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DC/Marvel Tourney, Marvel Heavy Hitters Region, Final Round

The final round of region voting continues now!

Simply choose which characters you think would win in a (non “to the death”) fight in the following match-up. The voting concludes 48 hours from right now!

Each competitor has, let’s say, a half hour to prepare (so it’s not like Thor just walking up to Doctor Strange and punching him in the face – Strange would be prepared), and can use whatever weaponry you figure would be typical for that character (so Thor can use whatever weapons you would expect him to normally use, but he can’t go get, I dunno, the Infinity Gauntlet, or whatever). Also, a quick word on prep-time. When I say “prepare,” I really mean planning. They can’t, like, do anything to the place where they fight or anything like that. They can just quickly prepare for their opponent.

Enjoy!


35 Comments

We need Thor to win this side of the bracket, as he is the only one to ever dethrone Batman.

I dunno about “needing Thor,” but I do think with only half an hour, Strange can’t take Thor apart. He’s not that good against gods in general, who seem to have a sort of built-in magical power that Strange needs more time and thought to work around.

Bernard the Poet

March 30, 2014 at 6:08 am

With 30 minutes to prepare, Dr Strange really should be able to find a spell that can overcome Thor.

Dr. Strange could win against Thor with just a half-hour to prep. He just needs to:
1. Separate Thor from the hammer. Doc’s tricky enough to accomplish this. Getting Thor to throw the hammer at something and then teleporting it away would work.
2. Cast Thor into some hellish interdimensional landscape where the environment itself will work him over until he drops. Without the hammer to escape, Thor would be stuck until he couldn’t take it anymore, and went down.

Thor for the Win.

Strange would no doubt use the half hour to find a selection of spells to contend with Thor’s various powers. Being sorcerer supreme, he could find spells to separate Thor from his weapon, counter his control over the weather, or even negate his overwhelming physical might.

I still give the advantage to Thor for the fact that he is more than familiar with fighting magical opponents. Many of his most long term adversaries (Old Loki, Malekith, Karnilla, Amora)) are all formidable spell casters. Defeating a sorcerer, even one as potent as Doctor Strange, is something Thor has done time and time again for centuries.

With time to prepare, I think Doc can whip up a teleportation portal to send a thrown Mjolnir to some far off dimension. Without the hammer, Thor is limited to strength (can he call down thunder and lightning without the hammer?). A very tough bracket again, but I think being able to attack on the astral plane, where Thor has never been exceptionally strong, will give the advantage to Stephen.

I make my selections and post my reasoning before reading the other comments. I see Mysstic 101, another great mind (!) has reached a similar conclusion. Separate Thor from the hammer, and then send hi to another dimension, presumably one filled with Mindless Ones.

I get how people are speculating about things they’ve seen Strange do elsewhere, but Strange has a long history of having real trouble with gods going all the way back to his first meeting with Thor and Loki in Strange Tales #123; even in the “cosmic Strange” era of the 1970s, he went from shrugging off Death via spiritual epiphany to being killed by Dracula — and not the magically-amplified Dracula he took on later when he temporarily destroyed all of Earth’s vampires.

Strange has a, well, strange amount of trouble with beings of supernatural legend and mythology. And that’s Thor all over. Then there’s Thor’s habit of pulling out random, half-forgotten powers and paraphernalia at the drop of a winged hat, like his “Godblast,” his chariot, and his belt of strength and armor.

This one is a tough one, to be sure.

I’m seeing a lot of people making a lot of arguments about separating Thor from his hammer, and while this would certainly help in a fight against Thor, there are a few things to keep in mind.

A) Separating Thor from his hammer is no longer the instant win that it used to be since he no longer reverts to the form of Donald Blake.
B) Yes, Thor can still control the weather without Mjolnir, albeit with less refined control. In Aaron’s current run, a young, unworthy Thor was still able to summon lighting and even make it rain fire without having once wielded Mjolnir.
C) Even without any weapon at all, Thor is strong enough to punch the top off a mountain with his bare hands.
D) It’s been established that Thor can summon his hammer to him over any distance, even across dimensional barriers. In Fraction’s run, Thor was able to call the hammer to him from Earth to the afterlife. With this in mind, it isn’t particularly feasible for Doc Strange to strand Thor in another dimension, robbing him of one of his best tricks.

That being said, the Sorcerer Supreme is still a crafty and terrifying opponent, and the 30 minute prep time probably helps him a lot more than it would the Odinson. Strange can kick up some nasty tricks and devastating power when he needs to.

When both of these characters bring their full might to bear, they can shatter planets. The difference, though, is that Thor can survive planet shattering attacks. Thor can emerge unscathed from a stroll through the heart of the sun, whilst Strange, even with magical augmentation, would not be able to stand up to more than a few blows from the Thunder God.

Mighty Thor takes the victory.

I’ve been considering Dr. Strange’s main edge in these fights the old “transport his foe to another dimension” maneuver.

But since Thor is also able to travel between dimensions, it just feel like Thor would keep coming back relentlessly and blow the doc off the map.

That’s how I’m voting, anyway!

Thor can only travel between dimensions with the hammer. Without it, he’s stuck.

Even if Thor can summon it to him from across the dimensions, Strange can keep re-transporting it somewhere else when it arrives. Rinse and repeat, summoning and foiling the summoning, all while the dangers of some hell dimension are working Thor over. Thor eventually drops.

Doc has a shot…..30 minutes of prep is a lot of time for him to get ready, devise spells, etc. Of course, if this is going to work, it will have to be a quick takedown…..On the other hand, Thor has an awesome amount of raw power on his side, plus a lot of experience with magical foes (Loki, Karnilla, the Enchantress, Mephisto, etc)…..I’m giving the win to Thor.

Willie Everstop

March 30, 2014 at 11:41 am

“Oh merciful Vishanti, I beseech youAARGH!! LIGHTNING HURTS!”

Doctor Strange over Thor

Doctor Strange and Thor have similar weaknesses in that both depend upon objects for some percentage of their power. For Thor, it is Mjölnir. For Doctor Strange, it is Cloak of Levitation, Eye of Agamotto and the Book of the Vishanti. Either could have those objects destroyed and lose some significant portion of their power.

As has been noted, Thor has more basic power than Stephen Strange. However, Strange has a significant edge in brain power (assuming that we are talking about the non-Donald Blake version). I have been assuming all along that Marvel bracket fights occur in the Marvel U and DC bracket fights occur in the DCU. Intelligence and especially education are huge edge in the Marvel U. This is a place where Reed Richards can defeat Galactus. Moreover, pure physical strength never counts for much. Spidey can square off against the Hulk.

So, the question comes down to this: is Stephen Strange smart enough to devise a plan to separate Thor from his power source (Mjölnir, Odin, whatever) before Thor can knock him out?

I mean, how hard would it be for Strange to travel to Asgrad and convince Odin to turn off Thor’s powers? Odin is punishing Thor every fifteen minutes anyway. He could shift the battle onto a plane where neither has a physical form and totally negate all Thor’s powers.

In the Marvel U, no one with magical (or semi-magical) powers gets past Dr. Strange.

“In the Marvel U, no one with magical (or semi-magical) powers gets past Dr. Strange.”

Heh. Good point. I like that.

Plus, and just throwing this out there, we already had Batman vs. Thor last year. Been there, done that. Batman vs Dr. Strange, however, would be a brand-new, out-of-left-field cool thing to debate back and forth about.

When in doubt, vote for the most interesting thing.

In the Marvel U, no one with magical (or semi-magical) powers gets past Dr. Strange.

Loki has pretty much every single time he’s encountered Strange.

have to give it to thor mostly because unless doctor strange knows of a spell to not only block Mlnoir power or even take it from thor. strange is going to get a beating and a a little taste of lighting by thor.

I went with Thor.

It looks like, judging from comments, the fight comes down to whether or not Strange can separate Thor from his hammer, so if Thor decides not to throw it, he should be okay.

Just wondering, can 30-minute prep time include Thor placing a phone call to Captain America for advice? Cap would probably say, ‘hold onto your hammer’ and that would be that.

Les Fontenelle

March 30, 2014 at 7:32 pm

I think this is one of the cases where having time to prepare makes all the difference. If Strange were just abruptly thrown into a brawl with Thor, the thunderer would get the upper hand. But if Strange has thirty minutes to prepare spells and take the appropriate game-changing arcane tools from his storage room, I really think he can contain Thor. And Strange can freeze time; if Doctor Strange has thirty minutes to get ready, he really has all the time in the world.

And I’m a huge Batman fan, but I believe Doctor Strange would beat Batman too. Begin by exiling Bats to the dark dimension for a bit so the mindless ones can wear him down, bring him back once he’s exhausted to reduce his reaction time, wrap him for christmas with the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak, followed by a merciful mystical blast… and it’s lights out for the Caped Crusader. Batman might try a batarang or some other ranged attack, but Strange has been capable of crafting shields with one hand while blasting with the other since Ditko was tripping on his backgrounds. If Doc’s arcane shields can hold arcane blasts and gunfire, I think they can stop a batarang. Thirty minutes’ prep time would benefit them both equally, but Strange starts from a whole other power level.

Doctor Strange will turn Thor into a rat and kick his immortal ***.

Batman might try a batarang or some other ranged attack, but Strange has been capable of crafting shields with one hand while blasting with the other since Ditko was tripping on his backgrounds. If Doc’s arcane shields can hold arcane blasts and gunfire, I think they can stop a batarang.

Bear in mind that Ditko also had a fairly experienced Doc, fresh from battling Dormammu and Mordo, almost die because a rival sorcerer pulled out a plain old gun and shot him in.

Doctor Strange will turn Thor into a rat and kick his immortal ***.

Please do name any story, any story at all, where Strange does anything resembling that to a major character and it works. He didn’t do it any of those many, many times the Hulk acted up in the Defenders. He didn’t do it when he was taking on supervillains in that title. He doesn’t do it in his own comic against even relatively weaker mystics.

It’s almost as if he actually can’t do things like that, or at least not terribly often or easily, and instead some people have weird ideas about that characters can or can’t do that they got from nowhere at all.

http://www.neilalien.com/doc/powers/

Above is the most comprehensive list of Doctor Strange’s powers that I’ve ever seen outside of the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe.

Considering all these powers/spells at Strange’s command, he would appear unbeatable. But like almost all overpowered characters, they never employ all their abilities to maximum effectiveness (in the interest of a “fair fight”), choosing mostly to slugfest or sling energy bolts.

Doc’s first tactic is to obviously remove Mjolnir to another location/dimension. This is a temporary solution, as Mjolnir has broken through Hell and other dimensions to return to Thor.

Many of Strange’s physical abilities, including Zom-boost, bolts, beams, containment spells and the like, can all be withstood or shattered by Thor’s physical might, with or without Mjolnir.

This leaves Strange with attacks of illusion or the mind with which to attack Thor, which could work, given Thor is unable to tell real from illusion without Mjolnir. Remember, Strange can employ a myriad of spells while in astral form, meaning Thor has no way to touch Strange as he’s being assaulted by mind attacks from the Eye of Agamotto.

Strange’s best chances are to drive Thor mad (as he did with Galactus), hypnotize, enchant or remove Thor from the battlefield before Mjolnir returns.

Thor will mainly be on defensive, loosing the odd lightning bolt/wind attack on Strange with little effect. And face it, even with 30 minutes prep, do you really think Thor’s gonna plan anything outside of “throw Mjolnir” or “call down the lightning”? I believe Strange will make better use of the prep time and find a way to temporarily incapacitate Thor until the match is called (presuming there’s a time limit or count that the opponent can use to return to the fight… too much time, and Mjolnir returns and the fight’s over).

I want to see Strange vs. John Constantine (or vs. Batman).

I want to see Strange vs. John Constantine (or vs. Batman).

I think Strange wins those two fights, since his brand of magic lacks the ritual weaknesses of most DCU magic that isn’t wielded by Zatanna or Doctor Fate. Batman lacks any real way of learning the rules of Strange’s magic, and Constantine’s magic follows a lot of rules that Strange’s doesn’t. And both of them would have trouble given that Strange’s most commonly used magical effects powers are largely innate mental disciplines or the effects of his enchanted paraphernalia, requiring minimal preparation.

Good call, Omar.

Batman is a wash here.

But Constantine, clever as he is, is dealing with something which he has little prior knowledge of (with only 30 minutes prep). Therefore, while he’s playing word games and throwing verbal jabs to discern how Strange’s powers work, he’s constantly on the defensive, never gaining any real ground. I’m not sure Strange could teleport John anywhere as the hosts that rule that dimension likely won’t want him there and throw him out.

But Strange can certainly bind John in an instant, use the Eye of Agamotto, in league with the Cloak of Levitation to keep John trapped and entranced until the fight is called.

Alternately, John is smart, and not to be underestimated. He’ll use the prep time to strike a deal with Dormammu or Mordo to help him win. After his victory, but before they can kill Strange, he utilizes a built-in loophole to his bargain (he always has one) to save Strange and temporarily banish his “help”.

Victories are possible on both ends. If I had to call it, I would say Constantine, but I really can’t put up a stronger defense against Strange winning. I’m happy either way.

Neither of these two should be here, anyway. Silver Surfer who can travel at light speed, is practically invulnerable, and can turn Dr. Strange’s toys to cheese with matter manipulation? Please. The only guy here who might have beat him with time to prepare was…Dr. Doom. Who Thor has taken down along with the Hulk. Three is a row is a ridiculous run for Thor to win. And guys Strange fights, like Dormammu, is really more Odin level than Thor. But whatever, Thor will probably win again.

And guys Strange fights, like Dormammu, is really more Odin level than Thor. But whatever, Thor will probably win again.

It’s not as if Strange sits there and trades shots with Dormammu, though; he usually works out a way to trick Dormammu into screwing up and exploits some magical loophole or uses Dormammu’s twisted code of honor against him.

I am surprised and impressed that Doctor Strange got past Silver Surfer to make it this far (good job Strange!) but the ride ends here for Doctor Strange.

Those who are arguing in favour of Doctor Strange seem to be focusing on the possibility of either separating Thor from Mjolnir or sending Thor to another dimension where he will be worn down by battling demons or something. Those strategies might buy Strange some time, but they will not get him the win. As others have pointed out even if Strange does separate him from his hammer,Thor can summon back Mjolnir no matter where Strange sends it. And if Strange manages to send Thor to some other dimension – so be it, Thor will battle demons for days and hardly break a sweat. Eventually Strange is going to have to take Thor down himself and when that happens Thor will defeat him.

As long as Strange tries to fight Thor with anything but mental/astral attacks, Thor is going to win this.
Strange’s prep time would well be spent preparing spells that will attack Thor’s mind and try to gain the win before Mjolnir returns from wherever it was banished.

As soon as this becomes a physical contest, no flames, bands or other physical force is going to put Thor down.

Willie Everstop

March 31, 2014 at 4:29 pm

If Thor could be beaten by illusions and magic tricks then Loki would probably be ruling Asgard by now.

Thor lasting for days in a hell environment? Not if he’s wrapped up in Crimson Bands of Cyttorak like a Christmas turkey while big baddies are beating on him. Mindless Ones? Even the Odin-like Dormammu is afraid of them. Or N’garai demons? They’re each Hulk-level, and there’s a whole planet of them. Ouch.

Plus, it’s kind of hard to grasp a returning hammer when you’re trussed up. Sure, Thor might be able to break the bands. And Strange can then send the returned hammer away again, and keep recasting the bands from hiding, all while the baddies keep the beat-down up. No one can keep up a prolonged fight with that kind of hamstringing.

And that’s just if Dr. Strange sends him to a hell-dimension where overcoming Thor physically is the goal. Why attack someone where they’re strongest? How about sending him instead to a place where the air is made of deadly poison (New Jersey?), or where the laws of physics don’t allow objects to be grasped (sorry Mjolnir), or where a person has no physical form at all?

There’s lots of ways for Dr. Strange to win this, and Thor has only one: punching. Strange can do this, if he just gets the votes.

“The power over weather is not in the hammer, it has always been in me. The hammer just lets me focus it.”

Separating Thor from Mjolnir – if even accomplished – would just mean that instead of hitting Strange with it or with a targeted lightning bolt, Thor will whip up a storm that levels not just a single mansion, not just Bleecker Street, not just Greenwich Village, but the entire NYC – if not more.

Ultimately – Thor has 2 blockbuster movies, Dr. Strange has one failed TV pilot from almost 40 years ago a straight to DVD animated movie. Thor all the way.

Strange’s best trick in this fight isn’t stranding Thor in another dimension and removing the hammer. It’s going into astral form and possessing Thor like a spirit. Thor’s mind can’t stand against Strange’s.

He’d lose to Prof X for the same reason. Heck, Strange is possibly the only one who could beat Xavier in a full on mental attack.

@ Willie Everstop Must not have watched Thor Dark World yet….

Are you EVER not going to stop falling for this? ;-)

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