal warrior that can beat anybody. I liked the George Perez version that was formidable, but not a goddess.

Jeff Nettleton

March 7, 2014 at 2:06 pm

Thanks heavens for Amalgam! I was bored stiff by the DC vs Marvel (Marvel vs DC, King Kong vs Godzilla, Kramer vs Kramer, whatever…). Amalgam was a nice surprise in its brilliance (for the most part; there were a couple of clinkers). I just wish they had gone that route from the get go and gave us more Amalgam stuff for the other weeks. It’s too bad those two companies can’t seem to act like mature adults anymore and cooperate on some new material.

capt usa (jim)

March 7, 2014 at 2:17 pm

Wolverine vs Lobo wasn’t nearly as unbelievable as Storm beating Wonder Woman. There is too much love for Storm in Marvel comics.. they have had her hold her own against Thor(in the weather control department), which is just a joke. She’s a normal human with the ability to manipulate weather. Big deal. Even against 200 mph winds, Wonder Woman wouldn’t be phased.

Jubilee vs Robin was a nice fight. The result was predictable(sorry but Jubilee doesn’t stand a chance against Tim Drake Robin.)but it was a fun story.

Agree with everyone talking about Lobo’s inconsistency. His strength level has been erratic, as his popularity exploded, he got stronger and tougher (same could be said about Wolverine and Sabretooth also) but his went to unheralded heights. (I don’t think it’s accurate to say he was designed as a parody of Wolverine. I have his first appearance in Omega man and there is hardly any similarities to them…his later popularity was a parody of Wolverine, but he wasn’t originally a Wolverine parody)

Poor Daredevil, all by himself in that double-page splash with no visible DC counterpart. Did someone forget to draw Nightwing?

Poor Daredevil, all by himself in that double-page splash with no visible DC counterpart. Did someone forget to draw Nightwing?

He’s blind. They told him Nightwing was there.

“(I don’t think it’s accurate to say he was designed as a parody of Wolverine. I have his first appearance in Omega man and there is hardly any similarities to them…his later popularity was a parody of Wolverine, but he wasn’t originally a Wolverine parody)”

I knew Lobo first appeared in Omega Men, but never read the issue, so I wondered about that when I read Sean’s post above.

“Big deal. Even against 200 mph winds, Wonder Woman wouldn’t be phased. ”

And yet, she can be phased by a bullet…

Also, it’s not like it’s any proof that Storm would win every time. Now, THAT would be silly. In her own comic, Wonder Woman is sometimes beaten by the likes of Silver Swan (though she always manages to turn the tables later). Storm is more powerful, experienced, and versatile than Silver Swan. It’s not a big stretch that she can beat Wonder Woman ONCE.

Jeff Nettleton

March 7, 2014 at 3:34 pm

There was some belief, in the early 90s, that Lobo grew out of the character Lunatik, from his appearances in Defenders (it was somewhere just after Defenders #50). The Lobo in Omega Men certainly had more of a physical resemblance. Then Lobo grew into a parody of Punisher and Wolverine and the snake started eating the tale as Lunatik became a Lobo parody.

@Dean I think that’s Doc Sampson, not Thor

Lobo, powerwise, is superior to Wolverine but isn’t as skilled as Logan. Yes, he’s an intergalactic bounty hunter but by that time, he was not showing any finesse or skill. Just brutal street fighting. Wolverine in berserker mode would lose to Lobo because it would be a power showdown. But it is conceivable that a composed Wolverine CAN beat Lobo and Pin him down. That was all they needed to do in that fight. He wouldn’t win EVERYTIME but in the first fight ever, he would. (Lobo would characteristically be the overconfident one. The self styled Main Man probably thinks this runt is no match until after he’s pinned to the ground.)

Anyway, I remember those days when the most popular DC guys at the time were Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman… LOBO and SUPERBOY. And from Marvel, Spider-Man, Hulk, Captain America,Wolverine and…STORM.

These days, Green Lantern, Flash, maybe Green Arrow, Thor, Deadpool and Iron-Man would easily take those spots away. Heck, Iron-Man and Green Arrow didn’t even get to fight anyone! Not even in the non-voting department. (Ollie Queen was dead at the time though)

Amalgam was what the whole series should have been – fun. No posturing and ‘losers’.

All these people hating on the 90′s-riffic Thor costume, yet no hate for Hawkeye’s costume?

RE: Marvel vs. DC
Marvel’s actions are unsurprising and typically disgusting for a “reputable” corporation. This is the type of nonsense Marvel does to promote themselves. Knowing that they broke this contractual obligation just makes them petty and puts another nail in the coffin of my believing anything they pronounce. as true.

The John Byrne run on Incredible Hulk remains one of the great might have beens of the 80s. Byrne was just getting started on it when DC poached him to relaunch Superman, which was an offer he apparently couldn’t refuse. So his Hulk run only lasted six issues or so, but those six issues were laying the groundwork for something that probably would’ve been pretty memorable.

That “We Won” ad seems really odd. The ad doesn’t really promote anything beyond just Marvel comics, so it isn’t like it will sell more comics. It just seems like bragging for the sake of it.

RE: Marvel vs. DC
Marvel’s actions are unsurprising and typically disgusting for a “reputable” corporation. This is the type of nonsense Marvel does to promote themselves. Knowing that they broke this contractual obligation just makes them petty and puts another nail in the coffin of my believing anything they pronounce as true.

Marvel has different owners and different editorial since then. I don’t really see how the Marvel of back then reflects on how reputable Marvel is now.

Eric,

Well, that’s Marvel for you.

@HoosierX That’s so wrong but you made me laugh my coke out of my mouth

Somebody should do a Dinosaur-Comics-esque thing with those Byrne / Liefeld pics and have different stories with different characters all told with that same panel composition.

“My wife left me last night.” “SKPOW!”

capt usa (jim)

March 7, 2014 at 6:38 pm

I don’t think it’s accurate to say Storm was one of the five most popular, just that she was the most popular female character. Same with Wonder Women, she was less popular at the time (at least by book sales) than both the Flash and Green Lantern. Punisher, Iron Man were both probably more popular than Storm at the time. Heck depending on exactly when it was, Venom might have been more popular.

Marvel has tried to push Storm down everyone’s throat as their female icon, but she’s just somewhat uninteresting. I think the fact that her power set doesn’t involve any actual fighting makes her less interesting.
Look at all the other popular characters, and how they are portrayed and you see actual characters getting their fists dirty in a fight. It’s probably why Cyclops as the leader of the X-men never got the popularity he deserved, in the past, either. We are a superficial lot, we want the visceral thrill of watching someone getting punched in the jaw.
I would argue that is why Wolverine took over as the most popular X-men from almost the get go, outside of Beast, none of the previous X-men got involved in the fight, and Beast was never one to enjoy pounding on someone.

The Snappy Sneezer

March 7, 2014 at 6:43 pm

I did not collect 2099 comics and I saw that ad. It appears in other books, not sure which ones but I know I have one here somewhere.

Clearly Lobo and Wolverine were copulating, not fighting.

I don’t think that it’s that much of a stretch that Storm could beat Wonder Woman. She’s given people with a high degree of invulnerability a hard time before.

That’s so wrong but you made me laugh my coke out of my mouth

Well, I wasn’t specifically trying to make you ruin your computer. That’s just a bonus.

There’s a major difference between Liefeld and Byrne:

Byrne has talent.

you know who was going to win by their popularity. it was all to obvious already. we all know that, though.

hulk 319. one world: AWESOME!!!

Stunned that the fights of a series from nearly 16 years ago are still generating this kind of debate; if we’re being honest, most of that series (save Amalgam) was a whole lot of contrived junk. Fun junk at times, but junk nonetheless (half the battles never made sense, whether it be Flash not destroying Quicksilver in less time than it takes to type this or Aquaman dropping a whale on Namor).

Though I’m surprised that neither company has used Access more as a plot device.

@Smokescreen From what I remember, Access is technically owned by both companies; if either of them wanted to use him, they’d have to get permission from the other. Unless it’s for a huge money making crossover with the other company (something that story-wise Access could only be used for), that’s a lot of unnecessary red tape for some editor to get approval for their monthly book.

Aren’t copyrights and trademarks expired after some years without use of the character? I would assume that Access’ have expired already, from both companies even.

“Aren’t copyrights and trademarks expired after some years without use of the character?”

Trademarks yes, but copyrights last for several decades (and when copyrights on the earliest appearances of a character do eventually expire, continued use of the character doesn’t affect them).

For any of these fights, it’s not really about who won… anybody can win a fight given the right circumstances. Batman ONLY beat Cap after hours of fighting and the sewer system just happened to dump out and catch Cap more than it did Batman, who capitalized with a good Batarang shot. I like both characters, but to me it was a good fight. It showed that the fight was more than a quick skirmish as well.

To me, Storm CAN beat Wonder Woman. Every time? No. But given the right scenario, and I don’t think she has to cheat, she could win in a more than 2 page fight. Hurricane Winds, Fog, Lightning, there’s more than enough she can work with to beat Wonder Woman’s raw force. I’m not even sure why Storm would let most opponents get near her.

It’s all about how the matches were won, and many of them, since the space was limited, were rushed and the lack of developing a real battle hurt the fights.

The only one I’d say NO WAY to is Aquaman vs. Namor. It’s pretty much the only fight I would say Aquaman just should not have the ability to win.I get being caught off guard, but it should;t have taken Namor no time at all to throw a whale off of him. He is that super strong. And pretty invulnerable. The man has taken down a giant squid that was also turned into a vampire in less than a page. Lol.

Timothy Markin

March 8, 2014 at 8:06 am

God, I absolutely cringe at the sight of those 1990s pages. This is the kind of stuff that is embarrassing to show any non-comic book person the reason you love comics. Not to offend anyone who enjoyed that series, or any other 90s “Image-style” mainstream comic, but that stuff is why I nearly stopped collecting comics twenty years ago. As a diehard comic book fan since the early 70s, it was fortunate there were a lot of quality independent titles being published at the same time. And it’s fortunate that there is once again diversity in mainstream comics where not everything looks ridiculous and amateurish.

have to agree with the other posters. I’ve never bought a 2099 book but I’ve seen that Marvel Wins ad in several other comics.

Charles J. Baserap

March 8, 2014 at 3:49 pm

JP: I think between me, you, and several others, we’ve officially debunked that legend, but Brian being the class act he is I’m sure will be cool about it. He’s always good with stuff like that, it’s one of the reasons I like his stuff on this site as opposed to other columnists. Dude’s awesome.

If Liefeld had done the Juggernaut/Sirene drawing as a swipe from the Hulk/Doc Samson drawing, I wouldn’t have a problem with it? But reallly his stuff is exactly the same of the She-Hulk drawing. Wich is pathetic.

“Lobo fans complain ……. fanboys”
Sorry I am a true Wolverine fan and at the time I was even a fanboy and even at the time I knew how ridiculous it was for Wolverine to beat Lobo. He may not have been able to kill Wolverine, and it would have been a long fight, but Wolverine would not have been able to beat Lobo. Of course that’s before some writers changed Wolverine to where he could survive a nuclear blast, even though it had been previously demonstrated that he could be killed by a Sentinals blast.

“Lobo fans complain ……. fanboys”
Sorry I am a true Wolverine fan and at the time I was even a fanboy and even at the time I knew how ridiculous it was for Wolverine to beat Lobo. He may not have been able to kill Wolverine, and it would have been a long fight, but Wolverine would not have been able to beat Lobo. Of course that’s before some writers changed Wolverine to where he could survive a nuclear blast, even though it had been previously demonstrated that he could be killed by a Sentinals blast.

And I also know I had seen that ad. I did read some of the 2099, but not the FF 2099. So not sure where I saw it.

“Lobo fans complain ……. fanboys”
Sorry I am a true Wolverine fan and at the time I was even a fanboy and even at the time I knew how ridiculous it was for Wolverine to beat Lobo. He may not have been able to kill Wolverine, and it would have been a long fight, but Wolverine would not have been able to beat Lobo. Of course that’s before some writers changed Wolverine to where he could survive a nuclear blast, even though it had been previously demonstrated that he could be killed by a Sentinals blast.

Heck the Hellfire Guards took Wolverine down. Though not out. So yes they outnumbered him, but aren’t that powerful (big scene wise), I can’t imagine them posing any detriment to Lobo. Marikos father (a highly skilled normal) held his own against Wolverine for a while (with a wooden sword). Spidey beat the tar out of Wolverine when he got mad enough and bashed his head into a grave stone. The Reavers crucified him. Again fairly powerful villains, but ones that I don’t see Lobo needing to put too much effort in taking them all out.

And I also know I had seen that ad. I did read some of the 2099, but not the FF 2099. So not sure where I saw it.

Sorry about the triple posts. I kept getting error messages, and when I refreshed the page, the comments were not there….
Go ahead and delete the first 2 posts.

No fan of Liefeld, but that’s not much of a “swipe.”

The Juggernaut panel is definitely similar to the Byrne Hulk panel, but that’s inspiration, not swiping. The overall layout (crop points, distance to viewer, direction of punch, uplift of recipient) are generally the same. But the drawing itself is quite different. Liefeld didn’t copy the bodies themselves (which would make his art better), just the general positioning. There’s just too much difference in the drawing of the bodies to be a swipe.

And it’s not like Byrne’s Hulk panel layout is exactly original. It’s not iconic like the cover of FF#1 (which is swiped to death–by Byrne himself).

I enjoy the swipe files, but sometimes its definition of swipe is too broad. This blog entry is really only notable for Byrne’s belief he was swiped, not so much that it genuinely was a swipe. Certainly not close enough to make a fuss over.

Marvel vs. DC =

Marvel’s only bragging rights are its popularity among fanboys who participate in this sort of voting contest. I think Marvel should actually be EMBARRASSED because too often writers had to write stupid scenes for Marvel to win. Every sensible fan knows DC’s big guns are vastly more powerful than Marvel’s (which often leads to DC’s lesser popularity b/c too much power makes a character less credible). Wolvie beats Lobo? That’s just stupid.

Catching up–when did they show Storm being able to trump Thor? I know when they first met, she specifically observed that being able to order the weather what to do made him tougher than she was.
Smokescreen, if you’re stunned you don’t visit this blog very often.

Blegh. Did not like the Marvel vs. DC series. Big hype, no payoff. Unless you count the Amalgam stuff, which had a number of really fun books. Amazon & Bullets & Bracelets were both books I would have kept reading.

@Fraser: in the 1990s, the decade of excess, I assume.

I don’t remember that first meeting. Would it be during Secret Wars, or some previous time?

Hmm, now I’m wondering if they actually met or she simply made the observation that God outranks Mutant. I’m honestly not sure.
One thing that struck me on rereading Amalgam a couple of years ago is that they’re very random in the rules for character fusion. Joker and Sabertooth become Hyena, for instance, but Wolverine and Bruce Wayne remain separate individuals, albeit with different timelines. Thor becomes “Thorion” but Darkseid merges with Thanos rather than, say, Loki. Niles Cable’s X-Force is obviously modeled on the Doom Patrol but none of its villains are.
Not a criticism really because the results worked for the most part, but did they have a system or just ask “Okay, who’s got an idea for Flash?”

Logan -

Those are mostly examples of Wolverine as written by Chris Claremont. THAT version of Wolverine is somewhat limited power-wise. Marvel vs. DC was 5 years after Claremont left. I don’t know how much Wolverine’s power had climbed by that time. Wolverine as written today can beat anyone short of Galactus (and Batman).

Dan –

I see your point, but then they shouldn’t even have those fights in the first place. They shouldn’t bother with voting, just have the DC characters massacre the Marvel heroes in a few panels and get it done. Or, better yet, do not have the characters fighting each other. Or make some excuse like the interdimensional travel powers down the DC heroes and/or power ups the Marvel heroes.

I don’t know. Fans complaining about the results of superhero fights in such an obviously festive event always seemed the height of nerdish obliviousness to me.

Re: T.’s comment-”Marvel has different owners and different editorial since then. I don’t really see how the Marvel of back then reflects on how reputable Marvel is now.”

Dear T.:
The more things change, the more they remain the same. Marvel personnel continue a history of snide remarks and bloviating. The latest being that, upon receiving the Star Wars license, they stated that now the real Star Wars stories can be told at its true home. In my rview that was a slight against Dark Horse’s 20+ years of great work. Marvel can never say at the start that another competitor did a good thing. They eventually say someting nice, but never at the start, if ever.

Agree, Bat H. It’s an institutional thing – they cannot help but bag the competition. They’ve even joked about it, how it’s all in good fun. Which is the kind of thing a bully says to justify their behaviour.

It’s a pity because they make great comics. But every time a Marvel exec snidely slams another company it makes me not want to buy Marvel.

ParanoidObsessive

March 10, 2014 at 5:22 am

Wasn’t there a story done later on which “revealed” that Lobo took a dive in the fight against Wolverine?

Yeah, definitely could have sworn I remember something like this happening as well.

which is kind of like if Damage Control stepped in and claimed the Infinity Gauntlet as payment owed from Thanos in order to end a crossover.

If it was written in the same tone/style as the original mini-series, I would read the hell out of that.

Funny, thinking back I was sure DC won more rounds that Marvel, but a quick check of the trade confirmed marvel won, I wonder why I had that Idea?, I was a Marvel kid growing up so I’m sure Id’ have remembered it the correct way, ah well it was mostly bollocks anyway, Amalgam was the only good thing to come from the crossover other than the Joker’s snide remark about Spider-man changing his tailor since they last met…wait does that mean Spider-man/Batman: Dangerous minds is cannon?!?

*THAN Marvel.

NoMoreWhiningFanboys

March 10, 2014 at 11:10 am

I think the bigger story here is that so many thin-skinned people are butthurt and still whining over a silly ad done in jest nearly TWO DECADES ago. It was done in jest, something rivals do all the time. The Boston Red Sox and their papers and fans constantly take little shots at my Yankees, and vice versa, that’s what a fun rivalry is. Marvel poked a bit of fun, then THANKED the competition, and it was clearly meant to be in jest, but people are acting like they slammed them and beat their mothers with a sackful of three legged puppies. I mean, seriously, grab a dollar and hit the vending machine for a nice cool bottle of Get Over it already.

capt usa (jim)

March 10, 2014 at 7:53 pm

In regards to when Storm trumped Thor…I never said that, I said held her own. In the Avengers vs X-men mini series (the original one, where Magneto was hanging out with the X-men and the Avengers were trying to arrest him) there was a comment made about her holding her own. (I don’t remember if it was an actual fight, or if it was something Storm was thinking though)

All these people hating on the 90?s-riffic Thor costume, yet no hate for Hawkeye’s costume?

Are you kidding? Hawkeye’s costume doesn’t have a bare midriff, for pity’s sake.

Marvel has tried to push Storm down everyone’s throat as their female icon, but she’s just somewhat uninteresting.

Indeed. She’s effectively Marvel’s Wonder Woman. No wonder they pitted her against Wondie.

Jonathon Riddle

April 7, 2014 at 10:40 pm

Another artist who mercilessly swiped art from John Byrne’s run on Hulk: Todd McFarlane. Not only did McFarlane swipe a bunch of Byrne’s Hulk drawings, but did it during his (McFarlane’s) stint on Incredible Hulk!

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