web stats

CSBG Archive

Comic Book Legends Revealed #563

1 2 3
Next »

Welcome to the five hundred and sixty-second in a series of examinations of comic book legends and whether they are true or false. Click here for an archive of the first five hundred (I actually haven’t been able to update it in a while). This week, is Marvel sitting on a “Deadpool Almost Destroys the Marvel Universe” one-shot? Did Marvel do a Green Goblin comic book about Rob Liefeld leaving Image? And did Mike Grell intentionally create a lame superhero for DC’s Bloodlines Annual?

Let’s begin!

NOTE: The column is on three pages, a page for each legend. There’s a little “next” button on the top of the page and the bottom of the page to take you to the next page (and you can navigate between each page by just clicking on the little 1, 2 and 3 on the top and the bottom, as well).

COMIC LEGEND: Marvel has a finished and unpublished Deadpool Almost Destroys the Marvel Universe one-shot.

STATUS: True

Deadpool the film is smashing all sorts of movie box office records, even as we speak. The character is a sales bonanza right now. So it is interesting to note that Marvel is actually sitting on a completed Deadpool story where he almost destroys the Marvel Universe!

A few years back, Marvel put out a well-received Deadpool mini-series by Cullen Bunn and Dalibor Talajic (with stunning Kaare Andrews’ covers) about Deadpool killing the Marvel Universe…

deadpoolkills1

However, over a decade earlier, artist Jim Calafiore (who drew a number of Deadpool comics between 2000-2002, including the amusing parody of the G.I. Joe “Silent Interlude” issue…

deadpoolsilent

almost did his own variation of that theme, with a fill-in story he wrote and drew called Deadpool Almost Destroys the Marvel Universe.

Here’s Calafiore on the issue at his website:

This is the filler story that actually made it all the way to finished inks before being “killed” (they cancelled his title and re-launched him with a new look).

To be honest, the impetus for the story was a notion I had to cram in every Marvel character I could in to one story. So I came up with an alien invasion scenario. The twist is that the story is told in reverse, starting with the end of the battle first, and progressing backwards in snippets to the end, which is the beginning. There we see how the whole thing is Deadpool’s fault. I had a lot of fun with the character, throwing in as many little gags as I could (facing Captain America, Deadpool says “Say Captain, ain’t you like WAY overdue for a promotion”), some of which are very dated by now (I had the new Captain Marvel in there, who’d just been introduced, but everyone thought he was the original, and wondered “Aren’t you dead?”).

The idea behind the story is that Deadpool has a cold and he accidentally gives it to an alien ambassador, killing the alien instantly. This leads to the alien race declaring war on Earth and all of the heroes of Earth must prevent the destruction of Earth, all due to Deadpool’s sniffles.

Here are some pages (this would be around 2000, hence the outfits for some of the characters). I’ll post them in reverse order (so chronological order)…

Deadpool killing the alien through a sneeze…

alien1

All the heroes getting together because of Deadpool….

alien2

Captain Marvel irked at Deadpool continuing to ask, “Aren’t you dead?”

alien3

A beautiful double-page splash of the climactic battle…

alien5

Captain America telling Deadpool not to kill any more alien ambassadors…

alien6

Come on, Marvel, there’s still time to do this as a one-shot! Everyone loves Deadpool comics! Even “set in 2000″ continuity stories! Heck, you know how Deadpool occasionally has “Flashback” issues? This could be one of them!
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Check out some recent entertainment and sports legends from Legends Revealed:

Was South Park Not Allowed to Kill Off Sally Struthers?

Did Waldo from Where’s Waldo Appear in Mel Gibson’s Apocalypto?

Were the Cleveland Browns Named After Boxing Legend Joe Louis?

Did Sally Jessy Raphael Keep Wearing Her Trademark Eyeglasses Even After Getting Corrective Eye Surgery?
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

On the next page, did Mike Grell intentionally create a lame superhero for DC’s Bloodlines Annuals?

1 2 3
Next »

48 Comments

So, what was the hero Grell pulled back?

Yes…answer Zane’s question!!

Rollo Tomassi. Ha ha ha. Classic. I love LA Confidential.

I liked that Goblin book at the time, but it did not age well.

Um, isn’t all the work creators do for Marvel and DC ‘work for hire’ and all characters created along the way owned by the publisher? Not sure how creating a new character for these particular annuals was anything different from the norm.

@Matt – There were profit-sharing incentives and creator credits in other media (with royalty payments there as well) to be considered. This seems to have been DC’s attempt to circumvent all of that progress with an up-front “This is ours, you don’t get any pie.”

Some of them they get to keep and take some serious credit for. The only success of Bloodlines was Hitman, which was gone for a while after it ended, then had that really good JLA/Hitman story, and then we got that really unexpected “Section 8″ spin-off series last year.

Matt –

You are correct. All (or most of all) the work done for Marvel and DC is already work for hire. But consider that the dialogue about creator rights was very heated at the time. I agree with Keith Bowden, but it seems to me like actually warning the creators that this is work for hire is a sort of courtesy, a code for “Sorry dudes, be warned that you won’t get a piece of this, so save your better creations for other occasions. Still want to do your best? Okay, you were warned.”

Have to check this Deadpool #42 in Deadpool Omnibus Vol. 1 (by Christopher Priest et al.). Yes, please do the one-shot Deadpool “almost kills the Marvel Universe”! :-D

I dunno, “supppppppper prescient” sounds more like De Falco was innately aware of dinner. “Suuuuuuuuper” has it’s own problems, of course; it’s aesthetically unpleasant and skews toward appetizers.

I do like me some Calafiore, though. Writers came and went (and came… and went) but he was the heart and soul of Exiles. Hopefully we’ll get that Deadpool story at long last; seems like a no-brainer now that his general cultural awareness has grown from zero to… more than zero. Two point six. Which could hit Eleven if Reynolds does SNL in character; pity the poor censor for that episode.

… how could Deadpool have a cold?

You know, I support everyone’s right to do with their ideas what they want. They’re not required to do anything, and if you think you can win the lottery, there’s no real harm in dreaming. But too often I think it comes off as ego and delusion. Who is the hero Grell pulled back? The answer is probably “no one you’d care about.” Because most characters at all companies are basically throw away. And if you’re not doing it for Marvel or DC, then you’re really not likely that anyone is ever going to remember those characters anyway. If you have a great concept for a story/world, like Walking Dead, or Powers, that probably wouldn’t fit in one of the universes anyway, sure, hang onto that. But now more people have probably heard about Megasonic Teenage Warhead than any of the Image characters. So if you REALLY think you’ve got something great, and can make it last for a long time of you getting the royalties, then sure, write your Savage Dragon book for a lifetime. The business side can win. But odds are you’re the only one who thinks your character is really all that great, and if you’re doing it for the art too, then you have a better chance of being remember artistically if you’re character has a chance to be read and maybe even seen someday. Not everyone is going to be Stan Lee with loads of characters on the big screen known by billions. But Rob Liefeld is getting more pub and will be remember forever as the guy who brought us minor throwaway character Deadpool (even if he owes a lot of credit to others), and no one is knocking down his door for a Youngblood movie.

“who cares if a company gets rich off your work and you get nothing, you’ll be forever remembered as creating something that ended up in a film!”

Two things:

Don’t Ennis & McCrea have a stake in Hitman? I know he’s not fully creator-owned, but I thought he wasn’t just outright owned by DC either.

Wasn’t it likely that pre-Image, those artists were already discussing their ideas and potential plans? Isn’t DeFalco a logical person that you might go to and say, “Hey, would you like to come with us and help run this?” I mean, it’s possible that DeFalco was making fun of a scheme that he found completely unrealistic, but it seems like it’s too much of a coincidence that he just happened to write that a few months before it actually happened.

“If you create a character and no one ever knows it exists, did it happen?”

I mean, 99% of the time the choice is create something that makes no money and has no artistic memory, then a small chance you create something that outlives you, if not in film, then at least that you created a character that was good enough to become a regular. Or you take that less than 1% chance that you actually create something that makes someone else a lot of money because they have the capability to make something actually good famous in the rare event it happens….or take that .00001% chance that you can keep it, and get rich off of it. I play the lottery sometimes too, but I don’t make career decisions off of it. Because I don’t think I’m actually going to win.

Besides, if you became an artist to make lots of money rather than create lasting art, maybe you should have picked a different career than artist. Pick your average prolific artist of the day (don’t want to call out any names) who regularly get called out here for being average or dull, but we all know their names. Most of us aren’t going to be remembered for what we did after our kids and maybe grandkids die. But people will know who created Wolverine in a very average Hulk issue long after we’re all gone. And if you’d have saved Wolverine for yourself you’d not only would have had to find a way to get him out there yourself, but you’d have had to collaborate with all the other great creators that made him far greater than his original conception was. Good luck with that. I hear the Powerball is up to $212 million too. (The amount of comic characters who became hugely successful because of one or two men is largely nonexistent.)

As historical context, DC’s Bloodlines and Marvel’s whatever their similar Annual event was that year I forgot came about the same time as not only Image and Valiant were huge, but Malibu had just launched Ultraverse and Dark Horse had Comics Greatest World, just to name two. So there was a DELUGE of new characters coming out in relatively short time period. Both of those Big Two events were reactionary, basically saying to readers “hey we can create cool new characters too! Look look!!”

I wonder if DeFalco himself could shed some light on what that Goblin issue was commenting on. Maybe there had been some back channel gossip and he was poking the bear so to speak. Heroes Reborn was right around the corner and that kind of stuff usually takes awhile to line up the ducks so to speak.

I know artistic tastes differ and all but that Green Goblin artwork is just horrid.

I’m not really a fan of Scott McDaniel’s work but he has done some work where his style can work without my wanting to tear out my eyeballs. And it’s true that inkers can make or break a penciler’s work but Fisher’ really didn’t help McDaniel–it just makes McDaniel’s art look goofy and comical, at least on the pages displayed here. (I did a quick look at Fisher’s ComicBookDatabase history and he seems to have split the comic field after just a few years. His credits of original work only spans 1995 to 1999 with most of it coming out in 1996. And most of his ink work was for McDaniel and Josh Hood.)

Hmmm…

Shaman’s tears was released in 1993. Could the cool character that Grell ‘held back’ have been a version of Joshua Brand?

“The character I created, the one that showed up in print was this war veteran who had a prosthetic hand or a prosthesis and when he would active his power, his hook would become this giant hook/claw thing that could cut through anything.”

Y’know, given the situation, reading that description, and looking at the final posted panel of the full costume, it looks like Mike intended this guy’s superpower to be a really big can opener.

I understand that work for hire is miserable in terms of creating new characters but creating something terrible on purpose seems self-defeating in terms of a creators reputation. Lousy business model for everyone involved including the readers.

Seems like DeFalco was making a statement specifically about Liefeld and Lee returning for Marvel. “Unfinished Business,” quoted in the Goblin vs. Hulk panel above, was the term used when the Lee/Liefeld deal was originally announced in late 1995.

@Rollo “Both of those Big Two events were reactionary, basically saying to readers “hey we can create cool new characters too! Look look!!”” – it was that but it also seemed to me, even back then as a young kid, that it was the big two trying to lay claim to as many names, powers and character designs as possible before any other publisher could.

Not sure what character Grell might be referring to, if he ever used it. The Bloodlines annual was after the debut of Shaman’s Tears, so it isn’t that.

Um, isn’t all the work creators do for Marvel and DC ‘work for hire’ and all characters created along the way owned by the publisher? Not sure how creating a new character for these particular annuals was anything different from the norm

As Keith noted, there were specific set-ups at DC and Marvel at the time to give some measure of royalties for creating characters. To wit, Chuck Dixon still gets royalties every time Bane is used in a movie or made into a toy or whatever. But DC apparently was saying that these characters would specifically NOT be part of that program. Marvel may have given SOME sort of rights to their creators. I know one of the artists said that he had been given some sort of small right involving his creation (of course, said creation never appeared outside of the annual, so it didn’t matter, but still).

That “Hook” character looks like something that could be “Nightwing 2099″. Gah! :D

And it’s funny that J. Scott Campbell drew Kitana and IIRC Mileena in “Gen13″ and McDaniel used Kung Lao for the “Green Goblin” series.

As for the “Deadpool” one-shot: It’s odd that it wasn’t included in that “Marvel Vault” series of one-shots were they finally released a bunch of inventory stories. I’m curious how many issues of a new volume of “Marvel Fanfare” they could fill with still-unreleased inventory stories alone.

M-Wolverine, I agree with almost everything you say but one thing Yes Wolverine is well known outside the comics reading world but how many people know who created him? Heck, how many people INSIDE the comic reading world know who created wolverine? Lol

“how many people INSIDE the comic reading world know who created wolverine”

Frank Miller, right? ;)

Yup. Miller. With Byrne. Lol

Heh, I know some people would disagree with me, but I think Chris Claremont and John Byrne had a much bigger part in defining Wolverine than his actual creator, Len Wein.

@Rene
You mean besides turning him from an evolved Wolverine into a mutant with traits and personality similar to a Wolverine?

Or just the cigars? ;)

Hey Mr Grell, you do realize that people pay money to read those books you make terrible on purpose, right?

Jeff Nettleton- I don’t think Wein was the one who came up with the “evolved wolverine” origin. I think that’s something Claremont and Cockrum were playing around with at some point before Byrne came on X-MEN.

Yeah, it was Cockrum and Claremont. Cockrum misled many folks (myself included) for many years by how he described who came up with the idea. He said something to the effect of, “Len and I did this. Then we were going to have him be a mutated wolverine,” only the “we” in the second sentence was somehow NOT him and Wein, but him and Claremont.

It is my understanding that Len Wein’s Wolverine was a teenager with clawed gloves

…comic characters can change a lot from what the original creator intended which can make the question of who created a character confusing
Psylocke doesn’t look anything like the blonde teenage girl from Captain Britain weekly, then there is StarLord, etc

M-Wolverine –

Yeah, there is a little bit of hypocrisy in guys like Steve Gerber complaining about Marvel “stealing” Howard the Duck. I love Gerber’s work, but really, I wonder if Howard would have had an audience if it weren’t published by Marvel and with frikking Spider-Man on the cover of the first issue?

But I’m still sympathetic to those creators. If anything, their complaining and campaigning improved creator rights for the guys who came later.

I’m loving the inked art in that Deadpool issue.
(And just behind me, coincidentally, there’s a trade I bought for ‘Punisher Kills The Marvel Universe’.)

I don’t remember…in the Wolverine or X-Men movies do the credits say “created by Len Wein?” Because a lot of the movies do that, and while it may not be millions of dollars or put much ahead of the gaffer on the film, it is its own but of immortality. It could go either way…would you rather live a rich life and not care what happens after you’re dead, because you’re dead, or would you rather not have more money than you can spend because you can’t take it with you, but be remembered for your work for decades or centuries? Either answer could be right in a philosophical way. Of course everyone would rather be rich AND leave a legacy, but then most achieve neither.

Hook was not a bad character in my opinion. Edge(?) from the Man Of Steel annual was the one who stood out as horrible to me way back then.

still no answer, Mr. Grell….

I don’t remember…in the Wolverine or X-Men movies do the credits say “created by Len Wein?”

For Marvel’s movies, they go with “Special thanks.” Wein has made no extra money for creating Wolverine. He’s made a decent amount of money, though, for creating LUCIUS freakin’ FOX!

@Brian Cronin

Doesn’t DC have (or had) some sort of incentive program for creating characters that get adapted into other media? I remember Gerry Conway suggesting that someone start a database for which characters get used in adaptations, because he hadn’t even realized until someone told him that DC had owed him a bunch of money for Felicity from Arrow.

I feel bad for the creators that never got a thing for their creations. Jack Kirby was an amazing innovator and so creative. Marvel and DC really screwed people back in the day.

Honestly, I wouldn’t create any new characters for the big 2 if I was working in comics. I’d get my stuff rolling with an independent like Image, Dark Horse and so on.

Yeah, Marvel goes out of their way to Not give creator’s money for anything.

I wouldn’t necessarily classify this as False. Outwardly the timeline may seem off but for people inside the business rumors spread easy because everyone knows everyone.
Liefeld getting kicked out wasnt something everyone decided on spontaneously, it was something that built to a boiling point so I can imagine inside the industry there was a lot of gossip going around. You think about convention season and how much drinking and talking goes on with pros of any level, this was pre-internet gossip sites so fans obviously would have NO idea what was happening inside the industry with someone writing a lengthy expose about it.

what i meant in that last sentence was— fans obviously would have NO idea what was happening inside the industry withOUT someone writing a lengthy expose about it.

Liefeld getting kicked out wasnt something everyone decided on spontaneously, it was something that built to a boiling point so I can imagine inside the industry there was a lot of gossip going around. You think about convention season and how much drinking and talking goes on with pros of any level, this was pre-internet gossip sites so fans obviously would have NO idea what was happening inside the industry with someone writing a lengthy expose about it.

The story as written, though, would only work as being about Liefeld if it was Liefeld being pushed out of the company at the time. That’s not how things happened, though, as Silvestri left first in June of that year and he left because of conflicts with Liefeld, so obviously for a time the company stood by him. Liefeld only left himself in September of that year. So it wouldn’t make sense for DeFalco to be writing a story about Liefeld being driven out of the company in April (writing it before then, of course, as it came out in April). Could DeFalco be writing the story based on general in-fighting at Image? Of course. But just not specifically Liefeld being driven out of the company.

[…] one-shot no publicado sobre Deadpool Almost Destroys the Marvel Universe (pueden ver más detalles aquí). Estas historias fuera de continuidad son un buen espacio para la libertad de los autores, y ver […]

[…] one-shot no publicado sobre Deadpool Almost Destroys the Marvel Universe (pueden ver más detalles aquí). Estas historias fuera de continuidad son un buen espacio para la libertad de los autores, y ver […]

It is possible, Defalco was hearing rumors. Liefeld’s behavior was hardly a secret.

Leave a Comment

 

Categories

Review Copies

Comics Should Be Good accepts review copies. Anything sent to us will (for better or for worse) end up reviewed on the blog. See where to send the review copies.

Browse the Archives