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Comic Theme Time - Geoff Johns' "Returns"

Brian Cronin — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 22:41:40 +0000

Again, the concept for this bit is that there are certain topics that I've considered for Top Fives that when I go to narrow it down, it strikes me that there are just way too many good ones for me to truly narrow it down to five, so rather than miss out on highlighting these bits, I figure I will instead throw it open to you good folks to name as many examples that fit this theme as you can think of!

I'll start you off with ten (so you know what I'm basically looking for), then you supply as many more as you can!

So here are ten examples of something that has become a bit of a trademark for Geoff Johns in his career at DC, where he "fixes" characters. By fix, I mean that he does changes that return characters (or approximations of such) to a familiar state, a state that Johns likely thinks is better - so in his mind (and I'm sure a lot of readers, as well), he's not so much reverting characters as he is returning good characters that had been lost due to various decisions in the past.

1. Perhaps Johns' most famous return was the return of Hawkman in the pages of JSA, where Johns and David Goyer brought back Carter Hall in a streamlined take off of the original Golden Age Hawkman's origin (re-incarnated spirits). Since Hawkman was quite literally in character limbo before this, this was a significant return.

2. Johns' return of the classic take on Cyborg was a multi-step task. By the end of his run on Titans, Marv Wolfman had Cyborg become a new sort-of-alien being named Cyberion. When Devin Grayson re-started the Titans with a JLA/Titans mini-series, the main plot involved Cyborg returning to a new, human-looking metal body. Later in her run on Titans, she then had it revealed that Nightwing had cloned Cyborg's human body, and they then mixed the new metal body with the clone, so Cyborg was human again, just with metal flowing in his body (giving him powers, of course).

So that was the state when Johns had Cyborg guest-star in the pages of Flash - Cyborg was just a normal-looking human who could do stuff with the yellow metal within his body. So first, Johns had Cyborg use the metal to wrap his human body in his old classic form while in battle. That was return #1.

Later, in a Flash storyline, while in this form, Cyborg was frozen in the battle form. So now he was stuck looking like his classic self, except that it was yellow, not grey. That was return #2.

Then, later on in another Flash story, Cyborg had the yellow drained from his look, so now his battle form was grey again. That was return #3, and now Cyborg was back to the way he looked during the classic Wolfman/Perez years.

3. In the first storyline of the Teen Titans, Johns had Impulse take over the name and costume of Kid Flash.

4. In that same first storyline, Johns brought back a minor Titans character named Rose Wilson, the daughter of Deathstroke, and had her become the new Ravager, bringing back the the character of Ravager to the Titans comics. Not as much of a return of the other stuff, but close!

5. In that same first storyline, Johns brought Jericho back from the dead as a possessing spirit, and in a later Teen Titans storyline, he had Jericho return to a human body again, back to normal (although this time, he had a healthy body, so he could talk!).

6. In Green Lantern: Rebirth, Hal Jordan was back to being a Green Lantern again.

7. In Green Lantern: Rebirth, Guy Gardner was no longer an alien and was also back to being a Green Lantern again.

8. In JSA, Johns brought back the Golden Age Hourman via an hour stuck in time where the current Hourman could visit his father right before his father was meant to return to the battle that killed him. Later on, the android Hourman sacrificed himself to save the Golden Age Hourman, so that Hourman is now back to life.

9. In JSA #50, although Alan Scott no longer needs a ring to use his powers and had been calling himself Sentinel, Alan decided to use a ring as a symbol, and go back to calling himself Green Lantern.

10. In his last story in Booster Gold (along with co-writer Jeff Katz), Johns brought Booster Gold's dead sister back to life.

That's ten!

Try to name more!

Do note that this is not meant as a criticism, just saying that this is something he does often so I thought it'd be interesting to catalog as many of them as we can think of!

47 Comments

At September 30, 2008, PÃ³l Rua wrote:
Oddly enough, this used to be John Byrne's schtick too.
At September 30, 2008, Jack Tango wrote:
11) He brought back Blue Beetle...although they're letting that be vaguevaguevague...
At September 30, 2008, Greg Burgas wrote:
Boy, reading this makes me wonder why I read comics. It makes me hate Geoff Johns and DC even ...
At September 30, 2008, Michael wrote:
Yeah, it's called the "characters ought to be exactly the way they were when I was 13, now you damn ...
At September 30, 2008, David wrote:
Why create new characters when there are great characters that aren't being used? That just creates unnecessary copies, watered ...
At September 30, 2008, Lawrence wrote:
Am I the only one who doesn't think Johns' revivals were that good? I think they were well received because ...
At September 30, 2008, Nitz the Bloody wrote:
" Yeah, itâ€™s called the â€œcharacters ought to be exactly the way they were when I was 13, now you ...
At September 30, 2008, McK wrote:
Brian:

When Johns had Jericho *finally* return, he was back to being mute. Since he was reborn in a new ...
At September 30, 2008, McK wrote:
Of course, he will always have the black mark of "Superboy punched the wall of reality," though...
At September 30, 2008, John Seavey wrote:
From what I'm given to understand, Johns didn't initiate the idea of turning Bart into Kid Flash, it was forced ...
At September 30, 2008, MDV wrote:
McK is right with the above posts - don't blame Johns for returning characters to their classic state, blame the ...
At September 30, 2008, jccalhoun wrote:
The Superboy wall punch was Judd WInick's excuse wasn't it?

Basically Johns' approach is "that never happened" and "we will never ...
At September 30, 2008, Kelson wrote:
Nitpick on Cyborg: Freezing him in his classic appearance and having the gold changed to silver actually happened simultaneously. ...
At September 30, 2008, M Bloom wrote:
Hmm. I'd be interested to see a ratio of characters Johns has brought back versus established characters he's killed.
At September 30, 2008, Thok wrote:
12. There was only the original Toyman: the rest were robots and in particular a robot killed Adam Grant. ...
At September 30, 2008, DanLarkin wrote:
13. He made Power Girl a Kryptonian cousin of Superman again
At September 30, 2008, jazzbo wrote:
14. I don't know if this is covered in the "Superboy punch" comment, but he reverted the Doom Patrol back ...
At September 30, 2008, Michael wrote:
I care how it gets done. If it's not a good story, they shouldn't do it.
At September 30, 2008, Loren wrote:
15. In DC 1st Superman/Flash, Abra Kadabra was returned to his classic magician look, and not the creepy bald design ...
At September 30, 2008, Conor E wrote:
I say this as someone who vastly prefers Johns' work to Loeb's: That retconning of Loeb's Toyman just seemed disrespectful ...
At September 30, 2008, McK wrote:
The Superboy wall punch was Judd WInickâ€™s excuse wasnâ€™t it?

It appeared in the Infinite Crisis Secret Files, written by Wolfman, ...
At September 30, 2008, Thok wrote:
I say this as someone who vastly prefers Johnsâ€™ work to Loebâ€™s: That retconning of Loebâ€™s Toyman just seemed disrespectful ...
At October 1, 2008, Jbird wrote:
Johns is doubtless one of the greats of this era.
At October 1, 2008, Rohan Williams wrote:
Count me in as someone who (usually) likes Johns' 'fixes'. He's ultimately a caretaker of other people's intellectual property, so ...
At October 1, 2008, Jeff Ryan wrote:
My dog died a few years ago, and Geoff Johns wrote that I got a new dog, then I got ...
At October 1, 2008, Joe Rice wrote:
19. Hal Jordan's hair . . .

The majority of this list just makes me . . .not sad, exactly, ...
At October 1, 2008, Rohan Williams wrote:
Not all of Geoff's 'fixes' are regressive, though. Some of them do move things forward. The Coast City example I ...
At October 1, 2008, Richard Pachter wrote:
Geoff Johns cleans up messes.

After all, if the reboots and earlier changes had been successful, he would't have to clean ...
At October 1, 2008, R. J. Sterling wrote:
"Jazzbo", don't say "revert BACK", please; that's redundant. Just say "revert"; that means "turn back". And for that matter, people, ...
At October 1, 2008, R. J. Sterling wrote:
And speaking of Superboy-punches, I thought it was idiotic that in the "Teen Titans"/"Infinite Crisis" tie-in he could PUNCH his ...
At October 1, 2008, Rohan Williams wrote:
I'm going to start saying 'revert back' in day-to-day conversations now, loudly emphasising the 'BACK', just to see if R.J. ...
At October 1, 2008, Chris G. wrote:
"Heâ€™s ultimately a caretaker of other peopleâ€™s intellectual property"

Except when he's mutilating or killing characters. Or both. That's ...
At October 1, 2008, Eric wrote:
21) Has anyone mentioned the Legion re-re-reboot? I'm not sure it was numbered anywhere. Anyway, the original Legion is back, ...
At October 1, 2008, Carl wrote:
He brought back a Teen Titans lineup that included Robin, Wonder Girl, Kid Flash, Beast Boy, Cyborg, Starfire, and Raven.
At October 1, 2008, Derick wrote:
ItÂ´s funny the "oh i hate him why doesnt he create something new".

Well, how many comics with new characters have ...
At October 1, 2008, DanLarkin wrote:
Richard Pachter- If his stories but actually were entertaining, you might have a point. The returns schtick wouldn't be so ...
At October 1, 2008, Richard Pachter wrote:
@DanLarkin

Of course you're right. But so am I.

"Entertaining" is surely subjective. I enjoyed his Legion arc in Action Comics, for ...
At October 1, 2008, McK wrote:
Except when heâ€™s mutilating or killing characters. Or both. Thatâ€™s the perverse thing â€” for all of Johnsâ€™ running around ...
At October 1, 2008, HammerHeart wrote:
ItÂ´s funny the â€œoh i hate him why doesnt he create something newâ€.

Well, how many comics with new characters have ...
At October 1, 2008, Scavenger wrote:
"The majority of this list just makes me . . .not sad, exactly, but . . .like if ennui were ...
At October 1, 2008, R. J. Sterling wrote:
Loren, DanLarkin, stop saying "revert BACK". It isn't good English. Rohan Williams, yes, I will materialize, SCIENTIFICALLY, not magically.
At October 1, 2008, jackdaw53 wrote:
For me, Geoff Johns never quite seems to get into what makes the characters live and breath... seems more worried ...
At October 1, 2008, Nitz the Bloody wrote:
" For me, Geoff Johns never quite seems to get into what makes the characters live and breathâ€¦ seems more ...
At October 1, 2008, T. wrote:
I think all these claims by fans likening Tony Stark to a Nazi or fascist are a little overdone. ...
At October 1, 2008, jccalhoun wrote:
The version of the Legion that appeared in Johns' writings is not the original Legion no matter how many times ...
At October 1, 2008, jazzbo wrote:
This is getting off topic, but to respond to T's statement, the registration act is not the same as handgun ...
At October 2, 2008, David wrote:
"â€¦ Bart had no business being Kid Flash".
So you wanted him to stay as Impulse for the rest of his ...

Comic Theme Time - If Only The Internet Had Been Invented...

Brian Cronin — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 20:10:22 +0000

I'll start you off with five (so you know what I'm basically looking for), then you supply as many more as you can!

So here are five examples of events that, had they happened during the days of the internet, would cause people to flip the heck out on-line, a la One More Day (I'm using 1990 as my cut-off point, only because it is not so much fun talking about 90s stuff for this game - 1994 was the first internet freak-out I ever saw - the H.E.A.T. stuff, although 1996 was probably the first REAL one, as H.E.A.T. was in the print media a lot, while the 1996 Heroes Reborn freak-out was mostly on the 'net).

1. The Avengers are now Captain America and three super-villains?!!? WHAT...THE...HELL?!!? These aren't the Avengers I know! These are not the "real" Avengers!!! I'll come back when they bring the REAL Avengers back!

2. I can't believe they killed off Jean Grey! You bastards!!

3. I can't believe they brought Jean Grey back!! You bastards!!

4. Whoa...whoa...whoa...Cap was FROZEN and Bucky's DEAD? Has NOone here read Capain America #76-78?!?! Stan Lee even edited those issues, so he has no excuse!!

5. What do you mean the Teen Titans are dropping their superhero names and costumes and are going to deal with "real issues"?!?! Are you trying to drive me insane?!?!

Now your turn, folks!

91 Comments

At August 17, 2008, Lord Paradise wrote:
What's this "Wonder Woman" doing fighting crime!? She's a GIRL!
At August 17, 2008, Bill Reed wrote:
What the hell's this "Bat-Man" character doing in my Crimson Avenger comics periodical!?
At August 17, 2008, Bill Reed wrote:
How dare they take the "adult" out of my Amazing Adult Fantasy! Ditko's wasting his talents on this Spider fellow!
At August 17, 2008, GarBut wrote:
I would have led the hue and cry over the cancellation of HUMAN FLY and SHOGUN WARRIORS, I'll tell you ...
At August 17, 2008, yo go re wrote:
BARRY ALEN IS TEH GREATIST CHARACETR EVER AND KILLINGS HIMIN CRISIS #8 (SPOILERS!!!!) WAS A HUGE MISSTAKE! WE WILL FORM ...
At August 17, 2008, Michael wrote:
What the hell do you mean Professor X wasn't dead, he was living in his basement the whole time so ...
At August 17, 2008, Bill Reed wrote:
It's a shame to that something like "All New, All Different X-Men" will NEVER EVER EVER happen again.
At August 17, 2008, Scott Steubing wrote:
WFT? Beast is furry?

Storm? Nightcrawler? Wolverine? Sunfire? *Banshee*? Those aren't the X-Men! Give me back Iceman, Angel, Beast and Marvel ...
At August 17, 2008, Scott Steubing wrote:
A few from the Legion of Super-Heroes:

They killed Ferro Lad/Invisible Kid/Karate Kid/Superboy! Those bastards!
At August 17, 2008, DanLarkin wrote:
SuperBOY? WTF? This totally contradicts everything we know about Superman's origins. He became a hero because his father told ...
At August 17, 2008, Rene wrote:
I hate to rain on the parade, but to be fair, even with the Internet I'm not sure some of ...
At August 17, 2008, DanLarkin wrote:
And another thing- Daily PLANET? Way to rape the childhood of all the George Taylor fans out there.
At August 17, 2008, JacobZC wrote:
Spoilers: William Hogarth " A Rake's Progress' 8

Worst Ending Ever!
At August 17, 2008, Thok wrote:
God Loves, Man Kills would have caused an explosion on the internet. I can see the Conservative Blogosphere picking ...
At August 17, 2008, Ian wrote:
"Itâ€™s a shame to that something like â€œAll New, All Different X-Menâ€ will NEVER EVER EVER happen again."

It did a ...
At August 17, 2008, Steve wrote:
All-Star Comics #3: Flash, Hawkman, Hourman, Spectre, Sandman, Dr. Fate, Green Lantern, AND the Atom, all in one book? ...
At August 17, 2008, Blackjak wrote:
Thinking of those covers you gave us last week (or was it the week before) Brian,

"Dear Brave and the Bold,

I ...
At August 17, 2008, Michael wrote:
"Barry who? Bring back the REAL Flash! Jay Garrick forever!
Ray who? Bring back the REAL Atom! Al Pratt forever!
Hal who? ...
At August 17, 2008, Suzene wrote:
Mutant Massacre would have been Godwinized from post #1.
At August 17, 2008, Tom Fitzpatrick wrote:
I can't believe they CANCELLED Major Bummer!!!???!!!
At August 17, 2008, McK wrote:
Pre-Crisis Jason Todd: "So I'm supposed to buy that another young circus aerialist is orphaned and Batman takes him in? ...
At August 17, 2008, Michael wrote:
"Amazing Spider-Man SUCKS now! When are they going to get rid of this terrible John Romita guy and bring back ...
At August 17, 2008, JR wrote:
There were a couple of pretty constant fan complaints/"debates" in various letter columns throughout the years that likely would've been ...
At August 17, 2008, Eliot Johnson wrote:
Vibe is the most obnoxious character I've ever read about. And his powers suck! Kill him off or get him ...
At August 17, 2008, Dan K wrote:
"Ditko Sukcs!!! Get Jack Kirby to draw everything!"

In defense of the internet, we might have been able to kick up ...
At August 17, 2008, DCD wrote:
When is The Tick #13 coming out?! It's been OVER TWO YEARS!!!
At August 17, 2008, Harold wrote:
IÂ´ll never buy another DC comics until they finish Camelot 3000! Who do they think they are, shipping comics late? ...
At August 17, 2008, NecroVMX wrote:
SPEEDY/HARRY OSBOURNE IS DOING DRUGS!!!111ONE
At August 17, 2008, Harold wrote:
OMG they broght Jean Grey back? Gee, death used to mean something in comics! Now what, are they bringing back ...
At August 17, 2008, Harold wrote:
"How dare they take the â€œadultâ€ out of my Amazing Adult Fantasy! Ditkoâ€™s wasting his talents on this Spider fellow!"

CouldnÂ´t ...
At August 17, 2008, OM wrote:
"What the hell? You blew up KRYPTON???"
At August 17, 2008, Thok wrote:
"Lex Luthor? Even if I thought it was a good idea for Superman to fight somebody like that (which ...
At August 17, 2008, Michael wrote:
"In defense of the internet, we might have been able to kick up a bit of a stink about creators ...
At August 17, 2008, Jeff Holland wrote:
"Let me get this straight: Green Arrow loses his fortune and suddenly becomes a left-wing goatee sporting 'man of hte ...
At August 17, 2008, dhole wrote:
"I don't know who this Alan Moore is, or why DC would let him butcher a classic creation of Wein ...
At August 17, 2008, Jason wrote:
Heh...reminds me of What If: What Th-?!, where they had posts from the Sixties, Seventies and Eighties. It's the issue ...
At August 17, 2008, Random Stranger wrote:
An interesting public fan frenzy that well predates the Internet was Jack Kirby's return to Captain America. Things were ...
At August 17, 2008, Steve wrote:
Detective Comics #33: After six issues they're finally revealing The Batman's origin. And we found out that (spoiler warning!) ...
At August 17, 2008, Harold wrote:
Sandman, for me, itÂ´s the guy with the gas mask. Any other book with that name that doesnt feature Wesley ...
At August 17, 2008, Andrew-TLA wrote:
Seriously, WTF is up with those forcefields Sue's throwing around now? She's not useless anymore!

I don't know who that arrogant ...
At August 17, 2008, Brian Cronin wrote:
I hate to rain on the parade, but to be fair, even with the Internet Iâ€™m not sure some of ...
At August 17, 2008, R. J. Sterling wrote:
The sad thing is Kirby did wreck 'Captain America and the Falcon' compared to what Englehart had been doing with ...
At August 17, 2008, Sleestak wrote:
i may be mis-attributing, but i think Bendis once said if the internet was around when Miller did Daredevil the ...
At August 17, 2008, ZZZ wrote:
I agree with Rene that a lot of these are things that would provoke plenty of complaints but not cause ...
At August 17, 2008, Joe wrote:
Tony Stark is a drunk now? The man that overcame great odds to escape imprisonment (while nearly dead no less!!!) ...
At August 17, 2008, stephen cade wrote:
What? A new Green Lantern? A new Hawkman? A new Atom? And worst of all--a new Flash?
What's ...
At August 17, 2008, FunkyGreenJerusalem wrote:
I can't believe they just let Aunt Harriet waste away after Alfreds return!

â€œWhy the hell do you have to explain ...
At August 18, 2008, yo go re wrote:
So, wait, Professor X has a brother we've NEVER EVER HEARD about until no, and he just HAPPENS to show ...
At August 18, 2008, yo go re wrote:
ooh, better one!

I don't usually mind new writers on my favorite books, but this Claremont guy has got to go! ...
At August 18, 2008, wwk5d wrote:
I'm not sure if people would have made a stir about the All-New, All-Different X-men. The title had been cancelled ...
At August 18, 2008, FunkyGreenJerusalem wrote:
1) Grant Morrison is doing *what* to the Doom Patrol?

I can also see room for 'That's it? He and Animal ...
At August 18, 2008, John Cage wrote:
I'm boycotting those airheads at DC until they bring back Jason Todd. We've had to put up with a lot ...
At August 18, 2008, Bernard the Poet wrote:
Magneto is the now a reformed character and leader of the X-Men. Am I the only one who remembers him ...
At August 18, 2008, Tomer S wrote:
Jason: I was just about mention Wha-- Huh? Marvel did a cool thing with the "What if the Internet Was ...
At August 18, 2008, Bernard the Poet wrote:
"Terra would have caused more of an uproar among Teen Titan fans than them dealing with real issues."

I read in ...
At August 18, 2008, wwk5d wrote:
â€œTerra would have caused more of an uproar among Teen Titan fans than them dealing with real issues.â€

What real issues?
At August 18, 2008, Blackjak wrote:
"Sandman, for me, itÂ´s the guy with the gas mask. Any other book with that name that doesnt feature Wesley ...
At August 18, 2008, Chris McAree wrote:
How dare they stop reprinting the old X-men comics. How will I ever find out what happens in Avengers 53 ...
At August 18, 2008, Chris McAree wrote:
Seriously though, I can remember reading the letters pages in Batman after Year: One, and if Frank Miller thinks he's ...
At August 18, 2008, Bernard the Poet wrote:
"Iâ€™m not sure if people would have made a stir about the All-New, All-Different X-men. The title had been cancelled ...
At August 18, 2008, J. R. wrote:
There's going to be another Robin?! Didn't DC learn from the Jason Todd disaster? Dick Grayson is the ...
At August 18, 2008, Jeff Ryan wrote:
Who is this Skeezix baby, and why does Walt have to take care of him? Gasoline Alley is supposed to ...
At August 18, 2008, Blackjak wrote:
An Aardvark?? Seriously? I give it six issues max, before they run out of jokes...
An they can't even ...
At August 18, 2008, Matt D wrote:
So why isn't Toro on the Fantastic Four again?
At August 18, 2008, Harold wrote:
Favorite internet threat/complain:

"IÂ´m going to stop buying all ___ titles" - yeah, right!

"Stop raping my childhood memories"
At August 18, 2008, Lorendiac wrote:
Brian offered five, so I'll offer five, just off the top of my head.

Note: I'm typing these out before reading ...
At August 18, 2008, Thok wrote:
Iâ€™m boycotting those airheads at DC until they bring back Jason Todd. Weâ€™ve had to put up with a lot ...
At August 18, 2008, HammerHeart wrote:
OMG, how can DC let Frank Miller ruin the Batman's mythos with this Year One crap? Now Catwoman is a ...
At August 18, 2008, Greg Hatcher wrote:
I just want it on the record that we are keeping track of all you guys bringing the hilarity and ...
At August 18, 2008, Matt D wrote:
Curses! The easiest way to trap people on the internet is to give them an outlet to show how clever ...
At August 18, 2008, Blackjak wrote:
Hilarity?

Are you mocking our pain???
At August 18, 2008, tk. wrote:
Sign my internet petition to bring back Not Brand Echh! Forbush Man forever!
At August 18, 2008, Rob Zero wrote:
What the heck is a Kree? Where's Billy Batson?
At August 18, 2008, Michael wrote:
Life is pain, Blackjak. Anyone who says differently is selling something.
At August 18, 2008, Blackjak wrote:
Michael,
My favourite verison of that goes
"Life is sh1t, just ignore the smell and keep going..."
;-)

If you are suffering ...
At August 18, 2008, Pisthetairos wrote:
Okay, everyone. I bought my copy of Truth magazine today. I saw some sort of cartoon drawn in it. I ...
At August 18, 2008, ¿Qué se hubiera dicho en Internet hace… muchos años?: Nuestros comics wrote:
[...] haceâ€¦ 40 aÃ±os, 50 o mÃ¡s. Â¿QuÃ© opiniones hubieran dejado caer los fans por aquel entonces? En Comics Should ...
At August 18, 2008, John Cage wrote:
Re: Thok -- I was going for a general sort of rant on what happened rather than rip on anything ...
At August 19, 2008, Doug Atkinson wrote:
Galactus "Trilogy?" Remember when writers could write stories that were complete in one issue?

This Spider-Man is just one more entry ...
At August 19, 2008, eaglesfillthesky wrote:
What the heck is that yellow circle doing on batman's costume? and what's with this ra's al ghoul guy? ...
At August 19, 2008, eaglesfillthesky wrote:
and dc, what's the deal with only giving me one story per issue? i expect more than that for a ...
At August 19, 2008, Lorendiac wrote:
Hammerheart said:
OMG, how can DC let Frank Miller ruin the Batmanâ€™s mythos with this Year One crap? Now Catwoman is ...
At August 19, 2008, Lorendiac wrote:
Pisthetairos -- while I've vaguely heard of the Yellow Kid, I didn't identify the name "Truth Magazine." You definitely went ...
At August 19, 2008, Lorendiac wrote:
Doug Atkinson said:
Galactus â€œTrilogy?â€ Remember when writers could write stories that were complete in one issue?

If I'd been alive in ...
At August 19, 2008, Lorendiac wrote:
I think I meant that last bit to say: "compared to whoever-the-writer-was of that old epic which was dragged out ...
At August 19, 2008, billo wrote:
Justice League Detroit? Bring back the satellite!!

When is Ronin 6 coming out??

A New Universe? Boycott these comics! ...
At August 20, 2008, yo go re wrote:
Pisthetairos â€” while Iâ€™ve vaguely heard of the Yellow Kid, I didnâ€™t identify the name â€œTruth Magazine.â€ You definitely went ...
At August 20, 2008, Lorendiac wrote:
billo said:
Justice League Detroit? Bring back the satellite!!

But that's only what any sensible reader would say!

Although if the team ...
At August 20, 2008, Lorendiac wrote:
yo go re --

Your comment about giving up on a pyramid because of its mangled art was funny!

In case ...
At August 20, 2008, Thenodrin wrote:
I'm sorry. I couldn't help myself.

1. What's with this Chris Claremont broad turning the X-Men into a love-fest soap opera? ...
At August 22, 2008, Lothor wrote:
1. "Captain and the Kids?" it's just a ripoff of the Katzenjammer Kids!

2a. "Teenage...Mutant...Ninja...TURTLES???" WTF?
2b. What's with ...

Comic Theme Time - The Boldest Retcons Ever

Brian Cronin — Wed, 06 Aug 2008 19:41:14 +0000

I've done Theme Time for Snark Free Corner, but now it is graduating to its own bit! The concept is basically that there are certain topics that I've considered for Top Fives that when I go to narrow it down, it strikes me that there are just way too many good ones for me to truly narrow it down to five, so rather than miss out on highlighting these bits, I figure I will instead throw it open to you good folks to name as many examples that fit this theme as you can think of!

I'll start you off with five (so you know what I'm basically looking for), then you supply as many more as you can!

So here are five examples of particularly bold retcons, the kind that make you think, "Wow, did they really just try to explain away ____ with _____? Wow, that's brassy."

1. Geoff Johns explaining away Hal Jordan's grey hair as a side effect of the yellow fear monster.

2. Kurt Busiek explaining away an old Thor issue that contradicted his Avengers Forever retcon by noting that the Space Phantoms taught themselves to think lies, even to themselves (thus explaining why the Space Phantom's thought balloons in the older story contradicted Busiek's plot).

3. Gerry Jones explaining away Little Mermaid's death in an issue of Justice League Europe as "no, that was my twin."

4. Geoff Johns explaining away every Toyman (particularly the one who killed Adam Grant) other than the original as being robots built by Toyman.

5. Adam Beechen's entire explanation for Batgirl turning heel.

Now your turn!

108 Comments

At August 6, 2008, mark wrote:
I love the phrase "turning heel". I usually use it to describe when one friend dumps another suddenly.
At August 6, 2008, Aaron Nowack wrote:
Eh, the main thrust of the Batgirl stuff is fairly typical ("It was mind control!"), but some of the details ...
At August 6, 2008, Mark D. White wrote:
No mention of Superboy-punches?
At August 6, 2008, Michael Scheu wrote:
Shvaughn Erin being a drug-induced transexual in Legion's One Year Gap.
At August 6, 2008, Eric Grant wrote:
I still like the Jason Todd's not dead/Superboy punch. Actually, pretty much everything caused by a Superboy punch. That's awesome.
At August 6, 2008, Jeff Ryan wrote:
Quasar #18's retcon-that-saves-the-universe has got to be in there, right.

And, if I can make mention of a non-Quasar story, there ...
At August 6, 2008, Scott MacIver wrote:
Lets start off with the earliest one from my childhood.

Dark Phoenix was a universal power that replaced Jean as the ...
At August 6, 2008, Aaron Nowack wrote:
No mention of Superboy-punches?

Have they actually been used to "explain away" anything in this sense, though? I wouldn't think ...
At August 6, 2008, M Bloom wrote:
I have a particular fondness for Gerry Conway's "Black Canary was active in the 1940s, but isn't in her 60s ...
At August 6, 2008, Jeff R. wrote:
Legion department:

The TMK/TM run was rich with these, of course. The Eltro Gand business, the Protty/Lightning Lad business, re-writing ...
At August 6, 2008, Scott Rowland wrote:
The Aunt May who died was really an actress.

Dr. Light becoming a figure of ridicule due to a botched mind-wipe ...
At August 6, 2008, Scott Rowland wrote:
M. Bloom, wasn't the Canary retcon actually Roy Thomas and Marv Wolfman, not Gerry Conway?
I accept that one in the ...
At August 6, 2008, Negman wrote:
Boldness? I think one of the boldest of all time has to be One More/Brand New Day.

'nuff said.
At August 6, 2008, Marko wrote:
Xorn was actually Xornâ€™s twin brother pretending to be Magneto pretending to be Xorn-----> =)
At August 6, 2008, Major Retcon wrote:
Not quite bold as some of the others, but I think Walt Simonson & the Doombots is worth a mention.
At August 6, 2008, Adam Jones wrote:
Mary Jane having her arm broken by that monster in the other, then in the next issue (which took place ...
At August 6, 2008, Chris Jones wrote:
Anyone else notice a huge amount of DC on this list?
At August 6, 2008, DanLarkin wrote:
The Rampaging Hulk movie bit.

Alicia Masters was a Skrull.
At August 6, 2008, Horsebandit wrote:
Wow, so many after Brian's five! I'm really starting to think most retcons sound pretty "bold" (trying to resist saying ...
At August 6, 2008, Random Stranger wrote:
"Not quite bold as some of the others, but I think Walt Simonson & the Doombots is worth a mention."

If ...
At August 6, 2008, FD wrote:
Yep, One More Day/Brand New Day is the biggest one, IMO. And not working too well, as the title ...
At August 6, 2008, Jason wrote:
I thought that Hal's graying hair was spawned in Ganthet's Tale. Didn't it get whiter after he got hit with ...
At August 6, 2008, Nessor Sille wrote:
Scarlet Witch suddenly not remembering she had children that were negated (even though a couple of writers earlier she very ...
At August 6, 2008, Greystoke wrote:
I've always had a perverse fondness for Roy Thomas's retcon of the Black Condor's origin in Secret Origins #21. Sophisticated ...
At August 6, 2008, M Bloom wrote:
Scott Rowland: I just pulled out JLA 219 and 220, the issues where the Canary retcon happened. Looks like we're ...
At August 6, 2008, Matter-Eater Lad wrote:
It says something about how dismal the state of DC Comics is that Johns didn't bother to undo the murder ...
At August 6, 2008, David M wrote:
Similar to what was done with explaining away every other Toyman, Geoff Johns is now claiming in Action Comics that ...
At August 6, 2008, Apodaca wrote:
The Xorn mess strikes me as far more ridiculous than any of the others, and they're still pushing hard on ...
At August 6, 2008, Ken S. wrote:
I think the Xorn/Magneto one gets super special status because of how quickly it happened. Morrison's seat wasn't even ...
At August 6, 2008, Dizzy D wrote:
Tessa being the first X-Man.. I don't think anything was done with that, luckily enough, but it does take balls ...
At August 6, 2008, Jack Norris wrote:
Another one from Avengers Forever: "The Vision was too based on the original Human Torch, Byrne doesn't know what he's ...
At August 6, 2008, Dan K wrote:
Nightcrawler being half demon. Lame

Some bold retcons which are actually good:

Alan Moore's Marvelman

Alan Moore's Swamp Thing

Alan Moore's Supreme

The Sentry was ...
At August 6, 2008, Rhod wrote:
I wasn't around at the time, but what was the reaction to " Captain America actually got frozen in ice ...
At August 6, 2008, RD Francis wrote:
Roy Thomas has pulled off dozens of retcons in his career. I kind of liked his retconning away most ...
At August 6, 2008, buttler wrote:
The whole idea of shared-universe continuity was just beginning to be created at around the time Cap was unfrozen, so ...
At August 6, 2008, jccalhoun wrote:
I would say the whole, "No Guy Gardner isn't an alien with weird powers but is human!" thing but no ...
At August 6, 2008, Michael wrote:
One of the ballsiest I've seen, and most successful, is Ed Brubaker's "No, Bucky isn't really dead."
At August 6, 2008, Loren wrote:
John Byrne's "World of Smallville" still has my all-time most heinous retcon. In a Millennium crossover, Byrne explained that ...
At August 6, 2008, Eric wrote:
Specific Superboy-Punch side effects:
*I think one of his punches caused all of the Doom Patrol's history to be reset to ...
At August 6, 2008, Thok wrote:
The thing about the Toyman retcon is that it also implies that Toyman is a very unreliable narrator. Which ...
At August 6, 2008, Chris wrote:
Johnny Blaze's Ghost Rider actually being an angel instead of a demon was really, really bad, too.
At August 6, 2008, DanLarkin wrote:
Magma's Nova Romani village was really a bunch of tourists under Selene's influence. Or maybe it wasn't.

Of course, ...
At August 6, 2008, Sijo wrote:
To me, the ultimate unnecessary retcon of all times was: changing history in Crisis on Infinite Earths so the DC ...
At August 6, 2008, dhole wrote:
-The Beyonder is revealed in New Avengers: Illuminati to have been...an Inhuman? I'm not even sure what was being suggested ...
At August 6, 2008, Andy wrote:
I'm surprised no one's mentioned what I would consider to be the Grand Champion of this category: The original ...
At August 6, 2008, Brian Cronin wrote:
I dunno, Andy, I think a lot of Johns' retcons are the same thing as what you describe of Byrne's ...
At August 6, 2008, Andy wrote:
I swear I started that before Sijo posted. So yeah, I'm with him on that point. :)
At August 6, 2008, Andy wrote:
Hmm, well, I'll cop to not following creators public personas as much as I used to. I'll confess, I ...
At August 6, 2008, JKline wrote:
I'm glad Thok pointed that out about the Toyman story. That story is more ambiguous than Brian gives it ...
At August 6, 2008, stephen cade wrote:
How about all the Hawkman retcons?
At August 6, 2008, yo go re wrote:
I would say the whole, â€œNo Guy Gardner isnâ€™t an alien with weird powers but is human!â€ thing but no ...
At August 6, 2008, Thok wrote:
How about all the Hawkman retcons?

Including the really dumb "bold" one this week. (Given that and Starlin's interpretation of ...
At August 6, 2008, Jacob T. Levy wrote:
If it's really "Wow, did they really just try to explain away X with Y?" then X has to ...
At August 6, 2008, Andrew Collins wrote:
I've never read the old Golden Age Sandman stories, but did he have the dreams that plagued him like they ...
At August 6, 2008, Eric Grant wrote:
Oh, how about Giffen's recent Ambush Bug-inspired retcon explanation for Identity Crisis? That one sort of explained some major head ...
At August 6, 2008, Charles wrote:
SPeaking of Byrne, I'm surprised no one mentioned Spider-Man: Chapter One
At August 6, 2008, FunkyGreenJerusalem wrote:
- Doom-bots. Just the fact they are out there under-mines any Doom story.

- Xorn not being Magneto. Followed by 'No ...
At August 6, 2008, Dave Lane wrote:
When Wonder Woman got the post (original) Crisis reboot, she was retconned into being a newcomer to the already ...
At August 6, 2008, Michael wrote:
*forehead slap* Swamp Thing isn't Alec Holland, just some swamp muck that thinks it's Alec Holland.
At August 6, 2008, McK wrote:
Iâ€™m glad Thok pointed that out about the Toyman story. That story is more ambiguous than Brian gives it credit ...
At August 6, 2008, Eric Grant wrote:
I know Identity Crisis was intended as a joke. But I thought Giffen's AB kind of legitimized it.
At August 6, 2008, Mike Bazemore wrote:
Would Jack Knight meeting Jor-El and telling him about Earth count as a retcon? If so, it was a ...
At August 6, 2008, kushiro wrote:
Ultra Boy was not dumb as a post but actually a genius who ACTED dumb, all while manipulating Glorith and ...
At August 6, 2008, wwk5d wrote:
Wow...so many bad, bad retcons here. I'd like to see Brian make 2 lists, one with the best retcons, one ...
At August 6, 2008, Matt Bird wrote:
Yeah, the whole "Johnny's Alicia was really a skrull" has to be the most douche-baggy ret-con, doesn't it? Especially ...
At August 6, 2008, Black Manta wrote:
I'm glad she's back but Spoiler's death and return was lame.
At August 6, 2008, Dan wrote:
They screw around too much with the Jor-El era Krypton, the Starman bit reminded me of that. Just this past ...
At August 6, 2008, ZZZ wrote:
Nightcralwer never really wanted to be a priest - he was being manipulated in a plan to make him pope ...
At August 6, 2008, John Trumbull wrote:
Boldest? Here's my 5:

1) Swamp Thing was never Alec Holland, he's just a bunch of plant matter that THINKS ...
At August 7, 2008, Frank Rook wrote:
The first half of Mulholland Drive, the part that was a pilot for a TV series, actually isn't real, according ...
At August 7, 2008, Fran wrote:
Do the dreams count?

- She-Hulk dreaming all non-Byrne issues.
- The kid of ClanDestine dreaming all non-Davis issues.
- Hulk dreaming (or ...
At August 7, 2008, Fran wrote:
Avengers Forever retcons can be summarized as "Everything Steve Englehart established is good, and every retcon made over his work ...
At August 7, 2008, JG wrote:
All of the various retcons involving the origins of Magma of the New Mutants, while not as ballsy as say, ...
At August 7, 2008, Fran wrote:
- AngelÂ´s blood has healing properties.
- Wolverine and every wolf-dog-cat-themed-super-being in Marvel Universe are evolved wolves
- Wolverine has always had ...
At August 7, 2008, Jack Norris wrote:
"Avengers Forever retcons can be summarized as 'Everything Steve Englehart established is good, and every retcon made over his work ...
At August 7, 2008, FunkyGreenJerusalem wrote:
The first half of Mulholland Drive, the part that was a pilot for a TV series, actually isnâ€™t real, according ...
At August 7, 2008, Suzene wrote:
Jean Grey never really ate a solar system (or wore a black leather bustier, sorry Cyke).

Northstar's not a gay mutant ...
At August 7, 2008, Ganky wrote:
Wolverine was much more interesting before he had an origin or two and is now a hundred years old and ...
At August 7, 2008, Bernard the Poet wrote:
The best ever comic ret-con was that Baron Zemo killed Bucky in 1944 and Captain America was thrown into suspended ...
At August 7, 2008, Blackjak wrote:
Bold:
The Chief orchestrating the Doom Patrol origins

Abhorrent:
The Byrne Doom Patrol reboot... that in turn had to be SuperBoy ...
At August 7, 2008, wwk5d wrote:
"Bold: Magneto is a drug-addict who infiltrated the X-men just by wearing a helmet and calling himself Xornâ€¦"

I'm not sure ...
At August 7, 2008, Brian Cronin wrote:
Explaining the Tessa retcon leads to some of the most awesome BS ever, when people do, like, a Handbook entry ...
At August 7, 2008, Blackjak wrote:
wwk5d: Sorry, yeah, about the Magento/Xorn thing... What I meant was I thought Morrison's re-vamp of Magneto and addicting ...
At August 7, 2008, wwk5d wrote:
The sad thing is, if they wanted to ret-con the Magento/Xorn thing, they could have done it in a much ...
At August 7, 2008, Splint Chesthair wrote:
Not to sound like a knee-jerk Geoff Johns fanboy, but to me there's a difference between his "I think this ...
At August 7, 2008, Brian Cronin wrote:
I'll take your word for it, Splint, but in either event, I don't think that really matters much to the ...
At August 7, 2008, Scott Rowland wrote:
I had forgotten the Lockjaw thing. Byrne making the character a cousin of the Royal family that they just ...
At August 7, 2008, Blackjak wrote:
Maybe Mr Byrne just really loves the costumes!?!?
At August 7, 2008, John Seavey wrote:
Two of the above weren't actually retcons:

1) Peter David didn't "retcon" that the Hulk escaped the Gamma Bomb blast by ...
At August 7, 2008, Teebore wrote:
The Tessa retcon still rubs me raw. And it wasn't even done in the service of explaining away something. Claremont ...
At August 7, 2008, Teebore wrote:
Oh, and yes, Professor X back in the 60s was creepy, and has always been kind of a dick. See ...
At August 7, 2008, Scott Rowland wrote:
I think in the end, it all comes down to what you do with the characters after the retcon is ...
At August 7, 2008, Andy wrote:
Oh, yeah, to quickly clarify, I wasn't meaning to say that Johns is pure of heart and Byrne was a ...
At August 7, 2008, Brian Cronin wrote:
Gotcha, Andy.

Thanks for clarifying!
At August 7, 2008, Splint Chesthair wrote:
Another Ben Grimm-related retcon that did a lot of good for the character - his being Jewish. It was something ...
At August 7, 2008, Mike Loughlin wrote:
How about the most recent Handbook to the Marvel Universe series? Rawhide Kid wasn't really gay, he just acted oddly ...
At August 7, 2008, John Seavey wrote:
I'm not really sure whether the "Ben Grimm is Jewish" character decision counts as a retcon, because Kirby had stated ...
At August 7, 2008, Jacob T. Levy wrote:
Man, there seem to have been a lot of crappy X-Men retcons in books I didn't read. Super-evolved wolves? ...
At August 7, 2008, yo go re wrote:
I love the character of Guy Gardner, and I think turning him into a Vuldarian in the first place was ...
At August 7, 2008, ZZZ wrote:
Teebore, what made the Legion retcon even worse to me (and is proof that Charles Xavier is a Bad Bad ...
At August 7, 2008, Rob wrote:
The funny thing about the Year One Catwoman is that they could have easily said that she was not a ...
At August 8, 2008, FunkyGreenJerusalem wrote:
James Robinsonâ€™s Shade.

Another bold Robinson one would have to be the affair between Starman and Black Canary (which also made ...
At August 8, 2008, Carl wrote:
Hippolyta's time travel served two purposes. First and foremost, it allowed Diana to remain the first Wonder Woman; at ...
At August 8, 2008, Blackjak wrote:
Does L.E.G.I.O.N. count as a retcon?

If so, that puts it right up there... Bold, clear (and slightly more obscure) links ...
At August 8, 2008, Mr. Beefhead wrote:
Sitting here thinking about Cap retcons:

1. The cool retcon of bringing Steve Rogers back in Avengers #4 necessitated a later ...
At August 8, 2008, John Trumbull wrote:
Regarding the Legion, I kind of like the retcon that Johns implied in his recent Action Comics arc: young Clark ...
At August 8, 2008, joecab wrote:
I liked that recent Toyman one, because making his this monster that preyed on kids was just such an awful, ...
At August 14, 2008, Dave Blanchard wrote:
Speaking of the Moore Swamp Thing, I don't think Moore -- or anybody else -- ever got around to explaining ...