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She Has No Head! – Zen Has Officially Left The Building

Last week I opted to talk about the awesomeness that was the new Lumberjanes Equal Signcomic instead of the disgusting madness surrounding a well-reasoned critical piece written by former DC Editor Janelle Asselin about a comic book cover. Frequent commenter Dean Hacker called me Zen. We all had a good chuckle.

Apparently you cats DO. NOT. WANT. ME. TO. BE. ZEN.

Because the world and it’s worst denizens have made it impossible to be Zen with the continued onslaught of sexist bullshit.  Absolutely deplorable behavior in the wake of Asselin’s article – and when I say deplorable behavior – I mean things that run the gamut from the appalling posting of a woman’s picture in forums so that she can be further objectified to the alarming yet highly common and terrifying rape threats, to people trying to hack into bank accounts, which…good god man!  And all of this because a woman didn’t like a comic book cover you liked. We also had last week, amidst this storm,  a sexist t-shirt telling women to get their ladybits out of men’s comics.

Here’s a peek:

Fangirl Hate Shirt(sidebar: I wrote this piece last Tuesday as I’m out of town, but yes, I saw the follow up on this shirt from the t-shirt company. It’s still a “shit shirt” [patent pending on that term?] and while I don’t like the shirt with the genders reversed either, the truth is that one [hating men] is basically an aberration in comics and thus relatively harmless, if annoying, while the hating women shirt pictured [and highly profiled on the site] is indicative of a deep sexist problem in our community, a community that has a lot of problems with sexism and women feeling safe and welcomed…so let’s have some context there and not act like we don’t know the world we live in, okay? This “OMG! Double Standards!” makes you look SUPER EXTRA DOUCHE-Y, guys. That said, I am not calling for t-shirt makers to be strung up or shirts banned, [nor have I seen anyone else do so] they have the right to print whatever stupid shirt they want, the same way that others have the right to respond to said “shit shirt” in the form of op-eds – why people continue to miss this part of the whole “it’s a free country” thing is beyond me.)

ANYWAY, the good news is there’s already an awesome “answer” T-shirt by comics colorist Jordie Bellaire and Steven Finch, so once it’s officially released, demand your stores (and such) stock that puppy, and vote with your dollars…and your chests?

Comics Are For Everyone Shirt

Anyway, it was seeing this fantastic shirt, and reading excellent pieces by Greg Rucka and Jill Pantozzi in the aftermath of this newest sexist bullshit that made me feel like I had to jump into the pool. Both pieces are wonderful, and if you haven’t already read them, make a point of it.

My heart swells especially at Rucka’s piece, since he’s not actually a journalist (as Pantozzi is) and is not a woman. We need more and more of our allies – which I believe are the vast majority of the comics creating and comics reading community to begin taking public stands. I can’t do better than Andy Khouri’s exceptional and passionate piece on Comics Alliance that includes a plea to men to begin standing up to this inappropriate behavior in every walk of life. Greg Rucka can’t just man the dude side of the public ship all by himself, guys.

But it’s not just men that need to speak up and stand out, make their affiliations know, it’s women too. It’s all of us that need to come together to stamp out bad sexist antiquated behavior unworthy of us all and our industry. It holds all of us back. I’m a huge fan of Andrew Garfield. I think he’s a fantastic actor and though I don’t know him personally, he seems like a hell of a guy, but good on Emma Stone, for calling him out recently when he made some likely innocent but wrongheaded comments on gender.

I don’t believe Garfield is sexist, I think he probably just hasn’t spent a ton of time in his life worrying about gender roles. He probably also hasn’t been challenged on these issues. Some may think that it would have been better for Stone to be polite and not challenge and potentially embarrass him in public, to pull him aside after and ask him what he meant and explain what is wrong about it, but he is SPIDER-MAN talking to a huge audience of CHILDREN. An audience of young boys and girls who IDOLIZE him, not just as a superstar but as a superHERO. If Spider-man thinks that sewing is “feminine” and “for girls” then a lot of kids are going to as well. It’s problematic for him to – accidentally or otherwise – indoctrinate them as to what is acceptable when it comes to feminine and masculine types/behaviors/activities/etc.

Again, a harmless mistake on his part, but one Stone was dead right to call him out on, and I suspect that Garfield is man enough to agree to that after the fact. Understanding what he was saying to all those kids, and what effect it might have had if left unchallenged, I think he would (and maybe he will publicly if asked about it?) agree that he simply misspoke and she was right to call him out, to address the mistake immediately so that even if it wasn’t completely corrected, the kids could see that his OPINION was not FACT.

None of us are perfect. We’re all absolutely fallible. We come to the table with our own prejudices and blind spots and in many cases what we come to the table with is made worse by our experiences and environments, both those we choose to put ourselves in and those we do not. We all have privilege. The educated person, the civilized person, the BEST person, is not afraid to admit to those blind spots, confront those privileges and learn from them to become even better.

That all sounds rather positive, and encouraging, doesn’t it?

Yeah, but I’m not that Zen today, I wish I was, but today is not that day. So today I’d like to end with a direct response to this absolute nonsense left for Janelle Asselin in her survey (and first published by Khouri with her permission in his piece):

“Women in comics are the deviation, the invading body, the cancer. We are the cure, the norm, the natural order. All you are is a pair of halfway decent tits, a c*nt and a loud mouth. But see, it doesn’t matter how loud you get. It doesn’t matter how many of your lezbo tumblr and twitter fangirl friends agree with you and reinforce your views. You can be all “I’m not going to be silent about misogyny so f*ck you!” all you want. In the end all you are is a pathetic little girl trying to effect change and failing to make a dent. You might as well try to drain the ocean of fish. That’s the kind of battle you face with people like me. We won’t quit. We won’t stop attacking. We won’t give up. Ever.”

Here’s my very public response to that – published under my own name and not cloaked in the cowardice of Internet anonymity and not intended for anyone except people that share the cowardly and disgusting views on display in the above:

Sir, it’s YOU in comics that is the deviation, the invading body, the cancer. You look around and you see more that look like you — likely straight, white, and male – but you cannot see inside them. You assume they are like you inside, but they’re not and one by one they are slowly joining our cause in part because you have made the alternative option so disgusting that they can no longer sit idly by. Many of them didn’t really want to get involved (hell, I hear that, neither did I), but when faced with the disgusting alternative – that the loud minority will proclaim this battle already over and count the silent majority among its grotesque numbers – they’re being forced to speak up.

Our cause – one of simple equality – is joined daily by comics creators and readers everywhere. The aberration is the creator that says, “No, I have no interest in equality. That’s not for me.”

You see, the cancer is inside YOU. You are broken and wrong. You are filled with hate and sadness, and the core messages of our superheroes are long ago lost on your cold dead heart that seeks only to destroy that which you don’t bother to understand.

If women were the only ones standing up and demanding equality – if those of us with tits, cunts, and loud mouths (nothing wrong with those things, son, though you try to use them as insults) were the only ones standing up, you might be right – we might eventually be defeated. But we cannot be defeated because we are not alone. We have an army of good people of all genders, races, religions, and sexual orientations standing with us – including many of the likely straight white males that you mistakenly think are on your side. You are very very loud, but we are LEGION.

It doesn’t matter if you never stop attacking, if you never give up. We will simply DROWN YOU THE FUCK OUT. We will drown you out until all that you have is your tiny dark little hole in which you can try to pretend you matter. We will drown you out with the work we create, the community we build, the diversity we encourage, the variety we celebrate, and the simple fact that the only constant in life is change.

Fight it all you like, it won’t matter. The world was once full of dinosaurs like you that refused to accept the simple facts of change. But nobody is very afraid of dinosaurs any more.

So bring it, yo. We’re not worried. We’re just getting started.

 

48 Comments

Hacking bank accounts? Man, fuck this planet.

You know, “the natural order” is one of those expressions that sets off any sane person’s alarms. Whenever someone throws those words around, you just know you’re dealing with some real piece of work that may well be into fascist or fundamentalist territory.

What kind of crazy asshole doesn’t want girls to read comics? The worst kind.

People tend to hang onto dying ideology as tightly as they can because they cannot adapt, they cannot broaden their philosophy and open their minds. I definitely agree with the original criticism, but my first reaction to the cover was “why did they have to give her a pink lasso with glittery stars all over it?” Can’t women also be strong, bad-asses?

I find that it is difficult enough to truly find your self, let alone be you in an environment where everyone is attacking you for who you are. I don’t think people should ever have to defend themselves for being, unless their actions are bad. How can we mistreat such a vital (not to mention majority) segment of our population? The old ways are dying, fortunately, but some have worked so hard to indoctrinate the coming generations with such a reactionary attitude toward the world. And that is a true shame.

Great article, thanks.

@kelly I stand, in my white male heterosexual body, right where I always have, by yours and every other “real” reasonable Comics fan (loyal to the best medium ever). We are LEGION. And NO, I won’t shut up about it.

“You see, the cancer is inside YOU. You are broken and wrong. You are filled with hate and sadness, and the core messages of our superheroes are long ago lost on your cold dead heart that seeks only to destroy that which you don’t bother to understand.”

This is the greatest thing I have ever read.

I am a white male, and I agree with everything said in this article.

“Sir, it’s YOU in comics that is the deviation, the invading body, the cancer. You look around and you see more that look like you — likely straight, white, and male – but you cannot see inside them. You assume they are like you inside, but they’re not and one by one they are slowly joining our cause in part because you have made the alternative option so disgusting that they can no longer sit idly by. Many of them didn’t really want to get involved (hell, I hear that, neither did I), but when faced with the disgusting alternative – that the loud minority will proclaim this battle already over and count the silent majority among its grotesque numbers – they’re being forced to speak up.”

I think you hit the nail right on the head with that paragraph, Kelly. The vile misogyny and bigotry by what I dare to hope is a very vocal (and often anonymous) minority has gotten so extreme over the past few weeks that straight white male comic fans can’t really afford to be a silent majority anymore. Doing nothing about this is no longer an option.

Of course, it’s not like the sexism and the harassment is new, and anybody that’s been paying attention knows that it’s been a problem for some time. But it does seem to have reached a boiling point lately. Hopefully that actually leads to change.

My niece is a HUGE comic book fan and I am so glad that at her tender age of 11 that she hasn’t experienced any sexism yet from either boys or girls. Yes, I say girls because one of her other aunts have openly implied (not to her but us adults) that comics, Walking Dead, Monster High..ect isn’t lady like. That’s very frustrating because other women, especially older ones, should be encouraging her to enjoy whatever she wants. I was so proud when she showed me a little comic she made and I told her so.

What I can’t even begin to fathom is how this assholes live their everyday lives. Do they treat everyone they see in real life like this too? Do they have no mother, no sisters, no female friends, no girlfriends? Or are they just as pathetic as I imagine them, crying in a corner because they know they’re worthless and nobody likes them? It’s getting to the point where it gets hard to admit that, yes, I’m in the dominant group, being a heterosexual man, descendant of europeans. Because I feel disgusted to even think that I share something with this little idiots, this ugly beasts, that seem unaware of anything outside themselves. I think of my lover, my mother, my sister, think of all the women I know and all there are, and it makes me sick to think they have to deal with this every day.

And I’m afraid that maybe there aren’t as few of these bastards as we think, because if the mainstream books are catered to them, then that means this sexist crap sells. That means that maybe they’re are not as few as we’d like to think.

As long as we’re talking about this again, I’m going to put in another plug for We Are Comics that was created as a direct response to this. In case anyone missed me yelling at people about this yesterday.

Amen, Kelly. Amen.

I’m sorry, what about that person’s comment makes you think they must be white?

Have to say, I am kinda excited about the return of Battlin’ Kelly Thompson.

Just so that I understand which stereotypes are okay, and which aren’t…

Imbecilic misogynist = must be white (OKAY?)
Sewing = feminine (NOT OKAY?)

Thank god you’re here, MonikerNV. Who would protect the white man without you?

Seriously, though. I think you’re missing the point. Deliberately, I might add.

I also want to say that I’m glad people are talking about this. For the longest time, I had no idea what kind of issues this industry has. If nobody said anything, I wouldn’t be aware of the problems and I certainly wouldn’t know what to look for. Yes, it’s hard enough being a white heterosexual male, but I don’t have roadblocks built in to the system that other people do. I’m glad I can see these roadblocks now and I will point them out in the future.

+1 Straight, while, comic book reading male who is NOT happy with the kind of bullshit these trolls and douchebags have been spewing. How can my white, bisexual, comic book reading wife’s enjoyment of her comic books (not limited to My Little Pony, as much as these fools would like to assume) have affect them in any way? How does inclusiveness, and equality, actually make things worse? I cannot fathom, to be honest, how a more accurate depiction of women – you know, the other 50% of the world’s population of HUMAN BEINGS – and an enlarged audience pouring money into the industry can be BAD? These awful scumbags are going to kill their own hobby, if they get their way. Comics NEED bigger audiences. It will die without them (or at least become very, very small and drastically different to what we have today) so why not let EVERYONE spend money on comics?! But no, we should LIMIT the readership to only straight, white men! And all the characters should reflect this audience by being straight, white men too, with little or no regard to women! That’ll show that girl in high school fifteen years ago that I’m not just a fat, ignorant, sexist piece of filth! I wish we could move on and just ignore them, but they make themselves so vile, so abhorrent, so damaging and so malignant, that they must be cut out, yes, like the cancer Kelly spoke of. Fuck you, you mouth breathing, basement dwelling troglodytes. Grow up, grow a pair, and learn to play nice, or go piss in a corner with all your sad, little friends.

I mentioned this elsewhere…. Twitter maybe. The company has repeatedly stated that there was an alternative anti-male shirt on display. I never saw one when I took the original picture – neither did anyone I was with when we were all pointing at it and discussing it. There may have been. Maybe it was even in plain sight and we all somehow missed it. So I cannot honestly say that this anti-fanboy shirt wasn’t on display with certainty. But… I suspect it was not, or that it was buried in the back with all the copyright infringing superhero shirts the company had up for offer.

And yeah, it’s pretty tone deaf to suggest that an anti-male shirt is somehow the equivalent to an anti-female shirt. Both are pretty awful in my opinion. But they are not equal in any way because they do not exist in equal environments. Comics fandom can be a pretty elitist and awful place for men, but it is all that for women as well. And as men, at least we do not (generally) have to endure having our tastes and knowledge questioned and dismissed just because of our gender. We are not automatically the target of threats of sexual violence.

I received a snarky tweet from a co-creator of the shirt (how many people were needed in thinking that “gag” up anyway?). The co-creator dismissed criticism of the shirt because she is a woman (which somehow makes her non-guilty of hating on women?). She then proudly displayed her “Death to all Fangirls” shirt.

I ignored her. She was not worth the attention. None of these people are, really.

Am I the only one who had Bush’s Everything Zen stuck in their heads while reading this. Also, to keep things in the theme of the post and 90s alt rock:

I like my sexist fanboys the way I like my Bush songs.

I hate Bush.

Dang right! Few things are as sweet as pure, righteous fury. The behaviour on display in the recent weeks has been absolutely putrid and deplorable; this is exactly why I don’t tell people right away I read comics. Because it’s so easy to jump to the conclusion that therefore I must be an immature dude who gets disproportionately angry over fictional characters, and a disregard for women and non-white people; see the response to the new Flash this week.
Yeah I might be just another straight, white, cis male dude but I’m no longer going to be silent, lest these idiots think I’m not speaking up because I’m silently agreeing with them. Can’t wait for these dudes to wake up one day and realise that comics are for everyone.

Kelly that comment left for Janelle sounds like our friend John Vargas aka Grant Watson aka Vantine Carter. Seems he still has his issues with girl cooties. Poor baby.

Fuck being Zen.
Rattle the fucking sexist idiots’ brain cages!

@Moniker LV:

You gotta learn to read more carefully. All the words are there for a reason, including the word LIKELY in front of straight, white, male. Originally, I didn’t use it later in the piece because I’d already said it, but I’ve added it to the second instance just so special folks like you won’t try to deliberately misunderstand things.

Gotta say, if that’s the one comment you have for a 1500 word piece about a lot of serious issues, I think you’re missing the big picture, likely (there it is again!) deliberately. Good times!

All that said, yes, odds are the guy that wrote that comment is a straight, white, male. The demographics of our industry skew largely in that direction, as I’m sure you know, so odds are that is what category he falls into. Also, people in the minority (and women, who oddly aren’t a minority but are often treated as one) are less likely to be asshat exclusionists because having faced discrimination and similar nonsense they’re less likely to perpetrate it on others. Do they do it, sure, but it’s less likely. So odds are in our favor – heavily – that this comment was left by a straight, white, male. But I suspect all of this is lost on you,

The most insane thing about this whole thing (except for absolutely everything about it) is that this was over an article criticising the cover of Teen Titans. This is a comic about teenagers but mostly read by an adult audience (kind of weird in itself) that has been pretty consistently terrible for decades and no one ever seems to like. Why is this something worth going crazy about?? It’s kind of like the insane reaction people had about the alternate cover to that Powerpuff Girls comic being pulled.

How do you even function in society if these are the things sending you into wild sexist rage blackouts??

“I think he probably just hasn’t spent a ton of time in his life worrying about gender roles.”

I think this sums up things for alot of men. We recognize when there’s a problem but don’t really speak out against it because at certain point in life, we feel like it’s not “our fight”. I’ve been married for 6 years and have a 3 year-old daughter and I know that it is my fight because I want my daughter to enjoy comics when she gets older and not feel like she’s being excluded. I still don’t see it in my day to day life because my LCS has alot of female customers but I’ve talked to a couple of the ladies I know about this subject and while they don’t see the hostility that we’ve witnessed in the case of Janelle Asselin, there’s been varying degrees of discomfort when they’ve gone to conventions. I know I have to do my part to make sure that message of the second t-shirt is taken literally.

Captain Great,
I think it’s the nature of the Raging Fanboy. It takes the good natured arguing that comic book fans do (“I like Claremont,” “He sucks I like Morrison”) and takes it in a dangerous direction (“I like the way Frank Cho draws Scarlett Witch and this undereducated/non-fan/feminist woman who obviously hates the Scarlett Witch has the nerve to critique his art. She’s critiquing what I like but she’s just jealous! How dare she!”). There were some whose kneejerk reaction was to blast Janelle Asselin because she dared to criticize what they like. There were some who don’t feel that a female should have a say as to how a superhero comic book should be drawn. There were some trolls who just felt like pleasuring themselves by posting nasty stuff. And there were those socially inept people who don’t know how to hold a conversation with a real person much less know how to write in a forum. There’s all sorts of wrong with people who atrack someone for an opinion.

Topic Aside, is this language usage standard for CBR now? Should I be advising my nephew and kids that they should be careful on the very colourful, young-skewing look of this comic book website?

I guess so, since we’ve been using this language for years now.

To all those men who are actually speaking up and speaking out against this kind of behavior in other men: you need to realize and pass on the idea that it’s not about being dragged reluctantly into doing your duty to humanity (as some men see it); instead, it’s about becoming leaders—choosing to become the person who sets the standard, who lives qualities you want people to live up to. Some of you already see it that way, but there are a lot more who haven’t realized this yet… and they really need to know it. This video explains very well the need for men to step up and lead among other men:

“Violence against women—it’s a men’s issue: Jackson Katz”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTvSfeCRxe8

Damn, Rucka kicks ass in that essay.

Topic Aside, is this language usage standard for CBR now? Should I be advising my nephew and kids that they should be careful on the very colourful, young-skewing look of this comic book website?

Yeah, Jonah told us six or seven years ago to quit worrying about it. We were killing ourselves trying to moderate language on the boards and try to set some kind of standard and the boss finally ruled it wasn’t worth bothering about in a world where most kids are exposed to HBO and Cinemax by the time they’re nine years old, and we should trust people to look after their own kids.

So yeah, if you’re worried about yours, you might want to supervise their internet time here, I guess, although I don’t think the foul language here usually rises to the level of this particular piece. I suspect Kelly had a specific point in mind, same as I did in Sunday’s piece– meeting your opponents where they are, with equal force.

What kinda bugs me is that the ‘celebrate women in comics’ attitude seems to more and more fetishized, to the extent where I can scarcely say to my female retailer that I don’t like so-and-so female writer’s books without giving the impression that that results from me being a sexist, which I’m not.

Take for instance the term ‘neckbeard.’ A common derogatory term for slovenly male comics fans. It’s a universally acceptable term to describe a common stereotype, like Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons. So where’s the acceptable female derisive term? There isn’t one, and they’re won’t ever be one because anything less than absolute positive support of females in comics is unacceptable in polite company. And I’m not suggesting, like, that I *want* that, I just frankly do not like what feels like a mental tyranny towards celebrating females despite their possibly being mediocre artists, or slovenly fans.

Personally, I love the work of many many females, I love Kelly’s essays, and certainly do not side with infamous internet troll quoted above. It’s just that I have the sense that me proclaiming to #iamcomics that I’m anti-feminist, but fully support women earning equal rights, pay, and support proportionate to her quality of effort isn’t really what anybody wants to hear. I don’t think that, as a famous writer put it the other day, that the purpose of fiction is creating community. But that idea definitely seems to be driving the course the recent uproar has caused. And as Kelly puts it, WE WILL DROWN OUT those who fail to subscribe to what I see as groupthink.

Anyway, Kelly, I agree with the sentiment that there’s no place for these grotesque individuals who comment so vilely, but I’m weary of the unspoken thoughts behind my retailer’s eyes when first I openly criticize so-and-so’s universally acclaimed book, and then just keep my head down for fear of ever again tip-toeing near the abyss of criticizing females.

But I totally love the new Ms. Marvel book lol. Sincerely. Okay, hope this didn’t come off as rude or anything :)

Thanks Brian; that’s a shame, though. You think Jonah would at least put a strong language advisory on an article or something. I wouldn’t mind my kids and nieces and nephews reading up on comics, but I suppose I’ll just have to keep them away from CBR.

@Dave

If you support equal rights why on earth would you call yourself anti-feminist?

Yes, if you think women and men should have equal rights, then you are basically a feminist.

Neckbeard is more of a derogatory term for male nerds in general, not specific to comic book fans, right?

On the subject of Asselin’s essay being “well reasoned”–

Though I concur with all the above sentiments regarding the unacceptability and unjustifiable nature of the threats to Asselin, I think the construction of her argument is confused:

“The problem is not that she’s a teen girl with large breasts, because those certainly exist. The main problem is that this is not the natural chest of a large-breasted woman. Those are implants. On a teenaged superheroine.”

So are we to suppose from these sentences that Asselin would be totally OK with the cover if it had simply been an accurate rendering of “a teen girl with large breasts?” Sorry, I think that had the cover been drawn with all the accuracy of the best Adam Hughes, many female critics– including Asselin– would still have problems with sexualizing an “underaged teen girl”– though on a side point, I don’t know that most TITANS fans could tell you whether or not Wonder Girl is under the age of consent or not, given the frequent fluctuations of comics-book continuity.

Gene –

I don’t know about Asselin, and I am not female, though I’d consider myself a liberal and supportive of feminism.

I like Adam Hughes, Alan Davis, and even Frank Cho. Their sexy women look like well-proportioned goddesses, and at least with the first two, the women look like they’re enjoying themselves. Alan Davis also is great at depicting different body types.

The Rocafort cover, however, has Wonder Girl looking like a plastic sex doll, not a woman, not an (idealized) goddess, but plastic with obviously fake breasts. It’s the Image style of female characters.

I don’t like the style, for a variety of reasons. I don’t know that Adam Hughes is an example of feminism, but there is more life and fun in his art.

@Kelly: Because feminism is unfortunately being co-opted by an increasingly extremist perspective who think that equality equals infallibility. Whether it’s criticizing the work of a female writer or daring to disagree with one on Twitter, you will get shouted down as a sexist pig, as the people so devoutly against sexism practice it freely themselves.

The idea that those who suffer inequality will avoid inflicting it on others is laughable. Ask the gay men and women in California how they felt when Prop 8 was voted in through strong support from the African American religious community…on the very night the country turned a major corner and elected its first African American President.

@Rene: You mean like how “Fanboy” is aimed at obnoxious zealots and has nothing to do with misandry?

I’ve actually never encountered “neckbeard” in reference to comic book fans. I’ve only heard it as an indie-rock hipster thing.

@Tom –

What do you mean?

I don’t think “fanboy” has any connotations of man-hating.

@Tom:
There are always going to be outliers. Ridiculous to throw the baby out with the bathwater on the word feminism. There are many versions of feminism and every feminist naturally views it a bit differently – we’re all people – not a freaking hive mind – but at its core feminism is about equality. Use your dictionary, this is what it says. And if you say you’re a feminist and people question you on it, the answer is simple. “I believe in equality.” There, you’re done, that wasn’t so complicated, now was it.. To call your self anti-feminist because you perceive it will align you with random extremists is ridiculous. And by the way, who do you think someone calling themselves ANTI-FEMINISTS aligns themselves with? Yeah, I bet that’s an awesome and inclusive group, no zealots or extremists in THAT group. *eyeroll*

While you’re at it you might want to stop calling yourself human and a whole host of other things I’m sure you don’t think twice about.

Also, try reading again a bit more closely. I never said people who have suffered will not visit suffering on others. I would never say anything so ridiculous or absolute. I said, playing the odds, it’s likely the comment came from a straight white male for a whole bunch of reasons.

Tom –

I’ve criticized female writers in the Internet often enough. I’m not in love with Gail Simone’s Wonder Woman like everyone else seems to be. I thought it bland and weird, where others saw something brilliant. No one called me a sexist pig or shouted me down just for that.

A lot of people that see “extremism” in modern feminism seem to think feminists today still are like the more extreme examples of the 1970s. Radicals who think lesbianism is the only way and all straight sex is rape seems to be the favorite caricature. I don’t know how I keep missing those man-hating harpies people keep complaining about.

In fact, whenever I actually read the person’s words that guys keep complaining about, it seems the “man-hating harpy” is just saying stuff that is completely common sense to me, such as no one deserve to be raped just because their clothes are skimpy. Somehow, those words get mentally translated, in some guys’ minds, as “she is saying all men are potential rapists!”

As for Prop 8 and California, I totally agree with you. It’s not only white people that can be mysogynist. Hell, if we look at total numbers, I’d even say that most mysoginist guys in the world are not white. However, when we talk comic book superhero fans, then I agree with Kelly that the repulsive troll whose response she features is very likely white.

I prefer if you were Zen. I understand some of the anger on from what misogynists have said and done, though the t-shirt and what Andrew Garfriend said were rather weak and stupid than offensive, but stooping to their level isn’t the answer. Calling people “cancer” and using foul language isn’t going to convince anyone, it’s just making loud noises. I used to be a feminist, now I wouldn’t call myself an anti-feminist, but this new wave of feminists we have got today are a pale in comparison to the feminists of yesteryear. Feminists like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvYyGTmcP80 are not helping the cause. I feel having clear rational arguments and level-headed discussions are the way to win minds than shouting and using obscenity. Just my opinion.

You’ll often find that the people who get the most out of the system are the squeakiest wheels. While it might be grating for some to hear, many people that otherwise wouldn’t be involved might be influenced if what they hear is loud enough. This is why people can have horrible things to say and somehow gain a audience. They’re just that loud. The language may sometimes be harsh, but considering the alternative, it’s justified. I view this as a basic human rights issue. Those that see it as a difference of opinion aren’t seeing the big picture and just need to wake up.

There’s a horrible lack of comics by, starring, and marketed towards women. Im not even sure that’s an opinion question, it just is. But, both sides of this kerfuffle are guilty of lumping people into groups on either side of a battle line, and making broad asumptions based on a demographic. An individual wrote that comment above (although I’m skeptical it may be a false flag attack), not a group.

So, there’s no need to launch a retaliatory attack on heterosexual white males. They don’t have the monopoly on racism or sexism. One guy said something to get your collective goat, not an establishment. You may just be alienating the individuals who agree with your views on equality, but see hate and venom begetting nothing but more hate and venom.

@MonikerNV:

You act as if that comment above is an outlier. It’s not, gods do I wish it was, but it’s not. It’s a pervasive and disgusting and far too common attitude in comics. it might be one guy’s words, but it represents a very loud and aggressive minority that is not opposed to threatening people to make them be quiet. If that’s the first time I’d ever seen a comment like that maybe I could be all calm like you and act like it wasn’t a big deal. But I have seen a metric ton of shit in the years since I started writing this column. So, no, I don’t see the comment as one individual’s opinion.

I’m not after heterosexual white males and if you read the piece and paid attention and didn’t want to shove words and ideas in my mouth to suit your own needs, you’d recognize that. But you don’t. You want to pull apart a tiny part of something to undo a positive thing others are working on in the hopes of making things better. My father, boyfriend, brothers, and many of my friends are all heterosexual white males. I have exactly ZERO problems with heterosexual white males, in fact, they are some of my favorite people EVER. But they don’t agree with the vocal angry minority that wants to threaten, attack, dismiss, and destroy lives over COMIC BOOKS. People that want to do that are 100% worthy of my retaliation.

I’ve tried to be nice and quiet, to be positive and polite. It didn’t do shit. So we’re going to go back to this. If it alienates some thin skinned people then so be it. I probably wasn’t going to be for them anyway, so better they discover that now.

Sounds like you may be among them. Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

The Seventh Gun

May 5, 2014 at 1:42 pm

Lady, I’ve already thought the world of you, but after reading your write-up, my respect shot-up 1 million-fold. Count THIS GUY as part of your army against jerks like that guy you post on toward the end. Bravo!

With you all the way Kelly! Go!

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