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Comics Should Be Good 2014 March Madness: Final Round

Here is the Finals for this year’s Comics Should Be Good March Madness.

This year, you’re choosing which characters you think would win in a (non “to the death”) fight.

Enjoy!

First up, in the first Final Four match-up, out of 3,062 votes, Thor took Spider-Man for a ride, 75% to 25%…

Finally, in the other Final Four match-up, out of 3,045 votes, Superman told Batman to “hush,” 51% to 49%…

So it is Superman versus Thor!

Simply choose who you think would win in a (non “to the death”) fight in the following match-up. The voting concludes 72 hours from right now!

Superman and Thor have, let’s say, a half hour to prepare (so it’s not like Superman just walking up to Thor and and punching him in the face – Thor would be prepared), and can use whatever weaponry you figure would be typical for that character (so Thor can use whatever weapons you would expect him to normally use, but he can’t go get, I dunno, the Infinity Gauntlet, or whatever). We’re using the New 52 versions of Superman. Also, a quick word on prep-time. When I say “prepare,” I really mean planning. They can’t, like, do anything to the place where they fight or anything like that. They can just quickly prepare for their opponent.


bracket-2

146 Comments

Awesome! I’m really glad this is the matchup. This is exactly what I was hoping for.

Sam Robards, Comic Fan

April 6, 2014 at 5:41 am

Great final matchup!

There were four potential final matches that would’ve been great: this one, Superman/Hulk, Wonder Woman/Hulk and Wonder Woman/Thor.

Seriously, I really want Diana to make it through one of these years: I voted for her like mad against Superman.

Everyone remember – Superman doesn’t have any particular weakness to magic. He has as much defense against it as any other Superhero who doesn’t have a particular defense against magic – which is practically all of them.

Dancj:”Everyone remember – Superman doesn’t have any particular weakness to magic. He has as much defense against it as any other Superhero who doesn’t have a particular defense against magic – which is practically all of them.”

Is that the New52 take? Because the pre-52 Superman was uniquely vulnerable to magic.Cf ACTION COMICS annual 1, where a vampire slashes Supes with her nails. JLA 95, where a vampire bites supes in the neck. ACTION COMICS 521, where the magically powered Vixen claws Superman’s face, etc.

This issue of magic is really important to a Superman vs Thor fight, so I would really appreciate it if someone could provide a definite answer to the New 52 understanding of Superman and magic.

Superman can lift Thor’s hammer. If he takes it away and flys up a bit, Thor has no chance. Particularly if it’s “60 second time limit” Thor.

New 52 Superman? One that’s nowhere near as powerful as the “traditiional” Superman?

Thor takes him.

Found a New52 issue involving Superman and magic. JUSTICE LEAGUE 16 (VOL. 4). The Ocean Master demolishes Superman via his magical control over lightning. That example does not bode well for Superman in a fight against Thor…..

Good job everybody! Thor beats Superman, and easily. Magic hammer for one, and him being Thor for two.

When has Superman fought someone like Thor before, and it wasn’t Thor? Thor fights guys like Superman, and wins, all the time.

I’ve never seen a guy who likes toys, a lot, beat or imprison Thor. Case closed.

Does Thor still have the Odinforce? If so, Thor hands down. Actually without the Odinforce I’d still pip Thor over Nu 52 Superman; Thor has the experience, unlike three years ago.

One of these guys is mothafuckin’ Superman, and one of them isn’t.

Glad about this final matchup.

I always think Superman’s near Flash-level super speed is a huge ace in the hole in fights like these (I’m assuming he’s still fast in New 52, I don’t follow that stuff).

But unlike previous rounds, I’ll let this gestate in my brain a bit before I vote.

Again, great final bout!

LouReedRichards

April 6, 2014 at 9:24 am

One of these guys is an ancient god with thousands of years of experience, and one of them isn’t

Damn am I glad Supermam beat batman! I mean I like batman, he’s a good character, but I always hate that “batman can take down anyone with enough time” rule. Thor beats Superman in this battle, though.

Thor is strong and has magic, one of superman’s weaknesses.

So where was X-O Manowar, Savage Dragon, and other independents in this match? I like DC and Marvel as much as the next fanboy, but come on.

“Comics should be good” should include good comics like Valiant, Image, Dark Horse and the other Indys

Thor knows how to fight, even without Mjolner Superman does not stand a chance. One is a god with plenty of experience and thousands of years of warfare under his belt. The other is someone who never faces any challenges, when he goes up against someone stronger and more powerful than him he loses.

BTW Thor would beat Doomsday, and Doomsday would stay dead when Thor is done with him.

Thor can summon his hammer back to him, so Superman taking his hammer doesn’t work.

Thor is a warrior. Superman has no hand to hand training. If Wonder Woman is giving Superman work, imagine what Thor would do to him.

Now if Superman were the type to blitz his enemies at super speed, he would always win almost any fight. But he doesn’t, so Thor wins.

Les Fontenelle

April 6, 2014 at 10:17 am

Of course the physics-defying god with millennia of battle experience against planet-shattering titans wins against the untrained farm-boy who NEVER uses his powers to their full potential.

Thor’s willingness to use extreme force and even kill his opponents gives him an extra edge, and it’s not like Thor *needed* that edge to begin with. Furthermore, to remove any lingering doubts, Superman has no defense against supernatural powers – if Superman can be wounded by the Ocean Master’s magic lightning, you KNOW Thor will crush Superman into paste.

This isn’t planet-moving Silver-Age Superman, and this isn’t 60-seconds-time-limit Thor. We’re talking about a guy with zero training who’s unwilling to go “all out” against a vastly-experienced veteran warrior who’s willing to kill. Heat vision is useless against someone who has wrestled against Surtur. Superspeed won’t be enough to evade mystic whirlwinds. If Superman is lucky, Thor will stop hammering him before permanent damage is done.

Wow, this is the epic last fight we deserve! I could see either one of them winnng this one!

I was wrong, Thor beats superman easily

Les Fontenelle

April 6, 2014 at 10:20 am

“BTW Thor would beat Doomsday, and Doomsday would stay dead when Thor is done with him.”

Quoted for truth.

There is a question as to whether Superman is susceptible to “magic lightning” from Mjolnir. After all, don’t know if this is “magic-Thor” or “super-science so advanced it’s indistinguishable from magic-Thor”. But the advantage still goes to Thor, who uses his control over the weather to summon dark storm clouds that block out the sun. After a while, Superman’s energy reserves become depleted, and Thor presses his advantage. Afterwards, victorious Thor takes Kal-El for a vanilla milk shake at his favorite malt shop, only to discover that this part of the City has been redeveloped, and it is now a Disney Store!

William McGuire

April 6, 2014 at 10:35 am

Superman takes him, and it’s not the hardest battle of his life.

He may be vulnerable to magic, but Thor can’t even hit something as fast as Superman.

Thor wins this one. Not a personal preference, just a bad matchup for Superman – magical demigod is probably the only non-kryptonite option for beating him.

if Thor wore his Odin belt and elfin oak shield ( like he did against Thanos and Magog) etc. Supes would not stand a chance…..

I’m still stewing over the fact people actually pick Thor to beat the Hulk. A Gamma radiation explosion is so powerful it can be seen without a telescope billions of miles from earth, and the Hulk still never gets any justice. This is nothing but a popularity contest and not about the hero’s true fighting potential. To quiet the nay sayers, I was actually a Superman fan long before I knew who the Hulk was and I still am. but I had to give credit where credit was due. Gamma radiation is the most powerful force there is “ergo” Hulk is the most powerful, but lately I’ve noticed he never gets his true credit.

Jan Robert Andersen

April 6, 2014 at 10:44 am

Given this is a match between DC New 52 Superman and the current post Dark Reign/Siege/Heroic Age/ Chaos War/Fear Itself/AVX/Marvel Now/Age of Ultron/All-New Marvel Now version Thor I would actually say Thor would win.

Sure DC New 52 Superman has evolved from his Action Comics origin to the Justice League and Superman Unchained version but I fear he would not be able to withstand Thor. The DC New 52 Superman has become fiercer and even more ruthless but current Thor is a hardened Asgadian warrior resurrected many times.

The Silver Age and Bronze Age Superman would have taken down 1960-1980s Thor anytime with little or no real effort. The 1986 relaunch Man of Steel and early Superman Volume 2 would not be able to defeat even the 1980s Beta Ray Bill era Thor versions.

The post Death of Superman, post Superman: Birthright and Infinite Crisis up to New Krypton Superman would eventually have evolved to be able to tackle and also beat 1990s and early 2000s Thor (also given the way 1990s Marvel characters eveolved/devolved). The post 2007 Thor Volume 3 relaunch version would most certainly be stalemate with the later pre DC New 52 Superman.

The 2005 All-Star Superman and 1986 Batman: The Dark Knight Returns future versions would both defeat most future versions of Thor.

The Christopher Reeve 1978 Superman Movie, the 2006 Superman Returns and especially the 2013 Man of Steel versions version would also easily win over the 2011 and 2013 Thor movie version anytime.

George Reeves, Dean Cain and Tom Welling Smallville TV versions would all have problems with most movie and TV Thor versions.

The 1996-2000s Superman. The Animated Superman, Superman: Brainiac Attacks, Superman: Doomsday, Superman/Batman Public Enemies, Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths, Superman/Shazam, All-Star Superman, Justice League: Doom, Superman vs the Elite would also have little or no problems knocking out any 1990s and 2000s animated Thor versions including The Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes and Avengers Assemble.

The animated Batman: Dark Knight Returns version would have no problems handeling animated Thor his dented helmet.

The recent Justice League: Flashpoint Paradox and Justice League War versions and the latter in fact the DC New 52 Superman would have problems with The Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes and Avengers Assemble Thor coming full circle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publication_history_of_Superman
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thor_(Marvel_Comics)

So where was X-O Manowar, Savage Dragon, and other independents in this match?

Where were they in the DC/Marvel Comic Character Tournament? Man, I dunno…

Is this the “new” Marvel cinema version of Thor,where he’s not a god, he’s just an alien?

Whilst my vote is still with Thor, I think a detail a few people are missing is this is not to the death. With Thor’s sense of honour I think he would want to make a good fight of it. This ties into Thor’s arrogance and opens the door for Superman to change up a gear when he gets a feel for Thor’s power level.

However, like with the Hulk, Thor has the durability and tactical know-how to finish the fight off before his opponent gets a foothold. It would make for a dramatic finish, but Thor’s experience would always see him through.

Thor FTW!

Although, I believe that the new 52 Superman is supremely powerful. He us still discovering all of his powers and ultimate potential. He’s not a military strategist nor has eons of fighting experience. It wouldn’t matter how super intelligent he is either. Thor has the upper hand he needs to beat the Man of Steel.

Comic book Thor vs Superman: definitely Thor, given that (as others have noted) comic book Thor’s powers are essentially magic based. And, since this is a comic book site, that’s the version I’m going with.

Thor is as magical (or not) as Wonder Woman, but somehow that was not an advantage for her against Superman.

Seems like some Thor-supporters are unsure if he can beat Superman fairly and are quick to make use of the very inconsistent magic weakness for Superman. Kind of a cheap tactic, and does not make for a good fight either.

If they fight it will probably be like in JLA/Avengers, close but an edge to Superman.

New 52 Superman?

Thor wins. If it’s not pre-Crisis Superman, Thor wins. It doesn’t matter whether or not Superman is weak to magic.

Thor’s a freaking GOD.

Thor FTW.

Fred the snake

April 6, 2014 at 11:44 am

Correct me if I am wrong,the madder the Hulk gets the stronger the Hulk gets,
Thor beating the hulk ,,aint happening,,did not the Hulk kick his ass in years ago in a marvel comic episode,as well as pick up his hammer,

Thor’s a freaking TOOL. ;)

Superman.

All the examples Trajan gives are exactly examples of why Superman is not MORE vulnerable to magic than any other hero; he’s just not any LESS vulnerable to it than any other hero. Vampires can bite his neck just like they can bit Aquaman’s neck or Wonder Woman’s neck. It’s neither easier for them nor harder for them. Same with the claws. He’s just used to having a special defense against everything else. If someone casts a spell against him, he’s not any more likely to repel the spell than anyone else because of his powers, but it’s not going to have GREATER effect on him because he’s Kryptonian. It’s not like Kryptonite, which is a special weakness unique to Kryptonians. It’s just a workaround.

Thor has unlimited electricity and sonics, which are magical in nature.

I admit, I’m biased. I’m a Thor fan, but I think that I see this one going his way. Superman does have the advantage of speed, but Thor has so much more than himself, being able to throw storms in the way.

Doesn't Understand

April 6, 2014 at 12:05 pm

“Thor is a God”

You all act like Thor has never lost a single fight ever and that being a God means that you just win everything.

Superman takes this. Magic is played on as much as Kryptonite. At least Batman’s not here.

Doesn't Understand

April 6, 2014 at 12:08 pm

Also don’t forget Darkseid is a God and Superman has taken him on PLENTY of times

The people who voted to date are idiots. Superman wouldn’t have got past Zatana in round 1. Hulk has been superior to Thor in recent years. Furthermore we’ve never actually seen the breakdown of the votes so I’m not convinced this is on the level.

Thor would so take Superman. Strength wise they are about evenly matched but thats it. Thor is “The Greatest Warrior” there is. He is skilled in almost every fighting technique and skilled at almost every battle skill there is, and he has been at it for thousands of years. Superman does not have the skill nor the experience that Thor commands. Also as a warrior, knowing he has to battle to the death Thor would not hesitate nor hold back from taking Superman out. Superman on the otherhand might go full bore knowing Thor can take it, but killing or attempting to kill? Superman couldn’t and wouldn’t do it, which means Thor would take him.
Now add to the the fight Mjolnir, one of the most powerful weapons in the universe and Superman is toast. Powerwise Thor is the God of Thunder, Lord of the Living Lightning. Thor not only commands the elements he also commands the cosmic storms. These abilities far surpass Superman’s. Besides Thor is a God with abilities that I am sure haven’t even been examined, whereas Superman is an alien and mortal. Thor would be in a great fight, but in the end he would win.

Willie Everstop

April 6, 2014 at 12:24 pm

Thor’s magical strength hits just like regular super strength and he uses magic to call down regular lightning. Superman fights like a butler, but he is a lot faster than Thor. Can Thor even turn while flying?

I still give the edge to Thor because of his grit, durability, and centuries of experience fighting creatures that are just as strong as he is. Superman could do a lot of high speed damage until Thor finally grabs his arm and turns him into a super nail.

Jan Robert Andersen

April 6, 2014 at 12:27 pm

Also Thor would surely get some Krytonite in the Asgardian armory or Odin’s trophy room o somewhere in the Nine Realms.

Thor really has no weakness like that for Superman to exploit the same way (Mjolnir is in fact not the origin of his powers but simply a weapon/tool/focus point).

Superman has more powers than just his super strength and a combination of his many powers would give him an edge over Thor.

Thor can travel dimensions, fly at either supersonic speed or faster than light, control weather and has various godly powers and some extreme powers as well (most only seen rarely).

In JLA/Avengers #2 Superman wins over Thor in their fight using his heat vision and brute force. But after their fight he is weakened and can’t even stand up to the combined attacked by the remaining Avengers.

In JLA/Avengers #4 Thor gives Superman Mjolnir during the climax but Superman could not lift Mjolnir after the fight.

But this is not the current DC New 52 Superman and this is also not the current post 2007 Thor Volume 3 Thor.

Thor would be the winner as it is now.

In fact I’m hard pressed to see if most or not all DC New 52 versions of the DC characters would not be ably to stand up to current Thor.

Through Jim Lee the DC New 52 comes across sort of like Wildstorm versions of the DC characters.

Any New Gods would be contenders to defeating Thor. Darkseid was the evil force in Justice League #1-6.
This DC New 52 Darkseid looks and feels very much like Thanos. However Apokolips has not been seen in the DC New 52 yet and New Genesis was seen in Wonder Woman #12 but with few New Gods.

The DC New 52 Wonder Woman is now much more rooted in myth and mysticism but is in no way a match for Thor.

Spectre would be a good bet as well but the DC New 52 version is in no way the omni-potent Wrath of God. Spectre now carries out vengeance chosen by The Voice (of God?) but somehow not as powerfull as before the The New 52.

Pandora, Phantom Stranger and Question is the Trinity of Sin and seemingly very important for the DC New 52 with John Constantine as a recurring character. They are also connected to the Rock of Eternity, The Wizard and Shazam but they also would give Thor no grief.

After the current Forever Evil where Crime Syndicate has taken over the Earth with Blight a mojor villain as well the DC New 52 is somehow evolved into Futures End some five Years into the future. But very little is revealed and I’m not sure this furtue will have any real contenders as well.

Pre DC New 52 Batman would have some kind of plan to take down any version of Thor. The current DC New 52 version is very close to the pre DC New 52 version but I’m not sure if he would have the same plans.

Les Fontenelle

April 6, 2014 at 12:29 pm

Apart from hitting people with Mjolnir,Thor’s entire arsenal (from lightning to direct godbursts) is magic. As Buttler pointed out, Superman is just as vulnerable to magic as anyone else and not MORE vulnerable – but that still means Supes is just as defenseless against magic lightning as anyone else. Getting blasted by magic lightning would fry Superman just like it would fry anyone else (unlike regular lightning, which wouldn’t even break his stride). After a couple of lightning blasts to the face, Superman would be as weakened as he was when Batman trounced him in “Dark Knight Returns”, and this time it’s not Batman he’s fighting. Add that power advantage to Thor’s thousands of years of battle experience, and the outcome is clear.

Jan Robert Andersen

April 6, 2014 at 12:35 pm

Hulk would most likely beat Thor and then also Superman. Hulk is somehow a force of nature (somewhat like Doomsday was in the pre DC New 52).

Superman could beat him down, use his heat vision but Hulk would return and eventuelly beat Superman (and unlike Doomsday it would be during their fight and not in the next fight).

And the current Batman would not be able to punch Hulk in his solar plexus this time around.

if were talking about 60ies Superman, he ‘would’ mop the floor with Thor if he really had to.

Tough as noted in a pre-crisis comic, where he had to fight a doppelganger, he would never fight on account of being afraid to crack the planet in half….(that’s why ‘man of steel’ is a scifi film and not a superman movie….)

Superman moves planets. Superman moves at near light speeds. I understand the hammer is magic but it would be impossible to hit Superman with it. He would move too fast.

One Above All

April 6, 2014 at 1:11 pm

People always try to say Superman’s speed would help him, but he never uses it like that. IF this were the case he or the Flash would never ever lose, but they do. Plus Superman doesn’t really have superspeed like its a power of its own. He’s physically enhanced and that makes him fast, he has super speed in the same way Thor or Hercules does so really his speed isn’t that much of a factor.

Superman wouldn’t have got past Zatana in round 1.

We’ve seen Zatanna taken out by Deathstroke, as he hit her too quickly for her to say anything (since she has to speak her magic spells out loud for them to work). Clearly, the voters felt that Superman would use his super-speed to knock her out before she had a chance to say anything. Which is why he won so convincingly.

It’s too bad Wonder Woman didn’t get this far because she would kick Thor’s ass.

Mckraken:”if were talking about 60ies Superman, he ‘would’ mop the floor with Thor if he really had to.”

Given the Silver Age Superman’s vulnerability to magic, I’m not so sure about that…..

Willie Everstop:”Thor’s magical strength hits just like regular super strength and he uses magic to call down regular lightning.”

Thor can also use Mjolnir to emit magical force bolts.

Willie Everstop:” Superman fights like a butler, but he is a lot faster than Thor. Can Thor even turn while flying?”

Yes. As depicted in the comics, he turns by “steering ” his hammer.

even under comic book terms i find it silly to accept Thor as some sort of medieval witch using “magic”. Its BS. A god doesnt need to have his powers explained in any sort of way.

Just as nobody questioned Superman’s ability to fly just because he comes from a planet with lesser gravity…or maybe its magic, too, who knows!!

buttler:”All the examples Trajan gives are exactly examples of why Superman is not MORE vulnerable to magic than any other hero; he’s just not any LESS vulnerable to it than any other hero. Vampires can bite his neck just like they can bit Aquaman’s neck or Wonder Woman’s neck. It’s neither easier for them nor harder for them. Same with the claws. He’s just used to having a special defense against everything else. If someone casts a spell against him, he’s not any more likely to repel the spell than anyone else because of his powers, but it’s not going to have GREATER effect on him because he’s Kryptonian. It’s not like Kryptonite, which is a special weakness unique to Kryptonians. It’s just a workaround.”

Buttler, Superman has super-hard skin, yes? Bullets bounce off it, yes? Knives shatter on impact, yes? This being the case, how can a vampire’s fangs penetrate his skin? They penetrate his skin because they are magical. His skin cannot resist magic.Q.e.d., Superman is uniquely vulnerable to magic.

For that matter, look at the Vixen story where she scratches Superman (ACTION COMICS 521). The Vixen’s claws only have the power of an Earth animal’s claws. Superman has repeatedly shown that his skin can resist the claws of lions, bears, etc. Her claws scratched his “invulnerable” skin because her powers are magical in nature.

One Above All

April 6, 2014 at 1:45 pm

Thor can fly using his Hammer, or he can fly just using the weather like storm does

One Above All

April 6, 2014 at 1:49 pm

Don’t forget about thors ability to open portals, he could trick superman into one that puts supes right near a red sun. His mother is Gaea (sp?) so he also has power over the earth as well. She is also an elder god, so even without the odin Force Thor has reserves of power hes never even begun to use

If Thor takes the fight seriously, he shows up wearing magic armor, with a magic chariot and the belt of strength.

If Superman takes the fight seriously, he remembers he has super-speed.

I figure it’s a classic rope-a-dope. Thor’s got centuries more experience and can roll with Superman’s punches until he can land one of his own with the hammer or with the lightning.

“he turns by steering his hammer” – that sounds really lame (literally).
Provided Superman stays airborne and uses his great speed, he wouldn’t even break a sweat.
(or get hit by anything)

buttler:”All the examples Trajan gives are exactly examples of why Superman is not MORE vulnerable to magic than any other hero”

For an example of a hero who can resist a vampire’s bite, check out CAPTAIN AMERICA 254. Cap’s thin layer of chain mail/scale mail covering his neck is strong enough to stop Baron Blood’s teeth. Does this mean that Cap’s chain mail/scale mail is stronger than Superman’s skin? Or does it mean that Superman’s “invulnerability” does not extend to magic? Hence, when fighting a vampire, Superman’s skin is as vulnerable as a normal human’s.

mckraken:”Provided Superman stays airborne and uses his great speed, he wouldn’t even break a sweat.
(or get hit by anything)”

Superman gets hit by stuff in the comics all the time…..Like when he got clobbered by the Ocean Master’s lightning bolts in JUSTICE LEAGUE 16.

How the hell is the hulk not in the final? There is no scenario where the Hulk loses to Thor. Hulk’s strength and stamina have no limit. No matter Thor’s years of experience, hulk’s shear unlimited strength and stamina eventually wins ( I mean he rips him apart). Terrible vote.

Even someone like flash who moves so fast, a lot faster than wonder woman can react; I know wonder woman has experience and skill, but in fighting when one fighter is at least 10 times faster than you i don’t care who trained you, you loose that fight, imagine the force his punches land at because of the speed, and he could throw at least 1000 per second, and she moves to slow to hit him, i mean think about it.

For everyone saying Superman moves too fast for Thor to hit him, Thor seems to be able to hit (and beat) the Silver Surfer every time they fight. I’d say he’s as fast as Superman.

surprised to see batman not wind up in the finale for expected him to make it . even beat superman. the match is hard to call for both are kind of really powerful but have to say thor due to supermans vunerabilty even the new version to magic. like mjlnoir

Superman gets hit by stuff in the comics all the time…..Like when he got clobbered by the Ocean Master’s lightning bolts in JUSTICE LEAGUE 16.

he gets hit because the writer wants him too…lol. I mean in the time it takes Thor to lift his hammer to call down lightning, Superman would have landed a thousand punches in Thors bearded mug already. (and even if Thor somehow would manage to call down lightning at Superman’ previous position, well… he would hit a rock or a cactus…or..whatever.

Superman using his speed CANT loose this one. Period.

Kokokryptonite pebbles

April 6, 2014 at 2:20 pm

Thor easily. Also why the hell can’t I vote on this. It says I already voted. It always does that too and I never get a chance to vote. I also got my profile removed because they said I had another one, which I didn’t have. This is some bullshit, someone has no idea what they are doing

Kokokryptonite pebbles

April 6, 2014 at 2:21 pm

Super mans speed means nothing

In a fight where speed is overwhelmingly in one fighter’s favor, skill and experience go out the window. In a fight speed is very important. Using the ocean master scenario as a point is flawed, cause the writer enables it for drama, I mean without being biased superman will win almost every fight his in without a scratch but if writer’s do that don’t sell comics.

mckraken:

“he gets hit because the writer wants him too…lol. I mean in the time it takes Thor to lift his hammer to call down lightning, Superman would have landed a thousand punches in Thors bearded mug already. (and even if Thor somehow would manage to call down lightning at Superman’ previous position, well… he would hit a rock or a cactus…or..whatever.

Superman using his speed CANT loose this one. Period.”

Well, then we are in a strange realm where only theoretical uses of powers count? Not actual evidence from the comics?

One Above All

April 6, 2014 at 3:10 pm

Superman speed argument= Bullshit

Thor has this one. Sure Superman has superspeed. Thor is also impressively fast. Not as fast as Superman, but fast. Superman just doesn’t have that killer instinct and doesn’t use his powers that way. If this was Thor vs. Mr. Majestic who is practically identical to Superman in terms of powers- but a completely different personality (more warlike, better trained, etc)- I could see giving this to Majestic. But it’s not, it’s Superman, relatively untrained, farmboy/reporter/scientist’s son vs. the god of thunder/millenia old warrior (also, I guess he’s a doctor too… so he’s no dummy).

So, Superman has a speed edge, which is significant, but I can’t see giving this fight to him. Thor will use spam magic lightning AOE from go, Superspeed is only so good against AOE. Clark can’t fight Thor from range with heat vision, Thor will block that until yesteryear- while Thor’s ranged stuff will blast the hell out out of Clark. Clark will eventually hit with lightning and whammo with the hammer in melee, going for key strikes. Clark will get in a few good hits in, but he’s toast.

mckraken:“he gets hit because the writer wants him too…lol. I mean in the time it takes Thor to lift his hammer to call down lightning, Superman would have landed a thousand punches in Thors bearded mug already. (and even if Thor somehow would manage to call down lightning at Superman’ previous position, well… he would hit a rock or a cactus…or..whatever.

Superman using his speed CANT loose this one. Period.”

MMM, well, if we are going into the realm of what people could do, then Thor will use his own superspeed against Superman. It’s been established in the comics that Thor can use his hammer with faster than light speed (cf THOR 140). Of course, Thor practically never uses this ability in the comics when he is fighting people, but if that’s not going to stop Superman, I don’t see why the same courtesy shouldn’t be extended to Thor…..

Thor’s not exactly slow himself. He’s hit Quicksilver. He’s grabbed Hermes. Superman might be faster, but Thor’s fast enough to keep the match even. There’s also the fact that lightning travels – as the name suggests – somewhere around the speed of light. Superman is generally somewhat slower than that. So once Thor starts calling down the lightning, it’s going to hit Superman. And at the very least, the lightning will slow him down enough for Thor to punch him.

I gave the win to Thor.

I can’t help but think of the Beta-Ray Bill saga back in the 80’s. Superman wins and Odin awards him his own hammer. Can you get Walt to draw a Krypton-Asgardian?

I think ive figured it out, why Superman wins.

It’s because he is more fun to read. Weisinger Superman that is, forget the rest.
(tough those Kirby Thor issues were nice)

It’s always difficult to put aside personal prejudice (e.g. DC vs Marvel tribalism) or just general preference in these cases. I’m a fan of all these characters. They all have their place and they all have their role and they all stand for something different in their way.

For some reason it’s just struck me how much fun it would have been to have had Superman and Thor co-exist in the same universe. One is a warrior (Thor), the other a defender (Superman). There’s some amusing fan-fiction bouncing around in my head right now where during an alternate “Infinity” event we have Thor off on the front-lines (throwing hammers round the sun, as is his way), but Superman remains behind as Earth’s last line of defence. The Thanos invasion would have gone very differently if, as the dust began to settle from their initial assault, his forces were confronted by a lone figure in a familiar red cape standing defiantly before them.

An amusing image.

As to the match-up… I’d likely go with Superman. Just one on one. Which doesn’t mean Superman is “better” than Thor, or that “DC wins” or anything like that. There are things both can do that the other would be incapable of. But ultimately I would say that Big Blue takes the Asgardian Avenger in a mano-a-mano fight.

Umm.. this fight happened in the Avengers/JLA crossover book back in the (80’s?). Superman won decisively – blocking Thor’s hammer with his bare hands and then knocking him out.

Kick-Ass Dillon

April 6, 2014 at 5:16 pm

This match is fucking pointless I already know who is going to win and I hate these two more than any other comic book character. But everyone thinks power is everything this fight happened in the 90’s in Marvel vs Dc or Dc vs Marvel under the same circumstances and the winner was Superman. History will repeat itself even though Thor has more experience than the current day Superman. I dont care who wins they both suck.

I’m a diehard Marvel backer, but I chose Superman. Either way, that would be a fight that would tear the planet apart.

There is no “Pre-” this or “post-” that. Where they are now is where they are.
Though Hulk is strong, he is not invincible. If Thor is in ruthless mode, he would simply knock the living daylights out of the Hulk and then put his hammer on his chest. Game over. Regarding Superman, I have seen enough real fights to know it comes down to who hits a good solid hit first in real life. In comics, the ultimate death punch might only “phase” (or is it faze?) a person.
If Superman is unleashed (super speed, super strength) He can’t be beat. But I must add… the notion that he could “move a planet” is ridiculous.
My vote is for Superman.

“There’s also the fact that lightning travels – as the name suggests – somewhere around the speed of light.”

This is incorrect physics, and incorrect etymology as well.

Lighting (i.e. the electrostatic discharge itself, as opposed to the light it generates) moves at perhaps 1% the speed of light, and it was named long before the concept of “speed of light” existed.

I mean “Lightning” of course

Superman wins. Y’know why? Because – stay with me here – he would be worthy to wield the Hammer! Thor’s advantage, gone. All that’s left is his fashion sense.

Superman, duh? Kal would wipe the floor with Fabio. His Punches + almost Flash fast speeds, would leave Thor dazed and confused. Thor is the god of lighting true, but this Superman were talking about. His stamina is limitless, he poses god-like abilities, and he doesn’t even use ALL OF HIS POWERS TO HUS FULL POTENTIAL! If the Man Steel can do that imagine what he’s capable of doing if he does tap into his full potential. Thor wouldn’t stand a chance.

@ Les Fontenelle:

This isn’t planet-moving Silver-Age Superman, and this isn’t 60-seconds-time-limit Thor.

Who says that this isn’t Silver-Age Superman vs. Don Blake as Thor? The rules don’t specify. There has been a LOT of inevitable version picking in this and the final round is no exception. In the case of Superman v. Thor, we have a few precedents. There is one Superman vs. Thor fight, there are several Thor vs. (Marvel’s Superman proxy) Hyperion fights and at least one Superman vs. (DC’s Thor proxy) Wandjina. None of those really suggest a bow-out either way, but tend to favor Superman. In particular, Mjölnir is not the dispositive magical advantage that others in this thread seem to think it is.

Breaking it down systematically:

On Reach, each hero has a ranged attack. Thor has Mjölnir and Superman has his heat vision. Mjölnir is your basic blunt force trauma. It magical nature means that it can inflict damage on Superman. I think that we are talking about bruising and hematoma. (Before anyone raises lightening: http://tinyurl.com/pp8azbr) Superman counters with heat vision, which cannot be any fun to be on the receiving end of. Still, I am guessing that we are talking first degree burns. Advantage: Thor

On speed, Superman is one of the fastest characters in comics and Thor is decidedly not. Superman lands a dozen punches Thor can move. Advantage: Superman

On punching power, Thor is extremely strong and has a weapon that adds to his power. It has a quasi-magical nature that likely enables it to injure Superman. Still, he doesn’t swing the hammer with super-human speed. Anyone familiar with baseball understands that ‘bat speed’ is the key to power and Thor is decidedly ordinary in that regard. Superman’s fists may not have the mass of Thor’s hammer, but they move much, much faster. That means that they do more damage. Advantage: Superman

On fighting style, Clark Kent has big, open fighting style. It features lots of haymakers and not a lot of defense. Thor has more experience, but it is entirely in the Viking fighting style that is not so wildly different. Advantage: Draw

I am giving this to the Man of Steel, but he seems like a huge underdog in this thread.

Thor gets the gauntlets, the belt, Gungnir and any magical item he can think of and then readies the Godblast and a teleport to a particularly nasty sunless realm just in case. If it’s the new 52 Superman, then he’s toast.

Also, I’m just happy Batman lost.

Umm.. this fight happened in the Avengers/JLA crossover book back in the (80?s?). Superman won decisively – blocking Thor’s hammer with his bare hands and then knocking him out.

1. Never actually officially published, right?
2. This is specifically the New 52, which might make a difference (or might not, I guess the voters will decide!).

@Jim Kakalios

There is a question as to whether Superman is susceptible to “magic lightning” from Mjolnir. After all, don’t know if this is “magic-Thor” or “super-science so advanced it’s indistinguishable from magic-Thor”.

The way that I figure it, Marvel Earth has some kind of mystical field that controls its weather. Storm has a mutant ability to communicate the field. Mjölnir is a device that does the same thing. So, it is ordinary lightening. The other option is that it is an energy that is native to Asgard which appears to humans as lightening. Not sure that you’d call that “magical”, since it is ‘just’ an other dimensional energy.

LouReedRichards

April 6, 2014 at 8:44 pm

To all the people griping about why the Hulk or Wonder Woman aren’t here:
Get over it, they lost. Them’s the breaks. I would love a Dr. Doom vs. Darkseid match up, but it ain’t happening, because, y’know, they lost.

Better luck next time.

Superman wins handily. Why? Superman has every physical advantage. He’s faster, stronger, more invulnerable, greater endurance, sharper senses, etc. As you might imagine, those advantages matter quite a lot in a fight.

Yes, Thor has more experience, but it’s not as though Superman is INEXPERIENCED. Even in the New 52, he’s been active and constantly fighting for 5 years. That’s a considerable amount of experience. At some point, you learn everything it is that you’re going to know about fighting, and fighting becomes about things other than experience. 5 years is pretty sufficient. In an MMA fight, no one’s going, “Oh, he’s only been fighting for 5 years, and his opponent’s been fighting for 12? I’m taking the veteran.” Especially when the guy fighting for 5 years has every physical advantage. Tricks of the trade are overrated against an opponent who is faster, stronger, etc. Superman has ENOUGH experience to take advantage of his total physical superiority.

And unless I don’t understand how Mjolnir works, Thor’s magical advantage is overstated. Is it like Darkseid’s Omega Effect, and it always hits its target? Because if not, I’m pretty sure that Superman’s speed and sensory advantage will allow him to avoid long-range attacks from Mjolnir, and his speed should do the same up close. Thor has to actually hit Superman with the hammer in order to take advantage of his weakness to magic. And even if he does, does anyone think that one shot from Mjolnir is going to put Superman down? Because if not, and Superman realizes how dangerous it is, I don’t imagine Thor will be able to hit him with it a second time.

By the same token, how many full force punches of Superman’s can Thor take? I mean FULL force. Because another element of the New 52 Superman is that he punches first and asks questions later.

There’s just way too many points in Superman’s favor. Anyone voting for Thor is voting for Marvel comics over DC, and not with their heads.

Sam Robards, Comic Fan

April 6, 2014 at 9:03 pm

Since we’ve gotten into specifics about the fight itself, I think I’ll throw in my two cents.

I haven’t read too much of New52 Superman, but he doesn’t seem as powerful as he was before. He’s still strong and fast and durable, but not overwhelmingly so. I mean, if a young Hal Jordan can draw blood, then Superman ain’t as tough as he used to be. I can’t say anything about potential magic resistances, though. I know it’s a weak spot, but it’s not an instant win button, either. I’m mainly basing said observations off reading Justice League 1-6, Greg Pak’s Action Comics and Superman/Wonder Woman.

I haven’t read Thor since midway through Fraction’s run, but I’d say Thor at this point would most definitely be a match for Superman. He’s still strong, durable and stubborn as a mule. Unless Fraction or Aaron gave him a power boost/demotion lately.

When it’s all said and done, though, I have to go with Thor on this one. Superman getting a bit of a power downgrade + Thor’s magic arsenal and battle experience = Asgardian win.

If it were up to me, though, I’d have wanted Hulk to beat Thor back in round 3. The problem is that there have been so many different versions of the Hulk with such widely varying power levels that it’s really hard to figure out which one would beat whom. I mean, World War Hulk would likely beat every freakin’ body, and Professor Hulk would put down almost everyone. But Joe Fixit could’ve gotten KO’d by Ben Grimm in the right circumstances. I don’t even know where Waid’s got Hulk right now in terms of power level: I dropped Indestructible a while back.

For next year’s tourney (or maybe even a bonus tourney for this year!), how about doing all villains? Yeah, you’ve got a couple current/former villains on here, but I wanna see finals like Darkseid/Thanos, Doomsday/Apocalypse, Imperiex/Galactus, Zod/Loki, Dr. Polaris/Magneto, etc. Heck, you could even do both hero and villain tourneys each year like men and women’s basketball, but I know that would effectively double your workload…

Thor is a God, Superman is a alien….this shouldn’t even be a fucking debate!

Right; aliens are probable and gods aren’t. Superman wins!

Rocketscientist

April 6, 2014 at 10:00 pm

Brian Cronin

April 6, 2014 at 8:19 pm

Umm.. this fight happened in the Avengers/JLA crossover book back in the (80?s?). Superman won decisively – blocking Thor’s hammer with his bare hands and then knocking him out.

1. Never actually officially published, right?
2. This is specifically the New 52, which might make a difference (or might not, I guess the voters will decide!).

Brian, I don’t know if you are aware of this, but Kurt Busiesk’s JLA story, which takes place after JLA/Avengers, had the new universe that JLA/Avengers ended with. In other words, that story referenced the events in JLA/Avengers. So, for that post-Crisis (actually, post Zero-Hour) DCU, Superman did beat Thor in continuity.

Just for everyone’s info.

DCnU Superman? Thor breaks him. Far less experienced, extremely vulnerable to magic and just flat out not on the same level as Thor/Pre-Flashpoint Superman.

I swear Hulk fans annoy me like nothing else. The overrated green monster isn’t even in the match and they still spout the hyperbole of “his strength is limitless”. Sometimes I don’t know if I hate Hulk because of Hulk, or because of his fans. And people say Batgod fans are annoying.

Anyway… this is a tough one, since I am more of a Superman fan, but really started to love Thor as well over the last few years.

I think Thor wouldn’t use lightning off the bat, because he is all ego. He sees Supes and thinks thats an enemy worth fighting. If Supes uses that and realizes the true potential of his opponent first, he can and will win this. Also people forget that his New 52 suit is actually kryptonian armor, so he isn’t as naked against magic as he was before.

I think it would be a tough and worthy fight, but in the end I would never bet against Superman. Never. He is Superman and he always comes through. Still, tough choice. If Thor would be a deadly threat agains earth or the people Clark loves I would say it is an easier win for Supes because of his motivation. Since this is more of a tourney fight Thor would be slightly more into it.
Still voted Supes. He takes this.

Ultraman Ginga

April 6, 2014 at 10:52 pm

Son Goku wins.

How THOR Fans think this battle will go down.

Thor hits Superman with the hammer, making him bleed, breaking his jaw and then hitting him with a full on magic lightning strike ! Superman DOWN !

How SUPERMAN Fans think this battle will go down.

Thor gives a battle speech and when he’s done, Superman is like “I kicked you 1000 times in the nuts with super speed while you were blabbering on. You can fall down now”

What will most likely happen.

Thor throws hammer, Superman dodges, covers distance using Super speed, haymaker and clothesline to Thor. Thor gets Hammer back, swings at Superman who dodges using super reflex and uses more punches and heat vision. Thor gets enraged. Does spread lightning. Superman is hurt and falls down. Thor uses that advantage to hit Superman with the hammer with using mega lightning strike.
Now Superman is mad. He tries to block the Hammer hit with his arm but fails. Thor’s power hit with the hammer sends him flying away.
Thor uses the moment to take a breather but before he can recover, Superman flies back in at high speed and does the texas tornado on Thor, where Superman is moving around Thor at super speed and speed blitzing him with power punches and heat vision.
Thor tries to swing the hammer but fails to hit anything. He nukes the area with lightning. Superman gets hit and falls but uses freeze breath on Thor. That gives him enough time to recover before Thor can land a hit. Superman power uppercuts Thor, sending him into the stratosphere.
Thor does a aimed lightning strike. Superman uses the cape to block it and uses speed to power on through, hitting Thor out into space.
Thor swings the Hammer, Superman super speed to behind Thor and then everything stands still as Superman delivers the light speed punch, sending Thor back into Earth with the force of a Meteor.
Thor crashes like meteor strike and is KO.

Is that the New52 take? Because the pre-52 Superman was uniquely vulnerable to magic.Cf ACTION COMICS annual 1, where a vampire slashes Supes with her nails. JLA 95, where a vampire bites supes in the neck. ACTION COMICS 521, where the magically powered Vixen claws Superman’s face, etc.

This issue of magic is really important to a Superman vs Thor fight, so I would really appreciate it if someone could provide a definite answer to the New 52 understanding of Superman and magic.

I can’t answer for the New 52 version, but generally, if a blade or tooth is enchanted to be able to cut then Superman would be cut – as would Hulk, Sulver Surfer, J’onn Jonz and most other superheroes. If the blade/tooth was enchanted to be really really sharp then Superman would be as vulnerably to it as he would to any other blade that is that sharp – the magic would make no difference.

In the case of Thor, his hammer is (I believe) enchanted to hit really had so Superman would be as invulnerable to it as he is to anything else that hits that hard. The magic would not change that.

This is the kind of even match we need in the final. Popularity aside anyone can take this. Thor’s an experienced god who’s fought against all kinds of nasties. Superman’s that guy when all else fails he saves the day.

I’m giving my vote to Supes.

You do realize that Superman has been stunned by Captain Marvel/Shazam’s lightning several times in the past? That was against an opponent who doesn’t have control of the lightning. How can Kal El withstand repeated, controlled lightning attacks from Mjolnir? I’d like to see the Kryptonian go superspeed inside a lightning storm. Would his superfast body attract more electricity? Mjolnir can block heat vision, and freeze breath is child’s play to someone who fights Frost Giants every other weekend…

Zod, who has been exposed to a yellow sun only recently, managed to dislocate Kal El’s shoulder. That is how helpless Superman is to someone who is slightly weaker but has significantly more battle experience. If it weren’t for Wonder Woman’s advantage over Faora, Superman could be dead or trapped in the Phantom Zone right now

In the Avengers movie, Hulk was stronger than Thor, and in Amalgam Comics, Superman beat Hulk. (OK, this was Mullet Superman vs New 52 Superman, but still). If it’s solved by votes (like all the fights in Amalgam Comics,) Superman beat Thor in the recent “Bat in the Sun” Superman vs Thor beat down. Whatever the outcome, this would be a great fight to see, or even a better Team Up.

People have to remember the prep time here, too. Thor wouldn’t prepare, as he wouldn’t need to. He’s a warrior through and through and would most likely welcome the opportunity of a challenge, so he’ll just fight. kal, on the other hand, would prepare. He would know that the Thor is magical in nature, or at least his attacks are and would devise a way around it.

This is totally Rocky (Supes) vs. Clubber (Thor). “You ain’t so bad, you ain’t so bad, you ain’t nothin’. C’mon, champ, hit me in the face!”

Supes ain’t getting killed, he’s getting mad…

This is last years final. Thor should win based on Superman’s magic weakness. There is just too many Superman fanboys for Thor to overcome

Dean Hacker:”Who says that this isn’t Silver-Age Superman vs. Don Blake as Thor? The rules don’t specify.”

Actually, the rules do specify that we are using the New52 Superman:”We’re using the New 52 versions of Superman” (Brian Cronin).

Dean Hacker:”On Reach, each hero has a ranged attack. Thor has Mjölnir and Superman has his heat vision. Mjölnir is your basic blunt force trauma. It magical nature means that it can inflict damage on Superman. I think that we are talking about bruising and hematoma. (Before anyone raises lightening: http://tinyurl.com/pp8azbr) :

RE: Lightning and the New52 Superman, the Ocean Master took Superman out in JUSTICE LEAGUE 16 with lightning. Also, Mjolnir can emit magical force blasts as well.

His name is SUPERMAN. Thor is just a dude who stole Superman’s cape.

LouReedRichards

April 7, 2014 at 7:54 am

“Superman’s that guy when all else fails he saves the day.”

That also applies to every hero from the tournament. Supes doesn’t save the day any better than
Captain America, Spider-Man, Batman or Thor for that matter.

That’s the same thing as saying well Dr. Doom get’s beaten in every story or Darkseid plans always fail.
Of course they do, villains fail, heroes save the day.

Superman’s not objectively any more special than any other hero.

Reed Richards in 2015!
In your heart you know he’s right!

I hope I’m not too much of a homer voting for Thor, but I just think given that he is an actual warrior with way more fighting experience than Supes, plus he is basically magic based, plus he loves to fight and won’t have to hold back, I just think the odds are stacked against the Man of Steel.

Look, I’m as Marvel as the next guy, but this is Superman all the way. Superman doesn’t melt in the face of magic. It just means he’s not completely invulnerable to it. And it’s really debatable that he doesn’t have some invulnerability to it anyway, because these “magic lightning strikes” that keep getting brought up don’t kill him like a normal person, do they? Ocean Master didn’t kill Superman, did he? Captain Marvel calling down the SHAZAM lightning multiple times didn’t kill Superman. If anyone else gets hit by lightning that many times, consecutively, they’re dead. But he’s not. So it doesn’t completely affect him like normal; just more than bullets and things.

And how “magical” is Thor anyway? He’s not strong because he’s magical. He’s strong because he’s an Asgardian. They all have super strength. He’s just stronger than the others. So his punches aren’t “magical.” And maybe if he casts a lightning bolt from his hammer, that’s magical, but calling up a storm doesn’t make it a magic storm…it’s just weather. He controls the weather; he’s not creating a hurricane in space out of magic. So there’s no real reason to say him calling down lightning bolts makes them any more powerful than Superman in a thunderstorm (or facing Weather Wizard).

And the Superman never uses his super speed in a fight is silly, because how many times have you seen Thor just call down a storm that could destroy the east coast to do battle? Just about as “never” as the super speed fighting. If you’re going to go by how they normally use their powers, well Thor’s 1st, 2nd, and 3rd strategy is to brawl with a guy using his hammer. He doesn’t “lightning” Loki, he takes a swing at him. Which is the unspoken advantage for Superman; he may not be Batman, but he outsmarts his opponents fairly regularly, even really smart ones like Lex Luthor. Thor is usually pretty dumb. Not Hercules dumb, but a “are you ever not going to fall for that?” dumb. So Thor has the tactics, but Superman would probably think things out better than Thor, strategy wise. Thor’s ego would get in the way of any planning.

And yes, even I made fun of Superman having trouble with guys like Toyman. But face it, Thor is no better. He faced guys like Cobra, who can, uh, bend a lot. (I mean, not everyone can fight Shatterfist and defeat him).

People have mentioned if Superman gets his hand on the hammer, he could wield it….but also, whoever wields it has the power of Thor, right? So that mean in addition to all his own powers, he could do things like control the weather. (He doesn’t need Thor’s strength….when has Thor ever been shown to be anywhere near the strength level Superman displays in all his incarnations?)

What would have been more interesting would have been Silver Surfer vs. Superman. They could match speed, and it would have proven interesting. But too many “but Thor beat him in a Thor comic votes” that completely ignore that while Thor is a 2nd level god (after the Odin and Zeus types) Silver Surfer was created by one of the cornerstone beings of the universe. Not sure how anyone who can do matter manipulation doesn’t win these things if they’re included.

You know, unless they’re facing Dr. Doom. ;-)

Superman!!!!!!
Thor has gotten beat by the Hulk in nearly every battle they’ve had
since the 60’s, so I believe Superman would do the same.
Superman’s weakness to magic isn’t nearly as strong as his weakness to
Kryptonite.
He is vulnerable to magic, but he would find a way around it and kick Thor’s
ass back to Asgardia, so he could get help from his boys the WarriorsThree
for the next time.

P.S. who F@#kin’ cares if its the New 52 Superman, the results will be the same.

People keep bringing up Superman’s speed as a deciding factor but Thor has superspeed, too, he just hardly ever uses it. “Godspeed” (yeah, it’s an actual thing). Much like Superman, the writers rarely have Thor fighting at full potential because there’d be no drama in it. And much like Silver Age Superman, Thor seems able to pull a new power out of his butt whenever needed. (Über “Godblast”, for example).

I give it to Thor. He’s only gotten stronger recently, while Superman’s been paired down significantly.

Glad Batman’s not in the final, but I’d really have rather seen something more unusual, like Wonder Woman vs. Dr. Strange. Oh, well.

I’d love to see the brackets mixed up in a future tournament, with Marvel vs. DC at every stage. There’s never going to be such a mix-up in print ever again, so it would be fun to see here.

Superman has his super strength, high invulnerability, speed, heat vision… does he still have ‘super breath’ that freezes stuff (that never made any sense to me)…

Thor has strength, some invulnerability (without any extra armor layers), and Mjolnir.

Here’s a few thoughts that some folks might not have thought of.

Both can survive indefinitely in a vacuum.
Thor is essentially immortal.
Thor has centuries of battle-hardened combat expertise… he’s not just a thug swinging a hammer… he’s a better fighter (when he wants to be) than Captain America and other highly-trained ‘supers’ like Wolverine and Taskmaster.
Thor has a Belt of Strength and Gauntlets of Power that he can use to increase his damage output to easily rival that of Superman… the hammer at THAT point is simply more icing on the cake.

Then again… Thor’s a vainglorious boob at times… and often has an ego the size of Midgard.

Then again…only ONE of them can lift the hammer.

Supes is tough… easily as tough as the Hulk in terms of how much he can take in terms of punishment… but he’s a bit more vulnerable to lightning – particularly magical lightning… Captain Marvel has bounced a few lightning bolts off of Big Blue to his detriment…

I’d have to hand this one to Thor after watching some ‘Man of Steel’ level of public devastation and city-wide destruction.

Wow, I’ve got my very own copycat….he does realize that Brian can see the email addresses….?

Superman is weak to magic. Thor has magic attacks. Thor wins. Wizard magazine called this in the 90s in a very similar tournament.

The Ebony Leopard

April 7, 2014 at 11:30 am

Magic aside, I’m going Thor just on centuries of battle experience fighting beings who is more powerful than him, which 52 Superman is not. Plus, if the fight goes up into space, Thor would have the advantage since he doesn’t technically have to breath in space it would seem (from AvX)

Superman beat Thor once – off panel – in the JLA/AVENGERS series a decade ago. Superman has fought and defeated Captain Marvel (Shazam) a few times, and Captain Marvel is a magic being. When Superman has fought heavy-weight heroes, the “vulnerability to magic” thing tends to go out the window.

This is last years final.

It is not.

According to Kurt Busiek’s reasoning (and depiction) Superman wins.

As this is now “canon” that makes all subsequent discussions essentially moot.

However, as much as I usually admire Mr. B’s work (which is highly and often), he got this one wrong.

1) Superman doesn’t go for the kill initially. Never. He always assumes his opponent to be weaker than himself because, in the DCU this is usually true. He NEVER goes in full strength on the first attack and, as a result, is pulled up short by characters such as Mongol and Kalibak to name two.

2) Superman is not protected against magic. That means Excalibur can cut him just as deeply and quickly as it would a normal person and it means Mjolnir would crunch his bones just as severely as it would any frost giant’s or, y’know, the Hulk’s.

3) Among other things, as was pointed out upthread, Thor is a war god in addition to being Lord of Storms. He has thousands of years of superior experience to Superman and has, in fact, bested opponents that would give Superman trouble. Superman is NOT, despite the god awful recent film depiction, a GLADIATOR. He is a protector. Much more akin to a Boy Scout than he is to a soldier of any stripe. When all things were equal, Muhammed Ali kicked his butt.

4)Thor will kill, has done so repeatedly, and does not go in at half speed to any fight. While he will up the ante during a battle as needed, he does not consciously hold himself back with worry about breaking his opponents.

5) The storms at Thor’s command are not limited to rain on earth. He can also control cosmic storms.

So.

In the initial battle, it’s not unlikely that Thor wins a decisive smack down in the first few seconds. The longer the fight progresses, the more damage Superman could do but, ultimately, Thor is a God and is a source of magic rather than simply a user of it. People pray to gods to get magic. Gods just are magic.

It’s not a “no contest” battle, but, due to their personalities mores than their power sets, there’s no way Superman finishes on his feet. Knowing Thor, it’s possible he ends it in a coffin.

Thor wins. Sorry Kurt.

Gregory A. Swarthout

April 7, 2014 at 1:15 pm

Superman snaps Thor’s neck within the first microsecond. Fight over.

New 52 superman is weak to magic just as old 52 superman is weak to magic. He is also going up against THOR who has years and years of fighting experience and a magical hammer. If he can somehow someway fight thor minus the hammer than I would say Supes all day but Thor is battle tested and I think his experience trumps Supes this day.

RE: Busiek’s take in JLA/AVENGERS,

A lot of questionable assumptions in that one.

1. Thor fighting stupidly: Note how Thor decided to just wade through Superman’s heat vision attack. No attempt to block the beams with his hammer. No attempt to dodge. Just running right through it.

2. Busiek’s theory of magic: Busiek went with the “Superman has no special vulnerability to magic” theory. Unfortunately, accepting this theory means that you have to believe that vampires have fangs that are powerful enough to puncture adamantium.

@ trajan23:

I’ll take your word for Superman v. Ocean Master as I dropped the nu52 over a year ago for being nearly uniformly terrible. My assumption is that he is basically similar to the entertaining Superman, but without the fashion sense and with an edgy personality for the ’90s.

@ Andrew Knox:

I’d say that Wizard is a shaky source. Here is the description of Asgardians from Marvel.com
(http://marvel.com/universe/Asgardians#ixzz2yFTlyw2i):
nhabiting the Nine Worlds in the other-dimensional Asgardian system are six races of humanoid life forms. Each race is different and intelligent, but the most powerful race is that of the Gods. The Gods are the most human looking and believed to have inhabited Earth at one time only to move to Asgard sometime later. Norsemen and Germanic tribes used to worship the Asgardians nearly a millennium ago and that is why some of the names differ slightly like Wotan instead of Odin. Even though certain Gods are still interested in humanity such as Thor, the Asgardians do not have any more active worshippers or seek to have any …

To me, that reads as though the Asgardians are extra-dimensional beings, like the Qwardians in the old DCU, and not magical beings, like vampires. If that is true, then Superman has a huge edge in Mjölnir is no more likely to hurt him than any other inter-dimensional weapon.

Superman. Half-hour to prepare, and he’s not an idiot. Know what that means?

He goes to a Fortress, picks up a Phantom Zone projector, aims, and the fights over.

Thor has one gear: battle like a crazed Viking. And that’s great for what Thor is, but he isn’t exactly a brain trust. Supes for the win on being able to out think Thor with a half-hour prep.

Questions: Does Ben Grimm have invulnerability to magic? Does the Hulk? Do any of the Wrecking Crew?

People seem to be focusing an awful lot on Superman’s well-documented weakness to magic, but really, aren’t ALL of Marvel’s heroes and villains just as vulnerable? Surely, we’re not meant to assume that ALL of those characters have some inate invulnerability to magic which Superman lacks? Because I gotta say, well-documented weakness or not, if The Hulk can take a blow from Mjolnir and get back up, then so can Superman.

Let’s take magic out of the equation just for a minute. Superman is stronger. He’s faster. He has a more diverse power-set (heat-vision, arctic breathe, etc…). He’s smarter. If it weren’t for the magic thing would this even be a contest? If I published something that says Hulk also has a “weakness to magic,” should that overturn the many thrashings he’s given Thor over the years?

Let me put it this way? Who would win in a fight between Superman & Beta-Ray Bill? Because the later defeated Thor in pretty much this exact set-up in an issue of Walt Simonson’s classic Thor run. And if Thor can’t beat Beta-Ray Bill, he sure as hell ain’t beating Superman.

So, I’m voting for Superman.

Judging from the comments I have a sneaking suspicion that Thor is going to win. Because, as much as the people voting for Thor don’t want to admit it, they’re voting for him because they like him better. Not because he deserves it.

Now wait a minute. We made solid points, not based on who we “like” the best. And Bill “beat” Thor because Odin stacked the deck against his son. Hardly a fair fight.

Who says Superman is smarter? Where is there evidence of that?

If we’re taking magic out, let’s take out all of Superman’s Kryptonian powers.

Muhammed Ali beat him. BATMAN beat him. Hell, Karate Kid could hold his own against “planet mover” Superman and he has NO POWERS. That’s with super speed in the mix.

Superman is only the best on DCU Earth (and there’s some doubt about that with the Martian Manhunter around) because everyone else is so much weaker. Thor spent thousands of years battling mythological creatures as powerful or stronger than himself and winning.

It would be a fight, no doubt, but not a long one.

Willie Everstop

April 7, 2014 at 7:50 pm

Superman could kiss Thor and make him forget about his centuries of experience.

LouReedRichards

April 7, 2014 at 8:35 pm

“Thor spent thousands of years battling mythological creatures as powerful or stronger than himself and winning.”

This to me is the heart of the matter, not the magic, superspeed , 30 minutes prep time or any other factor.
That’s why I went with Thor. Even with his Kryptonian brain power I don’t see Superman’s experience (esp. new 52 Superman) as being anywhere close to Thor’s. Unless, as Willie Everstop pointed out , Supes slips him some tongue.

@ Superasente
Just because someone casts a vote for a character you didn’t doesn’t mean that it’s strictly because they like that character more than the other. I voted for Dr. Strange several times, and I don’t really give two shits about the good Dr. and that’s just one of several examples I could name.

@ M-Wolverine
“You know, unless they’re facing Dr. Doom. ;-)”
I knew I could count on you to see the real and true “Victor” of the tournament.

At least we can admit a temporary setback with some small amount of dignity and honor, just as our beloved master would want.

Didn’t Supes pushed Earth back into position when it moved far from the sun? I can’t recall the issue where it happened, though.

But if this is THE NEW 52 Supes, he will be beaten by Thor. He’s like a Wildstorm/Extreme Studios/Maximum Press/Awesome Comics version of the Post-Crisis Superman. An inferior substitute.

Superboy Prime will have an easy win over the New 52 Supes.

A good match will be Kingdome Come Superman VS Thor.

Geoff Thorne: Just because Superman has been beaten in mismatched battles in the past doesn’t mean he’s incapable of taking this particular victory. By that logic Squirell Girl should’ve been a contender because she out-karated Wolverine that one time in New Avengers. Publishers often pit certain characters against the big guns as a way of showing how tough they are by contrast. I suspect I could put together one hell of a list for Batman; that doesn’t mean half those idiots would get 49% of the vote in a fight against Superman.

My point is this: Superman is inherently tough. Just like Hulk. If one can take a hit from Thor’s hammer then they both can. The only reason Superman has a pre-established weakness to magic that needs addressed at all is because the character was in sore need of one. If marvel heroes like the Hulk weren’t already so flawed – if they were also like a pantheon of new perfect gods – you can bet your ass they’d all have preconceived and well-established weaknesses also.

LouReedRichards is the best internet name ever.

Superman has been beaten by superior fighters was the point. The battles weren’t “mismatched.”

He has been outfought and out thought by opponents both stronger and weaker than himself or Thor.

As soon Thor realized what he was up against he would kill Superman. Superman, by contrast, (and despite the moronic writing in the recent film) would never go that far.

Contests between Thor and the Hulk mostly end in a draw, not a loss for Thor. And since Doomsday, a Hulk knockoff, was able to kill Superman, it stands to reason Thor should be able to as well. And, more to the point, a I said, Thor WILL kill an opponent without hand wringing or soul searching. Just because it’s necessary.

Their codes are different. Superman loses.

huh, geoff but Superman KILLED Doomsday as well :)

And Geoff, Doomsday would kick Hulks ass.

2. Busiek’s theory of magic: Busiek went with the “Superman has no special vulnerability to magic” theory. Unfortunately, accepting this theory means that you have to believe that vampires have fangs that are powerful enough to puncture adamantium.

Or that the teeth are enchanted to be able to cut anyone regardless of how tough they were (which would also work on Hulk, Silver Surfer etc).

Or that John Byrne got it wrong.

The same applies to Mjolnir and the lightning. If they are enchanted to do damage then they’ll do damage to any tough hero – including Superman. If they’re just enchanted to hit really hard then Superman’s invulnerability will protect him – just like with any tough hero.

Based on their 2013 movies, I’m voting for the alien in a red cape who defended Earth against another alien who had previously clashed with the hero’s family.

Smokescreen:”Superman. Half-hour to prepare, and he’s not an idiot. Know what that means?

He goes to a Fortress, picks up a Phantom Zone projector, aims, and the fights over.”

Problems:

1. Does the New52 Superman have a Phantom Zone Projector?

2. Mjolnir has the power to transport Thor through dimensions. So, Thor would use Mjolnir to escape the Phantom Zone.

Dean Hacker:”To me, that reads as though the Asgardians are extra-dimensional beings, like the Qwardians in the old DCU, and not magical beings, like vampires. If that is true, then Superman has a huge edge in Mjölnir is no more likely to hurt him than any other inter-dimensional weapon.”

Mjolnir has consistently been characterized as a magical, not scientific, weapon.

Thor has access to a vast arsenal of magical weaponry against which Superman is as vulnerable as a regular human. What does the current Superman have?

Thor is not an idiot. He can easily summon storms so vast they will cloud the sky for days and cut Superman off the source of his power. Or he can just teleport them to somewhere a yellow sun doesn’t shine and get Superman to run out of gas.

The battles between Thor and Hulk usually end in a draw/tie, otherwise Thor is the only character that I’ve seen to actually KO Hulk using just brute force (no, Sue Storm doesn’t count, even if she prints out the cards “Susan Storm, once knocked out the Hulk”). As was analysed by several characters, a full out battle between Hulk and Thor would take years, after which Hulk would start to age, while Thor wouldn’t and would ultimately win.

Thor entering the Warrior Madness can easily equal the enraged Hulk. He doesn’t do it, because he hates it and he knows how much devastation he would wrought. But faced with an opponent he would need it against, he would.

Superman has been hit by opponents slower than Thor. He has been bested by fighters that are less powerful, but more skilled than him. Thor has actual millennia of experience fighting and killing different alien, magical and super powered creatures, much more than anybody Superman has ever faced. Finally when it goes tough, Thor will pull out all the stops. Superman won’t.

The current Superman has never fought anybody as powerful or experienced, so comparing it as to how the E-2 Superman or the Kingdom Come Superman or the Superman that killed Doomsday would’ve fared is moot. Based on the evidence from comic books the current Thor smokes the current Superman.

And the rules explicitly state that it’s the current New 52 Superman, not any older/alternate version.

It’s over now, but geoff thorne keeps saying Thor would just kill Superman, but the whole Tournament has been not to death battles. So that doesn’t factor in at all, how ruthless they are.

it’s a factor in how they fight.

Thor has access to a vast arsenal of magical weaponry against which Superman is as vulnerable as a regular human. What does the current Superman have?

Superman isn’t as vulnerable to them as a regular human.

Except it’s not a factor in how they fight. Because Thor is going into the fight not intending to kill Superman, because that’s how the rules were set up. It can’t be “he’s going to try and kill him, but at the last minute doesn’t swing the killing blow.” It’d be like saying someone in an MMA fight has the advantage because he’s really good at breaking people’s necks….even though he can’t do it in the fight.

That was only the most basic error you made. The idea that only Superman and not Thor has never had a hard time with loser opponents; that generally Superman has been portrayed as anywhere from smart to super smart, while Thor has been portray as anywhere from normally intelligent to a bit of a dunce; and the idea that everyone is so much weaker compared to Supes in the DC universe, where traditionally DC’s characters have all been over powered (much more often doing things like “moving planets”) where Marvel’s strength limit has always hung around 100 tons.

I don’t even like Superman, but certainly don’t think it’s that cut and dried either way.

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